COMMISSION WORKSHOP - Jul 07, 2026

July 7, 2026 City Commission Workshop, also the birthday of the Vice Mayor of the great city of Dunedin, Rob Walker. Shall we just, uh, happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday dear Rob, happy birthday to you. All right. Resoundingly beautiful. For further embarrassment, you know, we'll... Well, that's all right. Thank you. Happy birthday. We are glad you're here on your birthday. Okay, uh, we're going to call the meeting to order, and first we're going to go to Noah, who will do the Pledge of Allegiance for us. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay, we have just one presentation today, but it's a very important one, designation of July as Parks and Recreation Month, and I'm going to turn to Commissioner Tom DeGuard to read and present the proclamation. Thank you, Mayor. If I'm not mistaken, I think we have a very large number of parks and rec people here. I'm fearful that if you all come forward, there are going to be nothing but empty seats out there. So I'm going to allow whoever you've selected. Do you all want to come forward? If you all want to come forward, come on down. Come on. Sure, why not? No? Okay. Shy. I'll do the proclamation and present it, then I'll allow for comments. Is that okay? All right. Whereas Parks and Recreation is an integral part of communities throughout this country, including the city of Dunedin, and whereas Parks and Recreation promote health, wellness, improving the physical and mental health of people who live near parks, and whereas Parks and Recreation promotes time spent in nature, which positively impacts mental health by increasing cognitive performance and well-being, and alleviating illness such as depression, attention deficit disorders, and Alzheimer's, and whereas Parks and Recreation encourages physical activities by providing space for popular sports, hiking trails, swimming pools, and many other activities designed to promote active lifestyles, and whereas Parks and Recreation is a leading provider of healthy meals, nutrition services, and education, and whereas Parks and Recreation programming and education activities such as out-of-school time programming, youth sports, and environmental education are critical to childhood development, and whereas Parks and Recreation increases a community's economic prosperity through increased property values, expansion of local tax base, increased tourism, the attraction and retention of businesses, and crime reduction, and whereas Parks and Recreation is fundamental to the environmental well-being of our community, and whereas Parks and Recreation is essential and adaptable infrastructure that makes our communities resilient in the face of natural disasters and climate change, and whereas Parks and Natural Recreation areas ensure the ecological beauty of our community and provide a place for children and adults to connect with nature, and recreate outdoors, whereas the U.S. House of Representatives has designated July as Parks and Recreation Month, and whereas Dunedin recognizes the benefits derived from parks and recreation resources. Now, therefore, I, Tom Dugard, by virtue of the authority vested in me from the Mayor of the City of Dunedin, Florida, and on behalf of the entire City Commission, do hereby proclaim the month of July 2026 as Parks and Recreation Month in Dunedin, and encourage everyone to celebrate the transformative power of parks and recreation. Thank you. Good morning, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commission, and members of the public, and our valued Parks and Recreation team behind me. July is nationally recognized as Parks and Recreation Month, and it's an initiative facilitated by the National Recreation and Park Association, and it's done so since 1985. This year's theme is the power of, and it's recognizing and celebrating the power of parks and recreation and the people who make it all possible. The power of connecting and community, the parks, the marina, the golf course, and all of our programs and events are where Dunedin residents gather, celebrate, and build relationships across generations. The power of play, from youth sports and camps to activities for seniors or families to enjoy their free time. Play fuels creativity, fuels health, and lifelong learning for residents of all ages. The power of nature, our waterfront, our trails, and conservation spaces, including the hammock and Gladys Douglas Preserve. And the variety of park spaces give every resident access and opportunity to the restorative benefits of the outdoors. And our team, none of this is possible without a professional, well-trained, qualified Parks and Recreation team. And behind every clean, safe, welcoming park, or successful program and event is the Parks and Recreation professionals, many of which are behind us. Many of our recreation staff couldn't be here today due to summer camps that are full-on right now. So I do want to recognize those that aren't here with us. But our recreation, parks, golf, and marina teams deliver all of the experiences that I mention every day. Friday, July 17th is Parks and Recreation Professionals Day. I want to take a moment to thank the full-time, part-time, and seasonal staff and volunteers that keep this system running. I invite residents to celebrate Parks and Recreation Month all of July and throughout the year by getting out, using your parks, signing up for a program, going to an event, and spend time outdoors on the waterfront. I want to thank the commission for recognizing Parks and Recreation Month. I want to thank our staff again, all of which out here and who couldn't be here with us, and appreciate the time to be recognized. Want a picture? Yeah. Everybody's got something else. Sorry. Come on up, guys. Oh, they came up for you. What a good-looking team. How are you? Good. Thank you. I need people to get in on the side. Usually, we would move, but we don't need to, because they're standing up. Yeah. Okay, have a seat for a minute, everybody, and I'm going to give the commission a chance to comment on our amazing Parks and Recreation group. I'm going to start with the Vice Mayor. Thank you, Mayor. You know, Tony had said that, you know, this may be Parks and Rec Month, but this is, Parks and Rec should be celebrated 365 days a year because of what you guys do. And, you know, you are the heart and soul of this community, and without you and without what you do, I don't, it would be hard-pressed to believe that we would enjoy the quality of life that we do here now. So, anyway, I just want to thank you to the entire Parks and Rec team, and you guys are just amazing. Thank you. Commissioner Sandberg. Well, this is probably the easiest speech to give, but 500-plus acres of parks, 40-some-odd parks, 500 acres of green space. I know I'm close on some of that, but, you know, I know most of you. I see you downtown. I know the events you take care of, the ball fields. I'm a regular at the community center when I see my friend Bobby Gallagher back there. I was absent this morning, but yeah. No, I just want to say thanks to all of you for what you do. And I think someone, when I first got elected, said, never forget that it starts with parks. And I think that person was right. So, thank you to each and every one of you. Mr. Gall. Thank you, Mayor. There's no doubt that Parks and Rec holds a personal and special place in my heart. But just real quickly, just in general, to get an understanding of what Dunedin would be without our parks, our green space, our staff, our departments. It certainly would not be the same. And we gain so much through our green space and our parks. So thank all of you for what you do every day. Thank you. Mr. Dugard. Thank you, Mayor. I will make this a little bit more personal. I selected my home based on location to parks when I was buying a place here in Dunedin. I was very proud of the fact that I was right next door to Hammock Park, the trail, the water, and all of that. And then a good friend of mine at the Rotary Club said, you really can't get anywhere in Dunedin without being next to a park almost. We have the highest density of parks for any city in the county. I mean, we just have great parks. And our citizens every day tell us how important it is to them. All you got to do is threaten a park and you'll have 500 people on your doorstep just in minutes. You guys do great work. You keep this a healthy system and you keep our citizens healthy as well. Thank you very much. Before I go, I think the city manager wanted to say something. I'd love to. First of all, I want it to be noted that I was at the community center this morning. He was there yesterday. I wasn't. But anyway. And just as Commissioner Dugard said, actually parks and recreation is an economic development driver. The open space and the facilities attract residents to our city and business owners to our city. And I know that it's one of the things that attracted me to the city when I first came to have a look about, in regards to the city manager position, went by the Hale Center, went by the community center, the DFAC, which is owned by the city and maintained by the city. And some of the open spaces are just pristine. And I remember during Juneteenth, our inaugural year of Juneteenth, when we did our community and service day, I chose picking up garbage at Highlander Park and I couldn't find any because it was so well-maintained. I had to look and look and look for whatever garbage I could find. So I too am grateful from the administration's perspective for all the hard work, recreation as well. I know that they can't be here. They're working right now. But parks maintenance and park administration, it truly is a gem in the city. It is something to be protected and cherished, most certainly our level of service for parks and recreation. I'm grateful. And also the fact that you are in first place in the employee golf league is something that you can really celebrate and that we're really striving to overcome at this point. But anyway, thank you very much, all of you. I'm very grateful for everything that you do. So I get the last word. You know, there's no doubt about it that when you look at this city, it would be a hollow place without parks and recreation. Think of it, hollowed of our parks, hollowed of our, you know, special events, hollowed of our programs for all ages that creates that intergenerational feel. I started out my career for a few years in juvenile court. And, you know, we can never stop realizing there's a connection there. If we don't give our kids things to do, they'll find other things to do. And they don't always, won't always be as good. And they won't always learn the same good lessons of life to grow up and be good, responsible citizens. So what you all do out there is multifaceted. And sometimes people say, oh, wrecking parks, well, you know, that's just some fun and throwing balls around. But we all know it's a profession. It's way deeper than that. You're changing lives. And it's a very important thing. And it actually does create economic vitality and just overall, overall vitality in our city. There's absolutely no doubt in the world that that's why a lot of people come and live here. That's why they want to stay here. That's why they want to be a part of here. That's why we have mayors of other cities coming to our golf cart parade in our hometown USA, because we're a special place. And you guys make it special. You put the special in our city. So thank you to all of you. Really appreciate it. Okay, we're going to go on to citizen input. And, you know, you don't have to stay for the rest of the week, unless you want to. So, okay. Oh, maybe you want to. Okay. Hey, that's up to you guys. Okay. I'm going to go to citizen input. Uh, does anyone in the audience wish to come and speak on a topic that is not on the agenda? You should come up to the microphone. Okay. Come forward. Just give your name, uh, address, and you have three minutes. Morning. Thank you for your time. Thomas Devlin, 1885 San Mateo Drive. And, um, Hammock Park's my backyard. So I love parks and recreation. It's a great park. It's always clean. And they've really had their, um, struggles after the hurricane. And it really, you know, is coming up and looking nice. So thank them for the park. And, um, also with the park is, um, I have, that's why my inputs here is for, um, we go to Sterling, um, golf range. I'm an avid golfer. I'm on the list to become a member at the, um, Dunedin Golf Club. And the balls are lacking there. Um, a lot of them don't even have dimples. So when you hit a ball, they just stray, you know, it's not a golf ball anymore. And if you get like a medium buckets, like 70 balls, if you get, um, you get a bucket, you're only getting like 20 balls that actually look good in white. So I want to see if we can do something about getting, you know, more golf balls, you know, needed there, because if not, you have to drive the Chi-Chi's. And then I kind of, you know, I can't take my golf cart to Chi-Chi's. So I got to pack up the car, go all the way up there. And, um, yeah, the balls are more expensive there, but of course, but they're all nice. You know, you get all nice balls there. So I just wanted to see if we can look at, you know, getting more golf balls to the Sterling Golf Range. And I also wanted to see on a second note is, um, if we can actually get a, um, the lights are on at nighttime there. So I want to see if we can hit balls at night and get an automatic ball dispenser there. So you don't want to take jobs from people there that are given balls away. But if you have an automatic ball dispenser, you can hit balls there. And it's a lot cooler there because, you know, if you go try to hit golf balls there in the afternoon, it's, you know, it's sweltering and, um, it'd be nice to be able to hit it when it gets a little darker till 11 o'clock or something like that. So I just wanted to put that forward to see if we can get any of those things done. That's all I have to say. Awesome. Thank you. Appreciate that. So that's why my ball keeps on going the wrong way. Nothing at all to do with the swing. That's right. Yeah. Nothing whatsoever. I mean, I don't think I could offer an intelligent statement about those comments, even though I respect because I don't know. Um, but somebody could and, uh, somebody obviously needs to. Yeah. We'll actually have a look into those two requests, Mayor. Okay. Awesome. So that's good. Thank you for bringing this. Thank you. Okay. Anyone else in the audience wish to come forward and speak on an item that is not on the agenda? Okay. Seeing no one, uh, we'll close citizen input and we will go to the first workshop item, which is Isaiah Jeffess Weaver Park Living Shoreline Proposed Designs. And the staff, I will turn to the staff leading off with, I guess, Natalie, uh, to take us into that. Good morning, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commissioner, City Manager, Natalie Gass, Sustainability Program Manager for the City of Dunedin. Can you see the slides on your screen? Yes. Okay. They're just pulling up right now. Wonderful. So what a great segue to talk about our, uh, living shoreline at Weaver Park, given its Parks and Recreation Month. And we're going to be here talking about the shoreline improvements, the designs, and the work that we've been, uh, conducting up until this point and really understand your direction and consensus feedback. So Weaver Park, um, has shoreline erosion. And this is the entire intent of this project is to, uh, strategize to really understand how can we improve the shoreline in the best way possible for this park. A quick project summary, and then I will get into the overview of today's meeting. So this is at Weaver Park. It is 728 linear feet of shoreline that is eroding and unstable. The solution here is going to be utilizing a nature-based solution to really replace the crumbling riprap shoreline and incorporate new riprap, mangroves, native upland planting, oyster recruitments, and explore ADA kayak launch for additional public access. CPH Consulting, who I will introduce in just a moment, is our design and permitting consultant working with us on this project. And while I am the project manager, we have a lot of departments and staff behind this project. So we have our parks and recreation team, our public works team, and then utilities and engineering. And of course, our strategy and sustainability division out of the city manager's office. We will do brief introductions. We have Amanda and Gabriella joining us via Zoom today, and I will introduce them in a moment. I'll then walk us through the background purpose and scope of the project, and then turn it over to CPH. And they will take us through the project design and the phased approach that we have for the shoreline. I'll share some of the public input and support that we've been receiving. And then we'll go through the expenses and funding for the project. I'm going to turn it over to Amanda to make sure we can hear her correctly and Gabriella, and give them a chance to introduce themselves. Hi, everyone. My name is Amanda Martin. First, thank you so much for accommodating us to join remotely. We greatly appreciate that. I'm stationed in Miami, Florida. And I had visited Dunedin not too long ago for the public input meeting my first time there. It's a beautiful city, beautiful parks. I can agree with the proclamation, you know, stated earlier. And I'll turn this over to Gabriella. Hello, City of Dunedin. My name is Gabriella, lead environmental scientist. I'm very excited to work on this project. And thank you for having us. We also have Kyle Bechtelheimer. Unfortunately, he was not able to join, but he is the engineer of record. And I'm working alongside him in the design and permitting for this project. But just wanted to mention that, and as well as highlight some projects that we have completed that are of similarity with what we would be proposing at the Weaver Park shoreline improvements. We provided two images here just to show some components that we would likely incorporate into Weaver Park. So the first being in Isla Morada in the Keys of Florida. As you can see here, we provided both engineering and architectural services to propose a new pavilion, as you can see in the background, and an ADA-compliant kayak launch, of which we would like to explore for our current project with Dunedin. And secondly, we have a breakwater, of which we installed within Founders Park, within Isla Morada as well, of which incorporated both riprap revetment, mangrove plantings, and providing a sidewalk access for visitors within that park as well. Wonderful. Thank you. So to provide some background and the scope of this project, staff was tasked to really get an understanding of the current status of our shoreline. Through multiple site assessments, staff did confirm that there is continued erosion, and the shoreline is unstable. We were then tasked to conduct an investigation and really understand what would be the best route forward to stabilize the shoreline. Would that be installing a seawall or a living shoreline or a combination of both? During the investigation, we looked at the pros, cons, and benefits of each solution, a seawall being that more rigid structure that provides direct protection from erosion and flooding, but it can worsen erosion and habitat in adjacent areas. This is considered a form of traditional or gray infrastructure, whereas living shorelines use natural solutions and materials, they provide erosion control, but also they're going to be there to enhance the habitat, increase resiliency over time, and improve water quality. They are considered forms of green infrastructure or nature-based solutions. An additional item that we looked at, which I find the most fascinating, in how these different approaches are opposite is that a seawall is strongest on the day of installation, but over time will weaken due to wave attenuation, weather conditions, and other environmental conditions. A living shoreline, on the other hand, is weakest on the day of installation, but once you get past that point where you're able to allow the mangroves, seagrasses, other native plants, and oysters to recruit and grow and expand, it strengthens over time. You have root systems that get deeper, oyster recruitment that continues to expand along your coastline, and so you have a stronger, more resilient shoreline that expands over time versus the opposite. So we're already leaning, staff was already leaning in the direction of pursuing the living shoreline for this project as it has great benefits, long-term resiliency, and there are reduced costs compared to traditional seawalls. We were then informed by Pinellas County Water Navigation that the project site is not eligible for a seawall, and this is per Pinellas County Code, because the shoreline is longer than 100 feet in length, and it doesn't have two existing seawalls on either side to connect to. We were able to take, because of that decision, take the budget that would have been used to conduct a more formal investigation and utilize it to move forward with CPH to have them design the shoreline improvements and create the engineering and construction documents and support the permitting phase. I do want to mention that this project also supports our larger initiatives, including the vulnerability assessment and adaption plan. Living shorelines are one of the recommended strategies out of that plan, and we're already moving forward with this one at Weaver Park. The Living Shoreline also is a great support for our Florida Gulf Coast Hope Spot, which is all about ocean conservation, education, and awareness, and really trying to understand how what we do on the land impacts the water and vice versa. So having a shoreline and really showing where these two pieces meet together, we can show how natural systems can be a great solution for both the built and natural environment. And I do want to clarify that the pier is not included in the scope of the Living Shoreline project. This is a separate project that has a separate fund, timeline, and permitting schedule. We are aware of the pier project improvements. We have our improvements for the Living Shoreline. And just being cognizant that those two items are happening at the same time. We're collaborating and understanding what's happening on each side, but they are not technically a combined project. So to do the work of designing the Living Shoreline project, we selected CPH Consulting, which is one of the city's general engineering consultants. And this was selected by our staff and recommended to City Commission. City Commission, you approved this back at the October 2025 meeting. And the scope of work included is really six tasks, of which we are in task three, which is developing that design for the shoreline. I am now going to turn it over to CPH and Amanda to walk us through some of the designs that we have and really understand the formal assessment they've done, the goals for this project. But she'll walk us through the designs and the engineering details. Great. Thank you, Natalie. So just to echo Natalie's description of the assessment that the city has made for the shoreline, our team has conducted an assessment as well at the onset of this project. And we've identified several issues with the shoreline and contributing to its deterioration. Over time, we've seen a loss of material creating voids to allow wave energy to further erode the shoreline. So it's no longer eroding the seawall itself. It's eroding the earth beneath it due to the displacement of this rock. There are also several localized washout areas, as you can see in the image to the left, likely caused by the continuous wave action and overtopping during the storm events that this coast of Florida is susceptible to. In addition to this, many of the existing armor stones have become displaced and are undersized for the conditions they are experiencing, reducing the shoreline stability and leaving it more vulnerable to further erosion. Within our next slide here, our design mainly focuses on three main goals. The first being restoring the shoreline stability through erosion protection. The second, we would be incorporating more of that green living shoreline components, further enhancing resilience to the shoreline. And the last one would be to incorporate recreational use and access to the public. Together, these improvements will help protect the shoreline for many years to come. With these goals in mind, let's get into the proposed components of this project and our overall project design. The team here at CPH has worked diligently with Natalie and her team at the city to make the project more manageable from both a construction and funding perspective. So we've developed a phased implementation approach. Phase one focuses on the highest priority at hand right now, which is, as I mentioned, to stabilize this shoreline. This will include a continuous riprap preventment that will extend waterward to provide long-term erosion for this park. And where feasible, we are entertaining the idea of maybe keeping the seawall as is, maybe likely remove the loose and displaced rock. That would help with construction costs and the not needing to demolish this seawall, rather just propose this revetment on top of. The second phase builds on that foundation by incorporating the living shoreline elements for both planting mangroves at the toe of the revetment, as well as planting native vegetation landward within the park. The mangroves are a sustainable and resilient way of which can attenuate wave energy. With the upland native vegetation landward, this will help with any overtopping that the park may experience, avoids the erosion to the actual land within the park as well. So all three of these components will 100% increase the resilience and promote natural habitat development at the same time. Phase three incorporates more so the public access and usability within this park by incorporating a new ADA compliant floating launch, sorry, floating kayak launch within the park on the north side, similar to a project that I mentioned before that we are experienced in doing, as well as making sure that the parking spaces within this park are ADA compliant as well. Are you able to see the slides that we have presented? Okay, because they're not showing up here. I've been looking at the slides through my email because I haven't been able to see them. Okay. Yeah, I'll see if we can get someone to help us with that. Sorry, Natalie, is everybody able to see it in person though? Yeah, they're up now. Okay, perfect. Should I continue? Yes, thank you. Okay, all right, sounds good. So our team, along with proposing the conceptual design plans, we have created these renderings specifically for the team at the city, but also for our use in the public input meeting that we had conducted a few weeks back. So with these rendering, it gives, you know, a visual conception of what we would likely be proposing. So within this first rendering, it's nothing has been incorporated. This is how it is at the moment within the park. As we can see, the shoreline has a sea wall hugging the shoreline for the entirety of the park, of which, as we mentioned, has been deteriorated. Our first phase in the next slide shows the implementation of this riprap. And it's an obvious change from what's currently at the park with this riprap or ventment being extended waterward, providing further protection within this park. Approximately 11 feet is what we're expecting to design for this project. And this will help, as I mentioned, reduce erosion, as well as providing resiliency to the wave action, especially during times of hurricane season and just the storms that this area is experiencing. We have shown our probable construction costs here. We'll likely get into it in further detail in the next couple of slides. But we have provided the construction costs for each of these phases in a range of 2027 to 2030. It's all dependent on when the city would want to pursue the implementation of each phasing. As we all know, inflation and just general costs for construction and material will likely increase every year that we do wait. So we took that into account within this range. Okay, with phase two, this rendering shows the collaborative improvements for both phase one and phase two. As we can see, we have the oyster domes or oyster reefs within the waterway of this park. These will likely be implemented within the intertidal zone of this area. So not too shallow and not too deep as well. We have the mangroves being planted within the toe of the revetment. This also allows for the mangroves to grow within their height and not have to obstruct the views within the park. We do know that that was a concern with the public when we proposed this idea to them. Which we'll likely get into within more detail. But with allowing to propose these mangroves at the toe of the revetment rather than the upland area, they would not obstruct the views of this beautiful park. Along with the revetment, we would have the upland vegetation upward of this park. And we have proposed many species of which are native to Dunedin, much of which is actually planted in city halls. So we would like to propose these plantings along the entire shoreline as well. Helps with the resilience and specifically for overtopping within this park, as I had mentioned. But one thing I did want to highlight, as Natalie had mentioned, gray infrastructure, which we would be proposing within phase one with the riprap revetment, it allows for immediate protection against erosion and wave energy. Once the shoreline is stabilized is when we can bring in phase two and provide the components for green living. It gives both the mangroves, the oyster domes, and the upland planting time to root and time for survival with the riprap providing a little bit more protection for not only the shoreline, but for those components that we would be incorporating into phase two. And then phase three, along with phase one and phase two already being implemented within this park, we would be providing and proposing an ADA compliant floating kayak launch. Again, this is just a rendering. This is not exactly how this would be situated. We definitely need to review the water lines, how we would be constructing this. But this is the approximate area in which we would likely propose this kayak launch. It just fits perfectly with the alignment of the parking lot. You know, we don't want people dragging their kayaks from one end of the park to the next. So this, for the most part, this area is likely where this kayak launch would be proposed if we move forward with this phase. And we do show a specific section of which we would likely have to pave this parking lot just for ADA compliance and requirements. In addition to the physical improvements that we would be making to this park, we have entertained the idea of incorporating an educational component to this project. So as part of phase one and likely part of phase two, we would propose installing interpretive signage that highlights the purpose and benefits of the living shoreline, as well as showcasing Dunedin's designation as a Florida Gulf Coast hotspot, as well as recognizing the history and contributions of the renowned naturalist Dr. Blatchley, of which we will be proposing this signage to the south of the park within the building area. This just helps create a more engaging experience for visitors while promoting both environmental awareness and appreciation for the site's ecological and historical significance. These next couple slides just showcase our preliminary conceptual drawings that we have been proposing to the city's team. This first drawing, we incorporate both phase one and phase two. This is pretty much our basis of how our design will look like. We have proposed and conducted survey within this area that would be incorporated into our design as well. We will highlight both the seagrass results that Gabriella will get into as well and just incorporating both the existing conditions as well as the proposed improvements as well as many cross sections, as you can see in the next slide. This will just showcase the improvements made in a sectional view for this shoreline. So as I mentioned before, our riprap preventment is proposed to be about 11 feet waterward. It's no longer going to hug the shoreline as it is currently. The mangroves will be hugging the toe of this revetment in specific areas, again, not to obstruct water views from the park, as well as the upland vegetation between the existing walking path and the riprap revetment. We will not be touching the walking path at this moment or within this project. We are just providing improvements to the shoreline within Phase 1 and 2. This is our second conceptual. As you can see, it's slightly different from what we had in our rendering, specifically with the oyster domes. This is all dependent during our coordination with the permitting agencies. We'll get into this in a little bit more detail in terms of the oyster dome specifically, but the alignment, the location, the sizing, all is dependent on our, as I mentioned, coordination with Army Corps and the requirements for proposing this work within this specific area, considering the site's conditions and the results from our environmental assessment. But as you can see, we do incorporate the kayak launch to the north side. We will not be proposing many mangroves or oyster domes within that area. It is something the public had mentioned as a concern, you know, just to keep that area clear for safety within visitors that will be using that area for kayaking. And then I will pass this on to Gabriela, who will talk about the recent seagrass study. Hello, everyone. I was the scientist that conducted this survey. The benthic survey for the proposed project was conducted on June 2nd, 2026, which falls within the primary seagrass growing season of June 1st through September 30th. Surveys conducted during these summer months provide regulatory agencies with the most representative information regarding seagrass distribution, maximum aerial extent, and species diversity for permitting and impact assessment purposes. The survey results were used to identify aquatic resources and inform project design to avoid and minimize impacts for two aquatic and benthic resources. Conducting the survey during this seagrass growing season provided the most reliable basis for assessing existing benthic conditions and evaluating potential project-related effects. During the June 2nd, 2026, in-water investigation, CPH used grids and transects to locate and map aquatic resources in the study area. CPH personnel conducted the benthic survey using visual in-water reconnaissance and utilized and utilized a grid-based sampling methodology consisting of 25 square foot quadrants with transects spaced at 50 foot intervals within the quadrat area. The quadrat and transect areas were developed to easily record the location of the resources observed during the survey. Now, what you see on the renderings here, portions of the submerged bottom within the survey area were vegetated with shoal grass and manatee grass encompassing about 0.42 acres of the 1.27-acre survey area. These exhibits depict the survey grids with the seven transects, the mean high water line, the mean low water line, the organic debris that we observed and sediment accumulation, the unvegetated bare bottom, the proposed oyster domes, and the extent of the mangrove and seagrass resources. So, the design actually is avoiding all seagrass. The seagrass is actually in the pink patching and the organic debris is in the yellow. Mangroves in green and oyster domes are proposed in black. And as you can see, we are avoiding all seagrass resources with the current design. That's all I have. Thank you. Thank you, Gabriella. So, our next two slides, we pretty much show architectural renderings of how these improvements will look within the park. This was used within our public input meeting as well and was the highlight for some of the residents as they can now visualize this on an eye-level view for all phases to come. Again, the concern for mangroves blocking water views was definitely a main point of, sorry, a main point of, main topic during that time. Sorry. And we will likely place them in areas that will not obstruct these views as well as the city will likely be trimming these mangroves. This is not a difficult task at hand. We'll just likely have to entertain that again when we get into the permitting aspect of this project and seeing what these agencies' requirements are for mangrove trimming and whether permits are applicable in this case. But for the most part, we'll strategically place these mangroves in areas that will not obstruct these beautiful views for the entirety of the shoreline. But it is a very integral part in keeping the shoreline resilient to wave energy. Unfortunately, just the gray infrastructure that we'd be proposing for Phase 1 will, in conjunction with these mangroves will propose a highly resilient shoreline for this project. Our second rendering we show just from the pier itself. This is once the pier improvements have been implicated, this is how it would look from standing within the waterway area. As we can see, we have both the oyster domes, the riprap preventment, the mangroves, and upland vegetation all coexisting with each other. Not only is it a resilient aspect, but it's actually a very aesthetic one at that as well for this beautiful park. Our next slide, in discussing with Natalie on the different options for oyster recruitment, you know, rather than limiting the project to both the traditional manufactured oyster domes, we also explored several alternative oyster recruitment options. These include oyster reef balls, oyster volcanoes, and oyster rag pots. Each of these options vary in costs, sizes, and ease of installation, but all are designed to promote oyster growth, improve habitat, and provide additional wave attenuation. As this project moves forward, these alternatives will be evaluated to determine which solution fits best with the city's budget, their maintenance preferences, and just long-term restoration goals, as well as seeing what the permitting agencies, such as Army Corps, deems as necessary for protection for this specific shoreline. They will likely be able to tell us which of these alternatives we are able to implement, as well as the requirements needed for permitting for each one of these. And I will pass this on to Natalie. Thank you. So I'll share on our public input meeting that we had in March, CPH and the city of Dunedin joined together to host a public meeting, which was well attended, over 30 people, and we were able to showcase some of these renderings and designs, answer questions, and also receive feedback from the public. The public had both support and some concerns. The support was really to incorporate the mangroves and upland plantings. They did say if only one could be selected, they did prefer the mangroves with the also intention that they would be controlled for their growth. So they want to see mangroves, but they don't want to see them take over. There was an idea brought up to sponsor oyster domes and incorporate that into the project as a means of funding the project. The Dunedin Boat Club was highly in support of the kayak launch, saying it provides economic impact to access Caledice and relieves marina parking. And there was additional strong support for the oysters and kayak launch down the road. Some of the concerns shared were to keep either the fence that is currently installed in the park or install no climbing signage for the riprap area. The mangrove height and maintenance to maintain the view shed and control the growth was a common theme brought up. And also not obstructing the views from any ground level upland plantings. There was some concern in just making sure that we're intentional about where the oyster domes are located in regards to the kayak launch, that that would be a safe space to get in and out of the water. And then budgetary constraints and trying to understand that if this project isn't funded now, what are the consequences to the eroding shoreline and future construction costs down the road? This project has been brought before the Stormwater Advisory Committee and the Committee on Environmental Quality and Sustainability, CEQS, which they wrote a letter of support and that was included with the agenda packet. The letter was passed with five votes in favor and one against at their May 26 meeting. And mainly speaking to how the project for the shoreline will further support erosion control at the site and it incorporates an environmental approach to shoreline stabilization and has the opportunity to create partnerships locally and then also provide for public engagement. The project will also be getting in front of the Causeway and Coastal Waterways Committee soon at an upcoming agenda meeting. We have yet to set that date. Tomorrow we will be bringing it forward to the Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council. They have their Resilient Shorelines meeting and so they have a multi-agency review team that will be able to look at everything technically and provide input and feedback. Finally, for support and review, we're going to be bringing this forward to the DRC meeting, Development Review Committee, where we have staff from really the majority of all of our different departments and divisions to take a look at everything, provide feedback, and just see it as a holistic project for the community. So this project has a project page which is really wonderful. Our communications team developed this and we have many project pages for the City of Dunedin's projects and this one allows community members to engage with the project, see the timeline, and it's live so it's updated as we progress through the project and we continue to post information and slides from the presentations. For project funding to date, we have $250,000 budgeted for this project. $150,000 has gone to CPH Consulting for the design and permitting support for this project which leaves us with $100,000 intended to go for a grant to have grant matching funds. We have been diligently working to submit grants. We have not been awarded one for this project yet but we're continuing to apply and hoping to apply for the Resilient Florida grant given that we have an adequate match. I also wanted to bring up the concept of the sponsorships. There are Adopt Mangrove or Adopt a Oyster Dome programs that are seen throughout the community. There is one that the Florida Aquarium has started is called the Mangrove Legacy Project and I have a meeting with them in a few days to talk about what are the options of what is a viable partnership for that and get some more details about if that would be even an option for this project. Another component of this project is community engagement which is a great way to involve the public, educate them, create learning opportunities but also reduce installation costs. Being able to have a build a Oyster Dome day or installation day would allow us to work and collaborate with local partners and utilize the great partnerships that we have here in the Tampa Bay region but also reduce those costs. It is important to note that while reduced costs would be an option with additional community engagement, you do have additional staff workload to manage and incorporate all of those different installation days. I'm going to turn it back over to CPH to walk us through the construction costs for the different phases and then we can compare the costs. Perfect, thank you. So during the time in which we were conceptualizing this project and the various phasings, we narrowed down to phase one, two, and three. During this time we did our due diligence and our research for projects within the same vicinity and a similar construction, specifically bid tabulations from contractors within the area and of recent projects. So these are what these costs are based on. Of course, these are just preliminary costs. Some can come back higher, some can come back lower dependent on the bidding contractors at the time in which this is ready to be implemented. But for phase one specifically, as I mentioned, we would be proposing riprap preventment along the shoreline as well as a select few signage within the walking path of this project. With this, not only would we be constructing the riprap, it would involve obviously the mobilization, demobilization for the project in its entirety, specific insurance and bonds for the contractor, erosion and sediment control, considering that we are proposing this within the waterways and ensuring that we are proposing the right best management practices adhering to all permitting agencies and just city and county standards. As well as maintenance of traffic, we'll likely minimize that as best as we can as well as providing access to the park and safe access of that for the visitors. One of the cost savings that we could entertain or just see if it's possible and feasible within this phase is, as I mentioned, likely keeping the existing shoreline rock seawall as is. Maybe just remove a couple of displaced rock. This will help minimize the cost by not having to do a full demolition of this seawall. We'll likely provide our decision on that as we further into the design and likely conduct a further assessment with our structural team. On top of that, we would, as I mentioned, propose the riprap along the entire shoreline and lastly, our site restoration and cleanup just to ensure everything is restored as it was before or better. We did provide a contingency of 25%, as I mentioned, just a buffer zone for costs that may come back a little higher than we anticipated. But as we can see here, we did provide construction totals for the year of 2027, 28, 29, and 30, dependent on when the city can receive the funding that they are pursuing as well as when they plan to implement this. As we can see, it does increase about 4% every year due to inflation and just general construction costs increasing as time goes on. Our second phase incorporates the same general conditions as we will see for all phases, MOB, DEMOB, insurance, erosion and sedimentation control. But within this phase specifically, we will be proposing the green living shoreline components, mangroves, planting, and the oyster domes. With these three components, the saving cost here is dependent on whether we bring in the volunteers initiative, partnering up with local agencies, and all just depends on what the permitting agencies come back with our requirements for sizing of the oyster domes as well as the placement of them relative to the shoreline as well. Same thing here, we kept the contingency at 25 for each year and still the range of 2027 to 2030 and its associated increase per year. With this project, we're expected for it to be about $490,000. If this was to be implemented in 2027, again, depends on whether grants can be pursued. This phase can likely be constructed in conjunction with phase one, which Natalie will get into shortly, but these costs are associated with the phasing approach that we had talked about and if we were to keep these separate components as separate projects. phase three incorporates, as I mentioned, the same general conditions, but here we would be proposing just the water access component for the project, including the floating kayak launch and just the ADA parking accessibility component as well with its increase in construction per year, dependent on when we would implement this project. Really, it's hard to get any cost savings within this phase of the project. We will definitely explore the different alternatives for the kayak launch and see what is the most cost effective and compatible for the site within the north side area of this park. All right, so what do we... Thank you. When we look at the cost comparison and really trying to understand how can we move this project forward, it could be completed in multiple phases, it can be completed all at once. If you're doing everything all at once, you will save money, but over the long term, it is challenging to have the funds up front to do everything at the same time. When you look at the grant matching requirements, whether that's a 25% grant match requirement or a 50% grant match requirement, I believe Resilient Florida is a 50% match. It is easier to allocate funds for different phases of the projects instead of trying to fund it all at once. So here's just a breakdown of the different options, whether that's three phases, two phases, doing everything at the same time, and then the grant matching is really looking at phase one for both option one and two, and that third option is the cost match for if everything was going to be happening at the same time. And with this is understanding that right now we have $100,000 in the project fund for cost match to go after a grant and at this time it is not sufficient in order for us to move the project forward even while we're exploring grant funding as that's not a sufficient match for the project, whether we phase it or complete it all at once. So the proposed schedule, we're continuing to move forward with the design of development and permitting once we receive your consensus direction, but the implementation is really to be determined until we have an understanding of the project funding and which route we're going to take, whether that's the phased approach or all at once. So I'm going to open it up for questions and our CPH team can help answer any of those questions and technical information if you need it. But we're also going to be requesting feedback from all of you really on the overall concept of the project, addressing any viewshed concerns because that's been a reoccurring topic from the public, and then understanding is there a preference for a phased approach or all at once. And with that direction, would we like to see a contracted turnkey installation or heavily rely on community engagement? And finally, would like to understand your input on the idea of doing a fundraiser or sponsorship with the Adopt-a-Mangrove or Adopt-an-Oyster dome. Thank you. Okay. I'll go to questions, and I'm going to start with Commissioner Gao. Thank you, Mayor. Well done, Natalie. Well done. Thank you. Let me see. You want input and overall concept and design? Good on you. Great job. The ADA parking lot, is that parking lot at this time not ADA compliant? I don't believe so. I believe it's all shell from my understanding. It is? Yeah. And so shell is not, and I'm asking, so I don't know. I don't believe so. I would have to confirm that, but it's been recommended that we would pave the ADA parking spot as well as the pathway to the ADA kayak launch. Okay. And then is that parking lot only accessible for those members who are disabled, for lack of a better term? I'm sorry. So the recommendation would be that there would be maybe one ADA parking location or two. We would have to determine that. This would not be paving the entire existing parking lot. So it would still be able to be used for the general public visiting the park. It would just be designating a space intentionally for those who can utilize the kayak launch. So would the entire lot be asphalt or just those one or two spaces? Just the one or two spaces and then the pathway leading to the kayak launch. And I'm sure you went over this during the public interaction. Why is there a need for a separate kayak launch and pier versus just applying a kayak launch onto the existing pier? So the recommendation is just because of the length of that pier and getting kayaks on and off of that pier. And it's challenging from an ADA perspective to easily launch. It's a floating dock as well. Yeah. So it's the height of the dock versus the launch. Right. It's problematic for ADA as well. Okay. I know that the public had concerns about the mangroves and the height in the view. or crowding at that launch location. For me, first and foremost, this is about resiliency. And so I'd be concerned about if there's any gap in mangroves, whether that weakens the overall concept. You know, we can trim the mangroves so can we let them grow up to the launch but then keep them maintained and manicured so that there's easy access but we don't have gaps on either side. Also, the oyster bed, the way that is designed, does that make, if I launch my kayak from the shore, am I able to get past those oyster beds or do they create a barrier that can't be broached either way, ingress or egress? The current design is that that would create a barrier but we could look at creating a pathway out to the waterway if you're launching from the shoreline but with the addition of the riprap revetment and the mangroves, I don't know where you would launch from the shore and so it would really be directing people to launch from the designated kayak launch area for safety so that they're not trying to walk over the riprap. And that leads to my thought on closing in those mangroves because if you do leave a gap, people are going to launch there whether we think it's logical or not. They're going to do that so I'd just be, and again, and I'm not a mangrove expert, is there a difference or is there a connection between the height of a mangrove and the depth of the roots? I don't know but I can find out. Is that something that you may know? That is something I do not know. That is a very good question. But I do know the roots go very, very deep but I'm not sure about how tall compared to how the root system is. And there's black, white, and red mangroves all along the shoreline so I would have to do some research to see the differences in those three species. Yeah, just to touch base on whether those gaps of the mangroves create weakening areas within the shoreline. I think that's where we would like to implement those three green living components for those areas as well. You know, our best recommendation would be for both the riprap revetment and complete mangrove lining within the shoreline. That is to provide the utmost resilience for this shoreline. But we do understand the public's concerns with not lining the entire shoreline with mangroves. It is a park that many people go to for the views, for the vistas. So we will explore the idea of providing gaps within the shoreline for those view sheds but as well as ensuring that those specific gaps are still protected whether that be maybe incorporating another layer of oyster domes and just evaluating that during our design. We don't want any segment within the shoreline to be exposed. So that's a good point. We will definitely consider that during design. I just wanted to also say that when we do do the plantings around the mangroves will naturally move outward and it will create a whole shoreline. It's just going to take some years for that to happen but it will happen. And there are permits that you can obtain from FDEP to keep it a certain depth down I should say for line of sight. So that can all be worked out. And there is such thing as also trimming the actual mangroves itself to provide those view sheds as well. So that is something that we will definitely discuss with the city in regards to their you know their maintenance unfortunately that is a maintenance component when incorporating this but it does help with keeping the view sheds but also keeping the shore stable as well. And I would like to understand a little more from the public on what their concerns are as far as the viewing as far as the viewing is concerned but that's a multi-use park and we use it for a lot of concerts for example. So is there concern that by sitting in my lawn chair watching a concert I won't be able to see the water and they're going to want us to keep those mangroves at two feet at three feet at four feet? The minimum is six feet that's how tall they want them from the root system and but since they'll be placed at the toe of the slope that height would actually be lower than you think. The wall is about five feet so with that we'll probably only I guess based off of Gabriella's height just a foot but they were mainly concerned of yes in the event of these concerts and just being out on the lawn not only with the mangroves but the upland plantings as well but luckily the upland plantings we will select species that keep a low profile so that we can avoid you know blockage of views. And I do have more questions but I'm going to relinquish my time to allow the other members. Thank you. Okay Commissioner DeGuard questions. Thank you Mayor. I'm going to approach this one a little differently. My questions are going to be focused on amortization time things like that. Can you share with me when the last time this kind of obviously we put RIPPRAP in the past when was that done? What's the life of that particular project been and how often we're going to have to replace it in the future? I'm sorry there's three questions in there so pick the one you want to start with. So from my research and permit digging I saw that this revetment was built around 1980 something so it's definitely had its life for sure so it's been what 30 40 years about. And what's the expected life of what we're proposing here? The living shoreline it just keeps getting better with time like Natalie said it's pretty much the opposite of putting in a seawall where it deteriorates over time the living shoreline would only get better over time. So we won't have to replace this RIPPRAP? Not for oh gosh I don't know I would say over 50 years but with the green living shoreline improvements you know implemented in addition to the green infrastructure it lasts longer and it also prevents further erosion to the gray infrastructure as well so in tandem they will just last a lot longer than anticipated or a lot longer than if just the gray infrastructure were implemented like before. All right I suspect the reason the pier is there is because of the same concern regarding visibility and seeing the sound why was that not included in this project? Why was the the pier renovation? They're from a separate fund so they have their separate projects we have a separate funding source and a project for the pier It would be I'll get into that in the comments All right thank you the kayak launch you said this had been reviewed by other committees and they were in agreement with the structure and the way we're doing this is that correct? We would have to do a structural analysis for the kayak launch these are the preliminary designs that we've worked through but all of those designs have been shared with the public at the public input meeting and those advisory committees I can't recall the gentleman's name that has been advocating for this pier launch it was he Eric has he been consultant and is he in agreement? Yes I think he was at the public hearing He was at the public meeting and yes shared the support Have we analyzed the potential life of this on the basis of sea level rise? So with the vulnerability assessment as that sea level rise is incorporated into that living shorelines are a component and a solution for an adaptation strategy for that so yes the mangroves the selection of the mangroves being salt tolerant and selecting those that would be able to handle an influx in tidal and sea level rise will be selected as well as the upland plantings but yes it is being incorporated to look at sea level rise for this Thank you very much as well I have at this time Mayor Vice Mayor questions Thank you Mayor Yeah I think you covered the kind of the history of the current revetment and the 1980s you know it appears that basically the approach was to take slabs of concrete and just pile them up on the shore with the hopes that it would do good things I'm curious as to whether any of that material can be reused is that factored into our cost analysis So the way the cost breakdown it includes removal of that material and that one just allows us to see full cost if need be the idea there is to do a further analysis because we would like to use as much of that material that's currently existing there in this project as a foundation there may be some pieces that need to be removed but that is the goal we're just being a little bit conservative with the cost approach if need be Yeah I see an opportunity there I'm sure that the approach and specifically the design approach has changed considerably since 1980 and so hopefully there's a way to reuse that material with regards to the mangroves I appreciate the distinction between black red and white but I guess the question is as it pertains to gap in the extent of the coverage is there a preference one way or the other on that because they're all the same but uniquely different in terms of selecting the mangroves I can see if Gabriela or Amanda have a comment on selection Yeah I would say having all three it just offers more to the environment the way the roots are some like the red mangrove the roots come out of the ground and it gives just it gives more variety if you have all three in my opinion and all three are already out there currently so it just kind of gives gives more of a selection to the fish and you know whatever seagrass oysters it just gives kind of different growing variety I would say all three would be a good good approach Yeah and I appreciate that answer too because I you know you know how how it's currently done out at Honeymoon you know and you start looking at the slope down to the water you have the white mangroves which are typically a little bit of a higher ground mangrove and then it progresses into the black which are more of the root system but where the real protection from the erosion happens is with the red mangroves so it's you know anyway I that's my reason for that is I'm hoping that gets incorporated into the analysis of this just curious and I tried to find this in the minutes but I know that the vote was five to one with the CEQS what was the concern on the descent the view shed what was it the view shed having mangroves there at all yeah okay all right and then what were the concerns with regards to the oyster domes and the safety of kayak so since oysters are sharp they just wanted to make sure that the design would allow for kayakers to utilize the floating kayak launch and safely access the water without having to navigate the oysters which is fair yeah I have no further questions you know we've talked about kayaks are there any kayaks being are people launching out there right now well not currently because the pier is closed but I believe people have used the pier to launch if I understand but it's a very challenging launching point because of the length of the pier and it is also not ADA accessible so they've actually taken their kayaks all the way to that floating dock out on the end possibly is there any way to this is just something you know we have that beautiful pier that's there and I know it's damaged and I know hopefully someday it'll be fixed but it would be nice to maybe use that somehow rather than spending the extra money for the entire new kayak dock I didn't I know that I've listened to people come up here and talk about kayak launching but I had no idea we were going to go so far as to build an entire new dock for them I thought it would be more just beach access or access through the through the from the shore you know and looking at can you go to slide 17 that one okay so that's where we are today now during the presentation and I think it kind of goes along with what vice mayor said those chunks of concrete and I believe I heard that there could be some of them that could be moved replaced or repositioned was I correct in listening to that because that sounds a whole lot less money yes ultimately we're going to use as much of the current and existing riprap and construction material that's out there as a foundation and add to it there may be pieces that need to be removed so that line item for removal is higher and we would like to see that as a opportunity to reduce costs but that's included in there because we don't know yet how much may have to be removed so it's really a more conservative approach to looking at costs okay and if we go to screen 18 that kind of leads into what we were talking about I recognize it's all been that would be new riprap and the current concrete removed am I correct yes or we could utilize what's existing as a base foundation and add to it over top immediately north and south of the pier why are those two spots left without any riprap added to those so just to the north is a and I'm gonna there we have an infrastructure there there's a pipe I don't know if it's storm water or yes storm water storm water pipe so allowing thank you allowing that to flow out and then I would need to check on that piece right there because it looks like that might there's two there's two outlets there's two pipes to the north of the pier and the south of the pier so there isn't a pipe on the south side there yeah there's there's three so we would during our design we will we would obviously have to protect those pipes we wouldn't want to propose this on top of it could definitely cause damage to those pipes and people want that but within it's hard to orient myself within this image because I believe the north side is the right of this image but in that that gap right there we do have existing mangroves so I don't know if maybe Gabriela can talk a little bit more on that but with these existing mangrove areas we cannot propose riprap we can't really propose anything within those areas it's part of their requirements so that's that's also why we show that gap but also to allow water to seep through to those mango mangroves and towards the left side where we don't see riprap we are trying to protect that area as well but during our design we will incorporate as much as we can without impacting those mangroves we do want this entire shoreline to be covered with this riprap aside from as I mentioned the outfalls and the mangrove areas okay all right okay and just out of curiosity do we know the property owners to the south and the north if they've taken as much concern about securing their shoreline I mean if we do all this in our neighbors aren't doing it it seems like we're still going to maybe have some I don't know some carryover on and damage to our property do we have any idea what's the single family home to the north yes private property okay on each side so we don't we don't know what kind of shore protection they have I don't know I don't believe they have seawalls okay okay good that's all I had mayor thank you okay I'm following up on that so if they have seawalls on either side does that affect this project at all or is it still I don't believe they have seawalls and I can confirm that and get back to you but when Pinellas County water navigation reviewed the site that was I think one of the reasons that we would not be eligible for a seawall is because there isn't an adjoining seawall on either side so it would hurt them if we got a seawall okay got it that makes sense okay a couple of things first my question on the pier what is the timeline on the pier I just got asked this question yesterday hey Tony morning again Tony Mulkey Parks and Recreation Director so we were we were working on the pier we had the engineering assessment performed last fall and we were moving towards trying to scope out a project and hopefully falling under the the nationwide permitting through the core and adding it to an existing contractor we met with consultants on this and and they discussed that we had to put it out for a fresh bid so that kind of changes how we're gonna structure everything because of the permitting process on this so we're hoping to have kind of a path forward this fall to be able to put it out on the street and get some numbers so we really have no idea what an actual not right at the moment no okay and is that FEMA reimbursed it is and that's that's why we have to take the extra steps gotcha and so I'm just trying to I was never thinking of this as a launch for kayaks but is there is there a reason we couldn't make it both a walkway and a launch for kayaks because I just never thought that even made sense but I now it's been talked about so I want to understand it so we as part of the management plan this was originally an FCT acquisition for the park and it has a requirement for a kayak launch you know as part of the pier and things like that which we do have it comes down to that accessibility factors if we're doing a significant improvement we have to meet ADA guidelines and even if you were to kind of build it into the the pier you're going to have almost the same level of infrastructure so in the site plans are being presented to you here it puts it in closer proximity to the parking makes it a little bit easier for user access and it's it's consistent with a similar similar plan that we were permitted for previously several years several probably at least 10 years ago because if not like you would be carrying your kayak to the very end of the pier and then what do you do at the end of the pier I mean there's not a is there a floating dock out there yes there's a floating platform that was part of the original design out there well not the original it's not got rails around it it's just a no yeah it's just an open okay I guess I've been a while since I've been out there to the end because I certainly didn't go out illegally so okay all right so I got that okay next question would be do we know the amount level and speed of the current erosion I can turn it over to CPH to see if they have an answer to that that is something I may have to get back to the team on I'm not sure if in-depth wave analysis was conducted but we did analyze recent storms within this area and I believe from the top of my head this area is susceptible to about six to nine feet of storm surge so that's pretty much all the information I know of in terms of the wave energy within this area but in terms of speed and whatnot that is something I may have to look into with our team yeah I mean it's part of my thought I can't remember when we were going to do a bunch of stuff on Edgewater Drive and a lot some people own the property on the other side of the road and they couldn't you know they wouldn't give up some of their rights but I mean honestly I don't know that there's been a lot of erosion in the last 30 years there so I just want to understand the urgency of this I think it's a great project but I want to understand the urgency so I think that's important to drill down on so what's the pros and cons of mangroves versus no mangroves just ask a layman's question so having no mangroves at all you're going to see eventual more erosion if you only have riprap there mangroves protect the riprap yeah so they're probably like a very key component yes but I also understand you know I mean we've all seen it we all know it over the years you know the mangroves grow people get upset you're only allowed to cut down so much per whatever whatever the law says but they get out of control they're not kept up and all of a sudden then you can't get them down and people are upset so I mean it's a thing and I think that from our perspective as we go down that road which you know makes sense is that we got to keep them up or it just equals upsetness so I recently did a project down south and it was similar they wanted to put mangroves up and they actually yearly trim them for I think it's a couple hundred dollars dollars and you tell them exactly the height that you want it every year and they come in and they cut it directly down you just have to have a permit for I think it's a five year permit and you pay a small fee and they do a professional mangrove trimmer comes in and keeps them at that height for you so it would just have to be something that is done from the very beginning of the project and keep it up every year kind of a thing do we have any other areas in the city where we keep mangroves cut down I believe we have mangrove contracts at the golf course and we're disciplined and we're on it and we are proud of ourselves for staying on it and we haven't let them grow out and people are like what the heck just trying to ask because that's what happens as long as you have a permit and a professional mangrove trimmer and you keep up on it every five years and again just being fair I think the key is discipline the key is having a process where it is automatic and built into the system because once they grow out of control it takes forever to get them down because you can only cut them so far each time you are correct morning again Tony Mulkey Parks and Recreation Director just one thing with the mangrove maintenance you're spot on it needs to be maintained because if they get beyond a certain level that triggers different permitting requirements so using a licensed contractor like we do at the golf course to keep on it it's key on that and we have that written into our budget currently on that the other aspect if we didn't plant on riprap out there we'd still get mangroves we'd get volunteer mangroves eventually birds or whatever so there's a joke that I'll throw out there that if you really don't like your neighbor throw a mangrove in their yard but they are very beneficial both for flora and fauna thank you Tony appreciate it I feel better how many spaces of parking are out there now? I don't have a count exactly but I can get that to you I was just kind of any concern that kayak launching will overtake so mayor clarification there's parking on the east and the west side so you just want the west side or both west side it's not like you know there's not extravagant parking there so I'm just trying to understand the demand of kayaking how popular that'll get because United and Eden parking is always a problem so other than grants I guess I'll ask this to the city manager where will we get this kind of money grants no yeah I mean I think that you know the point of the presentation today is to solicit your comments your questions answer those comments and questions get this to a point where it's shovel ready and then apply for grants and I think that this project is certainly a grant rich type of project if you will there's a lot of grant funding out there setting aside a match which I don't think is enough of a match as Natalie had said already but not willing to go beyond that match at this point until we find out what's happening in November I think we need to get this project as far along as we can and then see what grant funding is going to permit us to fund any of our enterprise funds that could help this project or not really doesn't fit stormwater yeah apparently that is a stormwater outfall there and if anything it would be that but then too we would need to look at what the current condition of stormwater enterprise fund is I get it but I'm just thinking right now just looked at the penny list for the new one know what we're facing for property tax I've just been trying to be creative I do think Mayor if I may that your question regarding the urgency of the project is very important and it's something that we need to answer as far as starting with the phase one the revetment and then move forward from there so today it really is about the concept yeah I mean I don't you know yeah I think that is the key how fast do we have to do something I guess I love the project I mean I absolutely love the project and I've seen some of the places around Florida because of Tampa Bay Regional Planning and I'm sure Commissioner Sandberg has too they're great and they're great and people are like wow this is very proactive so to our environment so my last question is just for my information you guys have made the comment that if we do this it just keeps getting stronger so I guess my question but then I also heard it's got a life of 50 years so if it just keeps getting stronger why doesn't it last forever that's my question just to clarify so it just depends on the components in which the city is ready to implement so with gray infrastructure as Natalie and Gabriela mentioned let's say seawall for example there's a design life expectancy for it same thing with this rip rapid that we would be proposing they are expected to last I would say within the 50 to 100 year range again it depends on the maintenance that is done to it but on top of the gray infrastructure if we were to implement the green living shoreline improvements that aspect is what will continue to grow stronger so with that strength it causes less damage less erosion to the gray infrastructure that would already be there so it extends the life expectancy for the rip rap that we would be proposing I don't know Gabriela if you have anything else to add in terms of just like the oyster domes and life expectancy for that or if that's just kind of just also something that just gets stronger with time so basically it's how the waves are hitting you know the mangroves first and how the waves are hitting the oyster domes first especially in storms I think the biggest maintenance item would be storms because otherwise you know it's really taking care of itself but I would say the oysters would be the first line of defense for wave action and then the mangroves would be the second line of defense for wave action and then the rip wrap would be the third line of defense so it really is a three it really would help extend it a lot longer so while we don't have the years but we have you know the studies that show that it really does last we could probably look into how much longer just to have you know some numbers for you okay you know one other comment I keep having questions pop in my head like hurricane helene like would we expect that storms like that would cause the worst kind of damage of erosion along there and do we know like did it erode anything or I mean I would say from all the projects that I've been working on yeah the storms with the nine foot you know it does it doesn't completely break up everything but it it helps it helps tremendously having that the first two lines of defense which are oysters and mangroves by the time it gets to the infrastructure the waves have dissipated now sea level when it does rise up you know there is going to be some type of erosion but it's not going to happen as quickly I think that's the we're slowing it down tremendously with the living shoreline okay but again I guess that amount level and speed of erosion probably is key okay I don't have any other questions does anyone else have an additional commissioner Degard thank you mayor I want to be sure what we're putting into the sound through the various outlets here is this wastewater or are we dealing with stormwater outlets which is it so it's both it's both so that's what we've got going right there all right I just was trying to figure out how we ended up with the park here and I think I now know thank you this would be for those two on the call I was recently it was a couple years ago I was involved in a pretty extensive riprap project in Georgia and I remember there was a huge difference in cost we ended up using quartz any idea what type of stone we would use on this riprap project I believe typically we use limestone I know that riprap can vary in different of different sizes and obviously with those sizes comes construction costs but armor stone limestone I think are most commonly used ones that is within the range of medium to large sized riprap which is most likely what will be proposed in this area with small riprap it's likely to be carried with the wave action very similar to what's actually happening at the Roxy wall at the moment we definitely want those larger but not too large either because obviously with construction costs that will come back astronomically high but I would say armor stone limestone is typical to what we usually propose here okay that's all I need thank you mayor I think we have our first volunteer too since you're so knowledgeable this is great get him marked down as first volunteer you see me drive that equipment yeah vice mayor yeah just one other question just what's involved in the permitting process for this because my understanding is that I believe not all permitting processes are created equal and I don't know if this carries the same sort of burden as would just a pure peer replacement I'm really not sure how that works I'm sorry I don't know if I understood the question you wanted to know about the permitting cost for what we're currently trying to permit opposed to just the replacement of the peer no I'm sorry that probably convoluted that no I'm I'm just interested in what the process is because when I look at your timeline you know the longest part of that process is the permitting piece yes yes yeah so what how I can explain it is we've already kind of started the permitting process so me as the scientist going out and looking at the existing conditions doing the wetland delineation doing the seagrass survey now I have all my data from existing conditions and now we actually have a meeting scheduled with the Army Corps we have a pre-app meeting scheduled with FDEP so they are going to give us a lot more guidance of how big the oyster domes need to be and the spacing and just little bits and pieces of you know the individualized project because every project is different they look at you know probably they'll be looking at the outlets for storm water and wastewater you know all of that will come into play so we have those meetings scheduled once those meetings are scheduled and they give us a roadmap per se then we can start to get our design we can start nitpicking our design to abide by their regulations and what they see fit so that's kind of why it takes a little bit longer is there's a lot of back and forth there's a lot of report writing there's a lot of meetings and just trying to hone in on exactly what the agencies are going to require for this type of project no thank you I appreciate that I think Commissioner Gall had some thank you just to piggyback on the vice mayor's comments what I'm having trouble kind of piecemealing the timeline versus funding versus permitting all together is there a timeline or does the permitting last forever once we get permitting or is it for a specific period of time it's usually about six months it can be longer it can be up to a year but usually I would say it really depends on the permit schedule and also the construction yes so yeah pretty much the next steps from I guess this meeting and onward is we obviously need some guidance as to which phases we proceed with design and permitting so essentially our design team will put together a 60% package for design which is a lot more detailed than what we propose today in which we will provide to those agencies that have jurisdiction within this area as Gabriella mentioned it's Army Corp FDEP and I believe we do have to permit with Pinellas County which they will likely ask for those permits in hand but from that point we do that coordination that Gabriela has mentioned and yes the timeline for permitting can be upwards of a year in this case I wouldn't think so it just all depends on what they would require from us I guess the gray area here is the funding I know that that's really what's of priority right here because once we have those permits in hand with whichever phase actually we permit with those permit approved permits won't last forever so I would say upwards of five years I think is their expiration oh I'm sorry I didn't understand the question I guess no no it's okay it's just kind of like providing a timeline from here on now and just highlighting the urgency of the guidance we need and just the project itself as well because we could go through with submitting for these permits getting them in hand but they only last for so long we would have to reapply if these projects aren't expected to get constructed within their expiration timeline you can apply for an extension but it's usually I think it's about five years and then you can add an extension on there so it does it can last longer if you you know ask for longer thank you and I believe at the beginning you talked about no more questions I'm permitting moving on seagrass I believe you mentioned that the amount of seagrass we had was good and so it really we didn't need to add extra seagrass into this project I was very surprised with how much seagrass was out there there was shoal grass lots of shoal grass and lots of manatee grass so I was pleasantly surprised when I did the survey and the current design is avoiding the seagrass perfectly with how it is designed and the seagrass is actually waterward and it's huge I mean it's like a huge continuous bed of seagrass out there so the resources are already there for seagrass I would say and then the oyster domes just kind of fill in the bare bottom is there any studies that have been done can we measure the damage to seagrasses from kayaks sure I can look into that I don't see why not I don't want to add to the invoice I think staff can look into that we're good there yeah because I don't right because seagrass is important and it's kind of proud that Dunedin has this off our coast that hey we're looking good for seagrass and then we have a kayak launch and in 15 years extensive damage has been done to those seagrasses and so if we're going to do this again resiliency sustainability has to be the primary focus here and the view of the gulf to me is secondary the kayak launch is secondary just supporting and maintaining the coastline is for me the most important let me see you'd also ask things that you're looking for maybe this is under comments Natalie I don't know when you want it but we can do comments separate okay that is all that I have mayor thank you okay so we can give our final comments but city manager I mean you just kind of wanted our basic thoughts here right yeah yeah your basic thoughts and then you know there's a lot of discussion here on funding and it's very obviously it's a very appropriate discussion and I think that I'd like to take this step by step first of all it's crucial obviously that we have city commission buy-in to the concepts that you see here and I think not even necessarily the phases but let us continue with the permitting get it shovel ready and then and then we will advise you of whatever funding is available as far as grant funding goes moving forward so I think we just have to work very closely together with staff and the commission to look at all options available to us moving forward oh oh oh good point we can take citizen input yeah I don't think we're quite there yet but yeah we're not let's see where are we questions from staff yeah well that's next but yeah okay good okay so we will open it now to public input anyone wishing to comment on this issue step forward three minutes name and address for the record hi Nan Bennett 1990 Saddle Hill Road North Dunedin Florida and this is a project that I'm passionate about and I've been involved in and monitoring from the beginning and great job on the presentation and all the details and some of these questions or comments I have maybe are addressed but just weren't in the written or the presented material I noticed that the design involved a much more uniform rounded style of rip wrap as opposed to the old style which was more like slabs waste concrete that was just sort of tossed down there to stabilize the shores I just want to make sure that when we design the project and put it out to bid that that's fully specified and that the cost reflect that we're getting a more uniform rounded a better appearing project for the aesthetics of it and then with the pavement for the ADA that typically triggers having to do some amount of stormwater treatment for increasing the impervious area I didn't see that in the design anywhere where that stormwater treatment would go and just as a clarification everything you're seeing within the park is stormwater outfalls there are wastewater outfalls there's two to the south but they weren't shown on these drawings they extend out 1700 feet out to the shipping channel so there's a mixing zone so it's not playing into this design they're well south of everything we've seen on this I think they might be outside of the park in the road right away and then finally with this project and with any project we've heard and we've talked about the not just the capital cost but that there will be ongoing operations and maintenance costs there will be ongoing permitting costs because there will be monitoring of the plant life and how it's surviving possibly replantings I think to have an honest estimate of what's going to have to be in our ongoing year to year budget to maintain this we need to have that in the design as well so that we can plan for that as the ongoing budget goes on thank you thank you anyone else wish to come forward and speak on this issue okay seeing none any comment on those I think there wasn't necessarily a question just some things to make sure you're looking into yeah I wrote down all those comments and we'll definitely incorporate them and again what we're showing is not complete designs it was really more preliminary so a lot of these details and components haven't been included yet because we wanted to see what direction get general feedback that we are going in the right direction before we add in all of those other additional details but they will be addressed okay all right great thank you okay we're going to close public input we're going to go to commission comments and I will start with vice mayor thank you mayor so I just kind of sum this all up I think we're asked for a few things here one I'm very in favor very much in favor of the concept I the process to me is technically fascinating and it's an absolute necessity in terms of where we're at ecologically so I'm very much in favor of it a second I think we were asked about the implementation of the approach you know looking from a cost consideration and the phasing part of it I would I would love to be able to say that I would just love to get this all done and do it in one fell swoop I mean the cost analysis being the cost analysis is is less than the other options and appears to provide a little more grant opportunity but with that said we are going into a period here where we're going to have to make some decisions that will be impacting this and other projects as we get into the discussion of the property tax referendum coming up in November the I think the third thing you you asked was was about oyster recruitment or sponsorships I think that's an awesome idea I really do and I'd be very much in favor of that and I guess my final comment here is is that for my colleagues or anybody who's out there I have a spiel that I do on the Caledisi ferry regarding mangroves and or as the Tokobaga Indian tribe called them walking trees so if you're interested in hearing that I'll be happy to share it thank you okay final comments Commissioner Sammer no I think I'm anxious to hear about the amount of erosion you know that was a great question how fast you know to me it looks like it's been like that for many years if it comes up that it really is starting to erode I would fully be supportive of the first phase whether it be to use what's there redirect it reconfigure it or if we had to go to rip rap and again that I think by the way I'm answering that is based on we don't know what's coming in November so I mean we have to be very cautious with the taxpayers money but yet we need to protect what we have there so it was a good presentation you did a nice job and support the first phase I would be supporting as long as we can back it up thank you okay final comments Commissioner Raquel thank you mayor as far as the timeline phasing or not phasing I'd like to go with all in because it seems to be the cheaper but I don't know if we're going to be able to do that just because of the unknowns so I will put that back to staff and go you guys guide us just make sure it's as cheap as possible but quality first also as far as input fundraising ideas the more you can get the community involved in this the better I think you get stronger buy-in as well as we can get it for cheaper certainly put me down for sponsoring one of the oyster balls or whatever you want to call them whichever one we're choosing I'll sponsor one depending on what that cost is I'm sorry too late you didn't ask that question yeah you're on the record there you go and and I won't phrase this I'll phrase this as a as a comment but it's kind of a question from my understanding the mangroves will cover the riffraff and if it's covering the riffraff does it need to be round and pretty can we use just old slabs of concrete yeah that's a question it's too late for that I might know I'm so just just a comment it would be cheaper if we could rhetorical that is all that I have Commissioner de Gard final comments thank you mayor and I want to thank my colleagues for exploring this prospect so well and Natalie did a great job as usual thank you very comprehensive and complete and we have no idea what we're doing this is this is not I wish this was an all things being equal kind of question it's not we are facing a set of circumstances that in my short tenure tenure is unprecedented and also I think in the tenure of almost everybody up here is unprecedented in as much as we have to read the room and the room is very challenging right now if you'll let me say so and so I can support this in concept but I have to also say that that concept be it so appealing it's so appealing I want to actually have a plan for the entire sound from an ecological standpoint the entire sound I think is a park and I don't think we're treating it like that so this would be a step in that direction that's how strong I am in support of this however within the context of costs other forms of revenue those are my caveats we have to be careful here and I think making any decision before November 3 would be Pollyannish at best so I don't think we need to see this before then in any kind of actionable way thank you mayor so my final comments you know first of all I've seen some of these things that other communities have done because of Tampa Bay Regional Planning Council and all the work that they do because it really is being very proactive environmentally with how we handle you know erosion and issues like that in in the most environmentally protective way so to speak if I'm saying that good and and so I'm 100% think this is a great way to go when we have these kind of situations we should be looking at this first and foremost and so big time on that I will say to your comment about what's first I did get one solicited comment on my phone while we're sitting here and it was don't all capitalize screw up my view so so I'm not allowed to say who but anyway so but again I think that comes back to the discipline of you know maintain maintenance understandable though so but again first and foremost regardless of what I think about this being a great way to go on this piece of property it is all about priorities and amount level and speed of erosion is the number one question that we need to understand and to understand the urgency or not of when and where we have to do it as we kind of face a lot of financial challenges with or without the referendum passing or failing so okay may I have what you need yeah if I may just kind of summarize that we're very clear where we are moving forward so in regards to the boats the input on overall concept and design you're comfortable with the concept and design you like the work that's been done you there are things we need to address the urgency is number one we need to get back to you on that and the issue with I think we're getting a clear picture we have a clear picture of the public concerns regarding the view shed and the mangroves and that's really in the maintenance plan for the mangroves moving forward so the preferred option for phased installation approach are all at once actually what I'm hearing is is all at once for the purposes of submitting for grants that we'd have a most likely a better opportunity to get those grants if it's all at once versus a phased approach but we do need to be very cognizant of funding I'm hearing from you nothing before November and I certainly agree with that we need to know exactly where we are after the November 3rd referendum so the direction on contracted turnkey installation versus heavy community engagement and volunteer based installment I'm hearing you'd like the community involved especially with the oyster houses balls things rags whatever those things are but anyway and I and I agree with that I think that we could put together a really great program that the community would embrace and really want to be involved in as well and that that also encompasses the the the funding for the adopt an oyster dome or a mangrove and certainly I you know Natalie raises the flag as far as staff time that is labor-intensive effort but I think that it's something that's certainly worthwhile that the community would absolutely as I said embrace so I think we have our clear direction and we have some questions to answer for all of you which we'll probably do under separate cover that we can answer relatively quickly so thank you and you did make note of Commissioner Gauss sponsorship commitment thank you that was the word I was sorry I did commitment and I know those costs around what five thousand so I just might and I did want to clarify I meant an oyster I would buy the first oyster I did I'm not sure that's what you said but anyway all right we're going to take a short break and we'll be right back open the meeting and our next item is to be which is our penny five discussion and we're going to go to less and Jean on that thank you mayor vice mayor commissioners less tire the finance director I'm here with Jean our budget manager and our agenda today is to talk about a little bit about penny four and then get into penny five and our we're going to talk about penny for our draft long range plan that's in our current proposed budget and some of the revenue comparisons that we the estimate of penny four compared to the actuals that we're projecting and then get into penny five revenue projections and then the request of projects that we have to date and then some funding challenges with penny five and I want to mention before we get started that we had one discrepancy in our staffing today and I just want to point it out in the background section which is page one it mentioned station 61 as a project for hardening in the amount of two million dollars that should be station 62 not sit not not 61 the slides are correct and the exhibit in the staffing is correct but I want to point out that inconsistency and moving to the slides first item is kind of some brief background on on penny for Pinellas it's a one percent tax and it's been in place since 1990 it is not collected on groceries or medications and it only applies to the first five thousand dollars of the single purchase approximately one-third of penny for Pinellas revenues is paid by visitors and tourists each year in the state of Florida or in our county it funds capital projects infrastructure projects that do not rely on property tax revenue and some previous penny projects that our city has done over the past few years are our city hall our our community center our EOC facility and fire station 61 and moving to our 2027 proposed penny fund that we'd like to walk through briefly want to point out some of the assumptions that we have in penny for currently in 2027 you see we have a reduction in revenue proposed of about six percent point one percent reduction and that that is because if you recall back in october of last year there was a change the elimination of the tax on commercial rents that reduced our city sales tax and also cities and counties throughout the state by about seven percent is our best estimate seven to eight percent but that's what that that reduction is ongoing and we're making that adjustment in 27 and and then from that point on in 28 through 30 we've got growth estimates of three percent for 28 and 29 and then we've got a modest 1.5 percent for 2030 and i want to mention that penny five expires uh december of 2029 is when uh penny four expires expires also in the assumptions we have uh funding for the aquatic complex we've got a million dollars in donations for the aquatic complex budgeted we've received about 850 thousand dollars uh so far on that and we're expecting the last 150 000 to be a donation in in fiscal year 29 and for transfers in we've got uh every year since uh 2021 we have a contribution from the water wastewater fund 400 for 468 000 that's their contribution to city hall and that will that will take place through october of 2029 and then and those will stop and our our financing for the city will be paid off in october of 2029 and moving to our long range plan i just want to go over a few highlights uh we've uh estimated revenue and projected expenses out to penny four time frame which is uh 2030 is uh it expires december of 2029 which falls in fiscal year 2030. a few changes in this proposed budget in 2027 that we that are different from the current year 2026 year is uh we were proposing moving the aquatic complex project to fiscal year 2029 in in this uh long range plan we've also increased the cost of construction we've estimated an increase in construction costs uh of about 17 percent over that three-year period that was uh an estimate from our design consultant that he provided to tony and myself the plan or goal is assuming that penny five is approved by the voters in november of 2028 we would move all the project costs to the penny fund and out of the general fund we currently have the penny fund budgeted uh excuse me we have the project for the aquatic complex budgeted in the penny fund and the general fund both the goal would be once penny five passes we've moved the entire project to the penny fund um want to mention also on the on the next page we've got a couple of projects i wanted to point out we've got buna vista drive drainage improvements uh that's a new project and that's in the middle of the page and it's over uh 250 000 in 28 and 29 fiscal years a total of 500 000 and that's uh funding needed for the brick streets portion of the work on that project uh also we in the outer years we have uh replacement of of the fleet design fleet facility design cost in 2029 that was also in last year's penny long range plan and i just want to point out that this is this is a long range plan and it's a draft and we have that in the outer years we also had it in last year's but that can be changed by the city manager or the commission you know per your direction uh as we move forward we have about uh on page one again gene we've got about 1.5 million dollars uh important to mention if you look at the bottom uh the yellow the yellow highlighted row we've got about 1.5 million unobligated so that and that's funding that's that's uh can be used for unknown capital project needs or projects that may go over budget uh over the next three year time frame and moving to uh the uh revenue comparison uh this is a shows a graph of back in 2017 the county estimated uh the the property tax revenue stream that we would expect with penny four and that estimate was uh from the period 2020 through 2030 that estimate was about 45.3 million the projection back then was we'd receive 45.3 million in penny revenue over that 10 year time frame uh based on our actuals to date and our projections for the next three years we are estimating that to be about our total to be 51.8 million uh so that's good news it's better that better than projected uh the original projection uh i want to mention our penny four revenue growth has been uh interesting you know we started out in early early 2020 with covid and we had uh big concerns that cova was going to dramatically reduce our sales tax uh luckily it only reduced our sales tax by about six percent that initial year and then in 21 and 22 we had uh really really good growth years for for sales tax we had 16 percent growth two years in a row which is which is really extraordinary yeah you you don't see that uh uh often and that was mainly due to pin-up demand due to covid and also residents moving to florida kind of a combination of those two things and then from 23 to 25 our growth was uh more modest growth at about 1.4 percent average per year for 20 for the the three years 23 through 25 but in total uh we are expecting our 10-year revenue stream to be uh about 51.8 million and now moving in a little bit into penny five uh the county has not the county has not shared anything with us on penny five revenue streams yet i did reach out to the county the omb director chris rose and asked him when he thought they would be uh sharing that information and he had no specific date but he said he would get back to me when he had more information i'm estimating probably within the next six months i would think or less we'll receive that but but for purposes of today uh we made an assumption uh that we're estimating that our revenue stream will be about 63 million dollars and that is based on we are assuming approximately 2.5 percent growth every year uh that was the that was the same estimate that the county uh had done back when they estimated our revenue back in 2017 and so we think it's a reasonable basis uh or assumption to use so we've got two and a half percent growth for the 10-year period and once we receive the county's the county's estimates will likely obviously take those into consideration and probably use those if they are different but for now we think it's a reasonable assumption uh that two and a half percent mark and you can see on the slide we are recommending that we commit 85 percent of the funding stream which is 53.5 million to 25 projects and allowing 15 for debt service and immediate needs that may arise that we don't know of right now over that 10-year time frame and also absorb uh any revenue shortfalls if that were to happen and that approach that same approach was done by our city back in penny four planning purposes and we can discuss that more but that's our starting point here we think we should hold back about 15 or at least some number you know from and not not try to obligate at all um next item is uh we've got these are the penny funds requests we have to date uh working with our departments and the city manager um we have a the penny the column on the right is is our penny five column and we also have a penny four column uh on the left and and that column is specifically shown to estimate the penny four dollar amount that we are projected to apply to the highlander aquatic complex project so we we plan on applying approximately seven million dollars of penny four to that project and then the rest would be uh paid for with penny five funding the total of the penny five projects as you can see here is about 91.4 million and it's well above our revenue stream that we just discussed and the next few slides we'll go through provides a high level uh snapshot of each of the projects and i'll briefly walk through those and if you have any questions we do have the project managers here to answer any detailed questions the first department is the economic development department uh the first is an affordable housing project and funds to be used towards the acquisition of property or demolition and or site work for a potential project and the second project is trail improvements to facilitate a trail separation downtown for walkers cyclists and e-bikes from skinner to scotland and next is the fire department fire rescue department we want to ask questions as we take these slides if you have any or just want to keep going and ask them at the end but well let's ask them as we go i think okay and so go back to the first one so any questions on this one i'm not going to go do the round just if anybody's got a question on this one sure could you explain a little more about the pinellas trail enhancements seems like every time it comes up it belongs to the county but it looks like we're going to oh thank you bob certainly yep bob ironsmith economic development director uh this is money that uh perhaps working with forward pinellas in the county on a trail separation we obviously got the busiest section of the trail and the whole trail system and it continues to get busier and busier so this is something that we can look at maybe with a concept plan to see how we can do some future improvements with a partnership with forward pinellas or pinellas county relative to some type of trail separation obviously the e-bikes and cyclists versus pedestrians people walking their dog and things of that nature or just mingling outside the trail is causing some congestion and is there a way to get some separation there so this is just some forward looking there's nothing concept planned to show you today but something that we want to at least have some money in the bucket in case we can go ahead and look at some type of partnership deal but if you could just explain what a trail separation what what does that mean having a separation from a e-bike and cyclist from a pedestrian aspect so having actually a little bit of division between those different types of transportation widen the trail or dedicated a specific spot on the trail it could be both we're looking at maybe the widening of the trail where we have it and also looking at the type of some separation in there obviously it's just a busy section so yeah okay that's a lot of thought though this is not something that we have detailed concept plan at this point okay that's good yeah thank you okay bob and i think forward pinellas might end up doing some design work with us right i mean yes i can deferred city manager jennifer branley's had some uh i think talks with uh four panels with with blaine i think her staff has taken a little bit of a look at that yeah i think it's all about there's a grant submittal thing um my question is though that would be would it be a partnership with it would be at uh like are you in your best world would you be looking at 1.5 from us and 1.5 from the county or you just don't know a very preliminary don't know i really don't know but yeah we would look at some type of shared partnership i mean this isn't important i think part of what's happened over the years is you know initially when the trail was was formed this was a linear park you know it closed at dusk you've heard me say we were the first ones to get lit and now it's not only a linear park it's also something that's an activity engine and certainly the dunnean has done that so thank you yep okay go ahead okay next is fire rescue first is a fire logistics storage facility this facility would provide secure centralized storage for reserve fire equipment during normal operations currently department lacks adequate space to house backup apparatus also fire station 60 replacement station was originally built in 1977 and remodeled in 20 2004 with new facility on the existing property the project would incorporate fire administration with the new facility and address hurricane resiliency firefighter health and safety and equipment storage and future operational needs and there are two more for fire rescue the next one is fire station 62 hardening or renovations station was built in 1996 with useful life of approximately 2040 time frame improvements would focus on storm resiliency firefighter safety and health building systems operational continuity until full replacement in a future penny cycle after penny five and the last one for fire is training eoc side improvements for training that they're on the prop on the property to support department training emergency operations and long-term operational readiness project would include a training tower to improve firefighter training capabilities and support future fire department needs any questions on the fire department ones as we're considering reorganizing our revenue flow for the fire department will debts be transferred in such a transaction in the future as well uh with the for the fire special assessment if if it were approved uh we could we could uh issue financing with that for sure and we could issue financing for construction projects things like that so yeah we we definitely if it's approved would be be able to have debt service uh based on that special revenue fund okay thank you good question any other questions on fire okay seeing none none will uh i do have one on the logistics thing is that mainly vehicles that you're talking about michael and doga fire chief uh that is one of the things um that would be going in there we also uh don't have a really a good storage area for bunker gear that's in a um uh climate controlled for our spare bunker gear um all firefighters we're looking to get two sets of bunker gear needs to be in a climate controlled area so that's part of it um supplies for hurricanes it's we've we the stations were not built for um for where we're at today so we definitely do need additional storage the other thing for the for the logistics building is in the event of a hurricane a place to keep some of our apparatus safe in basically a hurricane rated building so that post storm they're able to respond and serve the public so i guess my question too would be if we were to heavily renovate or or rebuild station 60 it could be kind of built into it some storage for equipment and then vehicles we're already talking about aren't we for uh the parking the potential of the parking garage or um i think there was another or if you if we did a new fleet one wouldn't we want to we could do it there i mean yeah it seems like there's some synergies here yeah we could do it in a number of places i know that the uh the parking garage if we move forward with the parking garage the ground floor we're designing that we could um store some of the fleet in there but the fire apparatus is is the height is too high in the in the parking garage itself there are other you know fleet items as i said that we could that we could fit in there perhaps even fire department items but but some of the apparatus would not fit okay okay thank you okay um next the next is uh it services uh this is a secure fiber cable infrastructure installation this project will connect all city buildings to its secure fiber optics cabling to ensure reliable voice and data connections provide a backbone for advanced city services and eliminate communication costs that we currently pay to third parties now questions i have one does this um in any way involve cyber security protections tell me in my when i'm up in my office doing my stuff or citizens are doing it how this changes their world michael nagy it director so currently we have five buildings that are not connected to the city's fiber cabling we use a third party so we're vulnerable to whatever they allow leaking in um this will give us a direct connection from city hall to eoc it will right now the everybody is um there's only three buildings that don't rely on everything uh in the northwest wastewater hail center and library are all connected here everybody else goes through water plant to public services to the eoc so if those two buildings are down we have a lot of buildings that are down um we have fiber cabling along san christopher that's right below the blacktop if somebody would destroy that water plants down parks operation eoc public services down if if fiber cable on san christopher west of pinehurst is destroyed all of highland all the buildings in highlander park as well as in um that the other buildings i just mentioned would be down so this dedicated would be a whole new route using half of our current infrastructure going through jerry lake up achieve away the back way into public services and then fused to the line that goes to eoc so it would make us much more secure so getting on the cyber security aspect you just mentioned getting us off third party entities would be helpful um so and there are future projects we want to do we want to make the eoc a redundant backup center and we kind of need this fiber to be able to do that so okay thank you michael um okay we'll go keep going thank you next is uh library renovations the library will be 30 years old in october 2026 the last major renovation was in 2005 the proposed renovations would include constructing a new circulation desk and front entry area reconfiguring and enclosing selected areas to create more study spaces and updating staff's workspaces to reflect evolving roles and responsibilities any questions okay keep going next is parks and recreation uh first is the uh fisher concession building replacement the concession stand at fisherville provides restroom facilities concession facilities uh office space for dunny little league and softball operations the building has exceeded its useful life and has many plumbing and electrical issues the next is the uh highland aquatic complex the new aquatics facility will include administration building bath house a main pool activity pool and a therapy pool and mechanical facilities and the next is uh marina boat ramp replacement this project uh realignment and modernization of boat ramp at the marina is to address long-standing operational issues and safety deficiencies existing ramp creates congestion during peak hours and limits maneuvering room for trailer vessels the proposed boat ramp realignment or reorients the launch lane with a drive-through lane through the parking area to improve traffic flow reduce waiting times and provide safer operation between the launching loading and pedestrian activity and then there's the playground equipment replacement the city has 13 playgrounds that must meet all current regulations and safety standards to ensure the well-being of all users a typical playground has a lifespan of 10 to 15 years and this uh this requires replacement of one or two playgrounds uh every year and our current budget is approximately 200 000 annually for for playgrounds those are the parks and recreation okay any questions on parks and rec i did i just had a quick question on that um fisher concession stand where did that almost two million dollar number come from it's it's all that tony building it was 1.1 but it was recently raised and tony can answer that one uh good morning still uh tony mulkey parks and recreation um the the number was basically benchmarked off of uh projects from other places in the state with similar footprints um looking at what the previous estimates were i think we had about 1.1 million around 1 million previously uh looking forward to 2030 as well with any kind of escalation in cost to to manufacture something like that uh it's it's that same kind of uh paradigm where you're building in the public realm where everything kind of has to really be on top notch on strength and everything it really builds up the price per square foot okay okay i'll live with that okay thank you um any other questions uh mayor if i may yes and i do and i do believe that concession stand is the original so it was built a long time ago uh the for the aquatic uh if i can find it if i didn't lose it where did that seven million come from penny four because they didn't see that in in the list of the penny four projects now that were completed but in the yeah the uh that never came from in in penny four we have the aquatic complex budgeted in 29 of uh and then we've also got we've also got uh uh debt proceeds budgeted in 29 also in in in penny four and that seven million is really the the difference between the debt proceeds and the construction cost meaning uh what what we're paying paying cash for on the project so it's basically a different for the most part the difference between the construction cost and the bond and the debt proceeds is where you get that that number is that me yeah we're all wondering yeah it's a little little spongy thing we're like okay what's going on over there i thought i was the spongy thing back on sorry did that make sense yeah it does and thank you les because actually i do see it now in that previous slide so we're good no that's all that i have thank you um so the marina boat ramp it occurs to me that any private sector company that was figuring out an enterprise fund it would be included in their fees with the boat ramp so why would the boat ramp not be part of the enterprise fund and therefore a cost if there's any replacement to be borne by the enterprise fund i i think the thought was and uh jennifer and tony i'm sure have thoughts on this was the thought was is the boat ramp is not really used by the slip printers it's used by the public and that i think that was the general thought on why it would be paid out of not not be paid out of the marina fund marina's getting a lot of love right now with a lot of appropriations um so maybe that should be thought about a little bit um and and and just a question actually somebody asked me this yesterday um because it's and it just reminded me because i think we've asked it before so with the money we're getting for an appropriations and then the fema that's supposed to be coming in like how's that going to work that's a good question uh i i've got a meeting plan with tetra tech our consultants to talk about that uh because those dollars will have to be spent before fema but we're trying to determine how we which project we put them on and we want to put them on doc a and b and not on the pier and i'm working with them to try to make sure we we do that working with fema but at some point are we going to have more money than we well no because what's going to happen is that the appropriation that we got is the bird in hand um and we just don't know what we're going to get from fema i'm sorry we just don't know what we're going to right we're continuing to work with fema um and we have not been reimbursed uh and doc a and b i know the marina advisory committee is looking at floating docks so fema will reimburse uh in situ for the same uh infrastructure that was there before and then you would submit for a grant uh for the floating docks but you know in putting this to docs a and b floating docks um then as i said it's a burden hand um fema would then back off right what what it is uh that that we have asked them for as far as as repair the marina so we wouldn't end up with more money we would just end up you know the the appropriation is is more sure than our fema reimbursement right now that's kind of how i answered it especially with the floating docks okay all right um okay sure go ahead yeah i just uh those are regarding the marina and the boat ramp those are really good questions um just might be rhetorical but um we still we still charge for an annual or a pass for the boat ramp or access to it and that goes into the enterprise fund okay okay so as our if i may mayor it was it part of the budget last year yes so um and it was a staff recommendation that we removed the uh boat ramp out of the marina enterprise fund to ease the impact on the marina enterprise fund because the boat ramp as less said is primarily used by the general public and that it's not even residents it's the general public at this point there's not a lot of revenue involved and i think it's 15 000 as i recall or something like that yeah 15 or so i mean if that's something the commission would prefer that we address then we can certainly look at it as part of this uh this budget cycle but um we we had a hard time with a nexus between the marina fund and the boat ramp as far as the usage goes yeah i mean i was just asking how a private sector company would do it and how they would factor it in and right yeah i doubt very much they they wouldn't include it in their enterprise but well i think to answer that question we just kind of need to understand and i remember the discussion with regards to moving it to the general fund but um i think maybe we need a reminder on on what that impact looks like we can certainly do that yeah um and then the second related to that uh it also it also widens the boat ramp the proposal here the description of the project that's correct yeah all right thank you yeah it's not a great boat ramp so i'm not debating that at all sure go ahead commissioner is the use of penny funds in any way going to uh prescribe who gets to use the boat ramp there's no restrictions if we use penny funds on the boat ramp that it has to be open to anybody within pinellas county i just want to be sure of that no there's no restrictions on that based on thank you just want to be sure of that good question yeah cool okay i guess we continue okay next is public works uh first is brick streets uh brick streets are considered an asset by the city which have historical value with a life cycle similar to asphalt currently budgeted at 150 000 annually in our penny for funding uh which takes many years to build up to do one block of repairs or replacement of brick streets and the next is pavement management uh roadway preservation is the main goal of this program that includes assessment with standard pavement condition index ratings uh treatment options cost and conditions are some of the criteria used to prioritize the roadway segments for asphalt resurfacing every year that will preserve the payment integrity and extend the life of the roadway we currently budget approximately 1.3 million uh in the penny in penny four for payment management we are proposing the increase increase to 1.5 in penny five due to uh decrease in gas tax dollars and also just estimated projected increases in payment cost and then also uh public works replacement building this is proposed new cap 5 building to include all daily fleet fleet needs including pinellas county sheriff fleet solid waste fleet and storm prep components including fuel housing of critical city equipment and storage it will be planned to be a dual use uh facility housing employees during a storm event and and grants will also be pursued for this project so any questions although i would suggest you call that the fleet facility replacement because to me public works building is the one behind the water plant at least that's the way it's always been called to me so it was confusing yeah um so any questions on the uh those last couple yeah on the on the brick streets um so i guess this to kind of understand that five million dollar number um we've been i don't want to say inadequately but inadequately budgeted in penny four annually is that basically what you're saying yeah i mean we've been yeah basically yes that's true because we we to do to do a street it's it's uh very expensive probably probably at least a million dollars to do a street roughly and so yeah we've been setting aside dollars to have funding and we we do have a the one proposed we just talked about for an extra 500 to do buena vista but in general yeah we're we're sort of uh underfunding that to some degree okay all right thank you and buena vista is horrible you know it's where the colloc mansion is being you know was torn down and it's uh oh wow it's anyway do you have a question i i do less on on the brick streets um is there has there ever been thought given to um an assessment to the homeowners who live on brick streets and what that may look like to help subsidize and what the impact of a brick street is to the market value of a home versus that's not really something that we have looked into as as far as a direct assessment okay yeah um would that be considered in what forum would i propose that i think actually subject to consensus direction of the city commission um it is something that we could look into i think the argument against it is that the brick streets have been proven to be a break even you want you do a brick street it lasts 100 years no maintenance and you do a paved street and it needs to be fixed what every 15 20 years less than that less than that and we we went through that exercise so that's that's kind of my point of view and i can't disagree with that and i remember that exercise and that's kind of how that was a logic that we used uh with santa barbara and i can't disagree with it but also just acknowledging the upfront cost is so expensive just just a thought not something i'm real strongly it's just how can we help reduce the impact on city budget is where my head is related to that procedurally how would how would we do something like that well subject consensus direction from the city commission we would we we would need to do some investigation as far as the special assessment for brick streets there's a neighborhood improvement districts that you can set up surrounding brick streets there's a direct assessment you know we would really need to look at those options by statute i can't answer that no thank you and just my comments aren't against brick streets i love them and support them it's just the dollar value yeah well no and i get that i get that i was just trying to understand for you were you talking about involuntary assessment or every neighborhood decide hadn't even gone that it depends on the assessment yeah yeah because you could do it either i mean yeah right i mean i'm not even there with you so depends on the vehicle asking the question so okay um all right any other questions okay um go ahead okay this is a summary of the penny five request and it's broke broken out that the uh facility type requests total about 36.9 million recreation projects 27.4 million infrastructure type projects 26.9 million and grants and incentives approximately 1 million and next is uh sort of a summary of you know we've got our estimated available funding of 53.5 million based on that 85 percent uh of of our projection that we talked about earlier over that 10-year time frame the requested projects total currently 91.4 million that leaves a shortfall of about 38 million of unfunded projects uh there's there's always been a challenge in determining which penny projects should should be funded uh there were challenges in penny four and i'm sure in penny three um and you know the city we have numerous competing infrastructure priorities uh and you know city commission and staff will need to work through and evaluate uh and prioritize projects for penny five based on factors such as public safety regulatory requirements asset condition economic impact and project readiness and aligning with our city's long-term goals so and and our thought on moving forward is for next steps is uh you know your input today on you know the requested projects and then uh future identification of signature projects at some point in the future i think we we i think we're well in advance of where we need to be as far as looking into this which i think is good i think we would want to follow up with another workshop or two uh up to the commission's uh direction but i do think i think the county will if i look at if i looked at penny four time frames i think the county will probably want our signature projects uh a year from now or maybe even late in 2027 year but uh but we wanted to get in front of it and start the discussions early that includes our comments and be happy to answer any questions thanks so um so basically we kind of if we go around do a round table kind of general comments general comments on thoughts on the signature projects more information you might need on certain things that kind of thing yes kind of what you're looking for yeah if you want deeper investigation then what is it and that type of okay so i don't know whose side is i'm starting on but i think it's probably this side i'm supposed to start commissioner gal uh just to acknowledge that it's that shortfall slide is what spurred my question on how we can get the projects it's all good it's all fair i mean right just 37 million 38 million whoo uh you know it's hard for me to i'm not going to question any of the proposed projects um other than going forward really what is a need versus what is a want and is this something the city needs or this is something hey since we got the money coming in let's do this and try and focus on a need in general so those are my comments thank you okay uh commissioner new guard any chance we could make it nickel for pinellas i mean that would be glorious um no i i think this is a great first step uh it lets us know what our scope is what our needs are about uh i do think that we're going to have to narrow this down in the future and some future work sessions but uh it's a good start thank you okay vice mayor uh yes mayor just i've just got a very quick question um does does penny four and i know that that the timeline for penny four ends but let's just say we have funds do like would penny four funds carry forward into penny five or is there an expiration no they carry forward you carry four it's about 1.5 million yeah we have one obligated and yeah and we would also carry forward dollars for the aquatic complex as well right yeah another seven right yeah okay i don't really have any comments on the projects i that just this is a good starting point and uh i i think uh commissioner gau's comment with regards to um parsing this into needs and wants is going to be a very critical part of this um but any comments okay uh commissioner sandberg not really anything to add that shortfall is a concern and uh i think it really opens up your eyes to how important this vote will be it'll be november of 2028 is when we'll be back on the on the ballot correct yes that's that's that's all thank you and again was it legally not allowed to be on the ballot november 2027 because that's how it's always been and it definitely allows for more flexibility oh i remember it needs to run with a national election i think yeah it has to be the midterms or the presidential so yeah that that killed us so it would have been better for debate 26 but i don't know who knows maybe that's too soon then so i won't second guess that um so um well i think it's uh it's it's it obviously need versus want uh it's also it's also what our community um needs versus wants uh when i say that uh i think uh actually our brilliant uh uh admit uh how should i call her she's such a uh a right arm up there in lindsey um kind of i asked her to look at him and give me some thoughts and and she uh she was funny she went to the citizen survey and she had some different like how high playgrounds are rated like you know even uh kind of external programming that's out there um in terms of somehow some of the ways that our citizens think so it's kind of a direction i wasn't going in um well you know i'm i'm gonna obviously i think there's more to learn here i think with the fire stations there's a way a lot more to learn and understand the conditions and you know the need for replacement there's certainly more to understand about synergies when we talk about storage and where to keep vehicles all vehicles i mean i think we need to think about the synergies that we can do um i will you know i will highlander pool to is number one signature project if i had the only vote but i don't but that was a signature project last time for the last decade and it didn't happen and now we have a broken down pool that hasn't been opened all summer and that is unacceptable and we have let the pool go and go and go and now we're in crisis so to me that is number one uh project that was supposed to have been done last decade and we have got to make it the priority for next decade um so some other some other thoughts of mine obviously affordable housing is of course i think seed money to something extremely important always top the list of our citizens top the list of the country um so keeping seed money there for that is it's uh small potatoes in a game that means a lot of uh extra investment by others um a couple of the others playground again i brought that up and i think when you go to need versus want our pavement management our bricks i i i put bricks and pavement management together because they're just our streets how do we take care of our streets and that has to be a priority that's key infrastructure that you know we get commentary about all the time you know can we put more into it so i think that's that's huge and i do think our fleet building uh i want to take a look at that too but i know we've talked about that a long time but that probably isn't going to last the test of time and maybe that's dual purpose that it uh it's strengthened for other equipment um so just some of my thoughts um got a lot of little leaguers that run through little league i mean concession stand that's been there forever that needs to be in some way um restructured so i think there's some great projects in here and there's a there's a lot to look into in terms of other things so um so that we can kind of get the numbers down but i appreciate you guys and i and i actually panelist trail i i kind of think that should be the county doing it but i think doing partnership money with them um is great so and seeing if we can kind of get that thing moving so um yeah those are my comments got it very good thank you public input oh i'm sorry yes is there anyone in the public that wishes to speak on this issue seeing none i will close public input thank you very much michelle and um okay so i think that's it for that one you know on that note jennifer before we do kind of close out what is the status of the pool since it's way we thought it was going to be open in june then end of june now it's into july i'd like to understand the status of the pool tony mulkey parks and recreation director so the the pool uh we're waiting apart to fix a pump we have it clear we have it balanced we're just not getting enough flow to turn over the water enough to meet health code uh we had to have the pumps replaced this year after after we we had a flood that that damaged the previous pumps uh the new pumps had to be specially sourced because the infrastructure with the the pool is old and it's not a supported configuration anymore so it's kind of difficult to source those parts they they uh did install the the replacement motors and one of them failed so we're awaiting the the service on that it's taking a little while to get the part how much have we put into it uh currently this year i'm gonna say probably around 80 000 uh maybe a little higher on on a few items on there but uh we we do have some additional work scheduled for the off season just to make sure we're compliant with health codes and to get us through to the construction of the new pool and then you're going to be showing us kind of cost benefit of how we're going to keep this thing going so we can actually do it and do a new pool okay that'd be great you'll do that during the budget all right that's good okay thanks tony appreciate it i just feel bad for the little kids it's so hot out there and i mean the little ones can go in the little kids pool right yeah so it's the older but yeah the the the capacity is greatly diminished and we can't really run swim lessons like we would like um there's there's been some outreach and some some um not remote but satellite uh programming that we've been able to accomplish at nearby sites but uh it definitely is a disadvantage this summer yeah i've been told that some of the kids are running around with their little fans because it's just and even though they didn't get a lot of time in the pool they got time in the pool at least once a day makes a big difference yeah makes a huge difference commissioner i would enjoy an update on what we're doing right now relative to what we would be doing ordinarily with a full facility so what programs have you lost what programs are we deferring tell me where we are on that so it generally i i can say that our camp programs you know we're creeping up on halfway through our summer camps uh they they would be utilizing the pool every week we we can't do that so we've we've uh had some alternate programming with with uh like water slides and things like that that they brought out and uh taking them to other pools uh which is an ideal and it is disruptive to the program uh other things is the swim lessons especially the early uh learning to swim type things for the youngest most critical vulnerable population we had to restrict that to a younger age than we would have normally this this uh spring into summer uh as we just didn't have the capacity with the small pool um we were scheduled to start uh general swim lessons on a wider scale uh yesterday we were unable to do that because we we haven't been able to get that part and we've been pressuring the the vendor to kind of source that uh and we're hoping and and um anticipating that'll be very soon the the water is at least clear it looks like split pea soup it looks like uh a swamp for a while and uh the staff has done a great job of being able to turn that over we just need to be able to have that capacity um other elements we don't we don't have aqua fitness we don't have uh a lot of the other kind of open swim opportunities for the community now hopefully as everything progresses we'll we'll be ready for the fall swim season for the schools and and we'll be able to have that fall season as as scheduled uh thank you uh that's very quick and uh accurate i think that we might want to put this up for a work session at some point in the future so we can see what our choices are we just don't know where our money is going to come from for a while but what we can and can't do to keep it going optimally is where my thoughts go so mayor may i i mean that's the cost benefit analysis that we're going to bring to all of you as part of the uh as part of the budget process yes right i mean i don't know what our options are you know obviously i'm not sure that brings the attention to this particular problem well enough it can get lost pretty quickly inside a budget analysis i'm i may be asking for something a little bit more than that okay so we can put it on a regular workshop we've got those because it is i mean yeah when i found out yesterday it was still closed i'm just like like oh my gosh i mean just i just remember year after year how much those kids it's part of the camp and to not have a pool when it's so hot it's so devastating and and again it's not not not your fault tony i mean we have an old pool that's neat should have been you know dealt with you know 10 years ago so yeah it's been compounded by multiple challenges if it was one element it'd be a lot easier but you fix one thing and something else breaks yep yep got it that's a good question sure go ahead so i'm i'm wondering i'm just trying to think of ways to because i you know the in four years ago when i came to the commission and got the tour of the pool it was readily apparent to me that there was no more amount of duct tape that could hold this thing together and uh and i and it's it's understandable because the pool was built in the 70s and you know it it is it's but probably a lot of that the infrastructure is obsolete but i'm just curious uh you know because i've i um i i swim with a couple of groups in clearwater and uh i've got to know the few people that they're in the pool that the pool world there but have we reached out to them at all to see if there's any element of assistance that we can get with regards to the obsolescence part of this we haven't uh necessarily reached out to like the swim team groups on that well i i would go more probably the parks and rec yeah yes there there's been communication i know um our aquatics uh coordinator has reached out to some other areas to try especially with the engagement of vendors we've had a lot of vendors just say no yeah well then it's not you know it's i mean yeah uh understandable uh yeah i in case in point the long center which just recently is completing a huge renovation was in very similar shape their their infrastructure built in the 70s not you know anyway but uh i i'm just just thinking out loud and appreciate the response good tips thank you anybody else yeah thank you thanks tony thank you we won't kill the messenger um okay um so anything else for the good of the order okay well i just want to since i won't be here thursday night vice mayor will be running the meeting i will be with florida league of mayors um i did just want to thank everybody involved with hometown usa i thought it was exceptional um our parks and rec staff um all the other staff there's so many people involved even julie's back there and from the sheriff's department and she was involved with the parade and vfw with the with the golf cart parade and jessica freeman who does a fantastic job um i mean i just every level it was great and the the um you know the level of the band at the stadium the kids stuff seeing the kids faces get painted the movie um and then just a packed house for the fireworks the fireworks are great found out after the fireworks that the music was well i knew the music was great and i found out our wreck and parks director did the music to go along with the fireworks which i thought was a a great side talent i love that multi-talented multi-talented so that's awesome but i just i since i won't be able to say it um on thursday i just wanted to say it was a great 250th america celebration and in our wonderful community of dunedin so thanks to all the people that made it happen thank you and pass that on to all your staff tony please yeah anybody else okay so i think yeah yeah if you don't mind one i think and i think mayor i think the entire commission echoes your comments on on the 250 we did do a great job but just wanted to acknowledge the cd dunning pipe band uh who went to ireland to compete in the all ireland competition and they got best drum corps they got best midsection and they got uh best uh m and d which is uh march and dress but overall they came in second so they are second in for all the bands that competed in the all ireland and that really frustrated them angered them which maybe is what they need as they look towards uh the worlds in in august in glasgow so my congratulations to the city dunning pipe band uh well played and we'll look forward to results in glasgow thank you awesome and and did you have any anything else for the good of the order okay so um and thank you noah for being here place of jen today and we we will we are we are now going to go i know we should have had some really tough legal question for you but um so uh so i'm going to adjourn the meeting and then we're going to go back to have some birthday cake for uh vice mayor you