CITY COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING - Feb 25, 2025

Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the February 25th, 2025 City Commission special meeting. I'm going to call this meeting to order, and I'm going to start out with Jen over here to do the pledge and an invocation, or the reverse order, invocation and pledge. As we begin this meeting, let us bow our heads and take a brief moment of silence and reflection. Amen. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Glad to see everybody out here, and we obviously only have one item, and that is the Dunnean Marina update and discussion, and we're going to start with the staff presentation, and I'm going to hand that over to Jennifer. Yes. Good evening, and thank you, Mayor, Vice Mayor, and Commissioners. I'm going to frame what we're going to be talking about this evening during the course of our PowerPoint presentation, and then we have the subject matter experts talking about specifics. Before I do that, Mayor, if I may, I'd like to introduce some of the staff members. That'd be great. Yeah, and the consultants and contractors who are here today. Every one of them will have a small piece of the PowerPoint presentation, so, and they'll come to the table when it's their turn to present. So, first of all, as far as staff goes, if you don't mind, I'll introduce staff first. We have Jorge Quintas, our deputy city manager, whose timing is always so exquisite. Nan Bennett, who is our director of utilities and engineering. Is she here? Oh, sorry, Nan. Oh, I take off my glasses there for reading. There you are. We have Michael Handoga, who's our deputy fire chief and fire marshal. Michael, in the back there. We have Clay Watkins, our assistant director of utilities and engineering, and also our city engineer. There's Clay. Thank you. Les Tyler, our director of finance. His slides are toward the very end, and so he will be along. And, of course, Lori Ferguson, our harbor master. And helping us this evening, we have a number of consultants and contractors. We have Tim VanderWalker. Tetra Tech is our new project manager. Tim, put your hand up. Everybody say hello to Tim and be nice, okay? Everybody, come on. Hello, Tim. Welcome, Tim. We're glad you're here. We have Bruce Furman from Tetra Tech. He's actually virtual, I believe. Do we have our Zoomers online? Maybe not. Okay. We have Obrey Haudricourt. Did I say that right? Oh, close enough. Thank you. He's McKim and Creed, our electrical engineer, and they examined our pedestals. We have Chris Dolan from Marina Electrical, and he's also virtual, correct? So I'm hoping... There we go. Are they up there? Yeah, it's up. Oh, behind me. Okay. There's Bruce Furman. Chris Dolan, sorry. Yeah, Marina Electrical, the equipment manufacturer. They did field investigations as well. We have... I'm just going to announce you, Rob, if you don't mind. Rob Buell, who does not have a speaking part today, but is a source of information for all of us. And also this evening, I'm going to ask that the members of the Marine Advisory Committee please stand up. Thank you very much. I didn't mean to call all of you out specifically, but actually I did. But you've been working really hard on this, and I know that you've been making some difficult assessments and decisions, and I really appreciate all of the work that you've done to date. So... And there's going to be more work to be done, I'm sure. This evening we have put together a detailed PowerPoint for the City Commission. And one of the things that I want to be very clear about, and you'll see it as we go through the presentation this evening, and we have some of our staff members and consultants talking about what we've done, is that there's been a lot of intellectual work done. There's been a great deal of paperwork done. There've been a lot of inspections in the marina and those types of things, and you don't often see that physically as making progress. But I think you're going to be impressed as we go through this evening with some of the gains that we have made since we actually returned to slightly normal operations, which will be back in December. We did have a City Commission meeting that was very similar to this on December 19th, where we gave you an update on the marina. This is, by the way, a special meeting. It's duly noted to the City Commission. We can ask for consensus direction. We can even ask for motions from the City Commission, or you may wish to make them as you are so moved throughout the evening. So before I turn it over to Clay, as I said, I'm going to describe what we're going to do. We are going to, first of all, discuss the progress that we've made for the marina recovery. February 28th was the deadline to vacate the marina. We have made, as I said, good progress, great progress on fire suppression, on electrical, and have specific times and dates that we believe we'll be able to return to illumination within the basin of the marina and fire suppression. And so that vacate day has been rescinded, and the boats, the vessels that are there for storage may remain there. And then we're going to talk a little bit about repopulating the marina later on in the presentation. You did approve the project manager scope and fee on the 20th of February, which is why Mr. VanderWalker is here this evening. We have made progress on bulkhead design, and Clay's going to talk about that. Inspections completed to date. We're going to give you a description of those. Updates on fire suppression and electrical systems. We're going to give you a summary on the electrical inspection report. The summary is very detailed, and I apologize to the commission for that and those in the audience. But it does, we are directly addressing some of the comments and concerns that we've heard regarding electrical in the marina, and I think it's important that we touch upon some of those points. We're going to give you cost estimates for pedestal repairs and replacement. We're going to discuss reopening the marina, and we're going to talk about cost estimates for repairs to stabilize the marina. We have, in Tetra Tech's words, actually a damaged asset that we need to stabilize. We're going to talk about what that's going to take and how much we believe we need to spend. We're going to outline public access to the peninsula, the boat ramp, and the pier. We're going to talk about returning Dunedin youth sailing and windlasses to their spot on the peninsula. Discuss options on bringing vessels back to their slips and timeframes. Discuss fixed versus floating docks. And yes, we're going to have to get back to that again, because we need to have a direction moving forward in those terms. Timeline estimate for the phase reopening of the marina, and the marina revenues and expenditures as well. And Les will give you a description of that. That's going to be a very high-level review. Les and I are continuing to work on the enterprise fund to populate those numbers post-hurricanes. And there is a lot of detail involved in that, as you can imagine. Mayor, as we go through the PowerPoint presentations, if it's all right with you, I'm going to identify areas where we will be looking for consensus direction from the City Commission at some point this evening, whenever it is that you'd like us to kind of zero in on those things for consensus direction. Yeah. In thinking about that, it might make sense that as we go through those categories, I think there's like four different areas that you want, that we get our questions asked and answered. But maybe we don't get into giving a consensus vote until we hear, you know, get citizen input, that kind of thing. And then I can come back and just do the four items and get a... Does that sound good to the rest of the Commission? Very good. So when we get to those areas... I didn't want to wait and have motions on everything and all of a sudden we have everybody come up after the fact. Right. It doesn't seem kind of right. Okay. Very good. So at that point, though, I'll just identify those areas that we're looking for consensus and we'll just go on. Yeah. So I think as you go, though, we'll get our questions answered. Right. But we'll wait on consensus till the end. Okay. Very good. I've spoken enough. I'm going to hand this over to Clay. Go ahead, Clay. Good evening, Mayor, Vice Mayor, and Commission. Clayton Watkins, the Assistant Utilities Director and City Engineer. I'm just going to give a couple brief updates on what inspections have done. The update on the replacement of the bulkhead and what we're moving forward with at this time. So you approved the design contract for Kimley Horn at the July 21st meeting. They are in the process of permitting. They have submitted permits to the EP and to Army Corps. Those all went in early this morning. So we have started the permit process with an estimated timeline of about two months until we obtain those. So that's sort of just the general update on where we stand on the bulkhead. We're in design and we've submitted permits and we're hoping to have everything in about two months. Then we'll start the bid process. So as you look at the updated schedule, we still are on track to have a solicitation out in April of this year. Just to give a brief rundown of all the inspections that have occurred at the marina since the damage at Milton and Helene. Like we know, the structural inspection was held on October 16th by Kimley Horn with their final report that was received to the city in December of 2024. The city had their insurance inspection on November 21st. Our electrical inspection by Ogree was conducted on December 6th and the 9th with us receiving their final report last week on December 17th. FEMA has been on site three times on January 16th, 22nd, and the 23rd with a follow-up inspection mostly just to look at the bulkhead at the north 180. That is Thursday the 13th of March. That'll be their final inspection at the marina. We've had two consultants take two, excuse me, two fire inspections done. One by Piper Fire and one by Pie Barker. Excuse me, Piper's was done on January 20th and Pies was done on February 6th. And using those two, from those two fire inspections and they've both provided quotes and we had two other fire contractors who came back telling us that they do not do this type of work. So we were able to move forward with a purchase requisition and a purchase order that is in process now to get the contractor out to go and start the construction on that. They would be looking to do B and C first because those are easily accessible. The part of Dock A that needs to be stabilized would need to be fixed prior to the suppression system because that's where a good portion of the damage on Dock A is. We've also had, as we introduced earlier, Bioelectric do a lot of work out on the electrical system to try to get basically the, what we would basically call the distribution portion of the system up and running. So the electrical panels, they have gone through the process of cleaning all of the panel boxes, the bus brushes, the switch gears, the terminals. They basically are down to actually from conversation from just a little bit ago and we can possibly, Lori might be able to correct me. I think actually to this point in time, I think they're just a few breakers away from sort of finalizing their initial work and there's a chance that we actually might have power to the stadium lights by as early as maybe tomorrow evening. So I think they're wrapping up a lot of that work and we'll be getting real close to finalizing the, at least the distribution system so we can look at, see what is going wrong with, if there's any issues with the light poles at the peninsula and at the commercial dock. So with that, I'm going to turn over to Obrey to give his evaluation, his summary from the electrical evaluation. My name is Obrey Hodricourt. I'm from McKimmon Creed. Is it on? Okay. My name is Obrey Hodricourt. I'm from McKimmon Creed. As you can see, this is the area that I inspected of your equipment. I went through and removed all the panels, took pictures inside, checked the different connections and got pictures of actually where the water line was in many of the panels. Long button. Okay. Sorry. You can see here some of the equipment that I encountered that was damaged from the wave, it looks like, probably pulled this stuff off their mountings. And this is the type of panels that we have. It's a collection of between what they call NEMA rated panels. That's pretty much the National Electrical Manufacturers Association. That is the standard that all electrical enclosures use. There are various types of those. They range from interior to exterior type and to submerged. You have a combination of what they call 3R and 3RX and 4X panels. The X meaning that it is corrosion resistant. It doesn't have anything to do with the actual ingress of water. Where that comes into play is the number, which for 3 is a standard enclosure that can basically take care of rain. That's why the R is there. And then the 4, which is also a little more robust from a water intrusion standpoint. Neither one of these are submersible though. This is the interiors of some of your equipment. You can see I measured basically where the water lines were. They averaged around 45 inches from the grade. Again, more damaged pedestals. These are the pedestals. Let's see. These are basically, we pulled off all the covers, looked inside. The pedestals, even though they're rated at NEMA rating, it's the outlets and the switches inside the breakers that are not rated for, they're rated for weather, but not for water. You can see again, there's some pictures here, more of the, just the debris that you can see filled the whole interiors of these. This is a table basically comparing the different ratings of panels and what they can and cannot withstand. As you can see, the 3s and can take care of basically light splash, splashing and rain and snow and, and some sleet. And then as you get into the corrosive type of panels, then you have the X types. The S means for, like, sleet. And basically the idea is that you can have ice to freeze on the equipment and you still will be able to operate it. And as you get up even higher, you get into the 6 and 6P. These are the submersible type enclosures. As I said, these are different aspects of each of the, of the panels and their NEMA ratings. You can see that the, it's basically for 3R, it's just for rain and sleet and snow. And then X is the, it, it gives you some degree of corrosion resistance. And the, the S panel is for when ice forms, you can operate the system. NEMA 4, same idea, except it's a little bit more robust from a water intrusion standpoint. You can get hose directed water without a problem. And then with 6 and 6P, you have the ability to be submerged for an extended period of time. And there is a, sorry, there is a separate designation if you're using power washing. That's a different type of panel also. NEMA 250 is the testing requirements that these panels go through. All panels that are rated for outdoors initially get a 600 hour test of their enclosure material. So basically they, they test the material against an ANSI standard type of the same material. And then for corrosion type ones, they give an additional 200 hours of salt spray. And when it's compared to another ANSI standard type. Generally, these are stainless panels that, that, that these are used for. Also, this is just basically talking about what they do. So for a NEMA 3R, you have a one hour spray at, at approximately one inch per hour, at an angle of up to 15 degrees from the vertical. So basically you use a vertical line, you go 15 degrees and that's what it's been tested for. RX is the same thing, except it has the 200 hour corrosion test. 4 allows for a nozzle, a one inch nozzle sprayed at about 12 feet away at 65 gallons per minute. And that's about 60 to 75 PSI. And 6P is tested such that it can be six feet underwater for 24 hours. So the summary is that basically the wiring that you have is rated for wet locations. It's, I believe it's THWN, some of it's XHWN. The W is the important part. So these, this wire can, since it is rated for wet locations, you, it's allowed to be reused by the NEMA recommendations. Obviously you have to make sure it's cleaned and should, and, and should be megared. And that, basically what that does is, is a testing method that then tests the insulation of the wire. The appendixes in the report talk about the, the NEMA appendix and appendix A talks about how, how to recondition panel boards and switchboards. It refers to manufacturer's recommendations, which is appendix B. This is from Schneider Electric or Square D. It suggests reconditioning by qualified personnel. And it depends on the age and the contamination level of the water and the length of time. The pedestals, the enclosures are rated, as I said, for, for rain and for corrosion. However, the components are not. And so your panel, this was a, from the submittal that we got, um, about one of your, the panels that you have out there. And it's clearly says it is a 3R weatherproof enclosure, which is normal. That's not anything wrong with that. It's just that the, like I said, the enclosure is the rated part of it. The interior components are, or the, or the other part. So what do you go from here? So we're for, for mitigation purposes and thinking about the future, um, obviously getting it out of the zone of flooding is, is, is the best thing. Um, I've suggested a couple of different ideas. One is to build a small enclosure electrical building where you see on the, on the right and, or refurbishing the marine office building, uh, with its own electrical room. That's a little more entailed because the building itself, I don't know it's, it's, it's a rating as far as from hurricane and that sort of thing. Good evening, mayor, commissioners, vice mayor, Lori Ferguson, harbor master. Um, with all of the discussions that we've had about the pedestals, whether they should be replaced or refurbished, uh, we were in contact with our current manufacturer, uh, regarding, uh, the procedure to do that and the cost effectiveness. So refurbishing the pedals comes at a cost and it's not cost effective when you look at replacing all of the parts individually and it takes twice as long in labor to replace those parts. So the quote that was provided for us when replacing just the parts was $1,852 a pedestal, but the labor is twice as much as installing a new already assembled pedestal. So, uh, in the end, um, just from this particular brand, refurbishment of those pedestals would be about $228,000 and replacement of those pedestals would not be a whole lot more. We're looking at about 230. We, of course, would get quotes on, on other, um, types of pedestals as well. So this is just from our current, our current pedestal manufacturer. Um, if you look at replacing the parts, uh, you can face supply chain issues. There could be delays on that. You can't rebuild a pedestal until you have all of the parts. So if you're missing one part, it's a delay. Um, the full pedestals when ordered new can be ordered within two to five weeks following commission's approval for the purchase of those pedestals. Uh, also when refurbishing the pedestals, they would not be warrantied and they would no longer be UL listed. So, uh, they would come with a liability. And as far as installation of those pedestals, um, uh, the person or the company installing those pedestals would also not warranty them. Mayor, this is one of the points of what you're looking for, a consensus direction from all you after, uh, public input. Our recommendation from our, um, electrical engineer and from staff is to replace the pedestals fully moving forward. So, um, again, what we can, we can, uh, touch on that when we. Right. So, so what I'd like to do again is get all our questions on this issue and then we'll go to the next issue, ask our questions on that issue. When we're done with all the issues, then we get citizen input and we go back and we take, you take issue and get motions. So if that's good, we'll start with commissioner Walker on this issue, the question. Uh, thank you, mayor. And I, just to be clear, um, I'm assuming we're, we've got, we're, we're going to ask our questions from the beginning of this presentation to this point, right? Yes. Okay. Correct. Thank you. All right. Um, actually, the first question I have, I think probably answered later in the brief, but, um, if not, what, what are we defining? And first of all, thank you for the presentation. Um, it's, it's very comprehensive. Um, definition of the stabilization. Uh, commissioner, if I may, we, we, we can describe that later on. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Very good. Thank you. We'll give you a good description. We'll give you a good description. Okay. Don't drink water and talk at the same time. It doesn't work because that's the next area, right? That's the next. Yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you. Um, so on the replacement, the recommendation to replace, is that with the three series, three R, three X or higher? Replacing them as is would be on the three R. Um, I don't believe that there are pedestals made that are four. That is what, uh, and Chris Dolan from MEE is on the line. Uh, he said there are none on the market that are rated four. Okay. Uh, that is correct. Uh, there are no greatest standpoint on the market that are based out of anything higher than three R or three R X. Your current pedestals as they're quoted now and also the ones that are out in the facility are currently three R X highest rating that's available. Okay. Thank you for that. Um, okay. As, uh, per the fact that we'll be talking about the stabilization and the sequencing plan later, I'll defer my other questions. So thank you. Commissioner Dugard. Thank you, mayor. Um, if these are three R and I'm, I want to be clear, which that is three R three R X, because there's some aspects of that that are important. These are three R. These will not be, um, capable of prolonged submersion. Is that correct? That is correct. There, there are no current pedestals or receptacles slash circuit breakers on the market that are capable of submersion for more than a few seconds before there's damage to the internal components. So if we have another event like we had at the Marina, we'll be replacing pedestals again. Is that correct? Yes, sir. If you have a storm to the same magnitude that you had before, they would need to be replaced again. Okay. And as we're kind of restricted to the replacement or refurbishment of the pedestals due to the cost factors and if there are no higher levels, uh, I think I have all I need. Thank you. Okay. Vice mayor. Thank you, mayor. Um, can I ask if, if the highest ratings available are three R three R X, why did we read? That's almost being very mean to talk to us about four, four X. I thought the same thing. I thought the same thing. And then go, oh, I'm sorry. Those aren't available. They don't exist. The, the four, the four R are your panels, the electrical panels. Those are your four R's and your four X's that are in the system. One, one percent correct. Anything that needs to be plugged into or out of by a, um, what you would consider a non-technical person, like a voter trying to plug their receptacle in, those would need to be accessible. So that's why you have the three R and three R X higher than anything else. The four X six P any of those devices, those are not intended to be into or out of on a daily basis. Okay. I understand a little bit more now. So thank you for that. Great question. Just a little bit more. And that right. If the three R X are the highest rating available, there's commissioner to guard asked, um, they can potentially be damaged in the next storm. Is FEMA aware of this? And I don't want to get to a point where FEMA says, well, we already placed them once. We're not going to do it again. So is, is that, is that a risk or a threat for FEMA? Yeah. Bruce, uh, Furman is virtual. Bruce, are you able to answer that? Uh, yes. Yes. Uh, commissioner, uh, or vice mayor, I apologize. Um, so FEMA, these were damaged elements that you have. The goal of the program is to get you back to the day before the evening. Uh, so they would replace them here. Um, if possible, then they're going to ask going forward that the city carry a level of insurance on those. So, um, forgive me. I have a little ignorance on that piece because I'm not quite sure if those individual pedestals can be, um, insured or if those are insurable assets. Um, I have someone on the team I can get with specifically about that. Um, so, so the way it would work again is FEMA would reimburse you now, um, to, for the repairs or the replacements that you're going to elect to do here. And then going forward, if you can insure those, they would expect you to cover insurance there. If there were any shortfalls above, beyond that, they would also then step in and help. If for some reason you couldn't get insurance on it again, and if it's a federal declared disaster, then FEMA would, you know, uh, help in and try to support again. I hope that provides something. Okay. Thank you. And I really don't know where that would fall into play. If we need to get new pedestals, almost what happens next storm is irrelevant, right? If we're already getting the best we can, it's on the market. Um, that's all that I have. Thank you, Mayor. Okay. Commissioner Sandbergen. You know, we've heard about the, that range of, from the threes to the sixes. I don't think we've ever seen a price difference. Have we? Have we ever seen pricing on those? No, only because we were looking at the pedestals only for repair. The stuff that was in the 4R systems, the, the, the panels with the electric, most of those, um, we've been able to either clean or just repair out, replace out the breakers. Okay. Another thing that's been worked on since day one has been that fire suppression. I understand two contractors bid it. We're, I know we were holding out for more. Is that bidding now closed? Yes. We should be, I would assume we're processing the PO right, right now. Okay. Between that, was it, did Piper come in with the best? That is who we are going with. Yes. Okay. That's all. A PO, just for everybody's knowledge, is a purchase order. That's all right. Sorry. Okay. That's all I had, Mayor. Thank you. Um, so my question would be, if we got all new, uh, pedestals, um, and what do we say in five weeks, we could have them two to five weeks. We actually get them after commission approval of the purchase. And then where would we, would we put them on the docks immediately on every dock? We will have to bid out the actual installation of the pedestals. So at the same time, once, once we have, uh, gotten approval, we will bid out the installation itself. We're going to owner purchase the pedestals. Uh, there's a cost savings with that, um, as well as a sales tax savings. Let me elaborate. Go ahead. We're planning on owner direct purchase, get the lowest quote that we can from the manufacturer, do an owner direct purchase, which means that we save on the tax and other savings on the pedestals if we have consensus direction to move forward this evening later on. Okay. But then, okay. So two to five weeks, but again, so that, then how long does it take to get who's going to install it? And then when it, when are we thinking we'd install them and would we install them at all the docks? Depending on the bid process, the gentleman behind me would come in with 20, did you say? With about 20 men. So how long is the bidding? So, so the purchasing process, we, we have to be very careful here, um, as we go along. I mean, we would have to go out, uh, to bid on the installation of, of those pedestals. A low bidder, lowest responsible bidder, responsive bidder would get the job. And then we would issue a, a, a, a notice to proceed on that. And then as Mr. Buell said, uh, four days after they, they're, they're fully, um, activated on site. So, so, okay. So my two questions still are, we're looking at two to five weeks to get them. How long, then when, and how long would it take to bid for the installation person who's going to install them? 90 days. How long do you think? I, I mean, generally speaking, we, it would take 30, it's a 30 day, it has to be out roughly for 30 days. It's going to be out on the street for 30 days. Once that closes, then we have to bring it to you for your approval for that award of that contract. The way we would probably run it at that same time, we would also then bring with you the purchase, the, the approval for the purchase, the pedestals. So then that way they can be, we can try to time up the purchase of the pedestal and the delivery to the actual contractor who is awarded the bid, and then they can start the install. So I know you're being careful with time, but again, I'm trying to see when you, using all reasonable expediency, when do we really think we'd have them and we'd have the person that would install them? Yeah. You're probably around 90 days. Right. 90 days, Mayor. That's as good as it gets, even though it only has to be out 30 days. It's 60 to 90 days. Right. We will push it as hard as we can. Because based on what you're saying, it just, it feels like it could be 60. Yeah, it's probably close. Right. Because if you have to have it out for 30 days, you got to get it to us. Then we got to, there's a protest period. Then we have to check references. Although if some contractors, we already know, and we won't thoroughly invest it. And then it's the time frame to get in front of you. But I do have no doubt that I'm speaking. I think I could speak for my colleagues. We'd do a special meeting. I mean, we don't want to be the holdup for approval. So yeah, but I get your due diligence. We could do a special or, I mean, not that we want to do a start item, not that I'm getting looks, but you know, we could try to speed that up a little bit. And then is it the intention to put them all in right away where they are existing? All 93 would go in. You're asking specifically about ADOC, I believe. ADOC and BDOC, the ones that were most damaged, but they would all get put in. Yes. And we wouldn't be waiting for something else before we put them in. I'm sorry? We wouldn't be waiting for anything else to do with the marina before we put them in. No. No, I think we can. Because once, once they, I mean, if, when we then go into, if there's a decision made on A and B, once we go to, if we go to construction, you can just pull them up and then they'll just be reused for the new dock. Okay. That was my biggest question. Order them tomorrow. Commissioner Dugard. I'm sorry, but this did not occur to me during my sequence. But the inference I'm hearing, and I need some correction from our experts if I'm wrong, because submersion is a problem for these, does that infer that floating docks are superior because that would prevent submersion in many cases? Yes. Yes. So thank you, Commissioner Dugard. When you were done with your questions, I was going to ask for the floor for a moment. The floating dock and the full submersion, those two, they go together. And we're going to discuss that more fully when we talk about floating docks as well. That's great. Yeah. Okay. So thank you for that. May I matter? Sure. Commissioner Timber. I was out there today. Some of these are mounted on the concrete and some of them are on the docks. Can water enter from the bottom? Because of those that are on the docks, obviously that's open underneath. Yes. Yes, they could. It has to get to the height of the components to do the damage. So if we had, again, that would revert back to floating docks, would cause some protection to that? Okay. That's all I had. Great. And so two commissioners have had a chance. Do you have anything else you want to ask? Yeah, just one. I just want to clarify. If I understood correctly, the four and six series pedestals, those are basically not really for day or recreational use, right? Those basically require a more intrusive way to connect and disconnect. My understanding, just confirming that. Those are not, they're not pedestals. They're actually power supply panels. Where the four and six X's are. We'll circle back. Okay. All right. Thank you. Yeah, I think there is maybe some confusion between the panels and the panel boxes and the pedestals. That might be why. That was because the O'Brie's conversation was on both of the types that we have in the marina, where the pedestals are the threes and the boxes, the panels are fours. Okay. Okay. Vice Mayor, did you have any other follow-up? Yeah. Just to clarify that these would go in immediately regardless of the status of the docks, right? That they'd go in and then if we still need to replace the dock, then we would pull out the pedestal to replace the dock and replace them. Correct. So we're not waiting on the docks. Correct. Okay. Okay, great. I don't have anything else. So I guess we can move to our next area. Okay. So the timeline that we're looking at for the fire suppression on docks B and C, we're looking at April, May at the latest to get that all wrapped up and completed. We can't do dock A as was mentioned a moment ago until we stabilize dock A. And I'll go into more detail about what it requires to stabilize dock A. So the dock stabilization, we have spoken to a couple of contractors, called a few, not getting, you know, a whole lot of response. But I did have one come out this weekend and he provided us with a quote, which I will get to in a later slide as well. The only thing that I haven't gotten from him is his approximate timeline of when he can actually do the work. So we're going to push to have that done sooner rather than later as well. Then the shore power pedestals, we put on here August. We're hoping that can be done sooner than that. But that's our target date at the latest. The bulkhead, as Clay explained, we're still on schedule for that. And it's looking like that'll be wrapped up in January of 2026. And then of course, dock A and B replacements, we're looking at a year later. So as we reopen in phases, before we return the vessels to their slips, there's some things that have to be done. We have a large, huge punch list to work on to open up the peninsula, which I will get to as well. But in the meantime, we're working on obtaining the quotes from the marine contractors and being able to start that stabilization work. The stabilization of the docks, I know every one of you has been out there. The finger docks were pulled up by boats that were tied during that tidal surge. So there are multiple pilings underneath those finger docks. And the piling at the end was pulled up the farthest, which is why the finger dock now is at an angle pointing to the sky. The center dock was all, or the center piling was also pulled up in those six or seven finger docks. So to repair those, they have to take the dock apart. So they're going to take the dock apart, pound in, jet in, or replace, depending on how the procedure is. The center piling that is the support piling for the finger dock, as well as the end piling, which is the one that is all the way up. And then they will have to put those finger docks back together. So for the finger docks, that is what we need to stabilize. On dock A, we have two pilings in the center that create a little pump, if you will, in the main dock. Those pilings have to be put back as well. And underneath that area is where the fire suppression break is. And it's a substantial break. So before we can repair that fire suppression break, we've got to put those pilings back in. And then repair whatever gets taken apart. There's also at least one piling that is no longer attached to the dock. So they will come in and they will repair that as well. And that should stabilize dock A. There are also a couple of those, I think three of those, those finger piers on dock B. And there's a couple of them on the west wall. So for all of those, we did get a quote, which is my next slide. So I'll talk to you about that quote in just a second. But the fire suppression system repairs, as soon as we get the purchase order, we're going to go ahead with the repair of the fire suppression system on dock C. Dock B just has a minor leak. We'll be able to fix that as well. As for the slip renters returning, we're going to update their user agreements, their applications. A lot of our information is out of date. A lot of you have been in there for years. So we want to make sure we have the most up-to-date information. And we also want to update some deficiencies in our own user agreement because it hasn't been redone since 2017. So now's a good time to do that. So once the the docks are stabilized and the user agreements have been completed and approved, the vessel owners will then be granted access to their slips. And we are looking at July to be able to complete all of that. With the stabilization costs for all of those docks, you'll see on the chart that there's a total of $101,500. We are pretty confident we're going to be able to get that done for substantially less than that. So we were shooting high, but I did get a quote on the stabilization of all of the things that I just explained. And it is for less than $30,000. So that was really good news. If there are other costs that are incurred, things that are found when they pull apart that dock, you know, I'd be safe to say 40. It's half. It's half of what we estimated at least. So as far as when we put vessels back into the marina. So before you move on, Laurie, I'm sorry. Mayor, we're going to be asking you for consensus direction for expenditure of the funds to stabilize the docks, too. And Laurie's going to talk about storage versus operations. We did have good news this morning. We did talk to Tetra Tech on the phone. And this is eligible for FEMA funding. So we're going to move forward. Given consensus direction, we'll be moving forward. If there's something in here that we may not feel is FEMA eligible, we'd like your permission within the scope of that $101,500 is to just go ahead and move, you know, forward with stabilization. So but after questions and public input, we can go get into that. So go ahead, Laurie. Sorry about that. So we can basically, we have two ways to handle the returns of the vessels. One is we bring vessels back and bring them back as they are currently for storage only. And the benefit to that would be that some of them would no longer have their vessels in their yards or at other locations on trailers. And there would be less foot traffic to be concerned about around restricted areas in the marina. If we bring the vessels back for recreational use, the benefits are that they, of course, get to use their vessels. The marina fund gets to collect fees. The nearby businesses get the support of marina users. And the last bullet item was what Jennifer was just speaking of about the FEMA reimbursement. So we did get good news on that today. So for the phasing, we're still continuing as Clay discussed on the bulkhead construction. But it needs to be, you know, made clear that once a contractor gets this job, the contractor takes control of the job site. So it will be necessary to vacate some of the slips when the bulkhead construction begins, depending on how the contractor wants to handle this. But at least the first few slips closest to the bulkhead would have to be vacated. If we have slips available in the marina that fit those boats, we'll just relocate them. And access to the docks during that construction would be restricted. So there will be a portion of the dock missing when the bulkhead construction begins. So the boaters would not be able to access their boats unless dinghies provided taxi service. So for dock A, replace- Lori, can I jump in real quick on that? Sorry. But with that, we would put the construction, we would put in our documentation on our bid that we would set it to be phased. So it wouldn't be, it would be like one dock at a time, not all of them at one time. Thank you. But slip renters can anticipate some interruption in the use of their boats. For dock A replacement, at some point when that dock gets reconstructed, the boats will have to vacate and dock B will follow suit as well. The boats will have to vacate. I don't anticipate having enough empty slips to be able to accommodate everyone to stay in the marina during that construction. But again, that will depend on how the contractor that is doing the job manages the construction of those docks and what the type of docks are that you give us consensus direction to move forward with. So we included in this, again, for refreshment of the discussion prior, the pros and cons for fixed docks. Is this the next thing, though? This is the next thing. Yes. So should we, let's take a break and ask questions for you? Sure. Okay. I thought of everything. Okay. So, so as we looked at the stabilization issue, I'm sticking to that. Does anyone have any questions? I'll start with the vice mayor this time on the stabilization issue that they've gone through too. Thank you, mayor. You just want to get a clarification about the FEMA conversation and then it looks like that FEMA will allow for helping us stabilize. But my question is, does that hinder our ability to work with FEMA on the replacement of the docks or do they consider that done? No, that was the good news we got this morning. It does not hinder our ability to work with FEMA for the replacement. So my concern was, and I voiced it to the Marine Advisory Committee last week, was that if we stabilize the docks up to an operational status, then FEMA would consider it fixed and you're off and running. My understanding is we're going to stabilize a damaged asset up to operational status and that FEMA would still reimburse up to replacement of that dock. Okay. And that's, I'm going to allow for that. That's right. I'm going to allow you to clap for that. I'll clap too. That's great. Can I just say that's the first time that's ever happened when I spoke in this contest. That was good. That's it. I'm leaving. No, I'm just kidding. And that, and that is whether or not the boats are back from the marina for storage or recreational use. Yes. Either one. Okay. Thank you. That's all I have. So correct me if I'm wrong. Where we were looking to budget a little over $100,000, we may be looking at $30,000 to $50,000 for that same? For stabilization? Yeah. Yes, correct. Wow. And that we, we haven't seen that number, have we? We haven't seen that proposal? I have one. Okay. And is it from a qualified contractor? I know we've ran into that issue before. It is. It is actually a Pinellas County contractor that I am waiting to confirm if it is a contract that we can piggyback on. Well, you got us all in. No, we're all excited to hear. One last thing, Lori. Have you had a chance to work with our new project manager? And if so, has he had any input on this proposal? Tonight's the first night that Tim and I have been in the same room. We did walk the marina when FEMA did their investigation. But no, we're going to meet next week and go over everything we've got. Okay. Because I think he should be brought into the mix on this. Okay. Good. Thank you. Hallelujah. We can't wait to get him started. We have a question for you. Commissioner Walker. Thank you, Mayor. Yeah. So my, the real questions that I have really pertain about the, between the interface of stabilization and dock replacement. And so I'll hold on to that until we're done with this, just so I don't get out of sequence. So I actually, in terms of the stabilization, I think I understand what the scope is. Basically, it's going to be finger dock repairs on C and B, and then big piling repair on dock A. Is that very high level, very, you know? Yeah. C doesn't need any repair. Okay. Other than fire suppression. Okay. So that's what that, that, that figure was for the estimate? Yes. Okay. Got you. Okay. I have no further questions on this. Okay. Commissioner Duggan. Thank you, Mayor. Now, we've got a bunch of dates and numbers flying around here. And I'm sure there are some people in the crowd as confused as I am, but I just want to be sure I have this right. We're looking for stabilization by July, 2025, if everything goes as you're hoping. Yes, we are. Okay. Does that mean all of our docks will be open for A, storage, and B, recreational use, or no? We are pushing for recreational use. Yes. Okay. As I understand it, there will be periods in the future after that, that they will not be available for recreational use due to restoration. Is that correct? Yes. That is correct. Okay. I think I have a clear picture. Thank you, Mayor. So I'm just going to ask that one more time, just so I'm clear. So we're saying by August 2025, full recreational use, that's what we're striving for in the marina? Correct. Yes. Well, okay. So I do have this question. It shows here electrical pedestals, August 2025. So you guys just told me it's 90 days to get the person who installs them, and 90 days would be March, April, and May. So that would mean June of 2025. So instead of 90 days, we've now we're at, you know, an additional 60 days. So what is it? Because obviously, sense of urgency, right? Yeah. No, the August date was a date on not assuming we were doing a direct purchase. So by we doing the direct purchase, we can cut some of that time frame out. Good. So we actually might have full recreational use by June or July. No clapping? I'm just kidding. Sorry. I shouldn't do that because I'll be pounding that pretty soon to say no clapping. Anyway. Okay. Let's see. I think, I mean, one second. I just lost my screen. Okay. No, I think, I think I'm good, too, for that. So if there's no more questions, we'll move to the dock replacement. Okay. So fixed docks. The pros, obviously, stability. They don't move. And they are always at a consistent height. So if your boat, if you're used to your boat being, when you have a floating dock, your boat is always at a consistent height. With a fixed dock, the dock is always at the consistent height. The cons are title challenges, of course, that we've just experienced with the tidal surges and also with the increase in high tides or the extreme low tides. The flood risk and one of the detriments of the fixed dock is that your utilities are always on that fixed dock and they are subject to tidal floods. There's more maintenance with the fixed docks because there are more pilings. We have somewhere between 750 and 900 pilings in the marina right now. So it's a lot of maintenance. Accessibility, you have to use those finger piers. And we all know how wide they are, which is like this wide. And your mooring lines have to be adjusted at all times to compensate for the tidal changes. For the floating docks, resiliency. Putting the pedestals, the shore power pedestals on floating docks will protect them and make them more resilient to the flood levels. There are much fewer piles in the marina with floating docks, which is more environmentally friendly. They are quicker to install and there are less maintenance. So accessibility, there's a ramp down to the floating docks and to the finger docks. So there's no steps to the finger piers. Constant mooring, consistent. Your boat is always at the same level. Longevity, some of those brands can last 50 years and more depending on what we go with. And then your boarding is always at the same level. So there's a lot of consistency there. Some people will have to step down onto their boats. Some will have to go up onto their boats. It just depends on the design of the boat. So not everyone will be able to walk onto their boat just because there's a floating dock. So, and the cons are consistent boarding again, because if you don't like where your boat sits on a floating dock, it's always going to sit there. So you might have to make accommodations for boarding and getting off your boat. The stability is less as far as the movement, but we have a very protected basin. So the heavier duty, the floating docks that we get, the less movement there's going to be. And the maintenance is, there is maintenance. You have to maintain the floats underneath them and do regular inspections. But it is less than with the fixed docks. Cost estimates, we included this slide again for you so that you could look at those cost estimates for the difference between the fixed floating, concrete, aluminum. And if there are any questions on that one. Before we go to questions, if you don't mind, in regards to the fishing pier and the day and rescue docks, we have not talked about that yet. And I think it's really important that we talk. And that's general fund. So it's not enterprise fund. And Jorge wants to talk a little bit about something we're going to need consensus direction for moving forward. Okay. Good evening, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commissioners. We had touched on an earlier slide and it may come up again later in the presentation. But there was a timeline associated with the reconstruction or the repairs to the existing geometry of the fishing pier. That was predicated on following an RFP process, working with Tetra Tech, Tim, to develop an RFP process to put that out for advertisement and the whole procurement scenario that's associated with that. There is an opportunity to compress that schedule and do that sooner if we leverage our existing GEC contracts. So we could issue a task assignment, given the anticipated cost to reconstruct the pier. That still falls within our CCNA procurement thresholds for construction costs and then the associated design fees associated with that. So should the commission want to consider an opportunity to perhaps reconstruct the pier on a shorter time frame? And we think that we could save a good six months. We have discussed this with Tetra Tech. There is the possibility that perhaps the design fee component, much like the discussion that we had when we issued the task assignment for the bulkhead design and permitting, there is the potential that FEMA might come back and say that you did that work within a GEC-procured contract and not another formally advertised RFQ. But we are bringing back to the commission in March updated agreements with our existing GEC contracts. And we are embedding some language in that that would allow us to perhaps leverage FEMA reimbursement. So So all right, I'm sorry, I'm going to ask you to explain to the commission what a GEC contract is. So GEC is our general engineering contracts. We have procured these through regular advertisement. We did an RFQ for this. We had multiple firms submit on different discipline levels, architectural, landscaping, water and wastewater, civil, structural. So we've got, I believe, seven different divisions specializing in the type of work that those firms can do. So we've gone through that procurement process. We've awarded those contracts. They've come to the commission. So staff regularly uses those to issue task assignments, provided that we operate within the CCNA guidelines on the construction threshold dollar amounts, which then ties back to what you can issue a task assignment for based on design fees. So we save time. So we save time, about six months, to be honest. So the conversation and I guess the argument, my recommendation, would be that even if we were at best or at worst not able to recoup whatever that design fee would be, should we issue a task assignment to one of those GEC firms to design putting back the existing peer geometry, right? So we would submit plans to reconstruct the peer where it was previously. We know we had structural issues previous to the two hurricanes. Those would be addressed and we would probably be able to get an exemption on the permitting. So we would accelerate the permitting portion of that work and get all this done. So perhaps whatever that design fee might be at risk for not having FEMA reimbursement. But my argument is, if you push this out six months, you're going to pay more than that design fee if you bid this project out six months later than if you took the risk issuing a task assignment, compressing that ability to bid that work, and then go ahead and get the peer reconstructed so you have some semblance of normalcy back in the basin. Granted, that doesn't address what slip runners are concerned about, but it brings that economic viability back to that area for the businesses that border the marina and the downtown. And it then allows the public to access the marina basin with respect to not being a slip runner, mind you, but being able to access the peer. And then what we would do is, in the future, based on what the master plan recommended, you would then do a formal RFP when we choose to move forward with what the master plan recommended, which was an expansion of the peer and then, you know, having some wave attenuation and that kind of work done in the future because that would be permit intensive to be able to permit wave attenuation and expansion of the peer. But being able to put back the peer where it previously was from a permitting standpoint is a much easier lift than trying to permit a peer expansion in the future, which was in outer years, I believe, in the master plan recommendation anyway. So from a staff recommendation, if the commission so desires to accelerate the peer replacement component of the work, that is an option available to us to do so. Okay. Um, so Jennifer, should we just, um, should we just finish the rest of the presentation totally? And then, then what's left, we can ask, get the questions. There's not much more left. Okay, great. In summary, our next steps would be to complete the electrical, uh, repairs and to open the peninsula. Um, preparing the peninsula for public access. Like I said, there is still some work to do out there. It's not, uh, quite ready. Um, we also want to bring back the windlasses and the DYSA groups as soon as we can, uh, continue with the design permitting and construction of the bulkhead, continue towards securing the contractor for stabilization of the docks. Um, the project manager is on board. Um, he would create the RFQ package for design and permitting of docks A and B and the fishing pier. And we will continue to work within FEMA guidelines. Good evening, mayor, vice mayor, commissioners, Les Tyler, the finance director. I just have a couple of high level, uh, comments to go over. Uh, Jennifer mentioned earlier, uh, I've been working with the city manager on sort of a finance plan for the marina, uh, still working through the numbers, but wanted to just go over a few things with your commission. Um, from, for revenue sources for the, for the marina, you know, basically our estimated storm damage costs are roughly about 11 million dollars right now at the marina. You know, that's kind of a moving target. Uh, we expect that to be reimbursed by FEMA at a 75 percent reimbursement amount, except, uh, we expect 100 percent reimbursement for debris removal costs, but most everything else will be 75 percent. We also expect the state of Florida to pay 12.5 percent reimbursement. Uh, another potential funding source is resilient and mitigation grants that we are looking into as well, uh, through FEMA and other programs. Uh, potential marina, uh, storage, uh, boat slip, uh, rental income or, or full operations boats, uh, boat slip rental income if we, if we go that route. Uh, also general fund for the pier and day dock replacements, uh, that falls in the general fund. Uh, big picture on the, on the expenditure side, the marine expenditures for the repairs for dock A, B, and C, and the bulk, bulk replacement and other storm damage at the marina. We expect to be paid back over the next two-year time frame, roughly, two to three-year time frame. Uh, the way that'll work is the city will pay the upfront cost for for all the damage, and that'll be done by using, uh, we have some general fund reserves that are in excess that we discussed before of close to three million. We have, uh, inter-fund loans that we, your commission approved an inter-fund loan of five million dollars, uh, from the fleet fund to the general fund on January 9th, 2024, uh, establish an inter-fund loan, and, and we may do more of those moving forward. And also, we are looking into an external line of credit or short-term financing that, uh, likely a tax exempt financing for approximately a three-year time frame to assist with paying for the storm damage cost. And then once they're paid for, our expectation, as mentioned earlier, is, is that FEMA will reimburse us at a 75 percent, uh, level for most of the damages, and the state at 12.5 percent, and we expect that the reimbursements would be over a two- or three-year time frame, best estimate. And that concludes my general comments. Thank you. Okay. Uh, great. So, I guess at this point, we'll take, uh, questions, and I think we encompass floating docks, the way we are bidding the peer work, the finances, and anything that just doesn't fit into that category, because you might have something more holistic I know you want to ask. So, I'm going to go to Commissioner Walker. Thank you, Mayor. Um, okay. So, if I understand the timeline, um, stabilization and getting to full operations, the intent of that would be to get us, and this, because I'd asked for this in the last, um, meeting we had, but, uh, you know, there's, there's some risk mitigation here that needs to occur. We want to get to operations as quickly as possible, and the stabilization plan that you put forward looks like that fulfills that part of it. Now, the stabilization part is, is, has got to get us through the hurricane season before we can start the work on the dock replacement. Is that a correct statement? So, that, that's the plan, right? Okay. Yes. Uh, being that the hurricane season is six months out of the year, we're always going to have something going on during the hurricane season, but we're going to, it is our goal, depending on contractor availability, to have those docks stabilized as soon as possible. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Um, regarding the fishing pier, I do want to make sure that the, when we're talking about the fishing pier, are we also talking about the, the, the ferry landing, the proposed ferry landing for the expansion of the Clearwater ferry, uh, to Dunedin? Yes, we are. And, and we're actually, uh, uh, working with a number of different entities to, to rebuild that dock. I know Clearwater ferry is very interested in that Dunedin route. So, we want to take advantage of their interest and our interest. Um, it's so, so as far as whether or not when we go out to, um, um, um, or do the GEC or whatever we do, we really need to make a little bit more progress as far as a ferry and, and concretely landing here in our, here in our marina and what others can help us with as well. So, I need to flush that answer out for you a little bit more, but yes, we are trying to get the, the ferry dock up and running. And because that, that's a, there's a significant economic, uh, impact to that. Um, I think the last study I saw was in the neighborhood of $2 million a year. Um, so. One of the things though, when we talk about the ferry, uh, that we need to consider is that parking because that East bulkhead wall, now we're missing a row of parking there. Uh, so, so, I mean, anytime we talk about the ferry, we have to talk about parking as well. So. Uh, those are all the questions I have. Thanks. Great. Okay. Uh, Commissioner Dugard. Uh, thank you, Mayor. Um, some of the numbers that you just shared with us last that you said we were looking at 11 million, give or take, and it looks like. Yeah, approximately. Yeah. We're going to be responsible for 12.5% of that. So, that's somewhere around 1.35 mil. Is that what we're looking at? Yeah, that's pretty close. Yeah. Okay. All right. Just want to be sure I understand. Well, under the best circumstances, we may have to figure out how to cover. Um, can I go back to the floating dock issue? Certainly. Okay. Just want to be sure it's okay, because I want to be sure. And the mayor said it's okay. It's okay. It is. It's actually within this question. I'm not sure which direction I'm going to get the arrows, so I don't. You're good. Okay. Um, one of the decisions, and by the way, I think all of our decisions should folk focus on stabilization and opening the marina as quickly as possible for everybody. So that's, that's clearly number one, but the decisions after that are going to be involving what kind of docks we want for our marina in the long term. And I wasn't really sure about that for quite a while, but I want to be sure I understand that floating docks, whether they be aluminum or concrete, are superior to stationary docks when it comes to our electric pedestals. Is that in fact the case? Yes, it is. Unless they float away. Well, that's always a risk. Yeah. Yeah. Hold on, everyone. Who's answering that question, city manager? Staff will answer that question in the affirmative. Okay. Yes. Voting docks are better for the pedestals. That's all I need. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Commissioner, I'm sorry, vice mayor. Thank you, mayor. Uh, back to Jorge's comments about the speeding up of that process. We might risk that design cost, but that is made up for by the potential increase in cost if we wait for the original timeline. We feel that's, that would be my recommendation. And I wanted to clarify that if at worst case, if we are at risk on the design fees, if we were to, if the commission were to direct, um, moving forward with a GC task assignment approach, as opposed to a full RFP put out, you know, for advertisement and have multiple firms submit, and then you're having to do a review of qualifications and a selection and then a recommendation to the commission for award, and then negotiate a fee and scope, um, after doing so, that's where we can compress about six months. What is not at risk, should we choose to go the GEC route is the construction component. That would still be advertised with language that would be FEMA compliant, regardless of whether you issued a GEC task assignment or not. So, the only thing that's at risk potentially is the GEC fee component of it, because we would still advertise the construction work to be compliant with FEMA reimbursement. So, may I add to that? Yes, please. So, so one of the things I, I, I think that we need to be very clear about is that, and we did talk to, uh, Tetra Tech about this this morning for, for a period of time, that we believe that the risk isn't that great, because we have gone through a per, a competitive procurement process for that contract, through the, the, our general engineering contract. The city commission has approved those firms, uh, and then, you know, we issued the task assignment. So, the safest way to do this to ensure a hundred, the 75% reimbursement is to go to market. That said, our argument is we've gone to market. We went to market, you know, two, three years ago with the general engineering contract. So, you know, our, as you know, as the city commission is very well aware, we're very clear about this. If there is risk, we're going to tell you there's risk, and have you make the decision, the informed decision moving forward, whether or not you want to accept that risk or not. I believe that the risk is minimal. And, um, um, regardless, we will submit for reimbursement to FEMA. Uh, and if, if they, if they reject it, then we'll fight it, you know, and provide, you know, the, all the, the paperwork that we have in terms of his competitively bid. We entered into agreement with them. Um, they're a company that, that is, you know, responsible, if you will. We've used them before and all those sorts of things. So, I think the risk is minimal, but we have to tell you that there's risk. Thank you, uh, city manager. And so, that design cost, if we don't expedite it and use the, uh, what we have, the design cost doesn't change, right? It would be the construction cost that would change as materials, labor increases. If we advertise it and go through that whole process and six months later, I can't tell you that the design fee wouldn't be higher because typically design fees are based on anticipated construction costs. So, if they anticipate the construction cost to be more, the design fee will be more. So, my argument is you're better off doing it now. Avoid that six-month delay. And if you lose any of that money because it's not FEMA reimbursement, you're going to make it up on the back end because your construction costs are going to be less if you advertise it six months sooner than you would have otherwise. That's my recommendation. Okay. And so, we're just, we don't know what those costs are, as far as the dollar figure goes, all right? But we are going to assume that the rising cost is going to be more than what we would lose. My experience is yes. It comes out in the wash. All right. And then back to the dock and the pier, or the pier, I guess. In addition to trying getting that up and ready and working with the ferry, is there the potential to work in getting a temporary dock or a floating dock that could expedite getting the ferry even faster? Something that's temporary, something that would work? I think if we're going to try to work within the parameters of reconstructing the pier in its previously permitted geometry so that we can get an exemption on the permitting to compress that permitting timeline, if we start to deviate from what was there previously, then that could trigger, well, now you've got a permit, something that wasn't what you had previously. So, there's a bit of a dance there as far as what part of the pier do we put back that was essentially there previously so that we can make the argument that it's a de minimis impact because we're putting back essentially what was there previously that those agencies permitted. Whereas if we start to build that expansion of the pier or the wave attenuation and those kind of things, then that's going to trigger a whole different permit scenario. Well, I wasn't suggesting that we change the design or do anything, just bring in something that's truly temporary. It's a spare dock. Yeah, and actually, PSTA had mentioned it to us. I know that Les has been working with their finance director, although I don't know why the finance directors are working on getting a dock, a temporary dock in there. Not exactly the engineers, but anyway, I guess you are. But they have mentioned it to us. She's from the northeast, so I think she's got extensive documenting experience. That's it then. Yeah, that's it. But she's very impressive and she, you know, like I said, has mentioned it to Les. It's certainly something that we could work on within the parameters of making sure that we can get that fishing pier within the, you know, footprint. If you could do that, please, because yeah, as Commissioner Walker mentioned it, at $2 million economic impact, our downtown would truly say thank you. Absolutely. And so that's all that I have. Thank you. And again, if I could, Vice Mayor, as I mentioned earlier, in March, we're coming back to the commission because we need to extend those existing GEC contracts. And in that process, we're working with the city attorney's office to embed some language that would then make that ability to have that FEMA reimbursement more palatable. And hopefully that's the risk minimization that Jennifer was referencing. Thank you. Commissioner Sandbergen. Thank you, Jorge, for bringing that out. I wish I had known that before. Thank you. It sounds like we've researched every possible avenue for reimbursement, whether it be FEMA, the grants, the state. So we went to the well. We've asked everybody we can. My last question, Lori, if I asked these people sitting behind you, would they want fixed docks or floating docks? I think you're going to get 50-50. Doggone it. I was hoping it would be a little different. Well, I will add that I think it was about a year ago, I think the Marine Advisory Committee had forward support of floating docks. We went through the master plan meeting on August 21st. I want to talk about that a little bit as well when we get to floating docks and what happened at that meeting regarding floating docks. But then I know that the Marine Advisory Committee wanted to look at different materials more. Okay. Yeah. So I'll definitely wait to hear from what they have to say on that. Thank you. That's all. Great. Thank you. So a couple questions for me. So if the design fee is lost, right, because of how we do this competitive, what amount is that? About $150,000 to $200,000. Okay. Okay. And then what is staff's recommendation for the floating docks? Is it aluminum or concrete or fixed? So what we'd like to do actually, if we get consensus direction today to move forward, is to start to investigate which and manufacturers get the docks here. You would want to experiment with, because I know there's concrete, there's aluminum, there's aluminum concrete. There's all sorts of different types that we would like to actually get here, if we can, to the marina or take you there to review them and then make that recommendation. If we can get a solid floating dock tonight, which is what we're actually seeing. You're recommending floating docks? Yes. And then you'll do more research on what type of floating docks? Yes. And then bring it back to you to say this is the type that. And go through the Marine Advisory Committee as well, Mayor. Okay. And then my last question is, if we do floating docks, it looks like it's about a differential of 4.5 million to 6 million. 4.5 million for aluminum, 6 million for concrete. But regardless of that, 87.5% of that would be covered by FEMA. So actually, in terms of the docks, if we get the direction to do floating docks, then we're going to do a hazard mitigation grant, because we have fixed docks now. We know that FEMA will reimburse through hazard mitigation for the floating as well. So there's work to be done in those terms. And that's why if we get a definitive tonight, which is what we're seeking, then we can really hit the, you know, hit the accelerator on that as well. We also have, just so you know, we have submitted at two different committee levels in Tallahassee as well, a request for funding for the marina repairs. Great. Yeah. And our lobbyist is working on that. Good. Okay. Okay. So before we actually do our motions and direct, oh, sorry, do you have one more question? Okay. Just a question with regards to the phasing of the stabilization of A, B, and C. With C experiencing much less damage than A and B, is there a possibility of putting in the timeline and opening dock C sooner? So, yes. Depending on how we move forward with the peninsula, and my apology, I missed a slide or two. We got ahead of ourselves. That was part of it, actually. We, once we open, are ready to open the peninsula, we will also open the south access wall, which will give people access to that south wall slips. And we would like to be able to phase the reopening to where we open dock C, the south wall, the west wall, in a phased approach, because we also have all of the agreements being done at the same time. So, and with that being said, some of the things that I, the slide that I missed that I just wanted to brief on was, we did talk about finalizing the debris cleanup on the peninsula, but also the boat club has to be secured. So, we're waiting for decisions on that and how we're going to secure that. They also have a, we have a connex box out there with the items being stored that would have to be dealt with before we can open the peninsula. And once we have repopulated slips and pending construction contractors and how things are going to move forward, we would open the marina to recreational use potentially at that point. Okay. Good. So, just to add, I know that Commissioner Walker has repeatedly asked for a timeline, as has Commissioner DuGuard actually. And, and, but one of the things I felt that we weren't able to really populate that timeline with any sort of accuracy until we have made decisions and we have the go on some of these decisions. And then we'll be able to use our project manager and staff to really put together solid, solid timelines for everybody, which we would offer to the city commission as soon as they're ready. Okay. Well, I, sounds good. Um, one more question. Okay. Yeah. If you don't mind. Nope. If we open the peninsula, will that be open to people being able to take their golf cart, bicyclists, pedestrians, able to go out there and watch the sunset and spend the afternoon? Yes. That's all I needed. Thanks. And, uh, since, uh, two had the opportunity, Commissioner DuGuard or vice mayor, did you need to ask anything? You good? Okay. So, uh, before we do public input, I thought maybe we should take a quick break and then we'll go right to getting some input from all of you. Thank you. Start pulling everybody back up here. Commissioner Walker calling Commissioner Walker. Yes. We're going to get the meeting back started and we're going to go ahead and go to public input. And I would, we got a little bit loose just because the city manager needed one hand clap to feel better, you know, about everything. But, uh, yeah, I do want to ask everyone during the input if we could not clap or boo or cheer or whatever, um, just to kind of keep things moving. Um, but, and so, uh, whoever would like to come forward and speak to this issue, you'll have just your name, address, and, uh, three minutes. I'll start this out here. Curtis, 51 Main Street. Thank you to the commissioners. I'll even say thank you to Jennifer Bramley. We can agree to disagree on a lot of stuff, but I didn't think this day was going to come for a while, but we're here. So there's all kinds of things to talk about, but we're going to get to it. Uh, thank you, Moe, for all the questions you asked last Thursday on the 50% rule. A lot of the people in the community didn't understand it, and it was a better explanation by the city. So thank you for that. Um, a lot of this work can be done for a lot less. I've done the work in the marina for the last four years. I understand I'm not a general contractor, so that's where our hold up is maybe why you're not asking me to do this, but Curtis Marine Solutions specializes in things that other people can't do. So for the last week, I've been down at Clearwater Beach Marina doing special projects for them, and funny that you mentioned, or the ferry company, Trisha Rodriguez. So I just put all their pilings in for them down there to, for their boat. So yes, I can. Sorry. So a different contractor said that you have to remove the finger piers, all that stuff. That's not true. Maybe with equipment that they have, that is true, but I have different equipment that you can do a lot faster, a lot easier, and a lot more cost effective. If it's a matter of that I'm not a general contractor, that's not an issue. I got several marine contractors I can work under. My insurance covers me for that along with them. So don't be afraid to ask me. I've been doing it for four years for you guys. So I got a little confused on the pier, which is fine, but as far as the ferry goes, I think, you know, the first 40, 50 feet of the pier is not that damaged that you could drive the pilings back down at the little bit that you need. Prior to the hurricanes, it was actually, I was asked about moving pilings or something over because it was a wider ferry coming in, and we could still do that pretty easily. Some of the floating docks there I think are still fine, just to get on it and get it done. So I'm going to run out of time on this, but I don't even know where to start because this is a 180 from you guys. So I appreciate that so much, and that's where we're going to leave it at. Floating docks is the way to go just for electrical issues. We don't have much of a choice there. If we go fixed, we're shooting ourselves in the foot. I know it's a mixed thing on that. We can figure out what the materials and all the other stuff are, but we are in an area that's protected, and they'll last for a very long time with minimal maintenance. There's always maintenance to anything, and we just got to make sure that we don't do what we did to get here, and make sure that we got proper programs in place for maintenance and catch things before it happens, and not say we're going to kick it down the road for five years to the master plan. That's how we got in a lot of trouble here. So thank you. Thank you, Eric. Okay, anyone else wish to come forward? Name and address in three minutes. Hi. Carol Elwood, 1568 Burnham Lane in Dunedin. I moved out of the marina when I was told to, and I want to say I'm at Island Estates right now, and the interesting thing is they do not have pedestals for electricity. They have them on pilings that are five and a half feet off the ground, so they do not have to worry about tidal surges, which was rather interesting. And the other thing that they did is on their stern pilings, they doubled all of those and through-bolted them into each other to give more stability to the finger docks. My other point, if you decide to do fixed docks, is that I've been here since 79, and I've never known the docks to not be underwater at the finger docks when the tide is high. And all you have to do is make them as high as the main dock, and there wouldn't be any problem. We were in slip number 29 on the A dock, and we were so far underwater at high tide that I had to take my shoes and socks off in order to get on my boat and worry about getting a shock on the way. And we moved one slip over where we had no finger dock. It was the main dock, and we had no problem whatsoever. And they need to think about that if they decide to do fixed docks in the future. Great. Thank you. Anyone else wish to come forward on this issue? Name and address in three minutes. Commissioners, Madam Mayor. As far as the type of docks, I think... Thank you very much. Anyone else wish to come forward to speak on this issue? Name and address in three minutes. Hi, Susan. We will have less boats in the marina. Now we have echo. And I'm not sure on the types of, like, if we have cement, does that mean even fewer boats than if we have the metal ones? So that's just my point. Thank you. Jude Zandmeyer, 95 Milwaukee Avenue, Dunedin. And mine is just a very short, simple question. I don't know about the docks. I really love floating docks. But is there a difference in the width of a concrete dock and the floating dock? And if so, if the floating dock, which we all decide we like the floating dock, and it takes up maybe four inches, six inches, eight inches on every single dock, we're going to lose a slip. Maybe, maybe, I don't know. And we'll, I can, we'll answer some of those at the end. That's just a question. I don't know. Nope. We'll, we'll have that answered at the end. Thanks, Jude. Okay. Name and address, three minutes. Yes, ma'am. Court Douthat, 884 Jones Street. Thank you, Ms. Mayor, Commissioner, members, fellow citizens, especially that have set through what is, in my opinion, a long overdue meeting. I've been an active member of this community since 2000. I'm a licensed and insured captain that operates out of several marinas around three states. But Dunning's where I call home, where I put my boat in the water approximately 90 days a year. Yes, I use the marina more than a lot of the users. I also see a benefit in having the captains that use the marina in the marina. Whether or not we're putting boats in or not, a lot of times we're just running other people's boats. My business brings, you know, the marina is the heart of our, of our city, I feel like, especially our down, I mean, especially our downtown. My business brings in approximately 100 anglers. They're specifically chasing one species of fish. They often bring their families to recreate and visit our lovely town. The economic impact is felt by a lot of the local businesses. We keep talking about FEMA money, but how long will it take and what will the negative effects be on our local small businesses? I've been active in the marina for 20 years and I believe there are about 40 professional, possibly over 40 professional captains that operate out of our marina. Some, a lot of them are part-time. A lot of them aren't even getting on their own boat. They're getting on someone else's boat. You can do the math, surely see the local captains as a valuable asset to our team. I would like to see our community and the marina, consider the captains, possibly celebrate us, but at least consider us when you're talking about marina usage. We would, and I can't speak for all of us, but I, I do know most of us. We would be considerate whether or not it means we're, you know, having our patrons. Usually it's one car per boat that fishes with us. We talk to them about parking park, you know, not right in front of the harbormaster's office or in front of the restaurant. Um, the city staff operates in direction of the city council, the mayor and city council, or harbormaster and one assistant do a really good job with the hours they have. They need additional help. We got to put more people down there. Um, we have to allocate the money for more people. Um, it's interesting that the same firm that directed us through the destruction helped remove the debris, assess the damage and had input on the job description of project manager. Then the only applicant for the position throws up some red flags for me could be just the best person and team for the job. I'm curious if there's any staff or council member that's benefiting from that company. Thank you very much for your time. You guys will be scrutinized or exalted on how you continue to handle the difficult situations in our city. Thank you. Uh, anyone else wish to come forward to speak on this issue? Name and address in three minutes. Thank you. David Belt, uh, here in place of my parents at 1441 Douglas. Um, uh, got a couple comments. They're kind of a little bit, uh, disjointed just on kind of different topics we, uh, addressed. Uh, one thing I wanted to touch on was security concerns, uh, particularly on the peninsula, even before the storm. Uh, I mean, I've seen people out there completely intoxicated that I've drinking and driving back there. Um, a fight broke out back there one time when I was, uh, coming in at late at night, uh, called the sheriff's office on that. So, um, that's not uncommon. And, uh, I think the city somewhat encourages some of the behavior that takes on back there or that goes on back there. Um, so, uh, I wouldn't try to add to that. Um, another thing I wanted to point out was, uh, Caldisi, uh, someone pointed out that the docks floated away. That's because the pilings weren't tall enough. If the pilings are tall enough, that's not going to be a concern. Um, another thing, um, I think we can get the ramp south wall and west wall open, uh, probably sooner than that time frame that was allotted, especially given, uh, those, uh, not requiring electricity. Um, the boats on the south and west wall have lower electricity needs given their, uh, smaller vessels that typically are only going to be charging maybe a trolling motor, um, which isn't required to keep the boat operational. If you're using the boat regularly and checking on it regularly, your batteries are going to be maintained and recharged by the engine. Um, and then, um, one of the say is basically, uh, someone who works in, uh, government contracting and acquisitions, uh, uh, I like that you're leveraging, uh, the GEC, uh, where you can, uh, and would like to see, um, you know, piling companies added to that in the future if we can, given, um, that's part of routine maintenance, uh, re-driving a piling every now and then. Um, and then, and I am glad that the city manager, uh, wants the commissioners to come out and check, uh, the, uh, and actually experience, uh, interacting with different types of docks, which I think for, uh, non-non-boaters, uh, uh, uh, that would be helpful and I would encourage you to have someone who's, uh, a boater, as I know, I think, uh, Commissioner Walker has, uh, explained, you know, cleaning and, uh, how, how all that works as well. Um, I think that would be beneficial and I think that's all I have. So thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate it. Anyone else wish to come forward to speak on this issue? Name address in three minutes. Good evening. Good evening. Again, David Pero, 523 Edgewater Drive. So I was going to get up here and complain about pace of the project and all kinds of stuff like that, but I, I pleasantly surprised. I, I want to compliment all of you for listening. I remember that evening back on November 21st when we all talked about this and you leaned forward and, and you listened. You listened to the, the citizens' comments. You, you took, took a look at independent studies that were out there and I, I really compliment you on the pace, but I would like to see it a little faster. Okay. Uh, you have now have a very competent project manager, Timothy from Tetra Tech. I respect that company, uh, tremendously. So I think that can go a long way once you have a very qualified individual like that to move things along. So as we talked about before, I think we can get the electrical, the electrical pedestals back on before June. I'd really like to see the seawall reconstruction moved up so we can have a holiday Christmas party, uh, boat parade. All right. So with that said, uh, I will offer an endless supply of Red Bull to everyone involved in the recovery so we can get this thing moving. All right. Um, I also want to comment on recreational boost, uh, use versus boat storage. Boats are not meant to be stored and not used sitting in the water. All right. Personally, I have experienced over a thousand dollars worth of damage to my boat just in the batteries. I know that several other, uh, have on my dock. If engines don't run, if through holes, uh, are, are, are not used properly. The actual hole itself is deteriorating. So please do not treat this as a storage facility. All right. If you're going to bring them back in, we need recreational use and we need to use them. And that includes the boat ramp. All right. Um, my please, everyone, please. Um, and my final comment is I've traveled thousands of miles and seen hundreds of docks on my boat. I'm on paradise found number seven right now. Um, and I would say that floating docks, concrete floating docks are the way to go from what I've seen. The, the, the main caution I would say is that you need to make sure that the pilings are tall enough. We saw our floating docks fail because they rose over the height of the piling. All right. So Kaladisi, Honeymoon Island, same thing. Just make sure they're tall enough, make sure they're maintained properly and you'll love them. All right. Well, thank you very much for, uh, jumping on this. I appreciate the care and the concern for all of us voters. Thank you, David. Appreciate it. Okay. Anyone else wish to come forward to speak on this issue? Hi, Zeke. Come on. Name, address in three minutes. Good evening, mayor and the commission. Um, it's great to see you guys. Um, my name is Zeke Derrick. I'm on three, uh, 736 Scotland street. Um, I, I, I don't want to repeat what Dave just said, but he's totally right. Uh, floating docks is really the only way to go and they all have to be floating docks, not just some. Um, I didn't want to add on to what Ellen said about the, uh, panels being up higher. That was a recommendation I made, you know, a few years ago at one of the Marine advisory boards and you know, it came back. So, uh, that question or recommendation is for the consultant, electrical consultant too, that, uh, I would like to make sure that those get put up. I think it's going to be pennies on the dollar in the long run. If it costs a little extra, um, the floating docks, the pedestals, I would like to see those repurposed once we decide on floating docks or, you know, be able to repurpose those to a tribute. And my vision would be that you'd have a flood or a storm, the boats would all go up and you wouldn't even have to turn the electricity off. The panels would be protected. They'd be protected by the floating docks going up. That's, so that's the only thing I wanted to make tonight, but thank you for everything you guys have done. Thank you, Zeke. Um, anyone else wish to come forward to speak on this issue? Name and address in three minutes. Thank you. Uh, good evening, commissioners. I'm, uh, Rob Buell and I'm a local resident. I live over in Harborview. And, um, I think I mentioned last meeting that you guys were instrumental in helping me get back in my home in about three months time. And, uh, so my hat's off to you for that. Equally, I'm impressed with what you guys are doing as a pertains to the Marina. It's a lot of work. There's a lot going on, a lot of moving parts. Um, right now we're currently assisting you guys with the electrical and getting it going. I, uh, the crews have got a couple of the switch, some of the switch are already, you know, cleaned up and breakers replaced. I believe a couple of the lights will be on, uh, with the exception of a couple of things that Lori will need to do with the pole lights. She's got to get some cherry pickers out there to get some lamps replaced. Um, but as that pertains to the Marina overall, I believe most of the conductors out there are in good shape. I mean, hats off to Lori and the crew because they did a good job in killing the power and safeguarding the Marina prior to the storm, prior to the surge coming in. So as a result, that mitigated quite a bit of damage. Um, we're hopeful that we're going to be able to utilize, well, whoever ends up doing the electrical work, we're hopeful that it's us, of course. But if it's not, it makes no difference. You guys will be able to utilize a lot of this equipment if it's designed right. So I'm hoping that we can, uh, help backward engineer some of it with the, it looks like you've got some great folks in here with the design work and, um, you know, there's money to be saved. But I would agree that I think the floaters are the way to go. Concrete floaters are ideal and most people don't understand that they come out of Europe. So there's longer wait time. Aluminum floaters, they're generally, there's a lot of them built around here locally. So, uh, there's a lot to still consider and a lot of things you guys have going on. We have, um, contributed some, uh, pedestals, four or five pedestals to get your, uh, the area going over by the commercial docks and, you know, consider it alone for right now. So when you get your other pedestals in, you can pay me back, I guess. But, uh, we'll get that going probably by the end of this week without an issue. All right. And if there's any questions or anything we can help you with, please feel free to give us a call. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. Anyone else wish to come forward to speak to this issue? Good evening, Fairley. Good evening, Mayor. Excuse me. This is my third meeting of the day and I'm a little stiff at my age. I'm Fairley Brinkley, 644 Loudoun Avenue. I'm like David. There are a lot of things that I heard tonight and a lot of things that I would like to say. It's wonderful that we're where we are now, but we're about the last person in line five months post storm. We're just getting answers together. What I hear, Laura, you said we need to work on the use agreement on the docks. Well, we've had five months to work on the use agreements on the dot. Um, Jorge, I think you said, I think it was you. Um, we, we, um, we, we, we're ready to go. If you could keep addressing the commission. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. We're, we're ready to go on the electric. We've got the request for proposal. We've got it out for bids. Once we get it back in two months, then we'll be three months to get this together. And then I hear the contractor saying, it'll take me four days. I have it all the work done in four days. So nine months, I'm sorry. Yeah. Nine months, four days. I'd urge you to look at your process. Look at, at the, the work, look at the cumbersome activities we've had. Look back at the dredging of the marina. You all made these laws. The staff has got to follow them. So fairly it's, it's most of the most procurement laws are state laws. So just so you know, but go ahead. Yeah, but there, there's, I agree, Mo. Yeah. But I'd still urge you to take a look at what you're doing. Finally, I, I want to say that as a former marina operator, you, you have to look at what boats are being produced now. We're looking at the number of slips in the marina, trying to say, we don't want to lose slips. Boats like some people like me are getting wider these days and we're wider all the way to the back. So if you build back exactly what we have, you're going to have slips that are not going to, going to fit boats and you're going to have vacancies. Finally, I'd ask you, uh, Manny said, take a look. I've taken a look. If you look at the Marriott Marina, where I am on the beach, right across the, um, city marina down by the, the amphitheater, by the, I guess the sound, they call it now, those floating concrete docks went up with boats tied to them and came back down. They got a little problem with the electricity, a little problem. The gate doesn't fit tight, but those concrete docks are there. Look at the concrete docks we have by the boat ramp. They, they blew away. Yeah. Thank you. Fairly. Appreciate your, your input. Okay. Um, anyone else wish to come forward to speak to this issue? Uh, well, we can't restart it, but anyone else wish to come forward? Okay. Um, we have, um, oh, sorry. Okay. I didn't see you raising your hand. So name and address in three minutes. Captain Angelo Gentile, 1961 Bunny Court. Um, first and foremost, thank you all for the opportunity. I know this has been kind of a long, uh, tough process and an emotional process for a lot of us. I think I can speak for most of the captains that operate, um, here in Dunedin as a Dunedin resident. Um, we just want to, we just want to be able to operate as everyone else does. I think we're, you know, let's, let's stabilize and figure out the, the long-term, um, aspect of, you know, which docks to use and all that kind of stuff, but let's get us back up and running. And from, from our perspective, the ramp use motion that's coming across your desk, I think we agree fully to that. We're fine. We'll, you know, we're insured. We'll pay whatever fees we have to, but please open the ramp. We need, we need that ramp open. And from, from the only thing stopping us for operating is one padlock. I mean, at the end of the day, we, we, we need that open and that's my ask. So thank you. Thank you, Angelo. Thank you. Please, everyone. Okay. Name and address for the record in three minutes. Thank you. Uh, Derek Dormois, 1644 Brook Drive. So a little about me, I'm full-time and short fishing captain, just like Angelo and Court have stated here. Um, the ramp is viable to our success. Um, Marina does not directly benefit just from me picking up clients there. You know, you guys make no money off that. I understand slip renters is where all the money comes from. Um, but my business brings money to the city in general. So enterprise front, all that good stuff that we want to make this Marina look awesome with the master plan. I'm going to contribute to that. People fly down here from all over the country, all over the world to come fish with me for a few hours. Pretty crazy. You know, I'm living the dream. Love my job. Um, help us out. Okay. We're helping you out indirectly. You don't know about that, but you know, people in town are getting haircuts in downtown Dunedin, going to restaurants, getting food around town, staying in hotels, Airbnbs. We provide them throughout the city. So for the guides, it's all we want. It's nothing big, you know, boat ramp, get in and out. Um, if you're worried about damage out there in the water and it being a safety hazard, it's not true. I operate five, seven days a week. I drive my boat every day. It's kind of my job. Um, never hit anything since the hurricanes. So that's not a big deal, but, uh, just help us out. We'll help you guys out too. Thank you. Thank you. Um, okay. Anyone else wish to come forward to speak to this issue? Okay. Seeing none, we did have kind of one question, two questions, but they're kind of on the same thing, I think. And that was, uh, Susan and Jude were asking about, you know, the impact fix versus cement on kind of width of concrete versus fix, which really goes to the heart of number of boats and how that impacts the number of boats. Can someone answer that question? Laurie. Yes. So, uh, with the master plan, one, the designs that we, um, were putting forward for approval were to widen the slips because we are aware that the boats are getting wider and wider. Um, and that was a design that was going to also, um, lessen the number of slips. So with that master plan, um, the decisions were to be made of if that was going to be approved. Um, now with the FEMA, uh, funding and the decisions going forward, there is a decision that has to be made of whether or not we will be able to follow the master plan with our dock replacements or whether we want to. Um, and that permitting timeline that gets affected by changing the layout of those slips, uh, those docks. So yes, we do, uh, we're not forced to widen those slips, whether we choose concrete or aluminum or fixed docks, but the marina does need wider slips. Um, and we've, we do have boats that are squeezing into those slips. So, and beyond the size of the boats, um, I guess the question is whether you go with fixed or concrete, does that add to the equation of less slips or not either way? No, it's a matter of how wide we make the finger piers, how wide we make the slips. Um, typically a floating dock, um, the main dock is probably about a foot would probably need to be about a foot wider to accommodate for the ramp. Um, maybe two feet. Um, but that's, we're not in that design process yet or the decision-making process. So, um, I don't have those measurements yet. Okay. I think the city manager wanted to add. I do. Um, so I, once we get to this item, as far as consensus direction goes, um, actually if I may, just, just once we get to consensus direction, I do have, uh, something, uh, talk a little bit, like I said, about the August meeting and about the plan moving forward as far as meeting the master plan, uh, and some decisions that were made in August as well. Okay. Okay. So what I'd like to do, unless somebody thinks we should do it a little differently, is, uh, and I know Commissioner Sandbergen had, uh, one or two, any other questions before we go ahead and go to the issues and get motions? So does anyone, and I'll start with vice mayor. Okay. Commissioner Sandbergen, did you? No, no, I'm okay. You're okay. Okay. Um, okay. Uh, Commissioner Walker, anything else? Uh, nothing further. Okay. Commissioner, uh, Dugard. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I would like to kind of have a general review of the request for consensus direction so that we understand where we're going if we have a vote or even just, uh, give a cent to the consensus direction. So, I mean, I've got the issues. I'm going to walk us through the issues. Uh, basically they are, uh, they're on my kind of cheat sheet for this. Okay. So the new pedestals will be one, uh, stabilization plan will be one, floating docks if we go with that recommendation, and hiring of the GEC so that we can cut the six months out of the process. Those are, those are the main ones that I think have captured those, right? Those are very good. Yes. Okay. Now, um, so, um, and we can, we can do a motion. It's probably easier if we just do it as a motion in a second. Um, I would like to make that motion. Okay. On the new pedestals or all four? All four. All four. Okay. Well, okay. And basically what you're saying is we're going to go with staff's recommendation on getting the new pedestals, uh, use doing their stabilization plan, going with floating docks, and going with the, uh, hiring of GEC so that we can cut out the six months. I would, I would prefer not to go with floating docks at this time. I would like to remove that from the motion. Okay. So you'll, the other three, you're going to move the other three, which is, which is new pedestals stabilization plan and the hiring of GEC. So, um, so I have a motion to those three. Do I have a second? Okay. So then let's go one by one. So we've got a motion for, uh, buying new pedestals. I have a motion. Do I have a second? Second. Okay. Uh, and, uh, make, so we basically we have Mr. Dugard, Mr. Sandbergen, and I will ask, uh, let's go ahead and do a roll call vote. Commissioner Walker. Aye. Vice Mayor Gao. Aye. Commissioner Sandbergen. Aye. Commissioner Dugard. Aye. And Mayor Franey. Aye. And that motion passes unanimously. Okay. Now I'll go to the stabilization plan and I have a maker of the motion, uh, to go with staff's recommendation on the stabilization plan. Um, can, can we add one to change, which that instead of August, we're talking about June. Is that a fair, is that a fair, uh, Commissioner Dugard? Okay. Do I have a second to that? Second. Mayor, I'm, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Um, I think that June is ambitious in my mind. I, I'd be much more comfortable with July even. Um, it is 120 days and we were talking about 90 days. It is, but it's a lot of work. Uh, either that or the motion is that our goal is June and we'll work as hard as we can toward June, but I don't want to over promise on this. Well, you know, I mean, we'll work as hard as we can on it, but. Okay. Motion. The motion is okay. Seconder. Okay. And, uh, okay. Commissioner Walker. Okay. So, um, I will, uh, I've got a maker of the motion and a second. Let's do roll call vote. Commissioner Sandbergen. Aye. Vice Mayor Gow. Aye. Commissioner Walker. Aye. Commissioner Dugard. Aye. And Mayor Franey. Aye. And that motion passes unanimously. Okay. Now we go to floating docks. Well, let's go to hiring GEC. Um, because we have a motion from Commissioner Dugard on that one. Second. Okay. Well, now we have a second. Okay. Um, so a motion and I have a second and, um, uh, let's do a roll call vote. Vice Mayor Gow. Aye. Commissioner Walker. Aye. Commissioner Sandbergen. Aye. Commissioner Dugard. Aye. And Mayor Franey. Aye. And that motion passes unanimously. Okay. Now we go to floating docks. So, um, the recommendation on the table from staff is to go with floating docks and then we get more information later about what type. So, uh, do I have a motion for floating docks? So moved. Okay. Commissioner Walker. Do I have a second? Can I get clarification? Sure. What? If, if we are just choosing between fixed or floating and if we choose floating, other options will come available, is there a need to exclude fixed at this time? I believe so. Staff's recommendation is floating and it can may, you have a, we have a motion and we don't have a second for discussion. Right. Yeah. That's true. We don't have a second. So, um, second. Okay. Thank you. So, so if I may, Mayor, um, I did want to talk about the August 21st special meeting, uh, and that was in regards to the Marina Master Plan. Um, I did go over the minutes, uh, as far as the, the, the city commission's position on the Marina Master Plan just to refresh my own memory. Um, and what we did was that Kim Lee Horn presented the master plan and then the city commission took it up in component parts. Um, and, and, and the, the master plan itself, um, was generally supported by the city commission in terms of these are concepts that, that we'll go, we'll do design in 2025 for doc a, um, and the fishing pier and so on and so forth to take it in, in those component parts. Um, so, so, and, and agreed that as each component part came to the city commission, you would approve it. Okay. So in terms of the, the type of docs, and I'll just read you the minutes, uh, Mayor Bojowski did think, however, that there was consensus of at least three members of the commission who would like to see the floating dock option from a sustainability and long-term sustainability perspective for the Marina. There's a longer life, uh, to that than wood. Uh, and, and in parentheses, I have Mayor Bojowski, Mayor Franey, and Commissioner Gao says, Vice Mayor Franey, uh, commented she, she completely understood re, uh, regarding concluding that there is no different way if she does want it to do, do it the right way. Uh, and then Commissioner Walker had said he likes floating docks however he did want to, didn't want to leave any rock unturned. It's just a significant, uh, decision when it comes to accessibility. So I think that there was, uh, consensus direction, uh, from the city commission, uh, to, to look at floating docks, but bring back the materials to the city commission. I mean, you were really looking at, I know that Commissioner Gao, um, I remember distinctly expressed concern regarding the noise of aluminum, yeah, and, and the look in our marina of, of, of aluminum. Um, so, and that really led up to staff's recommendation today to, to allow us to move forward with floating docks and bring you back those materials. Um, as far as the exhaustive, um, research between fixed and floating, I, I feel that we've done that through the master plan process, um, and to come, to arrive at where we are today. So, and I realize that this is a new commission. I realize that we have two new commissioners on, uh, on the commission, uh, but I do feel that we had that direction already, and I, and I needed to bring that to your attention this evening. No, thank you very much for that. So, well, we have a, um, maker of the motion, which is a commissioner Walker. We have a seconder commissioner to guard. So I'm going to do a roll call vote. Vice mayor Gao. Aye. Commissioner Sam Bergen. Aye. Commissioner Dugard. Aye. Commissioner Walker. Aye. And mayor Franey. Aye. And that motion passes unanimously. Great. Okay. So we'll be getting more information on the different types of floating docks, but there we go. Um, so I'm going to allow each commissioner, uh, to have any closing comments that they might want to make. And I will start with, uh, the vice mayor. Mayor, did you, did you, uh, pick up on the, uh, hiring of the GEC? Did we already do that? We did that. Okay. Yep. We did that. Sorry. Yeah. Long day. Yeah. That's okay. No, it's good. Uh, just real briefly. I'm just happy tonight's here. I'm happy. I'm glad that we got some votes out of the way and just moving forward. So thank you, Mayor. Thank you, commission. Thank you, staff. Thank you to the MAC and just, uh, residents in general who just, I know it's been long. I know it's been a little hard at times, uh, but we're, we're getting through it. So thank you. Mr. Sandberg. No, I think that, um, I'm really anxious to work with Tim, right? I read your resume and I think you are probably the right guy for, to take this on from her super storm Sandy to here in Florida. I think you, I'm glad you've come into our lives. Um, we, uh, it's time for, it's time for the Marina to move. I mean, we gotta move on. We need the revenue. Those merchants need the revenue. The community needs it back open. Uh, I, and I, this is really me going out on my own limb, but I think it's, it's very disappointing during tourist season this year. Uh, the appearance, someone came to me and I just saw the clear blue said, have you seen what the Marina looks like? And I thought, yeah, that's, that's, I definitely know what the Marina looks like. It's very unlike us here in Dunedin. And, uh, after this many months we need to move. And, uh, I think one of the questions that came up tonight, I just want to, I'm assuming the Marina is open 24 hours a day. Uh, I had an opportunity to walk out on the peninsula and it had the remnants of a wild night of party from the night before. And, you know, I think we owe it to, I guess when the lights come back, the cameras come back, hopefully we can make sure that those people, their boats, the materials, and the trespassing is limited and cut down. I'm sure the sheriff's office can't be out there all day, but this is a big part. Somebody brought up to me, how many times do you see a picture of Dunedin that doesn't include our Marina? And it's our chance to shine, our chance to push this forward, and let's get this thing back open for everybody. Thank you. Great. Um, Commissioner Walker. Thank you, Mayor. Well, as a licensed captain and a person that's been around boats for their entire life, uh, this, this issue was personal for me. Um, you know, it took us a bit to get here, but again, like looking back at the, there's essentially unprecedented damage that we received that, you know, it, we, uh, I don't think we would have expected that had it not occurred. And so going back and taking a look at the lessons learned here, I think that that's imperative. Uh, we, as a commission, we asked for a timeline that would get us through stabilization, get us risks or mitigate the risk of the upcoming hurricane season and get us to the replacement of the docks and the staff you delivered, you delivered that plan. And, uh, you know, I will say this, our goal going forward, because we're not, we're not done yet, we've got a lot of work to do, but I will say that going forward, we need to take every opportunity we can to shorten that timeline and get the, the marina open. Because I do know, uh, Dave Perro's comment with regards to if you don't operate your boat, you're going to be spending a lot of money getting it back up to, up to speed, literally. Um, the risk mitigation, that's talked about that. Uh, the other thing is, and just, this is really in my, my opinion, and, uh, less may, may call it something else. But in my, my opinion, the FEMA reimbursement is essential to this process because what it does is it provides cash flow. That's, that's it. It's not about maximizing or trying to increase a reserve. It's about maximizing cash flow. And, um, I think the, uh, the last thing I want to say is, is that, um, I do appreciate the fact that we brought in the peer into this discussion because, uh, it's a huge economic driver for Dunedin and, uh, you know, we need to be, we need to be marching forward in parallel paths on, on everything we're doing. So appreciate that. Um, finally, I do want to, uh, somebody made a comment with regards to more resources down at the marina. I, I fully agree. I think we need, we need more people down there. And, um, I, I, I really think that it needs to be part of the plan. I fully, fully support that. So, um, I believe that covers my comments. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, Commissioner Dugard. Thank you, Mayor. A lot of times we get fatigued by processes and government systems because they seem laborious and time consuming. There's reasons for those processes being that way. And I've had a good schooling on that in the last four months. Uh, there's reasons why you take time with such things and it's not designed around efficiency. We forget that it is not designed around efficiency. It's designed around representation and due process so that you have this opportunity to speak before us before we make a decision so that opportunities for things to be considered are appropriate. And I know that makes us frustrated and it makes us angry because we just want to get back on the water. We just want to get back to catching fish, whatever it is we do through that marina. And I've seen a lot of frustration and I've seen some of that turn into anger and I've seen it misplaced. Anger is a poor marksman. It doesn't tend to hit the right targets. But I think tonight was very constructive on all parties parts. I saw good thoughts coming from every direction and good questions. And so I think we're about ready to make a great decision and get back on the water again. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you. I did want to make sure I told Commissioner Walker that, I mean, I did own a boat for two years. Okay. It was a motorboat, 20.2 feet. I'm not totally a layperson here. I probably crashed into a dock or two. Anyway, you know, the marina is totally the jewel of our community. And your comment about you don't see many things, you know, when you don't see a picture of the marina, it's so true. When you said that, all I could think about was when Major League Baseball played regular games here. They were showing that on the MLB channel all the time, the marina. So it's a great day to get this thing going. It's absolutely true. I certainly commend our staff though. I mean, there's a lot of moving parts here and, you know, I'm not in my house yet. And I'm just saying they've, the staff's had a lot of things to deal with to make sure they're representing all the different angles of the city and some of the problems that we've had. So, but we're, we got this thing going. I, it was, I think it is extremely productive meeting tonight, getting it up and operating as best as possible, continuing to have a sense of urgency. I, I totally believe that. I think we can hit that, that June date. I think we can have that boat parade. Thank you for those who brought that up. Um, sorry, Jennifer, I know you're, and, uh, and I totally agree. The peer to me, getting that peer up and running is normalcy, making people feel normal and going out and watching the sunset. Uh, even though it's great, Bon Appetit's doing it temporarily, but getting that up and running is huge. You know, getting the revenue going, you know, we know we only got, what, $500,000 of coverage for loss of revenue and that's going to get eaten up in several different ways. So, getting some revenue going, obviously, you know, this really is the silver lining of, you know, an opportunity with FEMA money to get those floating docks and set ourselves up for long-term sustainability. That's so huge. And, and we, you know, nobody wanted the storm, but there are silver linings that came with it. Um, appreciate everybody's feedback, um, tonight. Um, I think it was great. Appreciate my colleagues' thought process. Certainly, I want to, again, thank Jennifer and her staff for, I know, a lot of work, a lot of heavy lifting here to make sure you're bringing all this together. And Tim, you're the guy now. You got to get this home. Um, anyway, so, okay. Any other thing for the good of the order, Jennifer? Jennifer? Very good night. Thank you, Mayor. Okay. Thanks for all you do. Thank you, everyone. Meeting adjourned. We'll be right back. Bye. Bye. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.