CITY COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING - Apr 17, 2025

Tom Dugard: yes · Robert Walker: yes

Outcome: And that motion passes unanimously. (partial — some responses not in transcript)

In that motion for 25-11, we should have had a recommendation. I had a recommendation to add, um, and presentations in the motion, um, because you wanted to add So the maker of the motion was the Vice Mayor Gao and Commissioner Walker was a seconder.

Steven Sandbergen: yes · Tom Dugard: yes · Robert Walker: yes · Jeff Gow: yes

Outcome: And that motion passes unanimously. ✓

Okay, good evening. Welcome to the April 17, 2025 City Commission meeting. Calling the meeting to order, and I'm going to turn to Jen to do the invocation and Pledge of Allegiance.

Let us begin this meeting by taking a brief moment of silence and reflection. Amen.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice.

Okay, our first item is presentation, Gus Cooper plaque dedication, and we don't have anybody in the family, but so I'm just going to read a little bit about Gus. There was, for those who may not know, there was a plaque for Gus Cooper on the door to the TV studio, the television studio in the old City Hall, and I kind of got word that his daughter was concerned that, you know, it was thrown away and out the door, and it was preserved, actually, and we just re-put it back on our new studio in the side area, so that plaque is back up, and it was actually originally dedicated on April 17, 2003, so I'm just going to read a little bit about Gus. First of all, Gus, and I'll say this first of all, he was a 38-year U.S. Marine Corps Reserve. He, before he moved to Dunedin in 1979, he was vice president for public relations and advertising for New York Life Insurance Company, so he came here with a lot of experience as a new retiree. So I'll read through this. In Dunedin, Gus Cooper served on numerous volunteer advisory committees and was the creator and host for a weekly cable television program on local government and community events. When the City of Dunedin established its 24-7 government cable TV channel in 2003, the Commission named its City Hall production facility as the Gus Cooper Studio, in recognition for his participation in more than 600 TV programs over a 22-year period. Other community activities included Dunedin Country Club director from 1981 to 1985. He was actually president in 1983-84. Member of the Board of Trustees of Mies Manor, a 500-unit retirement facility. Of course, now we know it as Mies Life. That was from 1983 to 2001. Member of the Rotary Club of Dunedin. Director of the Dunedin Historical Society and editor of its newsletter. Community advisory boards for the Junior League of Clearwater Dunedin and Schiller International University, which, of course, was before Fenway. And was a two-term president of the Dunedin Council of Organizations 89-90. I would also say, and I judge this by historically, some of the awards that people who really have contributed greatly to our community, they have gotten these top awards, and he got every one of them. In 1990, he received the Delightful Dunedin Award from the Dunedin Chamber. In 1991, he received the Dunedin Historical Society History Maker Award. And in 2000, he became a Senior Hall of Fame Award member, so he is on the wall at the Hill Center. So I personally knew Gus. Gus's claim to fame, I think, really was. He brought with him just an international perspective of communication. And his passion was always to push the community forward towards the most transparent way for people to be able to be part of government, to whether in reading newsletters or being able to watch things on television at the time through cable. Now, of course, we stream. But he was very much a frontrunner of that time to really push the community forward in what I think has continued to be a very proactive community in allowing various methods of communication so that the citizens can be more involved. So tonight really is just to say that that plaque is back on the wall. It should be in our new City Hall. I think one of the nicest things I love about Dunedin is that we don't forget where we came from. We don't forget the pioneers that kind of led us to where we are. And Gus Cooper was definitely one of those pioneers. So just wanted to recognize him. So thank you, everyone.

Very nice. Thank you.

Okay. We are going to go to citizen input. And I already know that we may have some people here wish to speak on a topic that's not on the agenda. And anyone want to come forward in three minutes? Give your name, address for the record, in three minutes.

Is this on?

You might have to push the button. Sue, is it on? I think it's on. I just want to make sure. Yeah, yeah. I don't like it's on. Okay.

My name is Joanne Holliday, spelt with two L's, Holliday. I live at 952 Virginia Street, Building K, Unit 106 in Dunedin. I moved here 20-some-odd years ago. And I'm here about the pickleball again. There were some things that I left out the last time I was here. The lights are very intrusive and invasive. I don't feel I should live in a box with my windows and blinds shut when it's a beautiful evening outside. I don't get to enjoy opening my glass lighting doors to let in the fresh air because I have to hear the pickleball. And if I open up the doors, then I have to open up the curtains and then the light comes in. Now, on the east side of my building is my living room and my bedroom. And when I have blinds closed in my bedroom, and if I want to try to lay down and rest before 10 o'clock, the north side of the building, those blinds are the same as the ones on the east side. The north side, I get no intrusive light, no residual effect of any other lights outside. However, my east window, same blinds, closed the same way, they illuminate. And I put curtains over them, and it still illuminates. I don't have blackout curtains, but I don't want to live, like I said, in a box all closed up. And I feel that when the light goes off, if I'm resting, it wakes me up. And then in the morning, when they go on, it wakes me up. However, usually I'm up pretty early, so it's more at night that really concerns me. The parking sounds, again, they're just, they're not stopping. There's so much traffic. Like, it's just too noisy, and I don't have the luxury to go by an $8,000 glass lining door to block out the sound. I can't do that. I work full time, and I need my rest. I'm not getting it. I also mentioned that I, you know, I'm recuperating from a stroke, and I'm tired. I didn't want to come here tonight because I was out in the sun working today, and I had to drag myself here. I was off at a ride. I wasn't coming. But I really feel these issues that are very important to me. So I'm going to go on to the, oh God, the lights and the sounds are invasive. They invade my personal space, and I want to emphasize that. My home is invaded with all the noise and sounds and lights and everything else, and it's not good for me. And I hope you can come to some resolution.

Thank you, Julian. Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak to an item not on the agenda? Three minutes, and if you can give your name and address for the record.

My name, my name is Ted Haynes. I live at 952 Virginia Street, Unit 206, just above Joanne. Arlen and I and our bedroom are merely feet away from the parking of the Eagle Scout Park. I appear before you this evening to congratulate you on building a beautiful pickleball court. It's very attractive, and it's been attracting people from all over the region, but that also is a problem. Frequently, the parking lot is at full capacity, if not exceeding the capacity. You'll notice they're even parking on the sidewalk. They park in handicapped spaces and then go play pickleball. I don't think they're handicapped. I'm unable to see the entire area. I can count from my lanai 41 to 46 cars at any one time. It does go down during lunch period, but it comes back up. I wish to express the losses that we have incurred. We've lost the osprey, which used to come annually in January, February, and raise their chicks, hatch their chicks and raise them. We've lost our flock of green parrots that used to reside in the trees around us and in the park and would take refuge under the osprey nest. We've lost the sound of the doves who don't come near the pickleball because it's so loud and the sound is so sharp that it chases them off. We've lost the ibis who used to come to the park scouring for nibbles. We've lost any wildlife whose habitat was in the park because of the sharp sounds of the paddles. We lost the trees in the park that cut them down. Probably needed to be cut down, but why not replace them with something that would create a habitat for wildlife, even though the birds, I mean the paddles and the balls may chase them off at the end. Our park atmosphere is gone, replaced by a crowded parking lot of cars and trucks just feet away. We've lost our peace and quiet, making it impossible to read or nap on a lanai with the windows open. We've lost property value. Prospective renters and buyers do not want a pickleball court in their backyard. We were told trees could be planted in the north loop north of the courts. We were told no parking signs would be installed.

If you could wrap up, Mr. Haynes.

It would be installed to prevent cars from parking in the wrong areas. So far, we've seen nothing. We did hear that you're cutting the hours from 15 hours to 13 hours a day. Big deal. We request the operating hours to be changed to dawn to dusk or 8 to 8.

I do need you to wrap up, though. It's three minutes. Thank you, though.

Two paragraphs and I'm done. Two sentences. Since the sound and the parking affects 45 units in our 55-plus community, I'm asking the City of Dundee to offer $10,000 per unit to soundproof their units from the pickleball court. Building sound walls will not help me because I'm above the wall. Additionally, I ask the City to consider setting up a compensation fund for $90,000 to each of these units for loss of their property values. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Haynes.

Thank you.

Anyone else wish to come forward and speak? Name, address, and three minutes.

Hi. My name is Jane Powell, and I live at 970 Virginia Street, Unit M302. I am on the third floor. I just want to jump in before I forget to say this, is that there's been talk of noise mitigation, but that's not going to help us on the second and third floors. We are above the lights. We're above the sound, and any of the noise mitigation that is going to be put into place is just going to echo into our units. So none of those things are going to help. I, again, from last time, just want to reiterate the sound and the noise and the yelling and the swearing and the loud conversations that go on from 10 until 10.30 or so. I have called Deputy, and she came up one time because people were backed in. I wanted her to see what it was like. People were backed in with their headlights shining right into our unit. And so she graciously came up, and I called again this morning because people are over there at 6.30 in the morning, and they're out there playing quarter of seven. They're all, you know, because it's light. I mean, it's daylight. It doesn't matter what time. So I want to know if there's going to be signs that are going to be put up. How is all of this going to be reinforced? Are you going to have somebody there, you know, if you change the hours, which I plead with you, please at least 8 to 8, because then at least we can go out and sit on our deck and enjoy maybe the moonrise or maybe enjoy, you know, a glass of wine without waiting until 9 o'clock, and then they're not gone until 9.30, and then by the time I've called, it's quarter of 10. And, you know, it's just not giving us any peace at all. The cards with the loud music. Why not a gate at the end of the road with a sign on it like there are in other parks? This park is closed from 8 to 8, period. Forget, you know, I mean, I know that we still are going to need signs so that people aren't parking across the sidewalks, and parking in the handicap, I guess, isn't obvious. But the sound barriers, we want to be involved in this situation and with the solution. You know, are we going to be involved and asked what we think? And, you know, once your decisions are made, are we going to be made aware of that, or is it just going to happen? And then wasting money, and we're still here complaining, you know, and I don't want to complain. This is not what I want to be doing, believe me. Same as Joanne, this is not where I want to be tonight. You know, I want to be sitting on my deck. It's a beautiful day. You know, I could leave the windows and doors open, but I can't do that. I'm up at quarter after 6, 6.30, shutting my windows so that I'm not hearing pickleball. And it goes until late at night. And so, anyway, I guess I'm just curious how it's going to be enforced, how we are going to know about it, and if we can be involved.

Thank you, Jane. Thank you. Thank you. City Manager, can you give us a little help on where we're at with this?

Sure, absolutely. So staff has met as a direct result of our last meeting and the citizen input. And, you know, the question is, what are we going to do about it, and what are we going to do about it, and what your input would be, your level of input would be. So I think, first of all, the important thing is to put together a comprehensive plan, not just one thing or another thing or another thing. So that's what's taking a bit of time in terms of we need to look at the lights and address the lights, see what can be done. We need to look at the hours and address the hours and see, you know, they can most certainly be shortened. And I've already discussed that with staff as well, to respect the morning and the evening hours and the quiet that we need in the park during those times. The other issue is, and I know that we talked in the hallway last time that you were here, Jane, and I believe that Joanne was here as well, is that, and what's really important for the city is that once we implement this, how is it enforced, right? I think the gate at the end of the access aisle is a great idea. It's a great idea. I also know Deputy Renee has been there numerous times as well, after it closes to get people out of the parking lot. So, you know, and the thing is, what we all know is that people will hop fences, they'll do all sorts of stuff and get on the courts to play. And so, you know, we would need to secure the courts as well so that they don't have access, you know, jump over that fence and then have access and they're out there at 7 a.m. So, as far as the noise mitigation and attenuation goes and the landscaping goes, I've spoken to the interim director of Parks and Recreation, Jocelyn Broadhead, about what we can plant there. That's not a noise barrier, but it's more of a visual thing for all of you and what barriers we can put in place and what we can do about the headlights and those types of things. So, let me do this. I think it would be great, and we certainly do want your input, is to, once we put the plan together, is to meet with you, representatives, and to go over what those steps are going to be. Walk the property about where it is that you're seeing the headlights, you know, because I know I had mentioned that maybe we could put up some fencing and then you said, no, that wouldn't help. So, your point that, you know, you don't want us to do this in a vacuum and then we don't address the issues. The point is also that we cannot address all of these issues. I mean, you know, we'll address as much as we can. The other part is that we have heard that there is play, you know, coming from the region, if you will. These courts were built for Dunedin residents. And so, we need to talk a little bit about how we can restrict that as well. Because, you know, if the players are all from other areas, that means the Dunedin residents are not getting on the courts, too. So, there's the other part of that. So, we do have some ideas moving forward in those terms. So, we are working on the plans. We will reach out to you and to walk through it and what the plans are. But I'm not going to do one thing at a time. It's going to be all of it. And there needs to be notice on the courts, you know, as far as the hours. And the notice needs to be, you know, with respect to the neighborhood, you know, no loud noises. These are the hours. And, you know, by what code section, it's a violation if they're there after those hours and all of those things. So, we are working on the plan. We have heard you. You know, unfortunately, I don't have a business card here. But I think I gave you one last time. Yeah. I don't have one in front of me. My little business card holder is empty. But let me write down my phone number for you. Actually, can I have one of yours, Tom? Yeah. Let me write down my phone number. And then we can arrange a time to come out to talk to you. Okay? Thank you, Mayor. Okay.

And just to be clear, is there anyone else in the audience that wishes to speak on an item that is not on the agenda? Okay, good. Okay. Okay. Seeing no one else, we will move to our next item, which is action item. Resolution 25-11, Adopting Certain Rules of Procedure for the Commission. Jen, can you please read Resolution 25-11 by title only?

Resolution 25-11, a resolution of the City Commission of the City of Dunedin, Florida, Adopting Certain Rules of Procedure for the Commission, Repealing Resolution 24-02 in its entirety and all resolutions in conflict herewith and providing for an effective date. That was Resolution 25-11, read by title only.

Okay. And can I get a motion for that?

So moved, second.

Okay. And we are going to go to staff presentation. And if you could be clear, too, between the two. That's where I got a little bit confused. You know, the one that we had already talked about and then the attorney, different actions. I don't know if you want to do them one at a time or what, but.

I think that Rebecca's prepared to do the staff report.

Okay. Sorry, Rebecca. Sorry. You were giving me the I and I wasn't reading it well, so it's all good.

Thank you. It's okay. Thank you, guys. Thank you, Mayor. And I just did want to point to, I noticed when I was printing these out, getting ready this afternoon, that when I did a save as, the underlines were not on the one that was in the agenda packet. So I did give each of you one with the red underlined. And this is Exhibit C, which are the changes that the city attorney had addressed later. But to your point, we'll start with the Exhibit B, and that is what we presented at the March 6th work session. And we had a consensus direction to move forward with those changes. And for example, the changing to the one Tuesday meeting a month and going to the two, still having the, it's a workshop, and then on your Thursday evening. And that was the major change to, and again, that was discussed at the March 6th meeting. And then, Jennifer, did you want to kind of go over? So I had a question on this one part before we go into yours.

Sure.

Sure. And I don't know if anybody else does. Does anybody else have a question on this part before we shift? Anybody over here? Okay. And that was, I know in workshops, we said workshops may include presentations and proclamations. At least my vision of the workshops is we get to get comfortable, you know, so I'm just trying to think about, I mean, I can see why you put it in here, but I wouldn't want any real fancy proclamations where, you know, because sometimes I just felt like we'll have kids and they're all dressed up with suits and ties and we look like we just came from the beach. And I just think that's not a good optic. So that's where, if we do that, I just think we need to figure out what's appropriate and what wouldn't be.

So we did discuss that. And the plan with that is that those presentations and proclamations, they would be more those that are pertaining to internal and staff functions. You know, we public works week, city clerks week, that type of a thing. So where we bring the employees in, it might be, you know, a little better for them in an informal setting to, you know, city commission can, you know, talk to them, if you will, a little bit more than if they're up on the dais. So that, you know, and that the proclamations then we found on the Thursday meetings are, I think their first Thursday meeting is the 8th. I think we have like six already. So we're trying to keep that number down as much as possible by doing internal ones. But I understand, Mayor, we'll keep it to.

Okay. So, and the other thing was that the very last sentence in commission discussion was struck, was taken out. No action may be taken upon any matter discussed during commission comments except by unanimous consent of the entire commission president at such a meeting. Now, I think that Jen put it back in, but it's out in this one. But it may be back in in the other one, so then it may make it a mute issue. Because I actually thought that's probably a good thing to, it is the, it is under commission discussion, which is six of nine, just before public comment.

So, Mayor, in the clean copy, it does state no action may be taken upon any matters discussed during commission comments except by unanimous consent of the entire commission present at the such regular meeting. And that is in the clean copy. Okay, good. So that will stay. Yes.

And, you know, just a little history, everybody. Not that I have all the history. I wasn't actually here when it happened, but there was an attempt to fire a city manager during commission comments. And that is really where that kind of came from. Because everybody thought, no, that's not appropriate to all of a sudden throw that out and want to get a complete action at the very end in commission comments section. So I just, so, anyway.

Okay, that's great.

Yeah, I know. You don't want it either, right? And I think you agree. Okay. And actually, it happened differently, thanks to Deborah Kine. So, anyway. Okay. So, yeah. So, go ahead.

Okay. So, a couple of revisions. The first revisions that you see are with regard to just some added clauses in the whereas clause of adopting this resolution, specifying that your intention is to have this as a limited public forum. This also identifies it in accordance with the ordinance that you recently passed where we talked about forums and where people can gather and how that, and what the restrictions are on this. So, this links it with your existing ordinance. It's also put in place because when doing an analysis on public comment and some of the disruptions, the first thing the court looks to is whether or not you designate this as a limited forum. And then the remainder of the revisions, I think with regard to those revisions you see under quasi-judicial, we're just to kind of clarify when the hearing, public hearing opens and closes and what happens if there isn't a second to a motion. The majority of the changes that were suggested were with regard to conduct, and those changes are based on several recent cases that have come out, including there was a case in the state of Florida that was a Moms of Liberty case, where they discussed commission rules that had some similar language and whether the court was willing to support it or not. Specifically with regard to obscenity and profanity, where there weren't definitions, they weren't as inclined. When you defined it out, and these are legal definitions of it, then they were more inclined to support that speech being objectionable and restricted during public meetings. And so that's mainly what you see there, is kind of tailoring that to those cases. Also, going in a little bit more detail as far as if, and I don't see that this has happened, at least not in my time here, but if you had a speaker that just was refusing to follow the rules, then the steps that you would take in providing warnings and such to try to get them to come into compliance before they would ultimately have to be removed. And these steps, again, have been tested in court cases, and the court has upheld them when you've followed these steps.

Are you on conduct right now?

I am. And then I think the only other thing was just to change telephone polling to polling in general. So if you have specific questions, I'll be happy to go into those. Otherwise, okay.

So I'll go questions, Vice Mayor?

No questions.

Commissioner Sandbergen?

So the commission meetings, 6 to 10, do I understand that that can be extended if necessary? Yes. By motion and a majority?

Mm-hmm.

Okay. In a special meeting, could you give me an example of when we might call a special meeting? One of you.

So your strategic planning meeting a few weeks, a couple months ago now, I guess, was a special meeting. And so a special meeting is one, the topic that...

The Marina meeting we did on the...

Correct. So it's advertised, it's the date and time, just like any meeting, but it's considered a special meeting.

I believe there was also one when you considered the noise ordinance and the changes that you were making to that because it was such a topic that you wanted to dedicate... That's a specific topic. That you wanted to dedicate a singular meeting to it.

Okay.

Okay.

Declaring a state of emergency. And also, if there is, for example, a grant opportunity that we must have your authorization on, I would not hesitate to call a special meeting 10 minutes to get your authorization that

take a minute. I just had a couple other. Just more of my... To clarify for me. On the agenda protocol, I know we have the commission questions and then we come back to commission comments. I think there was some discussion maybe combining to shorten the meetings where we ask our questions and our comments or is that anything that we could consider or is it leave it the way it is?

You certainly can. I mean, it's up to your discretion as to how you want to do that. I think that the questions are often done for the presenters at the time to glean that information before you've made your determination. And then the comments may be more of an explanation of why you're voted the way that you did.

Okay. And then my last was a perfect example of what just happened. You know, we limit the public to three minutes. And there's been some very good examples since I've been sitting up here. By the time they introduce themselves, their address, if there's a requirement of spelling, you know, they're 30 seconds into their three minutes. And I believe that the gentleman that was here, I'm not sure if we want to open it up to start talking about four minutes because then the night will get longer. But that's always been a concern of mine. And the last thing, why are speakers not sworn in at the commission meeting when they're sworn in like the LPA, for example?

So they're only sworn in when you're in a quasi-judicial proceeding. So if you're having a normal commission meeting, there's no need to take sworn testimony. But when you're having a, when you're dealing with a quasi-judicial item, then you want them sworn in because they are providing evidence for you to consider in making that determination.

Okay. That's all I had. Just, it was just more clarification and just some comments I had.

Thank you. Do you mind? Sure. Go ahead. Just to the comment before about the three minutes. So I really try, and I'm not saying I'm perfect because I'm also writing down, but I really try to let them say their name and address as I'm starting it. I make sure that they come to the podium and then say this, and that's when I start it. So I try to be very diligent with that because we did have somebody voice their concerns a few months ago. And so I do try to let them say, but then there's times that they don't say their name, you know, so I have to kind of guesstimate sometimes. Yeah, I understand. Or if they start and then they go back, I can't, you know, so, but I do try.

And I know there was a, I think it was a marina topic, and I think I heard someone say, you know, I sat here for two hours to get my two minutes, and I just, I guess, I mean, just out of respect to the public for having the courage to come forward, and I can, you know, I can, and I'm not going to say these guys' names that have come up, but, you know, they really lost a lot of their speaking time, and I appreciate it. I didn't realize that you were holding back the trigger on the timer.

Yeah, I did.

That's all I had, Mayor. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Commissioner Walker.

No additional questions.

Okay. Commissioner Dugard.

I love it.

I was just thinking that question. Thank you. Thank you.

The latitude of the chair is important to me because from time to time we get very important issues before us. We attempt to do our best in the question phase, I mean, in the comment phase and question phase, but sometimes it is necessary to go back on a question just to get the full scope of what we're deciding on, and I don't know if we need to place in this document that the chair has the authority to allow a question to be asked during comment phase or not, but I just want to hear from the chair on that issue. I choose you, Mayor.

Well, I mean, I'm not sure what the, and I was going to bring this up to the mayor's latitude because, you know, like I had pulled out, you know, no cheering, booing, everything. Well, I mean, you know, I don't want to have, you know, this, I don't want this to be robotic in here. You know, sometimes, you know, with proclamations and presentations and even sometimes in a meeting that everybody in the room agrees, I mean, I think the whole point is it's when you have contentious issues where there's very differing sides, you know, and I try to just control it at all times unless it's a presentation or a proclamation that, you know, obviously there's no controversy just to keep it even. But I guess, you know, and when you come to the time, obviously, Mr. Haynes, I could see he was trying to get finished. So I gave him a little bit more time. Maybe if there was a packed room and we had 100 people waiting to talk, I might, no, we're right to the three minutes. You need to stop. But I just want to make sure, and I appreciate your comment, like, do I have the latitude without the Gestapo rules saying, nope, this is exactly how you run this meeting?

So you do as long as you treat each person equally. So if you're going to have a speaker come up and they're going to, I'm like the gentleman this evening. He was trying to finish, but he said, I have one more sentence. And you allowed that. If the next person came up and hit their time and said, I have one more sentence, you would need to allow that.

And like tonight, there's three people. Right. We don't have a big agenda. Right.

If you have a room full and you're holding everyone to three minutes. And you need to hold it. You need to hold everyone to three minutes. Okay, good. Because there's no favoritism as to the individual or as to what their comment is. It's literally the latitude that you have in running an efficient meeting.

Okay.

Gotcha.

Okay, good. But I appreciate the question. So I think that what you're saying is I do have some latitude in some of those things without putting it in writing in here.

And question. I have follow-up. Is the actions of one committee, one commission meeting, therefore create precedence for another where she may give latitude in one and not in another? Is that a problem?

So you're going to love this. It depends. I love it. And it does. I mean, a perfect example was the circumstances that were just being described. We have a meeting tonight where we had one item on the agenda. We have the meeting that can go from 6 to 10. Not that we're going to take until 10, but, you know, that that's what we have. And so if on that meeting she allowed an extra sentence, I mean, when I say latitude, there is some, but it's a little bit. If you start going on short meetings to, okay, now you get six minutes. Right, exactly. That's very different than what the rules are providing. So you need to follow your rules. So it is somewhat.

We're still living by three minutes, but it's called humanism, right?

Right. And if you're generally three minutes, sometimes you're at 315 or 320. I don't think anyone's going to have an issue if you allowed one speaker to go to 6 or 10. And I've seen that happen in the past, and it isn't fair, especially on controversial

issues I've seen it happen.

That's right. And when you have a meeting that's 6 to 10 and you have 10 or 15 items on the agenda, one of which is very controversial and you've got half a room, you're probably going to keep everybody to three minutes. So everyone has that opportunity. Yep. Okay.

That's all I have.

Cool. Well, you took care of one of my biggest ones because I just didn't want to. And so I go back to conduct, citizen speaking on an agenda item or during citizen comment, shall not. And again, we go back to the applause, cheering, et cetera. And I think in one of your things, somebody had to accept proclamations.

Correct. And that, yes, Mayor, that is in the clean copy because that was discussed at the March 6th meeting as well. That was one of the recommendations. Well, that's why I was confused why it's not on this copy. Because it wasn't on there at that meeting. And I guess I didn't go back and put it on the workshop one. I just did it on the clean copy because it was the consensus direction to add that.

There are common sense moments in a meeting where, like, I am not going to say, yeah, we can't all cheer. I mean, so I don't know. So, you know, again, is that going to be a problem? Because it might not be the proclamation.

So if you're having a...

It might be that we're talking about the Mardi Gras and, or the, well, that's a presentation. I mean, presentation probably the same should be included in there. But, I mean, I can't think what they are. But once in a while, you do have that situation where it's in the middle of an agenda item. And it's spontaneous. And everybody's in agreement.

So, generally, what I've seen with you is with regard to action items, whether people are in favor or opposed to it, you say no...

That's true. I do keep a pretty strong handle.

No clapping, no booing. Because it would disrupt the proceedings. Right. Because you're moving through the action.

And it does, I am afraid it would set a bad precedent. That's true.

But when you're dealing with a proclamation where you're recognizing a group, I'm not sure that it's disruptive to those proceedings to clap or boo. You'd have to allow both. You know, there's some may be in favor, some may not. So, we're not limiting the content of what they're doing.

So, should it be proclamation and presentations? Because they are different, aren't they?

Do you normally have presentations where you applaud?

Yeah. I mean, like, might be the Hero Awards, the Environmental Hero Awards. Okay. You know, usually they're award-oriented, but there's not a proclamation that goes with it.

Okay. Then we could add that.

Okay.

Yeah. I like the way the senior attorney's like, really?

Yeah. I just, yeah. Well, you know, it's funny because I read all these and it's like, and trust me, I get it. They come because if, you know, if we get the bad actors, if we get a bad actor, we're going to want this. And I've seen it happen at the county.

Yeah.

I mean, where they literally like, you know, had somebody let out and then they took a hit legally for it later. Um, and no one wanted to do it after that. But, but I think again, laying the groundwork for the bad actor is a good thing. So I just want to make sure we're not too, so boxed into not being human in here.

So no, and we can easily put something that says that it's allowed during proclamations,

presentations, during proclamations and presentations. I would just add, and presentations at the end, if everybody is, we'll put that in the motion.

Okay. 24 cents an hour.

I mean, the last one I remember that was spontaneous is they started to cheer Jennifer on about something with the marina, which they've never done and they all were doing it. And she's like, Oh, thank you. I was like, continue, please. I mean, it was like, but anyway, she was begging for it. I didn't want to, I didn't want to stop it because I mean, I knew she needed a little love, but anyway. That's right. Okay. Um, okay. So, uh, any other questions for staff? Okay. Uh, I will, uh, ask if anyone in the public wishes to come forward and speak on this issue. Okay. Seeing no one, uh, I will close it, um, close public input and I will go to commission comments. I will start with the maker of the motion, uh, commissioner or vice mayor Gow.

Uh, no comments.

Okay.

And, uh, seconder of the motion, commissioner Walker.

Oh, it looks great. Uh, incorporates all the comments from our last discussion and, uh, you know, there are always lessons to be learned in every given year. So it looks great to me. Thank you.

Okay. I'll go to commissioner to guard.

I think this is necessary. Uh, I recall back when we were dealing with the noise ordinance, I was simply a member of the gallery at the time and I sat in on the LPA meeting and we saw how applause could really disrupt the proceedings there and intimidate and intimidate and really lead to what I considered fractured decision-making. And so this is necessary and we have to have it and the chair has to feel they have the authority. The authority, the mayor has the authority to bring the gallery back into order. So I'm in favor.

Uh, okay. Commissioner Sandbergen.

Nothing to add. It's perfect. Thank you.

Okay. I, I agree with it as well. I think it's, uh, it's good. And, uh, so, uh, all in favor.

Aye. Aye.

Any opposed? Oh, roll call. Oh, yes. I'm sorry. It's a, it is a resolution. Okay. So voice vote.

Roll call vote. Thank you. Um, commissioner Sandbergen.

Aye.

Commissioner Dugard.

Aye.

Commissioner Walker. Aye. Vice mayor Gow.

Aye.

And mayor Franey. Aye.

And that motion passes unanimously. Great. Okay. We're going to go to proposed agenda for May 8th commission meeting. Any additions or changes? And as you can see, we will, we will light things up here with our first official longer meeting on a Thursday. So is the, uh, Coca-Cola thing staying on?

Do you think Coca-Cola?

No. I think that, um, that's going to end up getting pushed right now. We're looking at, they have to take it through their process, which is, um, there's some time associated with that. So it'll probably be June. Okay. Microphone. Sorry. I was doing so good too. Um, so yeah, it'll likely be June.

Okay. Sounds good. Any other changes? We good. Okay. Um. So remove the Coca, is that move the Coca-Cola? Remove Coca-Cola. So can I get a motion to approve?

So moved. Second.

Okay. All in favor?

Aye. Aye.

Aye. And that motion passes unanimously. Um, I'm sorry. Sure. In that motion for 25-11, we should have had a recommendation. I had a recommendation to add, um, and presentations in the motion, um, because you wanted to add that. That way it wouldn't.

Okay. So the maker of the motion was the Vice Mayor Gao and Commissioner Walker was a seconder. Are there, is that a friendly amendment?

As far as I'm concerned. Yeah. Yeah. I'm good. Okay.

Okay. So we will, uh, if everyone's in agreement, we'll go ahead and do the, uh, the roll call vote one more time. I'm sorry. Including the presentation being added to that area.

Commissioner Sandbergen. Aye. Commissioner Dugard. Aye. Commissioner Walker. Aye. Vice Mayor Gao.

Aye.

And Mayor Franey.

Aye. And that motion passes unanimously. Good catch.

Okay.

Yep.

That's good. It's B. Official. Okay. Any other informational items for the good of the order? Well, I do want to say that I am saddened that I will be gone, uh, for all the library festivities next week, but I will be out of town. And so I would ask all of you to, you know, just, uh, you know, give my best to everything. I hate being gone for that, but, um, it is what it is, but, um, should be a lot of fun and lots of well-deserved, um, kudos for our library. So I did want to say that. So anybody else? Okay. This meeting is a cardboard cutout for you. There we go. This meeting is officially adjourned.

I'll stand in for you. There you go.

Yeah, you can stand in.