Okay, we are going to open our first budget hearing, not budget hearing, budget workshop. So, and I'll just start by saying, normally, we would be in our circle on the floor, but because of last night, we didn't have time to do the tradition. Hi, Lily, I just saw you back there. And, which is a little more informal, so we got a little more informally dressed, but it'll be a little bit different, but we'll do that. And I think we just want to start with City Manager Cummins. Yes, good morning. Thank you, Mayor, Vice Mayor, and Commissioner. And staff. I think we have the entirety of our professional staff here, and we're going to have to feed you all lunch, too. So, I hope we budgeted for that, Les. Yeah, good. All right, very good. So, my opening remarks. This is your first budget workshop on the fiscal year 2026 budget. God bless you. Traditionally, we have, first of all, a municipal business plan workshop, and we did not do that this year. Given our strategic planning and our digital budget book, we're now able to say at a higher level, and the municipal business plan is an operating instrument for staff. And so, we are going to talk. I just want to run through the agenda, if I may, Mayor. We are going to talk about some new initiatives and CIP projects. That's capital improvement program projects in fiscal year 2026. And that will be staff that will be circulating in and out of the hot seat over there to talk to you about new initiatives. We're going to item number three, a city commission discussion on initiatives and CIP projects. And throughout the year, either on the dais or during our one-on-one meetings, the commission talks about some of the things that you'd like to see moving forward in the budget for our next fiscal year. And this will be your opportunity to do that. And a lot of times, you know, it may be an item that we need to take back and have a look at and analyze and let you know what the cost is. There may be no cost. There may be a lot of staff time. Whatever it is, traditionally, we take your suggestions, your initiatives, and do an analysis of those initiatives. We have a really good slide that Les and Jean and finance staff have prepared regarding storm-related expenses and reimbursement. And that's been a question in the community, how much did it cost and how much do we need to spend and where is it coming from? And so, and that slide is informational only. It's something that we want to put before you early as we proceed through the budgeting process. And then we're going to do a fund-by-fund review of the baseline assumptions and the long-range projections for all of our 21, I believe, funds in our fiscal year 2026 budget. We're going to talk about the personnel requests from staff. I've always committed to staff that I will tell the commission what you've asked for, meaning what staff has asked for and what I'm going to recommend that you fund in fiscal year 2026. And then we'll have city commission direction thereafter. Sounds like we'll get done by noon. But in fact, our goal is to get done by 4 p.m. And the reason for that is that we will open it for public input at 4 p.m. Sometimes we have members of the public. Sometimes we have some of our organizations come in to address the city commission at budget time. So with that, Mayor, I will hand it over if it's all right with you. Yeah, I just want to kind of set the stage for what we want to accomplish today versus in our other two workshops. Very good. So today is, it's really a review of the information that we have. You know, the action is suggestions, consensus to move forward with maybe an initiative to analyze it or something like that. But it really is an informational day. You adopted last night the millage rate of 4.1345, which is the maximum millage rate. And we can go less, but not more. And so that has been established already by the city commission by resolution last night. So that was your formal action. And today it's informational. So I guess I just want to make sure, too, since we have two new commissioners as well, so first budget process for them that, you know, this is kind of getting to know it. You have plenty of time if you want to, you know, if you think something should be added or should be taken away or whatever. I mean, there's lots of, we'll have lots of time to discuss that. And I think probably our second budget workshop gets into a little bit more drill down. So it really is just kind of getting to know it, making sure you're comfortable or, you know, and again, I mean, any, you know, any question is not a bad question. So, okay. Yeah. Thank you, Mayor. And Les and Jean? Well, let me ask just quickly. Does anybody else have any clarifying questions of the commission? Everybody good? Okay. All right. Here we go. Let's kick off. Good morning, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commissioners. Les Tyler, the Finance Director. I'm here with Gene Horsewater, our budget manager. I want to mention, Jennifer mentioned that we have a digital budget book. I just want to mention first year we've done that, and we did that using ClearGo, and that's on our website. And it's, I think it's a little more user-friendly for the public to read that document. We have our hard copy here, of course, that many of us use, but I want to mention that we do have a little different format, and we've gotten some positive comments from people that it's easier to read. So I just wanted to mention that. Starting with the slide, first area is our new initiatives, and the goal here is to have each department that has new projects and initiatives to go through them briefly. If the commission has questions, please ask them. I also want to mention that Nicole is going to hand out a hard copy of the BPIs and CIPs, a summary form, so you'll have that in front of you as we sort of walk through this. And the first is community development department, so I'll turn it over to George. Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commissioners, thank you. George Kinney on behalf of community development. So we are asking for one business plan initiative this year. It's articulated, obviously, in the plan sheets that you have. So the commission may recall early last year approving a plan for Beltreys, a safe street plan, if you will, or a complete street plan for Beltreys Street. One of the things we wanted to do was implement some of those recommendations as quickly as we could, and one of the consistent recommendations throughout the plan was reviewing and providing ADA-compliant curb ramps at all the intersections along Beltreys. And if you'll remember, it's that section between Alt-19 and Patricia. So this is really a request to do— Is the new initiative on here somewhere? I'm sorry? Is the new initiative on here? Yes, it's listed on the—another change with our new system and the fact that we've stepped away from the epic goals. It's got—the projects are going to be listed by department. Okay. And then by alphabetical order. So you should be able to see community development. Okay, I got you. So I see it new. I see Beltreys. I just want to make sure everybody sees a Beltreys Street ADA improvements. Correct, yeah. And new—okay. I just want you all to be on the same page. So the overall ask is for $15,000 to do—to run that initiative, to basically look at our—have somebody look at our intersections and prioritize improvements to those intersections. We are anticipating that funding to come from the Multimodal Transportation Fund at this point, but we also—I'm 99.9% convinced that we can find grant money to fund this project. Any questions about it up here? Commissioner? So is—you said—could you explain again? I caught ADA, and I mean, I know this stretch of road very well. Could you tell me again, besides—was it ADA ramps, you said? Yeah. So the idea, Commissioner, is to bring in a consultant to analyze each of those intersections in that particular segment of the Beltreys between, again, Alt-19 and Patricia, and then to have that consultant articulate what are needed to make them ADA compliant and prioritize those compliance. Mayor, may I ask? Yes, please. Not that I want this part of the business initiative this year, but I know when the study was done, there was also the conversation about a roundabout. Is that still part of the overall concept? Absolutely. That's one of the recommendations in the plan. We're not quite there yet. We kind of want to do it a little bit incrementally, but we'll certainly get there. Thank you. And I don't know who to ask this question to, since Jennifer's not here, but this is part of our overall transition plan. Like, I know we're updating our ADA transition plan. Does this fit into that, or do you know, George? I can wait until Jennifer comes back. Yeah, I'm not 100% sure. I know there was some discussion coming out of the Traffic Committee regarding some improvements to a specific intersection that could be rolled into this. So, and I believe that was— Okay. That's okay. I mean, I know, I think ADA is under Teresa, but we can talk about it later. I just—I'm in favor just because I think that it's really important that we're all over some of our ADA stuff and making sure we're compliant and doing what we need to do. You know, we have an older citizenry, too, so it's important. Okay. Go ahead. So, who's the consultant that provides those recommendations? So, we got an estimate through our general consulting list. We're not—if this—when this is approved, we can pick from that list or we can go out for bid if we want to. Okay. But nobody selected specifically at this moment, Commissioner. Okay. There's no other questions. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. The next item is finance, and this is a penny five initiative. This is for us to begin the process of the city working with the commission to develop a list of projects. And, Les, when you do it, could you just tell us where the item is in here? Sure. That's what I'm trying to, you know— Yeah, sure. I think I see it. I see it now. It's on the second page. Yeah, second page, right. Finance. Yeah, I got you. Your way with him? Take the seventh item down on the second page, so. And this has no cost impact. You know, this is just a study that will put together the list of projects working with the commission and then work through and identify our signature projects, you know, as they work through that. Based on penny four, the timing back then, it seemed like the county will be wanting that information from us by March to June next year, roughly. So we want to get in front of that and begin that process as soon as the budget's over, start that process with the commission. And, you know, we have a list of projects that we, to begin with, to start looking at and then, you know, working through those and prioritizing those is what the goal would be. And I did want to mention there's actually a discussion regarding the county's upcoming penny for Pinellas campaign, and that's going to be at the City Manager Consortium breakfast on August 1st, next Friday, actually. So we'll get some more updates on timing and kind of big picture after that meeting. But we want to start looking at it and identifying the projects and work through that with the commission. Mayor, if I could. Jorge Akinz is Deputy City Manager. To Les's point, at the next City Manager's Consortium breakfast, there will be that conversation the county's presenting their proposed plan for the penny campaign. Myself and Superness will be attending so that we can make sure that we get ahead of that and can develop, as Les mentioned, our signature projects so that we can get that rolled into the campaign as far as for the next penny. So is the intent at that meeting to show us the timeline of when it would actually go to the voters and all that? I believe so, but, you know, once, they usually provide that information after the meeting. So once I receive that, I'll go ahead and distribute it to the commission and the department heads as well. Any questions on this? I need a little bit of a briefing on how much we received last year from penny, just so I get some context. Sure, I can, you know, we're at about 5.1 million right now, annually, from Penny for Pennellas, currently. And also, you know, if it's consistent with the last, with Penny for, it will go to the voters in November of 2027, if it's consistent with that. Right, so it's going to come up quick. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Thank you. Anybody else? Yeah, is that, in terms, is that a ballot initiative where it requires a petition, or is this something that the county can just put on the ballot? That I'm not sure of. Yeah. It definitely has gone on the ballot, but I'm not sure exactly that process. I think it's just been automatically on the ballot as long as they, yeah. Okay. That's my understanding. It gets placed on the ballot. It doesn't require. Right. And I think it was like 80, it won by 87% last time or something like that. It was a high percentage. It was hugely, you know, but different days, so we'll hope for the best. So, in the penny money, when we receive that, does that have specific earmarks? Are we required to spend it the way we are being told to spend it, or can we do anything with it? Yeah, you know, it's got to be on capital. It's got to be on capital projects, and it's got to have a useful life of at least, I think it's five or seven years. They are pretty flexible on what they consider capital, you know, because there are projects that they allow that are, you know, sort of, you know, quasi-operating capital, but in general, it's capital projects, yeah. Commissioner, if the rules haven't changed for infrastructure sales tax, the requirement is that it has to be a seven-year return on investment as far as being able to submit that capital project, and it has to demonstrate that it has at least a seven-year service life. Can you give me an example of something in town we might have? For example, pavement preservation. We easily, you know, the resurfacing that we do easily has a 10-year service life, and so that's why we can do our current pavement for preservation program has two-thirds funding. Two-thirds comes from the penny. One-third comes from gas tax, but it has to be a project that has the ability to demonstrate that it has a service life of at least seven years. Thank you. Anybody else? I mean, this is huge, so actually I had that on my list of things that we needed to work towards, so that's great. So next. Good morning, Mayor, Commissioners. So the first initiative, Michael Handoga, Deputy Fire Chief, the first issue in the fire department initiatives are the bunker gear drying equipment, and then basically what this is, is we have to wash our bunker gear much more frequently now due to NFPA regulations. Anytime it's exposed to any type of carcinogen, smoke, and an IDLH, the gear has to be washed. That's to reduce exposure to carcinogens in the cancers. So this system will now allow, a bunker gear drying system, after it's washed, it doesn't sit hanging necessarily, just, you know, letting it air dry. It's a system that forces air and gets the bunker gear drier quicker, less of ability to have mold issues or anything like that. So it returns the bunker gear into service much quicker. Okay. Mayor, do you want me to go through all of them first? I want you to go through all of them first, and then people can ask questions. Next one is... And how come you're the first one to have more than one? I guess that's my first question. Go ahead. Hi. Next one is the computer replacement program, or computer replacements for operations and administration. So this really comes out of an initiative from Pinellas County Emergency Communications and a group called PRIME. So the PRIME is Pinellas County Emergency Communications... I'm sorry, Pinellas County and Records Management. So it's our 911 and our CAD system, which is a computer-aided dispatch system, which we get all of our calls for service, and it has the GPS in it so they know where our vehicles are. The PRIME group, led by the Sheriff's Office, has completely recognized that our current system is end-of-life and not serviceable, essentially, in the near future. So they have gone out and contracted with a company called Hexagon, and they are developing the software and the system for us to use going forward. With that, though, there are minimum requirements for hardware, such as screen size, the hard drives, the processors, and our current system doesn't meet that. So this would be essentially in order for us to maintain communications with the county and get our calls, we would have to go to this. This system also is used for, in our EOC, for when we dispatch fire and emergency calls, when we're running our EOC, we actually end up becoming the dispatch center for the city when we are in the emergency operations center, and the requirement is for the administrative personnel that are running the emergency operations center to have some pretty beefy computers that can run these systems. So that's what we're asking for there. Next is the dry suits and PPE for water rescues. During last year's hurricane season, we saw a significant amount of flooding in the coastal areas, and we responded to those rescues with personnel in John Boats, some high-water rescue vehicles with Pinellas County, the Sheriff's Office. So our personnel who are actually in the water, though, need to be protected. So some of the risk factors in flooding waters are there's biological contaminants, sewage bacteria, different viruses, chemical pollutants, there's sharp debris, all sorts of electrical hazards, and we need the equipment to protect our personnel that are going to be in those waters. So we did have equipment, a lot of that was end-of-life before the last storm, and it became end-of-life at that storm, so it pretty much got used all the way up. So we're looking for replacement equipment so we can service those flooded areas if needed. Next is the engine and fire overhaul on a reserve apparatus. So we are looking to have, once we receive our newest engine, which should be here in December of this year, we are looking to take one of the engines that we are going to be moving into reserve status and send it to get an engine overhaul or replacement and an overhaul of the pump, the fire pump. So we're seeing that there is an increased downtime of our primary apparatus, and that's much to the fact that lead times on parts is just unbelievable. So we pulled the numbers just for June last month, and our primary apparatus had 626 hours of out-of-service time. So we rely heavily on our reserve apparatus to fill that role when our primary apparatus is out-of-service for mechanical reasons or for whatever it needs to be out-of-service for. So we want to make sure that these reserve apparatus are up-to-top-notch, they're able to pass pump tests, and they can serve the public for another five years once they're put into reserve status. So we have two engines that we would look at sending to be overhauled, and one in December we would get with fleet and our mechanics on staff to determine which one of the two engines would be our first one to get overhauled so it can serve the public after. Next, firefighter agility training equipment. So we're asking for equipment called fire sled. What this is, it's equipment that is physical agility training equipment that mimics fire ground tasks. It has equipment set up for victim shrags, hose advancement, forcible entry simulation, ladder carries, and stair climbs. It's a whole system that has been vetted and designed specifically for the job tasks that firefighters do. This is for daily training to improve their physical endurance and their agility while they do the job. The other advantage is that we would also have the ability to do pre-hire physical agility testing on site. Currently, when we have someone who we offer a job to, they're required to complete a PAT, or what's called a physical agilities test. And those are done by third parties. We are often at their whim as far as when they have a schedule and when they have availability to do it. And also, there is a cost involved. There's typically about $150 to do that. So we would like to bring that in-house, be able to do that with our personnel, and then also the advantage of having this equipment here all the time to use it. Also, one of the things would be to reduce injuries through conditioning. So there'd be a workman's comp and injury. The hope would be that there's a workman's comp and injury reduction due to the training. Next is the rigid hull inflatable boat. This, again, is to support the mission of rescuing people during floodwaters, during the flooding. We had two John boats. While they were effective, they did not. They didn't have the abilities to hit all of the areas. They're slow. They can only basically take two patients at a time. So we are looking to go with a rigid hull inflatable boat. This will give us the ability to work in a little bit faster moving waters, where in some of these neighborhoods, as the water was coming and coming out, it was a challenge for our John boats to navigate in those waters and overcome some of the currents. So basically, this is enhancing the ability to reach those individuals in the floodwater. And it basically moves much better in those situations. And we definitely demonstrated the need. We had over 100 emergency, 10911 calls during the flooding, and we successfully rescued 65. So this would also just, again, enhance the ability and have more resources to be able to send to those calls. And last but not least is the justification of the request for future purchase years. We identified it in fiscal year 2028, looking to purchase what's called a SHERP vehicle. I don't know if you have had the opportunity to see these. These are a vehicle. Tampa Fire, Hillsborough Fire, Hillsborough Sheriffs, and Hillsborough Fire Rescue as well, purchased multiple of these units for last year's hurricane season. And they're very effective. They are amphibious vehicles. They have very large tires. They can go through any conditions, essentially. They can operate in water. They can operate on land. And we found that even in our areas that got flooded, there was areas that the high water rescue vehicles from the sheriff's office couldn't reach. And then the boats were taking a long time just because of the distance that we had to go to get someone and then bring back two people at a time. So the SHERP vehicle is, we did a lot of research. It could even be outfitted with firefighting capabilities so that we were in a situation where we couldn't reach multiple houses and residential areas that had fires. So this would be a tool that would be able to carry a fire pump and then, again, start, you know, trying to put some of those fires in the flooded areas. All right. I think that's it. So questions? So, Mike, on number one, bunker gear drying equipment, could you be a little more descriptive of exactly what we would be buying? So what it is, it's a, essentially there's, it's a rack and you, you put the bunker gear, kind of the equipment that you had on, you put that on essentially holders and it almost looks like a mannequin. You put it on and it's forced air through this and it dries it in a much quicker. And one at each station or just one? So right now we're looking for two. So we'd be putting them at two of the stations right now. Okay. And, uh, on that computer replacement, uh, I don't know if you were, if I understood exactly, are we being forced into that to be compliant with transmission, radio transmissions with the, with the county? Is that what you were saying? Essentially, yes. Um, in order for us to, to, to utilize the system, it needs to have the minimum requirements. Um, this has been an ongoing, uh, process with Pinellas County and, uh, Prime. It's going to be going on for several years. Uh, the anticipated turn on date would be, uh, some doing some live training at the end of this year with a go live of early next year, but it's still a process and it's not necessarily been, it's not a guarantee. Uh, so with that, and that's a good point I should have brought up. Um, if it does not go forward and the, and the system does not meet what the, uh, contract electoral requirements were, we would not be required to purchase this. And, uh, I'm not sure you're the right person to ask, but since it sounds like it's being sort of forced upon us, is there county money available, state money? Negative. Okay. And the last thing was, uh, um, that SHERP, I think that's really fascinating. Uh, where's something like that made? Is that something here in the U.S. or what is that? It's actually, um, it, it's a company that originated out of Ukraine. Um, but they, so that was, I, we had a lot of questions about that. It's actually on the state, uh, contract, um, purchasing bid through the Florida Sheriff's Office. So it's been vetted, uh, at the state level, uh, and to be able to be purchased under the cooperative. Um, but we definitely had, we had concerns, you know, about the parts and all that. And they said it, everything is basically off the shelf and very, they have designed it to be extremely low maintenance and to be, it's like a very basic diesel engine and, and the parts are very accessible. Good. That's all I had, Michael. Thanks, Mayor. I'll say, Vice Mayor, do you have anything? Thank you, Mayor. Uh, Michael, how do we currently dry our bunker gear? We hang it or we throw it in front of big fans and it's not effective. It doesn't dry quickly at all. And, and not quickly. What, what's the difference in timeframe? So the problem is that you, you end up with washing the gear and then it sits there hanging and it starts the, it will start to mildew if it's, if it's lasting too long. Um, you can get these, uh, a full set of bunker gear dried in this system, I believe in an hour. So, and it's not using high heat because you don't want to subject the, um, the bunker gear to a high heat. So it's like a, like a lower constant heat. So we don't want to subject bunker gear in the fire department to high heat. So it's, we don't want to subject it constantly to that, to that. You, you know, yes, I understand what you're saying. Yes, it is designed to go into high heat, but in a, you don't constantly want to throw it into a dryer or something like that. That's why it, it, the, the regulations or the, uh, the specifications, basically you don't throw bunker gear into a, a traditional, uh, dryer. Yeah, well, you don't want it to shrink. Yeah, that too. And I have that problem all the time with my surgery. And the, and the dry suits, how durable are dry suits? So they are, they will protect from the, the chemicals, the, the biologicals, the gasoline, and, you know, anything that's in, in the water. Um, as far as like, you know, ripping and stuff, they will get, they'll provide an additional layer of protection to, to skin. Um, but if they go up against something that's very sharp, it's going to rip. I mean, they're, it's like a neoprene. Uh, you've probably seen them in, um, you know, like this full dry suit, essentially. So they can, they protect themselves from the water. And the Sherp vehicle, I, I know all the departments talk to each other and you mentioned the departments that, that have them and they're the much bigger departments. Mm-hmm. I, have you talked to any other municipal departments in the county or surrounding counties? How many are getting them? So the, uh, Penelope County Sheriff's Office is evaluating those currently, uh, and looking at potentially getting some. They have not pulled the trigger on them. Um, like I said, Hillsborough, like all of Tampa, Tampa Fire, Tampa Police, Hillsborough Fire, Hillsborough, uh, Sheriff's Office. They purchased, I want to say it was about 10 of them all together. And I've been very happy with their, um, with, with the product so far. Um, used down in South Florida. They're, they're used throughout the state. That's all that I have. Thank you. Oh, uh, Commissioner Walker. Thank you, Mayor. On the bunker gear drying equipment, it seems to me this came up last year or maybe the year before. Is this, uh, a more recurring type of purchase or what? No, we have not, we have not, we, uh, we have not purchased a bunker gear drying system yet. Okay. I think it may have been proposed at one point, but then we did not get through. That's probably what I remember. Yeah. Yeah. Um, on the computer replacement, um, you mentioned there was a compliancy issue. And I think you said that if we didn't go forward with it, we would be, well, not only not compliant, but basically not required to be compliant. Not re, I'm sorry. That's so if, if this wasn't purchased, what's the impact to y'all? The ability to, to operate in the vehicles and get the, the calls may be greatly compromised. Um, the information that's on the screens, the screen size of the ones we currently have, um, is much smaller than what the new system wants, the requirements of the new system. Because of the information that they're, they're sending to us, it's the way they have their screen set up in their program. Um, it will not fit on our screens. It'll be too small. They won't be able to see it. Okay. Um, and on the, on the rib, uh, could you just explain the difference between the John boat and the rib? Um, so the, uh, the John boat is an aluminum, looks like an aluminum fishing boat, essentially. Um, we, we had some issues, especially in the area down off of, um, uh, Bay shore where, uh, we would deploy the boat and it would, the way the roads are and the, the areas that they're going, it would be, it would be fine. And then the road would go up. So now the John boat can't get across. So we're literally dragging, uh, you know, Lieutenant Denison, who's here in the room today. And, um, he was on a, one of the rescue crews, him and another firefighter literally had to drag this aluminum boat across, you know, the, the road. And it, it just became absolutely, uh, a problem. It was encumbering to them and it, it impacted the amount of rescues and the timeliness of the rescue. So we, we looked at all the different options and this was the best thing that we could find for what we were looking for. So the rib gives you a heck of a lot more flexibility. Correct. Yeah. And it, it's a lot more stable. Um, some of the, the people that we're trying to get in, you know, it just, it starts, you know, compromising the stability of the boat when you're trying to get these people in. So. Okay. All right. Thanks. Some of my questions. Uh, commissioner Dugard. Thank you, mayor. Um, I'm looking at the spreadsheet in front of me and what I'm seeing is about $794,000 worth of requests of which, uh, 372,000 appears to be out of the 26 cycle. So help me understand if we're just focusing on the balance for the 26 or are we actually looking to, um, give consent or approval. Or approval on the entire package I'm looking at. I, I would say, I would say we're mainly focusing on the 26 budget if, uh, I would say, yeah. All right. So you're just informing us about these things in 27 and 28, particularly the amphibious all-terrain rescue and fire suppression vehicle. Is that right? Is that right? Yes. Yes. That is correct. So, so we're showing you, uh, and, and, uh, like the all-terrain vehicle actually was requested this year? Yes. And it was moved out. And so, um, we're looking to populate it, uh, or purchase it in the future. But I want you to know what's coming down the pike. But you are, and I probably should have said that in the opening comments, you are looking at this fiscal year, everything on the, on the yellow line. Uh, that's all I have. I think all the other questions have been sufficient. Thank you. And again, Jennifer, we're, you know, we're all getting kind of the explanations today. So it doesn't mean the door's closed as we move through our budget workshops. If we think one in particular isn't appropriate or whatever, we can question. We can bring it up at any time during budget workshops. Correct. But you are kind of trying to get a basic. Right. Understand that we're good. Yes. Absolutely. Okay. Um, I have a couple questions. Um, the agility and training equipment, what specifically is it? So it's a... And is it in the wellness room? No. It would, uh, this is something that would, it typically gets put in the apparatus bays because of the, the size of the course. We don't have a inside area big enough to, to house all of it. And it's, it's flexible equipment where you can, it can be put up against the walls when not being used. It can be pulled out and set up in the bays. Um, a lot of things like you, you've probably seen like the firefighter challenge, the firefighter combat challenge. It, it's similar to some of those things. Um, but yes. So. Okay. And then, um, yeah, I got to ask about the amphibious all-terrain vehicles. So where, where would you go with it? Like, give me an example from Helene where, gee, I wish we'd had that vehicle. So the coastal areas west of, um, Altern 19, absolutely. Um, we would have used that. It would have been a huge asset to, um, to, to get into those neighborhoods. So meaning going, like going to, yeah, okay, so traveling down Santa Barbara Drive? Yeah, all, all of those. Meaning because you could go through the water? Correct. And it will actually float if the, if the, if the depth of the water is more than the tire would reach the ground, it will, it will float. In theory, you could put it in and get to Caledicia if needed. And I know that the Vice Mayor asked, kind of asked this, but, um, well, did ask it. But so anyone in Pinellas County where we have all the water or do they have them? No, not yet. Okay. Okay. I mean, I'm not saying that doesn't mean it's a good idea, but I'm just curious. Um, okay. I don't have any other questions right now. So, okay. Thank you. Mayor, I just wanted to let you know, um, Michael Nagy just reminded us, um, on the computer replacements, um, if the, um, program with the county does not go through, we probably will need to, um, if we can leave some budget, we need to have some budget for regular computer replacements that were scheduled this year. Right now, because we have this in the, in the works, regular computer replacements are not being done because they have to replace everything. Um, but if the county's system does not go through, we still then have to make sure we can budget for the normal budget, whatever is coming up for replacement this year. Got you. Okay. Some of it's crossover money no matter what. And actually that reminded me of a question that Commissioner Sandberg kind of hit on. I mean, we still get 17% back from the county for everything we put in. Typically about 12%. Yes. What is it? About 12%. Okay. Well, see, I'm overestimating, but you know. Okay. Sounds good. Okay. I just Googled that, uh, Sherp. Nice. That's... Yeah, I Googled it, too. I better... So, hold on. Let me... So, I do want... See, this is... I do want to... I want to frame this. I don't want to influence, honey. The tires actually are the propeller for it. So, and it's... It is. It looks like this really wild, crazy device in this crazy vehicle. So, Tarpon Springs, after the 23 hurricane season, they lost several mobile homes in a mobile home park that no one could get to. Our brush truck went up there. They had a fire boat, like, any... They were throwing anything they could to try to get to this mobile home park because it was separated by water. No one could get to it. So, within a month after the storm, they went to Texas and bought something called an Acela, and they are working on getting a fire pump. It's a... It's a high water vehicle. It looks like an old military vehicle, but just redone. That vehicle is more expensive than the Sherp, and essentially it has less capabilities, in my opinion. So, while it looks wild, it actually is a biggest bang for the buck. The Sherp will float. These Acela high water vehicles or some of these other ones, they're... Once it gets to a certain level above the tire, it can't go through any further. We're looking to eliminate all the obstacles and be able to get to wherever we need to get, and this will do it. See, I'm like... I looked at it, and I'm thinking... All due respect to all the firefighters, but I'm thinking, toy? Useful. Okay? Yeah, parade, kids excited, or useful. I will... I'll work with Tampa. Yeah. All right. Yeah. We will get one here as a demo. We can get... I can get one from Tampa or Hillsborough to come over, and so you guys can actually see it at some point, you know, as it gets closer, and we're moving forward with it. Well, it is intriguing. I guess you could rescue somebody who hasn't evacuated, even though that's rewarding bad behavior. If somebody hasn't evacuated, and you can't, you know... We did that... I don't know. I don't know. It's 165 times during the storm, so unfortunately, I think we're still going to see that. Okay. Okay. There we go. But that's in a future year, so we don't have to really determine that. Mayor, if I may say something about that. From my perspective, and the SHERP is a very nice vehicle, but what I'm concerned about is what's facing us in the future and not having the equipment to address it. Like the rigid inflatable boat, that was a no-brainer for me to be able to get into the neighborhoods. But as it gets worse, what I don't want is for those calls to come in requesting rescue, and we don't have any capability. So I'm very concerned about that. Well, I mean, in fairness, you know, some of my neighbors didn't evacuate. And one of my neighbors was on the, you know, like the water board, rescuing people from their homes. And our little cul-de-sac. So, I mean, I know there's very legitimate issues. And the good news is I don't think anybody will stay next time. Right. Thank you. Okay. Sorry, go ahead. So I noticed on the website that the SHERP comes with an optional contained trailer, too. Is that true? We're getting deep in this one. We're sure. Salesman. Yeah. It's going to pop up all our phones. So, yes, that is what we'd be looking at. And that's, as a system, you can put some firefighting capability onto that. And that's, there's a system that actually, the trailer is, it contains water. So you can use it, you know, granted if you're in, it gets used in wildland fires and everything like that. But in our situation, we would probably outfit it with a pump. I'm assuming there's going to be a lot of water if we're in it in the coastal area. So we'd be able to just essentially draft from the flood water. So that's pretty cool. I think it's just interesting, the questions the men are asking. And the exciting look on their face. They all get the free ride in it. So I'm going to get the thing. Okay. Okay. All right. Teresa. Good morning, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Commission. Teresa Smalling, Director of HR and Risk Management, as well as the city's liaison to the Penelope County Sheriff's Office. I'm not sure I can follow a sharp. I don't have anything as exciting. But I'm here to talk about the impact fees from law enforcement. Those are fees that are charged to developers with new development. So as you get new development, you need more law enforcement services. So right now we have about $80,000. And we spoke with the Sheriff's Office as to what they thought would be helpful to use that for. And we were all in agreement. Currently, we have a special event safety barriers initiative under our CIP projects. We had purchased six, eight barriers. The barriers are used downtown for the special events as a safety measure, eventually replacing all the trucks and the solid waste vehicles that are being used. It has been a successful program. The Sheriff's Office has some through a regional grant. And we have been sharing our resources throughout the county, as a matter of fact, for the barriers, because very few cities have the barriers. So with the $80,000, we're looking to increase our amount of barriers that we have. Also look into more permanent safety measures downtown, such as possible bollards, because it's not just always special events that create need for additional security. So those are the things that we will be looking at for using that $80,000 with. Any questions? Anybody? Just to confirm, this is to buy more barriers than what we already have, right? Correct. Barriers and also the beam gate. We purchased beam gates that help with ingress and egress for the fire department and the vendors during the special events. Okay. Thank you. Mayor, ma'am. Yes, please. Teresa, I'm just confused. And so it's certainly me. But it seems we want $80,000 to purchase new stuff. But what's the tie back to an impact fee? So it's the impact. We're not asking for this money. We have this money. And we're recommending what we'd like to use this money for. So it's not that we're asking for money in the budget, you know, additional monies. This money is already there. It has to be used for public safety. Okay. All right. Thank you. The Ford Mustang that would help with traffic interdiction. But we decided not. We actually spoke to the sheriff's office. They have baked in their budget two electric bikes, you know, the ones that go fast. Oh, that's good. So if it wasn't in their budget, if it didn't make it, first of all, I was going to call and ask the sheriff to make sure it is. But it already is. But we were going to spend the money on that. So I would say that that probably came in second. So this is we originally had a whole lot more budgeted. And we actually pushed that out, took it out, and we're replacing it with this. So we have a need for like something like over 70, I think, of those types of barriers in the downtown. But we're able to work with the sheriff's office and buy our own barriers and make sure that we're safe. We would like to put some bollards in the future right around the living room there and that type of a thing. So you might see that in a future budget year. But for now, I mean, this is really part of that whole initiative that we've been working on for a while. But the sheriff is getting electric bikes. Yes. The fast ones. Right. How many are they getting? Two. Mm-hmm. Okay. I got another email about trail safety and actually electric bikes on sidewalks specifically. Yeah. I got to still respond to, but I was on the trail the other day and we're walking the way we're supposed to and three electric bikes. I mean, tell you, it just scared the crap out of us because they just fly by you. Yeah. And like, you know, you're supposed to have bicycles coming, you know, at you this way so you can dodge them. But the way that you're supposed to go on the trail, I don't know, it's an accident. And right now the problem is that the sheriff's office can't catch them. But they were flying, let me tell you. And there was no pet, they weren't doing any pedals, that's for sure. I wonder if they're going to have like little sirens and lights on them. Little bikes. I know. I'll tell you what, it's just a matter of time. Okay. Sounds good. Any other questions? Are we good, Commissioner? Did I catch you say that we've been sharing those with other communities? So the sheriff's office, I'm sure you may have seen some of them out in the parking lot. Right. They have a limited amount, I think just a few times that they've asked for some of ours to go with them downtown because of the amount of special events that happen all at once in the county. And the sheriff, because the sheriff got theirs through a regional grant, they're obligated to service not just the Pinellas County, but also they help with like Asparilla and all of those. So sometimes they get pulled in other directions. Right. Yes. One for community. Yeah. And I think you might have touched on it. I didn't quite catch. I've noticed like on Douglas, there's almost like a mesh that's extended. Was there, besides these, that the car hits and tips over, is there something else we use for safety downtown during the events? Sometimes we put cords in between the barriers because that extends, you know, when you have a limited amount of barriers, you find other ways to supplement. As a matter of fact, we're also looking at another brand of barriers that will extend further out, is less costly, but has a similar effect. And we will be previewing those. And we still use the trucks too. And because of the limited amount of barriers that we have, we still do use trucks in areas that are not as, you know, heavily citizen populated. Right. Yeah. I'm good. Thank you, Teresa. Yeah. If you YouTube search barriers, you'll see some really cool videos of how they work. And we could actually use the SHERP vehicle if we got one. Yes, we could. Another good use for you. Okay. Okay. I think we're good. IT. Michael. Good morning. Michael Nagy, IT Director. So, the Microsoft Teams phone system is a replacement of the current Avaya phone system we've had for about the last maybe 20 years. At some point, we will have to replace the phone system with something more modern. So, since we've already implemented Microsoft 365, which includes Teams, this phone system would allow us to eliminate phones where we don't need them around the city. People could use headsets. They could make their calls using Teams right from the computer. They get a call that comes through their computer. So, we put this in an outlier year of 2028 because it will be a major project that will take about a year probably to implement citywide. But it's an upgrade from what we currently have. So, at some point, we would have to replace the current phone system. Any questions? Thank you. Everybody's doing it. Okay. Yep. Teams is good. It sure is. Thank you, Michael. Okay. Library. Phyllis. Good morning. Dang, I don't have a vehicle, but I would love, like, a supercharged bookmobile. Anyway, my initiative is replacing our libraries. And it could float if it had to, right? Yeah, it could float. We could deliver. Yes. So many options. It's amphibious, yeah. YouTube it. We'll see what we can do. We want to replace library fluorescent light fixtures. So, our current fixtures are outdated and inefficient. So, we have further the aged ballast within the fixtures are making a low-level buzzing noise throughout the library. So, the existing fixtures are 29 years old and beyond useful life expectancy. So, we are requesting to do newly installed LED fixtures, which will bring back appropriate lighting levels, decrease maintenance cost over time, decrease energy consumption, also decrease electricity costs for the library, and get rid of the buzzing noise, which is the most important thing. The project is completely funded by a bequest. So, we're very happy that we received that donation to do this project. It's very light. Like, you can hear it. So, in some spots. I can see how practical that request is, Chief, wherever he is. Yeah. Kind of makes sense. You know, easy. Okay. Any questions at all? Good. I think you answered them all within your presentation. Thank you. There's this buzzing noise. Thank you. Next year, I'll put the vehicle. Okay. Okay. Parks and Rec. Good morning. Jocelyn Broadhead. Hi, Jocelyn. Parks and Recreation Director. I have another lighting project to review with you. But I will be reviewing the general fund projects that are scheduled in your handout. And then Clay Watkins and Blair Klein will be respectively talking about the marina project and then the golf operations projects that are scheduled. So, when you're done with all yours, we'll ask questions and then Blair and Clay can come up. Perfect. Okay. Great. So, the community center lights. The existing light fixtures at the center are original to the facility's 2007 construction. They, likewise, have exceeded their useful life and are extremely fragile due to their age. Burnout bulbs are a common occurrence. And sourcing replacement bulbs is becoming increasingly difficult as well as costly. As such, our facility's crew recently installed a layover lighting plan. So, it is separate and independent of our permanent lighting fixtures as a stopgap measure to be able to have adequate lighting in the interim. But it is not a permanent fix. So, this would be the long-term solution so that we are adequately lighting the Edinburgh Hall. The next project is the community center sound. The existing audio equipment in the Edinburgh Hall is also original to the facility's original construction. It no longer meets the demands of our programs. The various components have been replaced throughout the years, but the equipment in its entirety is outdated. It is not compatible with modern technology, and it is very difficult to use. The layman is very hard to operate. It really requires some technical skill set. So, the planned upgrades, which include a mixing board, new speakers, and updated AV hookups, will provide a streamlined, user-friendly setup that allows staff, as well as our multiple performing arts groups that have varying skill levels, to operate the system without risk of equipment damage or accidental alterations to our preset configurations, which, if you know anything about sound, is a big deal. The center currently partners with six different performing groups, as well as our own internal programming, and they each have specific audio requirements. So, that's another reason for that. The fully functioning and adaptable system is essential for the diverse needs of those performance groups and ensuring high quality and reliable sound, which all of you know from attendance at our various performances has been a challenge. Our next project are electrical panels. This project includes replacement of existing electrical panels at Edgewater and Weaver Park, as well as four different panels at Fisher Fields. The panels at Edgewater and Weaver Park primarily serve for shelter rentals and special events, and the Fisher Fields service the lights, as well as the scoreboards. Years of exposure to the elements have caused significant deterioration, causing potential safety hazards. So, timely replacement of these is essential to ensure safe operations and reliable operations, as well as the ability to support special event vendors, providing electrical support for their facility rentals, field lighting, and scoreboards. So, without these necessary upgrades, our service levels to the community would decline and impact our programming significantly. Kind of tagging on to that project, we have the Fisher Field Light Project. The Fisher Fields are home to our Greater Dunedin Little League. They're utilized year-round by our partner, as well as our department for our internal programming and rentals. The complex's lights have outlived their useful life. I don't have an exact date, but I'm going to guesstimate that they're at least 30 to 40 years old, in kind of tandem to the existing age of the previous Highlander and Fisher tennis court lights. The scope of this project includes retrofitting all of the current lights with new LED lights and new housing assemblies. The LED lights, as Phyllis mentioned, would be more energy efficient. We would also have the capability to operate them remotely, which would enhance our safety for participants. We do have that function with our Highlander lights, the tennis court lights currently, as well as our pickleball courts. So, we would be upgrading to have light systems in that regard. The existing poles are grandfathered in and don't require permitting, so we would not be replacing them, which would be an additional cost-saving measure. Repairs currently are definitely increasing in frequency, sometimes weekly, and it's very hard to find bulbs because of the age that can be replaced. There are seven fields in total, and we're budgeting in multiple years because of the overall project cost and how large it is. We did factor in cost escalation at 5% every two years, and then you'll see in FY29, there's a little bit of an outlier there where the cost is more significant, and that's due to the size of the field that we would be working on in that year. Next up, we have the Hale Center's painting project. This would be painting the entire interior of the facility, and it is scheduled just because of normal wear and tear. We would like to be sure that we're mindful of our two rental facility spaces, the sunshine room and the ballroom. Too many rooms and too many facilities, so that we're still a competitor in the rental space, which is a good revenue source for the Hale Center. We have, throughout the years, in our normal repair and maintenance, done some spot painting in rooms as it warranted, but this would be taking care of the whole facility at once. And then lastly, we have the MLK fencing project, and this project includes replacing the existing fencing with like material, which is one-by-one aluminum fencing around the entire perimeter of the playground, as well as all of the gates, so the front gate and then the service gates for our parks crews to get in and contractors for any repair needs. When this project is scheduled further out, the fencing will be approximately 20 years old. The gates, in particular, have seen significant wear and tear and most definitely need replacement, but we want to ensure a safe perimeter, especially for that youth-centric facility. And that is all of the general fund projects. Okay. Questions for Jocelyn? Commissioner Walker? Yeah. I totally agree that the sound system needs to be upgraded. Did we defer that? It seems familiar, as well, last year. No, we did not. This is the first time we've entered this project, yes. Okay. There was an AV request, I believe, in the Elliott room. Yeah, I recall that, yep. Okay, no. Great. Commissioner Dugard? Thank you, Mayor. I'm a little confused on the Marina bulkhead replacement, because we've got FY2026, $3,240,000. And then over here on six-year planning period, we've got $3.9. Is that because of the lower bid that came in, and we've got a different number on the six-year? I believe Clay will come up and chat about that in just a four now. Yes, that is confirmed from Gene. That is the adjuster. We will be adjusting that from the bids that we received. All right. I just wanted to be sure I understood that. And one of the items not on here that I have personal interest in is, of course, the tennis court resurfacing. And I don't understand the layout here. It's not on the slide, but it indicates that you've got $25,000 budgeted for the five-year period for $150,000. How does that work? Because you resurface them all at the same time. Which page are you referring to? Sorry. I'm court resurfacing. It's on three of six. It's existing. It's not new. Yeah, that's right. It's in existing. Yes. So the Highlander courts, that resurfacing project is actually currently out to bid. So it'll be addressed this fiscal year. Okay. And at least encumbered. The work will be TBD pending on the results of that bid advertisement. So we'll have to pay for the resurfacing in this year as it's done. Sorry, I couldn't hear you. And I just don't understand the spread of $25,000. So the spread is to address, we're not taking care of all courts in one year. We're taking them throughout our entire park inventory. So there are multiple locations that we would be addressing and putting them on a cyclical schedule. So by the time we, I believe it's 11 different surfaces that we're working with, I'd have to go back and confirm that number between our basketball courts and tennis and pickleball courts. So we kind of work in a clock as once we've finished one, by the time we get through all of them. Yeah, they're getting pretty bad. Yeah, we're starting again. They really need it. That's why we're addressing the Highlander courts in the manner that we are so that we, the surfacing that we've been doing really has just been band-aiding. And what we're doing now with the current project will scrape down some of that surfacing so that we are building it back up again versus just band-aiding upon band-aiding. So it should have a better lifespan. When the edge structure begins to buckle. And that's buckling right now. Correct. In case you need to redo the whole court. And that is being addressed and part of the scope of the project. All right. Very good. Thank you, Mayor. That's all I have. Commissioner, just to answer your question also about this, that specific project. There's a separate $500,000 project for the Highlander tennis courts that's in fiscal year 25 that is scheduled to be complete for fiscal year 26. So that project is not showing in this report. So it's because it's the actual larger project. The project that Jocelyn was talking about will be completed this year. So any projects that are current in 25 budget that they may be working on now, you're not necessarily going to see in this report if it's going to be completed this year. This is for anything that's going into 26 and outer years. Okay. Vice Mayor. Thank you, Mayor. You know, sometimes when you walk around the community center, your ability is oblivious to names. And you already just know where you're going, so you just go there. So thank you for using Edinburgh Hall. And for those who may not know, what room is that? What are we talking about? We're talking about our largest room in the facility, other than our fitness center, that Edinburgh is named after in spirit of our Scottish heritage and connection to our sister city. But it is a multi-purpose space, so it is for our performance and theater groups, as well as our camp spaces and fencing and karate. So all kinds of activities. And I would be remiss if I didn't say pickleball. You need to say that. So thank you for using that name. $78,000 for the sound. Is there a difference between what's budgeted and the wish list? Actually, no. There is a little bit of cost escalation because the current quote was a little bit less. I want to say $7,000 or so less. But knowing that we pushed, that we'll be pushing it out and doing the work in the future, we wanted to make sure that we were mindful of the entire project's cost. But no, it would be getting everything done that we would like to. Okay. And did you consult any of those performance groups on what they felt they needed? Not all of them, but yes, a select few of them. Yes, we did. All right. And so they're sufficient in this number? Correct. Yes. Okay. And because we do have sound issues in there. And if we're going to fix it, I'd rather fix it instead of nickel and diming to where, well, next year we'll. Okay. So thank you very much. That's all I have. Mr. Sandberg. Is that the same room that they do play pickleball in, right? Correct. Yes. Weren't some of those lights just recently updated within the last few months? So the permanent light fixtures themselves were not updated. The facility's crew did what they're calling an overlay. So they installed some, if you're familiar with the ceiling in there, the way that the lighting structure and the framework is in there, they installed some support structures that are holding some temporary LED lights. So they're completely separate from the existing light fixtures. I know there's a pickleball player that got hit real hard. And they called me. And when I went through Jennifer, some of those were replaced. And they wrote me this beautiful thank you card that I, you know, improved their pickleball by those lights. So I appreciate you guys getting that done. Absolutely. You kind of love that. I do love that. I know. It's great. She did the work, and I got the nice card for it. Electrical panel outlet. Or electrical panel replacements. Man, I can't imagine how many times I've heard that term since I started up here. And you even referenced ones down at the marina. Why wouldn't those have been part of our original FEMA reimbursement? If they were hurricane-damaged, I would assume, no? These in particular, no. These are due to their age. I don't think that these are in conjunction with anything related to the storms. Fisher Little League lights. It's only been about 25 years since I was involved in that. And eventually I'll get over it. Which lights? Poles? What are we going to do up there? The poles will remain, so we're replacing the fixtures themselves, the housing assemblies, as well as the bulbs. Which fields specifically? All of them. So we're doing a field each year. That's great. And lastly, I was a little concerned about seeing this MLK rec center playground fence replacement. Why wasn't that added when we just worked on the refurbishing of the bowl or whatever cool term we used where the kids skate? Why wasn't that attached to that program? Those would be two separate projects. I don't think that the contractors that would be doing those would be of a similar skill set. Okay. Okay. And right now the skate park is kind of its own independent little facility within MLK. And that this project here does not encompass that. That eight-foot fencing that's taller on the skate park. It's right around the park. That fence around there? It's still, yes. It's still. That's all I had, Jocelyn. Thank you, Mayor. I'm sorry. You're next. If you want to answer your quick question, then I'll ask mine. Yeah, just about the skate park. That also had, I thought, some community investment in that from the residents, I thought. I'm just curious. What do you mean by community investment? Maybe donations. Donations, contributions. No. No. It's all city? Okay. Thank you. So I'm just going to pile on about the sound project that it's all about sound. And so just make sure it's adequate funding because, you know, I mean, sound is everything. So and certainly understand the protectionism, too, because anybody that's dealt with church sound systems, they know how many hands get on that and screws it up really fast. So, yeah. So what have you got to do? I think that's a great project. As many test runs as you do in advance. What's that? As many test runs as you do in advance and you think it's good. And then. That's exactly right. In the thick of the show, nobody wants to be embarrassed. You better have that extra battery for the cordless mic. So anyway, the Little League field. So that's new? Like we didn't have it kind of in the out years in some other? That seems kind of funny to me. I believe previously it had been in conversation but not put on the schedule. Okay. I know that other lighting projects had been deferred, in particular the Fisher Tennis Court lighting. So I think maybe because that had been pushed out, maybe this wasn't on the schedule. I'm not 100% sure as to the rationale on that. You know, I don't want to lose this thought to the city manager, but for me, you know, this kind of thing where we're really thinking long term about our replacement, upgrade, you know, just really protecting what we have and making sure we're staying on projects and have them built into the budget to me is very important as we look out. So, um, and then let's see what else, um, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, I did have one question. The Purple Heart renovation, is that actually, I know it's always been down as $100,000. It's down as $81,000. Is that actually, I mean, I'll be very transparent. I was transparent to the military advisory. The park looks great to me. So, and when you, when you balance it against all the needs that we have, you know, to me it's one that can just, you know, gently wait a little while, so. Right, and I, I concur with your assessment of that. Uh, the funding that's been spent thus far was in relation to an updated design, um, nothing to do with construction or renovation. Okay, um, okay. I don't have any other questions, so I guess we got Blair next, right? Oh, wait, one, one other. I always like to ask, what didn't make the list that you'd like to add? Oh, jeez. I, I did not bring that list. I didn't think that would even come up. That list does exist. It's a couple pages. No, I'm just kidding. I just want the first one that's on the top of that list. It might be, it might be longer than Chief Andogos. Do you have anything that, if you could have added one more? Because we're, we're, we're trying to juggle a number of issues here, and I know you guys are, and so what is on the top of the cutoff? Hmm, can I get back to you on that? That's fine, that's fair. Prioritizing, prioritizing is the hard thing. Can I tell you mine? The hard thing. The backstage of the, the backstage on the building. Without a doubt. To be appropriately, you know, uh, oriented and on proper roof, because it used to look so cool. It's a significant project. Yeah, it is, but it's expensive, but anyway. But anyway, sorry, I had to jump in, because, yeah, and thank you for that look, because you, you, you get it. I hate, thank you. Yeah, so just, just a comment on the Purple Heart Park. Um, yeah, so I, I totally understand what the, uh, veterans want to do. It's a reoriented such that, um, that makes the space more usable for ceremony. And also, uh, essentially, there is a aesthetic when you're going south on Alt 19 or east on Bayshore there. And basically, it's an orientation of the flags thing. There's a whole bunch of things. So, I, I'm, I'm glad that this keeps getting carried forward in the budget. Um, I, you know, I think we've got a lot of other considerations at this particular juncture to say yay or nay. But I will tell you that my perspective, I, I, the, um, the recommendations, the suggestions, the desires of the veterans, they're not, they're not, they're not wrong on this. So, they're, they, we can, we can do better with that space. And that's my, my plug on this. So, thank you. And I just want to plug back that in no way, I, I think moving, you know, having it on the list is great. Because I also agree with what they want to do. I just, when you put it against the mix, so I just, it's a timing thing. Yes, moving the monument further back to create a more open space would be, increase its functionality. But I, I hear what you're both saying. Yes. Okay. Keep, keep moving. When we take a break, I'm sure the city manager will say, move, move, you've got to get moving. Okay. How are we doing on, are, are we, are we, not good. Okay. Okay. So, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to pick it up then. We've got to get moving. We're going to get, we've got to pick it up. Okay. So, we've got Blair coming up, I think. Blair and Clay. We'll readdress our, let's do it after, let's see. What do we got? We've got utilities and public works. We'll do that and then we'll take a break. Are you good with that? That'll encourage us not to. All right. We can take a break after this. You might good. I'm just, we've been sitting now for a while. Okay. Yeah. We'll take a, we'll take a break and the city manager and I will talk about time expectations for our next categories. Okay. So. Are we, we're ready? I'll be brief and brilliant. Very good. I, I know you want to get to the, the, the, the break. Um, the first thing we've got is the, uh, locker room remodel. Uh, the locker room remodel was originally in the plans of the, the renovation of the clubhouse. It was taken out just because that renovation went way over what Zach, uh, the Feinstein group was anticipating. It became, uh, quite a bit bigger project. What we found is, um, the locker room was when the clubhouse was designed in 97. It was almost for a private club type operation. Uh, there's obviously lots of lockers in there. There's a shower in there. The shower's rarely used. We probably have between the two locker rooms, 250 lockers. We currently rent out less than 15. Uh, so the lockers are taking up a lot of space and the, both the, uh, men's golf association and the women's golf association, uh, don't really have a meeting place, a gathering place. So we've got a lot of space that's underutilized. We have the ability for a fairly low cost to repurpose those two areas and create a space, a gathering spot for both of, both of those clubs, both of those golf associations, and thereby give the members, uh, something that they feel is their space again. Um, I don't think it's going to be a big project. We're not knocking down load bearing walls. We are pulling, pulling to say half the lockers out of each of them. We're putting carpet, we're putting paint, new, some new furniture in there for them and increasing the space so they can have meetings in there. They can plan their games in there. They can go over their scores after their, after their round in there. Um, sometimes the golfers come in and they want to sit in a group and they get loud. And so if they go into the actual restaurant as a group of 20 or 25, um, the tables are, are two tops and four tops. As you've seen, you can pull a few of them together, but it would kind of monopolize both the servers and the, uh, and the restaurant space, um, to what would be a loud exuberant group. So this gives them a place to do that. And that's our thinking, uh, planning. I've run it past both groups. So planning is more in 26 and construction in 27. And then the, uh, the next is the, uh, rain and starter shelters. Uh, we've got rain shelters on, uh, hole number five and hole number 13. Uh, they need a little touch up and they need a little repair and some nails pounded back in and things like that. These are not necessarily lightning shelters or flood shelters. They're just, if the rain's coming down, you can get out of the weather until it lets up and you can either get back to the clubhouse or resume play. Also, the starter shelter currently right now, our starter, which is on the, the person on the first tee that gives the, uh, gives every group a talk, uh, welcome to Dunning Golf Club. Have you played here before? Here's the rules and regulations. It's cart path only today. Our pace of play is X. We want you to enjoy your round. Thank you for coming. Uh, restrooms are located on these holes, that type of thing, kind of a welcoming speech. Currently, they just sit in a golf cart there, whether it's cold, whether it's warm, whether it's windy, rainy, whatever. They're just out there in a golf cart. We can produce a small shelter, like a eight by 10 foot shelter with a window air conditioner for a very little cost that would be right in line with what other courses have. It's, it's not over the top at all, but if you go to other courses, you will see the same thing there. So that's the thought on that one. Um, all that can be done for the price that's on the, on the, uh, capital improvement plan. Okay. Any questions? Okay. Oh, one. You know, as much money as we spent, how did we miss those shelters? You know, with all that years it was under construction. The shelters weren't really missed as much as, um, the, the encore shelters that are current. I would say we're not really missed. It's just, it's been another year now and a few more storms and it's, it's some fairly minor stuff. Um, I mean, I can say two, uh, two by four here at two by four. They're nailed up, painted that type of stuff. Uh, the starter shelter, the clubs never had one and we've wanted to put one in, at least I know I have since we've been here. I just think it's more respectful of the employees, gives them a place to actually do their job. It's, it's, it's a very small area. Um, we're not building anything elaborate at all and we're just placing it right by the first tee. We already have a cart down there. So that's the floor. Um, it'll be a quick, a quick. That's all I had Blair. Thank you. Thanks mayor. Okay. And Blair, this is coming out of golf operations. Yes. Right. So it's not general fund. It's us. It's out of the enterprise fund. It's out of the enterprise. And this is kind of really the first year that we've really more solidified this as an enterprise fund. How, how is that fund looking? We'll go through that. Okay. Yes. Then nevermind. I answered that one. Well, didn't I? Okay. Going, going, gone. Thank you, Blair. And, uh, we're going to take a, uh, literally a five minute break, a quick break. And, uh, and, and city manager, you and I will talk a little bit about our timeline. So we, cause we're on page 12 of 99. So I think we definitely have to pick it up a little bit. Okay. All right. There we go. And we're going to everybody say together brief and brilliant, even questions, brief and brilliant. So, yeah. So we could stay on track here. Uh, we're our, I think our goal is one o'clock lunch. Okay. One o'clock lunch. And so we've kind of targeted, uh, to get into, uh, you know, our funds by then. And that will take, uh, you know, a good bit of effort. So we're going to go ahead and first pressure, Sue, it's all on you, girl. Great. The brief part's probably not a problem. The brilliant, maybe. Um, the, uh, first item is, uh, for actually an evaluation for retrofit for all the fire stations to see, um, what it would take to improve the, the category of storm that they would be safe to, um, stay in five, four, three, two, one. Um, and then we will determine what kind of improvements can, and what those will cost and decisions will be made after that. Um, the next three are, uh, fence replacement that was damaged during the hurricane. However, it's not eligible for FEMA reimbursement because of the age and the, um, condition. Um, some of it was newer, but that's really to go around the water and the, um, public services complex. Then the next five, the multifund. Yes. Thank you. It does say that, but just to, it's great to point it out. Most of these things are because they're, you know, involved more than one, um, entity or they're citywide. This public works improvement of operations. You all already approved this and it is ongoing. So it is not a new initiative. Uh, it was a budget transfer that was approved as a commission item. And so, um, it is currently ongoing. That's the efficiency evaluation and improvement for public works. Remember we started in solid waste and then we, um, at, you, you agreed we could add the other parts of public works and so we could do it all at once. And now we're in the implementation part of the recommendations. Okay. Yeah. The, the, the implementation is new to the, um, business plan and CIP in 26. Sue did, um, decide to bring it forward and, um, brought you guys to, that brought to commission and, uh, you know, we did a budget amendment for 25. That's why you're not seeing any dollar amounts listed in 25, in 26 because we've already put it on the project in 25, um, and they'll be using that budget up to, to work on that project. But it's still new into the plan, which is why I left it on the list. Right. Okay. Thank you. Um, page 13, public works storage building. This is, um, a storage building that, um, we hope will be located downtown area so that it can contain those barriers that you guys were talking about before the barricades for downtown. Um, there's quite a few things we do down here, but it's equipment that's needed during hurricane. It will be high enough, uh, to be protected there like the sandbagger, um, things, uh, pieces of equipment that we don't currently have any safe from a cat five, you know, cat five capabilities, um, to house those in. So we will be doing that in 27. It's been pushed out so that we will be evaluating it with, uh, engineering's help and what's the best spot and design. And then, um, the replacement of the fleet services building you can see is way out there in 2030, not this fiscal year. And that's us to just put it, make sure everybody's aware that we, we will need to replace that building. Um, and that is some, just a design plan amount there so we can get a figure and know what we're dealing with. Maybe a penny, you know, could be funding. And then the next five, um, are one, two, three, four, five, you're right, five from different sort of funding sources. Again, as for the, uh, software for the recommendations and implementation of work tracking and mostly planning, um, and then tracking, um, this will, uh, if all things work out, uh, will be coming before you on August 7th. The attorney has, um, uh, has, uh, found that we can piggyback, uh, an agreement, uh, for software. And if, um, again, it will be before you on the 7th. And at that time, um, we will do a budget amendment for 110,000. This is 250. So it would be a savings and it is anticipated that we would pay for that out of savings that we, uh, achieve through the implementation of efficiency, um, recommendations or efficiency changes. And, um, Jean will, uh, and Les will address that in the budget after, uh, you take a look and if you approve, the commission approves that, that software purchase. And that's it. Bottom of page. Okay. Any questions? No questions? Okay. Commissioner Walker. Just a quick kind of description of the workflow and management software. Um, is it, tell me a little bit about that. Um, it is a very simple software that allows us to put into, uh, to, um, a container that can be used by all of our staff, um, to, for an annual plan, a work plan of how much work we're going to do, where we're going to do it, what we're going to work on and with our, balanced with our resources, what kind of equipment and which resources. And that's the planning part of it. It'll have rates in it. And then we will track in it. Uh, and we will compare that on a monthly basis. Certainly an annual, it'll match our line on a budget. The activity based, based on programs that you all have approved. And that will come in reports and a dashboard that will tie directly to our strategic plan. Um, and again, very simple software to, to do those two primary things. Enterprise resource management type function. Correct. Asset management. Mm-hmm. Yep. Work management and asset management. I just have two questions. Um, evaluation and retrofit of fire buildings for hurricane hardening. Yes. I'm just asking, like, I'm assuming we're thinking cost benefit on this because it's my understanding that you all might be recommending some new buildings in the next penny. Right. So we wouldn't want to put a lot of money into it. Absolutely. That is exactly correct. That's why we're evaluating what will be needed. Uh, there was a request for some changes and improvements to those buildings to harden but, uh, we, we went with the evaluation first. Let's find out. And then we can compare and use that data. Got it. In the future. And then my other question is not one of the new ones. I think it's under you, but maybe it's not. Yeah, it is. Public Works. Weybridge Woods bridge replacement. So I'm looking here and I see in 2027, we have 300,000. We have 2 million too. So this thing's evolved over the years. And so, um, and based on all the expertise behind the scenes with staff where I've talked, it's like we've talked about doing a full replacement. And then it was like, it'll be too expensive. There's not enough people that it, that it helps. And then Nan came along and said, well, it's holding two big pipes. We're not going to get rid of it. Um, and then it became the bottom part of the bridge is, is good. It's very sound. So if we do anything, it will be making the walkway, um, safe. So now, and I may, I'm, I'm asking cause I just need clarification because obviously we've got a whole neighborhood very, you know, willing to even give up some of their land to make this happen. And I want to make sure we are giving it the focus of what it really needs versus what it doesn't, what the real cost would be versus is it massive? Is it not massive? So. Okay. Watkins utilities and engineering. So we did have an, a group come out and do an inspection on that bridge. Um, with that, they gave us three different cost estimates. Right. One was enough to just support our utilities that are on the bridge. Another one was to secure, cause there actually is some damage to some of the, the vents or the, the piers that are at about a 15 degree angle roughly. So there is some sub structure work that would need to be done. So there was that, that work would need to be done to carry the load of the bridge. Then there was another cost estimate for that. And then keeping some of the, the structure and then redoing the, the top of the bridge. And then a third estimate, which is the one that we put in just so we could see the total. And that's for a full replacement. And, and that's the 2 million too? That's the 2.2. Okay. So really that, then you all are going to be evaluating that a little further to understand what the real cost benefit scenario is. And we're going to see that sometime. When do you think? There'll be further analysis. The, the, the, the analysis and the design is fiscal year 2027 though. I mean, it's, it, we've pushed it off and it's general fund, general fund expenditure. So we will be looking at which avenue we want to take and reporting back to the city commission and have you obviously make the decision. Right. I mean, I'm, I'm good with that. It's just that there's just been mixed messages on that because it's been like, oh, it wouldn't really be that bad to open up and make that walkway safe. Okay. I know. Hey, I don't want anything unsafe. I'm just saying there's, it's very different scenarios. Cause if it's not that expensive, we can make a lot of people happy. If it is expensive, then we just, I just think we need to drill that down. Okay. And give a, give some sense. Like if it's a massive, it's massive and it's going to have to wait probably. But if it's not massive, well, we, then we shouldn't make people wait to just even understand if it's massive or not massive. Yeah. We, we are just waiting just to be clear. We, we have been moving forward and just recently, you know, we, we acquiring the easements and also that you have those options. Without them, there's no real option, right? Without having those pieces. No, I understand. I understand. So then you will have the pieces that are in place to make that decision. But we, by having the design, then we're going to get into the nitty gritty. Okay. What do you really want and agree? No, and I get that. And that's not, that's not on you guys. But in the past, you know, I kept getting, oh, well, we can't do it anyway. Because of the easements. And, and so it doesn't matter and it's massive and whatever. And then it was like, oh, I don't think it's going to be massive. Well, we got to get easements anyway. We're never going to get easements. And now they're ready to give us easements. Right. Because I said, they want it. So I think you're going to get the easements. And now we've got it. And I just think we need to hone down about what the situation really is. And we can't make people wait two years. That's just my opinion. Okay. We'll do that. Let me get back to you on that with staff. As far as what the analysis is. And we'll do it by the city commission meeting August 7th. Yeah. But I really need to meet with staff to figure out what the next steps are. Yeah. And I get that. That's great. And I also thought the lady yesterday made a great point. If we're going to get the easements, even if, and again, that's part of the equation, if it's massive or not. If we're going to get, if we're going to get the easements, we better get it while the ownership doesn't change over. And we also can't get, then we can't get the easements. So. And then. I'm sorry, Clay. Just one thing, Mayor. When we started, I just, just want to correct something for the record, if I may. You said that we're going to ask people to give up land. We're not. We're creating an easement. Yeah, I'm sorry. Right. We're creating an easement. I just wanted to. But still, they have to be kind of on board with it, right? Right. Yes. And I was going to add to it just briefly. Fair enough. Thank you for that clarification. When we awarded the bridge inspection contract last, on the third, or prior, you guys had asked what those reports look like. I've been meaning to send you the one from this so you could see what we get from those. So I'll get this out to you later, next week. That's awesome. Thank you. That would help you look at that, too. Yeah. Thank you. And I know you guys weren't here in the early stages of this, so I'm not pointing fingers at you guys, so. No. Or anybody, really. Okay. Okay. We're going to. I can't keep moving, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. Yes, we are. Utilities and engineering. Sit down this time. All right. Good morning. Clayton Watkins, Utilities and Engineering. We're going to go over our five proposed projects for the next few fiscal years. The first one you see there on the list is our chlorine contact chamber covers. This was initially part of a rehab of the chlorine contact chambers that we finished last fiscal year. But due to getting our, when bids came in, they were a little higher than the budget, so we had removed it from the project. And now we are trying to bring it back in. Adding this cover to the contact chambers will help reduce the amount of chlorine that we use throughout the facility. Also reduces the algae buildup. At this time, currently, our crews have to empty. We have two of them. So they rotate through and have to build. They get about six inches of algae buildup. So they have to go in there about every three months and clean those out. It also, we get a little bit of some fecal pickup, amount of pickup in there, too. So all this will help kind of reduce that growth. And reducing the UV rays will reduce the growth of the algae and the reproduction of chlorine. The second one is a force main 31 replacement and extension. This is a force main that is in the Greenbrier area. Then it's one of our problem ones that we have to keep track of. The flows that come out of this force main. It discharges into a shallow manhole. And our crews have to sort of keep track of what flows are leaving there and sort of play a game of getting the flow out of the lift station and then not overwhelming the manhole it discharges into. So this will extend that force main down to a manhole, the next manhole down, which is a deeper manhole, and will help reduce that effort that our crews will have. It should just be able to take the flows and we don't have to monitor it as much. The Michigan, the next project is our Michigan Avenue, Harvard Avenue intersection gravity main. This is for the first fiscal year in 26. That budget is for us to do an evaluation of it, to bring in a consultant to us to have them monitor our flows and understand where we have some issues. This area has got a lot of twists and turns. And also the main runs in the rear of the lots in Harvard. So we want to try to have a consultant give us ideas on how we can sort of help reduce some of our problems during heavy flows. During storm events, we actually sit with the crew at that intersection pumping that to make sure we're in good shape. The next one, the wastewater treatment admin hardening building. This is to reinforce the walls on the second floor of this building. The first floor is made out of concrete. The second floor is more of a foam type structure. So this would reinforce that so our guys are safe during events. And to note that we are applying for an HMGP grant for this also, that hopefully can cover the majority of these costs. And the last one is our wastewater treatment plant, the emergency generator building. This is to rehab the building. Currently, right now, the radiator and some of the fans are on the roof of the building. This causes some penetrations that we've had some issues with leaks and everything. So the proposed design would be to move those off of the roof and beside the building to reduce some of that. And then also then rehab and the roof, rehab and weatherproof the roof. So that's everything for us. Any questions? Any questions? Okay. I guess you were brief and brilliant. Tried to be as fast as possible. Very nice. Very nicely done. Or that we've seen you so much, we're like, yeah, we trust him. He was briefer and brillianter. All right. There we go. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So we're going to go now to projects removed from the business plan, implemented, ongoing. Anyway, I'll let you guys talk through this. Yeah. This is the left portion of the slide. These are projects that are ongoing and been implemented. Les, is your microphone on? Is it closer to you? Okay. There you go. The better? Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We're the budget planning. Thank you. We're just saying that we think that they can fall out of tracking the business plan because there's sort of ongoing operations. The projects on the right are projects that the staff has determined are inactive or proposing proposing to be canceled and so there's a list there on the right there curly road main replacement decorative furniture lofty pine septic sewer parking sensors septic tank abatement sterling skate park street course sterling park driving range and water plant secondary electric feeder those are the rider ones that staff is recommending be uh inactive or canceled so if we're not we're going to go over this in detail but if the commission has any questions on especially the ones on the right uh we'll be happy to uh answer them so so everything on the right like lofty pines is just done right it's not like some of those have never been done what's it done or not done good good morning clayton walkins utilities and engineering uh so a phase one was completed that was on i want to say i think it was lakeview um that one was done and completed we finished in about november this is phase two which is the other section of the road um at this point in time unless we can find uh funding for it it's not really it's not physically it's not physically sustainable for the city this is this is an area that is outside of the city limits that we'd be serving other folks gotcha mayor if i could if you recall um as clay mentioned that phase one we were actually able to complete because we got a uh five hundred thousand dollar grant from pennants county to be able to do so but again this serves unincorporated residents and so that first phase has been constructed but we have to wait for those individuals to connect in order to then annex into the city and right now without additional funding it really isn't fiscally responsible for the city to continue to invest in that expansion until we can either receive grant funding to do so or additional customers connect to our system okay so all those are pulled off because they have not been done we don't see them being done blah blah okay all right so any questions uh i'll go over here so what does it mean to have something pulled from the business plan are we can well will we be looking for money or are we just moving on what so in our scenario in the utility scenario there's a few different reasons for that some of them are like we said for this specific the lofty pines phase two it doesn't make economic sense for us to do it right now this would pretty much we would need to work with dep and the county for that funding um some of the other ones specifically like the electrical second feeder that we just found that you know we we don't necessarily need that project we can find other means to better use those dollars um so it's a combination of maybe we re-evaluated the project maybe it's not economical feasible or you know some of them we just you know maybe we just don't need the project anymore so there's a lot of reasons well was was we did phase one because we got money yes and without that money was it economically feasible for the city to do no right so we so we got money and we did it part of the business plan and so it's the same it sounds like it's the same same song second verse but we're just giving up instead of looking for the money all right because at one time this was a major talking point for the commission and and and management it was a big issue to try and convert vice mayor if i may um jorge kentis deputy city manager um exactly it was a a talking point and a proposal to try to get as many um septic systems off um that type of treatment process and into our system as possible but again absent the ability to work with the county and dep which we're not giving up on we'll continue to try to pursue that but absent doing that it is not physically responsible for our dunedin rate payers to subsidize an expansion of a system that we can't guarantee that those customers will connect so if you build it they may not come so we need to have that uh type of funding because you know we have bond covenants that that we're responsible for so in order to be able to justify that continued expansion which we'd like to pursue um we need to be able to make sure that it is not on the back of our our city of dunedin rate payers and i can't disagree with that and yeah i don't know that we would have done phase one right without the money i guess my concern is that if it's not it doesn't continue to be part of the business plan there's no longer an incentive to look for the money and at at some point it's to the the residents betterment to even though those houses aren't in currently in the city to encourage them to go from septic to sewer i i if i may yeah i i would say that that we're always looking for money and i'm looking at camille over there looking at nicole and that if a program because typically a program is advertised by the county they reach out to the county and we sit in meetings and we decide that we're going to make an application and we're awarded and we move forward and we will do that uh even if it's not in the business plan i mean the uh hazard mitigation grant funding is not in the business plan anywhere so it became available and we pursued it and to the tune of 10 million upwards um uh in funds so if money were to come available and it is uh fiscally responsible and something the city commission would like to do we would most certainly do it but uh you know there are some items in the business plan that have been there year to year to year to year and there's been inactivity and to me that uh kind of devalues the business plan if we have if we throw everything in there we're going to do and then we don't do it so i don't it doesn't mean that we're putting this on the shelf it means that that it's it's the entire program is something that we're not actively pursuing if the money becomes available then back it goes and we'll work on it okay uh i'm and i i get that i just because sometimes things need to be part of the business plan because they're the right thing to do and we know if the money comes it comes and it's the incentive to look for money my concern is that if it's not part of the business plan while we can say if the money comes available i think there's a difference between money coming available and us actively searching for that money sure you know and i'd rather not wait for the money to hit us in the face before we take action again than it is it's important enough that we we are continuing to search whether or not it's part of the business plan to me is irrelevant as long as it's still on somebody's radar right it is on our radar yes i would say we're leaving it on the wish list instead of the beach you know okay well the beauty of the business plan was everybody saw the wish right and also i mean if it's a consensus direction the city commission would be happy to keep it in it's not it's not a you know a you know it's not a sore point at all for staff these are just things that that have been enacted for a period of time though that we would take out but if the commission would like to see it in it's in no problem you know if if if i'd love to get consensus direction or something on that just right it doesn't have to have any money attached to it but it's still it's important enough for our environment that it makes a statement for the city of dunny and that wanting to move in that direction not a problem so well first of all can i just see if anybody else has any questions and then we'll come back to that yep uh just i'm sorry yeah you have a second that's all right um yeah so just to just to add to it that um the way i've seen this done before is is that these retract is unfunded requirements and essentially my concern that i shared vice mayor's is is that um you know it gets removed from the list and then it's out of sight out of mind and maybe we're not actively pursuing a grant or something that would fix that particular problem so um and a second um question slash comment on this is the projects removed from the business plan implemented or ongoing um i'm a little i i kind of share an opposite perspective on the other one only because of the fact that they're you know you take a look at it um you know our goal is to have the downtown looper as self-sustaining with uh you know whatever advertising whatever it's going to be um and i don't want to remove it from the business plan because to me it's still you know and i i know everybody's going to disagree with me on this but it's still more or less a prototype and subject to finding funding to actually support this because right now that's coming out of our general fund and i honestly do not think that that is the right place for it to be paid for so that's my unsolicited editorial opinion on that um anyway that's that's all i've got sorry to tell you i definitely agree with what you just said i agree because you said you didn't think we would agree but i completely agree um any other questions before we kind of okay so um i did have one and that would the septic tank abatement incentives though like weren't we still doing some of that no we we've searched our bond covenants and are not sure how we can actually pay for the improvements on the private property okay so we can't really do it yeah we can't really do it okay all right um okay well i mean what i'm hearing is the potential to leave lofty pine septic to sewer in just to keep it in the brain waves and then also maybe leave downtown looper in because and i know i agree but everybody could speak for themselves and i heard jeff say he agrees too that it it is very much still a pilot program yep we can do that yeah or is everybody good with that yeah okay good sure the thing the thing i would want to see before we make any decisions on the looper is the data we never had 12 months of data to understand cost benefit so so i think that we're not coming no matter what that kind of work yeah we're taking a good long hard look at the looper yes and that's why i think really it's still a it's an initiative because it's right it's far from solidified yet okay very good we'll leave it and then this is just the business plan where it's not about funding or not you're going to make that decision as part of the budget process cool okay good all right um so what's next guys we got the next is uh oh discussion on initiatives and okay are anything that we think should be in here and again as the city manager and i were talking about time if you if you have something and you want to explain it we don't necessarily have to just you know go on and on about it today in a big discussion staff can actually look at it we can decide later but if they want to put something out on the table that you think ought to be added to initiatives so uh why don't i start with uh vice mayor yeah i i don't know if this is the right place to bring it up but i will um you know we just uh moved on from the bike ped action plan and it's removal because it's part of operation now and i do question that but i didn't bring it up uh you know and everybody certainly knows my feelings about our transportation infrastructure and our need for to diversify our transportation plan and i know a lot of it is like wanting to cure cancer you know and how hard that is and how how much of how i feel can't be accomplished by the city of dunny but because it takes it takes a county it takes a region it takes a state um but i know at one point that's also the way we felt about sustainability and look how far we've come with sustainability and are ready for 100 and the things that we've accomplished and i'm wondering if it's not time and i don't know why this falls into personnel because i'm not asking for extra money but i would like to see where we have a position that's actually similar to natalie's and one of the functions is to actually reach out to other communities uh natalie talks to her cohorts throughout the county all the the time they meet monthly and they talk about what each community is doing because each community is doing something different but the aggregate of what all these communities are doing are starting to make huge benefits in our community and i wonder if that can't also be done with transportation and we talk about what all the cities are doing and all of a sudden ideas come hey this community is doing this why don't we do that or something great dunedin is doing and so it would just be nice to see that sort of functionality happen within the personnel of the city of dunedin okay so we'll put that out and you're going to kind of take a list of these and we'll think up think them through um okay um commissioner sandbergen mine's a little easier less complicated i love our entry signs into the city i think we need one coming in down cr1 and down alt 19 um welcome to dunedin similar to what we have downtown so my requests are pretty simple thanks okay uh commissioner walker thank you mayor um so i don't know if we're going to cover this in another discussion but um the uh dunedin boat club in the upcoming year um i just want to confirm my understanding of what uh what is currently in the budget um i believe 80 000 in insurance um possibly public restrooms on site which about 20 000 and then the existing 50 000 that we've been carrying forward for the last couple of years is that about about right i would need i need to look at the insurance aspect of it um i know that i'm working on a loi right now with the bridge and board um and um we're looking at because there will be public restrooms so we're looking at not to exceed within the loi and then that would be folded into the budget eventually um so it's really those two things um they're working on the design right now uh and then the the method of delivery i've had a meeting with uh jorge and clay and then i uh craig polito i'm meeting with um the boat club on the 29th um actually coming in from vacation to meet with them specifically yeah i want you to know that no just kidding it is evaluation time but anyway so um but um um so that's ongoing and then we will look at some funding um rolling over to the fiscal year 2026. okay uh that's good uh again the the genesis of this really pertains to how much of a um how much the dunedum boat club is to the fabric of this community and after having met with the board of the bridge many many times i will tell you that the vision is consistent and it is all about the legacy and what the dunedin boat club has meant to the city of dunedin i mean there is so much history there that that made this community what it is and the visions that are coming out of this specifically uh pertain to making dunedin once again and it was a sailing center of excellence making it a sailing center of excellence again and there is a lot of passion there's a lot of energy right now to make sure that the uh the private public partnership is formalized and uh anyway that's i i want to make sure that that's uh that's that's that's clear because this this is a heck of a lot more than just just a boating and social club to the to the city and so uh i do appreciate all the effort that's gone into that especially you thank you commissioner thank you mayor um the manager was kind enough to kind of tease my thoughts on kind of a magic wand exercise if you would in other words if we had a magic wand and we could wave it over the city and make something change what would that look like what would that change be and um there's a couple things that sometimes you shouldn't share because they're just right off the wall so i'm not sharing everything so i'm sharing one that came up through my campaign and that's the issue of our demographics relative to our population and social isolation we do great at hail center it's a wonderful facility top of top of class but the last survey i did relative to my campaign efforts indicated that our seniors still have issues that they want us to address and we think social i think social isolation is part of that in other words we do magnificent we hit above our weight relative to city services what we provide recreationally hail center and all that but that doesn't pull them out that doesn't get them engaged and i think we need an outreach program for our seniors that's going to make them connect or at least enable them to connect remember that the median age in dunedin is 57 years of age that's the median age and so we have a number of people that when they lose a spouse they never come out of it and we've got to work for those people there's a couple other things i think that because of the trauma that the last year brought us through the storms i think we have to go beyond public works when it comes to how we deal with the potential for the next storm there's a psychological issue that's where we're all sitting around crossing our fingers no more storms we hope it's another hundred years and by the way i do too but i think we have to research what you do to go beyond your infrastructure what you do to really make a change and build a hardened system that protects our citizens more and that's probably a research project where we take a look at okay this is what the basics say for a coastal city you've got to provide but who's gone beyond that and what are they doing to make their citizens feel like everything's been done and those two are pretty mammoth so i'm going to stop right there great um yeah you know i think about this a lot you know one of the things top of my mind is we have a lot of new stuff and it's really important we keep it up and we're taking care of our downtown sidewalks and you know you know things get tired they happen fast and you know we've got a lot of new new houses out there so to speak that we have to keep up and take care of both from our facilities and all of our our streets and public works so those aren't new and those are ongoing but they're always top of mind for me when we look at priorities of what we're about um i um i like your entry sign i just i still wish that we could include the scottish culture and home of toronto blue jays somehow on that i would know that would make the blue jays very happy um mark shapiro said something to me about it a long time ago um the i guess mine would be i know we we did a little bit of a review um bob iron smith did it on that that connectivity sidewalk for me's life especially if the looper doesn't end up staying um but we looked at that and i don't know if that's a big cost or a little cost but if it's not a huge cost it'd be great to create a little sidewalk connectivity with um with me's life for the residents there because they're you're getting younger there and i know like they go over to clear sky a lot and a lot of you know just that connectivity to our downtown since they're our hugest um you know senior living facility so to speak um and most of its independent living so um so that's kind of one small one and um i think you know i would certainly tag on to the uh the storm prep that you said including you know where our neighbors where are the neighborhoods at now that are kind of turning over and you know just making sure we don't forget that recovery still is happening and then prep for anything new um and okay so but i would i think my two big ones would just be looking at the sidewalk connectivity because i think that could be a small dollar big gain and then the other one i guess i'd like staff if you would look at i'm not suggesting a new position but we used to have a volunteer coordinator position and and that was now i know you know library does theirs wreck and parks does theirs but when we had it it brought it all together and even if a citizen wanted to pour beer two hours two hours at mardi gras you could pull it up on your spreadsheet and say hey got a call you know margaret who's willing to pour beer um but i mean i know like when we look at our um special events and as we've even been you know getting given a proposal on mardi gras by the chamber you know volunteerism is a huge one and and we used to really have a really well defined system in my opinion um and and by losing that position we lost that we we lost it during the the downturn of 2009 so it was legit um and i i don't know if that's a position or if we if there's a way to coordinate like how do we do it now and are are we able to be uh more centralized even though we've got it in different areas so that would kind of be my my thought i'm just thinking on is there a way to do that differently so one of the things the city does bring is what we used to bring which was a huge database of volunteers to help with all events no matter who was putting on the event so um so those would be mine okay uh mayor if i may sure just a couple of things first of all um the meeting with boat club is actually on the 31st so i didn't want anybody you know to listening to hear 29th and now everybody's confused so angelica told me it's the 31st i remember that now and the other thing is if i may i'd like to work um uh one-on-one with commissioner dugard on uh what we can do to make the residents feel safe uh and to understand a little bit more about what he's looking for if that's all right with all of you yeah okay very good thank you you know i was going to add because right now uh staff nicole in particular our city clerk for the day um is working on the aarp update plan um with community on aging and i'm i can't imagine there's not some issues in there that don't go right to the heart of maybe what you're talking about so okay that's great okay um storm related expenses and reimbursements yes uh and nicole's going to hand uh hand out a couple of forms that are the slides you can have in front of you there uh we've had a lot of storm related expenses as you all know in in the uh during 2025 and we we have them included in our 25 and estimates and 26 budget and we wanted to kind of show a couple of different things to the commission of kind of where we're at with that uh this is the estimated cost uh of the storms for the general fund and the marina fund and as you can see the total costs on the far left is about 19.6 million and and then we've got the expected fema reimbursement and the expected state reimbursement and then our city match on the far right we just kind of want to show you high level you know what we've what we've currently got for storm damage uh and our estimates uh i want to point out that the fema number is 16.2 million but we have received 2.3 million of that we received that expedited payment for the debris removal so uh we did receive that uh a number of months ago uh we're estimating that we will receive the remainder of the fema money um for the storm damage by december of this year is our best estimate we we've got that uh in the process nearly obligated so we think by december we'll get the remainder of that funding and our best estimate uh for the for the remainder would be estimated two years hopefully you get from reimbursements some may go longer than that depending uh we also show our city match our match uh is 554 000 in the general fund current estimates and then 1.1 million in the marina fund and on the far right column uh the storm damage is just you know it's added some complexity to the budget this year uh and these numbers they may change some in the in the next few months but this is the best information we had uh towards the end of june uh any questions on this slide questions uh well let me let me i'll start with you for example on the uh on the bulkhead uh 3.9 i guess we understand that they must come in considerably less do we have to revise our fema numbers or is that just we did a good job and congratulations yeah we we will be adjusting uh to the new number uh moving forward in our tentative budget and that and that and the good thing about that was that that will reduce uh our match as well a little bit so we'll be we'll be adjusting that number uh down to our our bid we that was discussed last night yeah okay and so that fema 75 number looks like uh we've received let's see so you said we've received 2.3 million yeah of the six point uh 16.32 million dollar total at the bottom uh that's the total amount we expect from fema but we have but we did receive about 2.3 back in back in january time frame uh that was an expedited payment for debris removal that fema paid in advance okay and you said december of this year we should receive the other roughly 14 million yeah no no i'm sorry we we would expect by these by december we would receive probably another three million for debris removal and then the and and the other items are going to be over a longer period of time the marina will be over probably the next two years guessing and and and the general fund will be at different stages anywhere from uh some will be received in december and some of them may go into a year or two depending on the the timing of fema uh obligated fema go fema looks at every project as a bucket and and we've got many we're working with on them and and it's a process and and uh some get some will get obligated uh uh like the the eastern bulkhead we're hopeful will be obligated uh in the months ahead but some will take a lot longer okay that's all thank you mayor okay uh anybody else uh vice mayor yeah just real real quickly on the um payout so far that we've received back i i see fema on here i don't see the state on here yeah the state the state is there and i just don't see it yeah well the state's the third right third call from right that that 12.5 well yeah yeah that yeah that that i saw but it was i guess for me the second page on how much we've received and what we're going to get through the years oh you're on the next slide i'm sorry on the next slide okay gotcha okay uh go to that slide there for a second are we not ready to go to that slide i can wait what would you like to do i know yes if you're going to be explaining it then why don't we just wait okay okay yeah okay no that was it okay anybody else just real quick can you remind us again um fema 75 what what's that 75 based on that 75 is just based on the estimated cost for each project okay all right thank you and federal reimbursement right 75 yeah okay that's the one i was looking for thanks i have uh one comment um i sat down uh the other day with the finance committee and we were looking at these numbers and because of the way we manage capital expenditures within the budget it's going to make optics on our budget look very strange this next year and so i think it becomes a communications problem as much as it is a financial problem because when you start doing percentages on it it just it blows percentages out of the water excuse that expression but nonetheless it does um so i think that we need to be very specific about what we're having to deal with in our finances but also realize it's going to be a communications problem for the next couple of years okay no great comment um and my only question is that the the state did you say when did you say we were getting that money uh this the state uh funding would will follow the fema the fema female female will approve a project and the state will normally pay its share at the same time that the the fema pays the 75 percent and then the state would pay its same 12.5 at the same time okay and in the meantime you're confident we can float all this money in the meantime in the meantime we've mentioned before and we'll go over it more in the next slide uh we're going to need to get a line of credit uh to to finance some of these projects uh you know probably i'm guessing 14 15 million dollars a line of credit so uh that we can draw down on and then and that that'd be paid back with fema reimbursements yeah and you know that that does make me asked how that deals with our debt factor in um you know our mandatory debt and all that sure yeah uh the the debt service estimate would go in that calculation the calculation limit and it's probably an estimate of 800 000 a year roughly uh when you do that calc but we've looked at it and we can present we can share this with the commission we've looked at it but with our current with adding that into our into our debt along with uh the aquatic complex and uh and the parking garage assuming those all were to move forward in the near future then we would still we would be just under the 20 percent threshold we'd be getting in between to the 19 that's right in between 19 19.5 so we'd be very close to that limit and what so our debt's like what 100 million right now about 98 million yeah and how much of that is the blue jays in the state being reimbursing us for the blue jay complex yeah about about 30 i'd say about 30 31 million of that uh is is blue jays which which is paid by another another other people's money yeah i absolutely feel like and it goes back to what you said commissioner to guard that that we all need to be those numbers we need to have a little cheat sheet that shows us like our debt how we got it because some of it is like you know we've got good payers we're just the through group you know and i think that it goes back to messaging we've got to really understand because there's a lot of misunderstanding about what's comprised in that debt and it it makes it seem you know and sometimes it's that we're not being responsible but when you understand the pieces of it then people are like oh okay i got you so i think that is really uh we we need to have that so we all understand and can flow right out of it because um anyway but thank you and i think that goes back to messaging so i don't have any other questions so so our takeaway is to provide a cheat sheet for all of you on the debt and the source of the total debt in the source and and the payer because like some of it is like a you know i don't see the toronto blue jays in the state of florida you know not paying up to us and then we're just a through payer so right i think also if just direction to staff is is to on the cheat sheet um clearly show what's for essential utilities and you know a lot of the rest of it is that right right yeah a lot of it is that correct yeah and again now we're going to add something that's storm related with the expectation of being paid back so again there's a great story to tell but boy i'll tell you you leave some you know you leave some individuals to fill in the gaps it's not it's going to be a good point i'm going to misunderstand yeah yeah good point great okay the uh the next slide is this shows this shows the storm activity from 2025 to 2029 time frame and as you can see most of the activity is in 2025 and 26 but i wanted to mention that just just a few key items on this and looking at the column in 25 uh if you go to the bottom it shows a 2.6 million dollar credit and and that credit means that that for that for that year uh in 2025 the revenues are more than the expenditures uh you know from the from the storm and part of that is we received five million dollars from the fleet fund if you recall the general fund received five million dollars from the fleet fund as a loan and we do plan on paying that back next year and we'll talk more about that in a minute but but that's that's a lot of uh that inflow so i want to point that out because that that 2.6 million dollar is uh is flowing through our general fund all these numbers are within our general fund and that's why we wanted to make sure we we showed this and we're transparent that we've got uh a lot of activity for especially the next three years that will be flowing through that is storm related activity either money coming in uh projects being paid for or fema paying us back or is mostly activity uh but the in 2025 when we go through the long range plan a few more slides uh we'll talk more about that 2025 number and and how it affects our fund balance in 2025 and also want to mention in the 2026 column we've got a couple big dollar amounts uh first is at the very top that five million dollars is we're recommending that we pay back the fleet fund uh that five million dollar loan and and the reason for that is we we think it's it's it's best to have financial flexibility so that's paid back if we have a future storm we've got that funding to use again uh if we need it so if if we keep it obligated and we have we have a future storm then we're going to be forced to get a line of credit sooner rather than later and we would rather not be in that position you know that this situation worked well to where the storm happened and uh and we will hopefully probably get a line of credit uh a year or later after the storm uh once we really have the cash flow needs you know when projects start really being spent um and also you can see uh down below we've got uh projects for the the the peer the the peer replacement is in the general fund and so uh the peer replacement at the marina and weaver park are both in the general fund uh those are that 2.440 million and also we are also i mentioned going to get have in here an estimated line of credit and the estimated line of credit right now and these are just estimates is about 4.3 million for the general fund uh we're estimating that right now and that that number we'll keep evaluating uh as in the months ahead but that's kind of where we're at now uh the the general fund estimate will be about 4.3 million for that line of credit and the marina fund is roughly about 10 million give or take and we'll and that arena fund number we'll be evaluating too because as an example uh we just received that the 1.5 million dollar appropriation from the state for the marina so uh that'll reduce fema's obligations so that that that will help that line of credit because that grant we can get reimbursed on it won't need that line of credit for that so that that'll help and also help the match a little bit too in the marina fund so we'll be fine-tuning those numbers you know moving forward uh the uh the i'm sorry but i'll lose this thought you guys sent a thank you on the appropriations right can you do a prepare a letter for the five of us commissioners to sign to thank as well that would be great i think that's important that we all sign and thank them yeah i think so yeah that's great yeah and and you know the and on the far right i just you know there's not as much activity in 28 and 29 but on the far right you can see there's a net expense of 917 000 and that's and that's the activity for that that five-year time frame so uh that's the net expense with all those all those different ins and outs uh over that over that time period but if you take into consideration that we in 2025 we had the peer project budget in the general fund and at about 1.6 million so and that that that project has taken out and been replaced here in this in these storm estimates so if you take that 917 and you and you back out the the 1.6 million we already have budgeted for the peer we're actually we're actually right now with these estimates assuming that the state and fema does pay us back as expected a little better off in the general fund than we were you know uh uh before before the storm basically so and that includes you know paying some interest we'll have to pay some interest on the line of credit the uh the the fema will pay the interest for the peer replacement but but the interest on anything that's not permanent we'd have to pay so we're factoring in the budget that some of that interest is paid by fema and some of it's paid by us you know it's an estimate at this point but but uh but we are because we're already we're already going to pay for the peer anyway we're going to we had a 1.6 million dollar budget in there so the fact that that was in there and now it's out you know we're actually the net impact is we're just slightly better off just want to point that out over that five-year time frame assuming we're reimbursed as we expect so that that's highlights of this and happy to answer any questions on the detail any questions mr walker thanks mayor um all right so just walk me through this what i'm not seeing in here is maybe it's baked into something else is the 16 million dollars and the fema reimbursement is a revenue is that yeah the fema reimbursements in here are uh are in a couple things most of that reimbursement of most of the 16 of the 1.16 1.6 dollar reimbursement was for uh a lot of it was for the marina fund 7 7 million was marina fund and 9 million was was general fund and we've already received 2.3 in the general fund uh but the fema reimbursements we show them uh in 28 we're showing uh 2.3 million there uh as a female reimbursement uh towards uh in 28 column towards the bottom there and we've got a few others that are flowing in as well and uh you know 2.9 299 000 and uh are those all of them there gene that's right is that right yeah i'm sorry and we did space it out based on when we think a project's going to be completed and when we think we might get um obligation uh obligated on the project and get the funds back from fema so throughout the the different sections we tried to um combine like items together so it was easier to see you know the inflow and the outflow the first section in the top is the inflow and outflow on the interfund loan um the next section down is the inflow and the outflow on debris removal um and you see um in that section there is expedited funding we received in january 2.3 million and we're expecting the other 3.2 million this year um for grant management um that's the process where finance is working with tetra tech to manage the grant um throughout the course of the storm uh uh the work related to everything and so that's going to take a while so that we're showing reimbursement and for say space saving purposes i am showing the fema reimbursement and the state together because it will be happening around the same time so that is showing the 87.5 percent reimbursement um and tetra the next set set down is just another group of kind of some of them are bigger or the miscellaneous smaller projects not the big ones that um you know replacing vehicles that were um were damaged or destroyed the um removing trees at the golf course and the i think the resurfacing at the playground so that's the miscellaneous kind of stuff falling in there that les was saying we may not get reimbursed on the um interest portion of the loan but um there is we are showing that reimbursement out in 27 of 917 000. yeah and also thank you just real quick we in 2025 just want to point out this was mentioned earlier 2025 six the sixth line down we show a fema credit of 3238 that's the that's the remainder of the debris removal that we expect to get this december that's what that number is just want to point that out because we mentioned that earlier so we have it coming in different periods you know some in 25 in various years but we but we do show it you know kind of our best estimates at this point for them paying us back okay yeah so this this is really more project project based and event based revenue recognition yes okay all right that's that's why because if i add the numbers up it won't be that 16 million you you're spreading that out based on the okay right good question yeah thank you okay question uh commissioner the bottom line if i'm just reading the second page or page 19 correctly is that through all the storms if our assumptions about repayment are correct it cost us 917 000 that's correct okay thank you just want to be sure i understood yeah in the general fund general fund that's general fund marina fund will be additional marina fund will be additional yeah that's correct yeah um commissioner sandberg it was just uh one specific item that keeps popping up what's the update on uh weaver park pier i see it in here is it has it been inspected have we sorry clay you don't have to introduce yourself this time but for the public though it's clay walking utility engineering um that it was included in the list of inspections that we had approved for the consultant on the july 3rd meeting um we are working on getting our meeting but that is the first one that we are going to have them inspect is so i don't have a time frame as right now but it will be the first one when we get them out it will be that can it be repaired or does it have to be replaced i'll have to wait to the inspection i don't know i've personally one i've not personally seen all of it and yeah we have to wait till we get to inspection results okay i just saw it it was mentioned in here so all right that's all thank you okay okay vice mayor did you have anything are you good no i'm good yeah and i think i'm good too so okay um so are we going to the next section so mayor actually lunch is here oh and it's ready so i don't know if you want to want to forge on maybe through baseline or if you want to break now and pick up uh you tell us line item well you know baseline is just the facts you know so i think if we couldn't get through baseline and then we'll start with a fund by fund after lunch okay so let's do the baseline then we'll take lunch sounds good okay that's good okay um starting with uh our avalorium revenues uh these are the estimates we have as of uh these are as of our first estimates as of may 30th and those estimates from the county for assessed value growth were 4.69 percent for for the city of dunedin uh i do want to mention that since the the the final numbers came out july 1st and and our assessed value was a little better our assessed value into ended up at uh 5.21 increase so that's that's good news so we'll be adjusting the to the the tentative budget and increasing the revenue by about 74 000 in 2026 because of that because it went from 4.69 to 5.21 uh for the cra and the tiff the estimate uh the estimate was 4.83 percent and then the certified value on july 1st was more than that it was actually 6.33 percent so uh which is helpful so so the cra budget will increase revenue will increase by about thirty four thousand dollars with that increase in assessed value and we'll be doing that with the tentative budget uh we started out about two percent growth so you know it's not as much growth as the last few years but it it is help it is nice to see that we at least we at least got over five percent in the for the general fund uh our millage rate proposed is 4.1345 and and that's been our millage rate uh for the this will be the 12th year now and uh and as you know the max millage was approved by the commission uh at the meeting last evening uh next we have a graph that shows our our millage uh revenue and and millage rate over the over the last uh 12 year time frame and uh as you can see we've had steady growth uh you know over that time frame uh a little towards the top you know a little less with this last year but we've had some nice steady growth and the next one uh so uh this is for sort of a high our high level revenues uh high level revenues are uh general fund other taxes we're just kind of pointing out some uh some highlights here uh we're estimating our other taxes in 26 to be about a 4.6 less than the current year budget and the items that fall in that are electric services tax which you receive from duke energy uh cable cable and satellite television video streaming and that sort of thing we get uh also the the communications tax and the the primary reduction is our our actuals for uh revenue from duke and our electric services tax are trending lower than 25 than budget so we're adjusting uh 26 down based on that we'll continue to monitor that but that's what the lot the estimates were about a month ago so slight reduction in that compared to 25. penny revenue sales tax is estimated to be two percent growth over our 25 budget uh we're trending slightly higher in that a little bit this year but we're we're budgeting two percent more than our than our 25 budget next year at this point gas tax revenues uh have been going down the last few years unfortunately uh they're down we're estimating a 2.5 percent decrease next year compared to 25 and there's a trend of it it hasn't increased in years and it's actually gone down a couple years so we've got that relatively flat moving forward uh in in the gas tax fund and for our enterprise funds uh the solid waste fund has a zero percent increase in our 26 budget uh the solid waste fund is is doing a rate study currently they're in the process of a rate study and that's began about over a month ago and uh and and the goal is to work work through that rate study and then present that to the board of finance and your commission in advance so it's uh the goal would be to get it get it get it uh presented to your commission and get it and whatever the rate adjustments are hopefully get those approved so we can implement the rate change whatever it is uh april 1st of this year so we we get six months of this fiscal year at whatever that rate adjustment ends up being so but we are in the middle of that study right now um the water wastewater utility rate is uh an increase of 15 percent and 26 and that and that's based on the uh the ordinance that was just approved by the commission 2504 on the june 5th meeting that set the rates uh for the for the water sewer fund and storm water rate increase is 29.9 percent in 26 over 25 and that's consistent with the storm storm rate utility study that was done last year and approved on july 11 2024 and that was a three-year rate study and this is the second year of that and that'll be 29.9 percent on the expenditure side uh we uh we look at uh we've got our salary and benefits first salary and benefits we have our our merit increase of 3.5 percent which is across uh across the city and all funds with the exception of our fire union employees uh they've got their their agreed their agreed uh collective bargaining agreement and and their south their salaries are based on that agreement uh there's no changes to the minimums or maximums ranges and uh the 26 proposed budget right now includes an 11 percent increase in health insurance cost which is a pretty large increase uh we're still fine tuning that number working with uh with our director of hr and risk management and and our consultants gearing group unfortunately uh that number may go up or um uh we'll we'll be presenting detail information at the august 6th meeting on that but that number is going to be we think anywhere from 11 to 15 percent at this at this point a year over year uh and for operating costs uh we we look at we asked all departments to try to stay within three percent of their operating budget and and we we will have their controllable costs so we exclude we exclude utility costs and isf charges and things that are sort of out of their control but we look at their controllable costs and and see if they uh who was able most departments were able to stay in the three percent but we had a few that weren't and i just want to focus to highlight those real quickly the impact fee fund had an increase of fifteen uh fifteen thousand five hundred sixty thousand dollars and that's a new a new bpi for the bell trees ada improvements in 2026 the building fund had an increase of 13 percent and that was uh twenty seven thousand dollars and that was for increased training to staff for their new elp erp system that was rolled out last year just continued training for that uh the gas tax fund uh increased uh four percent and that was due to the addition of we've got uh some pavement management condition assessment software new software and that's thirty thousand dollars thirty five thousand dollars excuse me uh in 2026 and that's offset by a decrease of 25 000 for the sidewalk inspection and maintenance program and we'll talk more about gas tax later uh that as i mentioned that that fund the revenues are are have been flat or going down and we've got a few challenges in that fund we'll talk about later uh the solid waste fund is increased uh by 155 000 and that's mainly due to disposal and tipping fees increase in 26 over 25 and stormwater has an increase of 87 percent or 2.3 million due to an increase of 2.4 million for the gabium and replacement program in 2026 and i want to mention that the city was awarded the usda emergency watershed protection grant in the amount of 3.1 million for this project the total grant proceeds are 4.6 million with the balance uh offset offsetting expenditures on the ditch maintenance program and facility maintenance fund we had an increase of 4.7 percent uh due mainly to an increase in the custodial contract of 15 000 and the addition of the work planning software that was mentioned earlier for 50 000 in 2026 the risk safety fund projected increase now is a 10 increase for our property insurance we're still fine tuning that number two but right now we're estimating 10 in 2026 increase across all funds and the health health fund is an increase of 10 percent and i mentioned again that that that may be higher than that we'll still we're still evaluating that so that covers uh high level the uh the baseline assumptions thank you okay um questions um vice mayor mr sandberg none mr walker mr degard i have one question the uh wastewater water plus 15 percent in the stormwater 29.9 i think this goes back to messaging because i think the story might be told better if it's you know comparable numbers to the actual dollar increase especially in stormwater um so just kind of a thought as we message that out i'm looking at sue so um but anyway that was just my only thought okay all right so i think we're ready for lunch and then we're gonna after that we'll have a full day of long range fund projections okay thank you we go right to long range fund projections i think starting with general fund but i'll turn it over to anything else for the good of the order city manager before we go to less nothing ready to go okay great all right thank you uh starting with the general fund uh just want to mention that the general fund is our city's main operating account and many of our departments are paid out of the general fund and some brief uh brief background before going in here our our general fund as we walk through this is uh in 2026 our available fund balance is we're we're above our target we're 15.7 percent our target is 15 percent for our for our policy uh in 2026 in future years we do have a a shortfall that we'll be talking about as we move into the future years but but we are balanced for fiscal year 26. i'd like to go over some of the highlights in uh in the general fund to start with uh and starting with revenue we've got uh property taxes of 4.6 percent increase over 2025 and that's due to our assessed value increase that we had uh at 4.6 percent uh and that will increase to 5.21 percent in our tentative budget we will be making that adjustment uh license and permits revenue has increased by six percent 6.4 percent or 230 000 and that's due to an increase in uh a slight increase in the franchise fee revenue and adjustments to the gas tax the gas franchise fee revenue and parking bank revenue combination of those charges for services have increased by 978 000 and that's primarily due to an increased reimbursement from the county of 615 000 for the uh from the for the firefighters and the ems uh cost in 2026 and also an increase in our administrative fee uh from the enterprise funds mainly due to the some of the increases in the uh stormwater revenue and the water sewer revenue a year over year and the last is miscellaneous revenue that decreased by uh just over a million dollars and that was due last year in 2025 we had a a nine uh debt proceeds for a fire truck uh that we leased for 960 000 that was not in 2026 for that that's the reason for that variance and moving to the expenditures for a minute uh personnel costs are up 7.8 percent in 2026 over 2025. uh that's we have our merit increase of 3.5 percent for all non-union employees and then we have our uh our bargaining agreement for our our fire department uh wages increased about 880 thousand dollars year over year and benefits increased about about 815 thousand dollars and in the in the benefits it was it was health and retirement that were most of that increase uh for operating costs uh it's a small variance but i want to point out that we have non-reoccurring operating which is uh like repairs and repairs and maintenance type projects then we have ongoing operating within this number and uh for the uh non-reoccurring or repair and maintenance work we actually had a decrease of about eight hundred thousand dollars in 26 compared to 25 and that's because of the community center roof project that was in 2025 and not in 2026 uh and then we had in we had offsetting increases in our ongoing operating costs for uh our fleet fleet replacements increased by 500 000 in 2026 and that was mainly for the fire department the increase the increase in building up up the funds to purchase uh the future fleet especially the uh the three large uh fire engines and also sheriff costs went up 453 000 uh and that net amount is that 15 000 change you see in the slide also we had an increase in capital of eight 8.7 million dollars in 26 and that was due primarily to we we've we've included the highland aquatic complex in the general fund this year that was not in last year's to fully fund that project at 8.3 million dollars and we'll be talking more about that and a few slides later we also had the fishing pier increase of 1.8 million with an offset decrease uh cost of the the fire truck was purchased last year not not in 2026 and also we had a reduction in our solar our solar improvements of 550 000 in 26 compared to 25 and our debt services increased some in general fund by 485 000 in our proposed budget and that's due to we have our first debt service payment on that fire truck that we just financed and that's 150 000 increase and also we've got two hundred and fifteen thousand dollars estimated in the budget for the line of credit that we will be uh uh getting some time probably in november of this year and also we have transfer out uh variants transfer us that they increased by 5.1 million and that's because we're proposing that we we we pay back the five million dollar loan from the fleet fund we received five million dollars from the fleet fund for storm damage and we're recommending as soon as we receive the uh the remainder of the debris movement the the debris removal payments from fema which we think will be decent uh december of this year we'd like to pay off that internal loan and and with the fleet funding moving forward um next is some of the assumptions in the general fund uh our our av assumptions for future years uh 27 out to 31 we're projecting a four percent increase uh that's slightly less than last year our last year we're at four and a half we have dropped it to four a slight reduction uh just because the the av being a little bit lower this year a little more conservative on that and then and then three percent in the last year uh also we had uh we also had changes to we have two percent increase in other taxes intergovernmental revenue two percent and charged for service 2.2 and those are just our factors and estimates in the future years 27 to 31 in our long range plan uh kind of big picture we began our budget process in march uh working with the city manager and the finance department we met with all the departments in may the city manager met with all the departments and walked through the budgets we uh we started with a three million dollar shortfall in 2026 when we first began the budget process and this slide is showing some of the highlights of some of the things we've uh we moved or took out to get to kind of where we are today basically and uh this is this is a list of changes that we made and as i mentioned most are moved out you can kind of see the notes on the right uh the total reduction is about 3.3 million dollars that we that we reduced 2026 to to get to the uh proposed budget numbers and the and the departments on the far left uh you know there are a lot of you know there were fire and parks and rec had a lot of requests uh that none of them were none of them i don't believe were were taken out they were they were moved out in other words we weren't saying they weren't important but we did take some of them out of 26 so but that's the list that we work through to uh to get to where we're at today and moving to uh moving to the long range plan uh as i mentioned if you look at the look at the 26 year uh the column are at uh at the bottom the very first yellow highlighted row shows a 15.7 reserve and i mentioned you know our target's 15 so we are above that and that and that's our goal uh to be at that or higher uh and uh we've got two ways we show the general fund we show the general fund first with without a budget shortfall being addressed and then and then down below in the second highlight yellow column you see or row you see that's where we address the shortfall and uh if you look at the first highlighted row uh it shows the estimated available fund balance and you look as i mentioned 26 shows 15.7 percent and then 27 shows it drops to 7.5 percent and then lower in 28 in future years and that's due to expenses being more than budget during those years uh one of one of the key things that that i see when i look at this and we and we and this this has been similar in the last couple of years but if you look at the revenue overs expenditures which uh is about the fourth line from the bottom you can see that starting in uh in 27 actually from from 20 from 25 through through 31 our revenues are are more than our expenses are less than our expenses our expenses are more than our revenues every year so uh part of part of our balancing 26 uh includes having a carryover in in in 2025 estimate and if you look at the estimate in 2025 uh at the uh it shows a 34 reserve uh i mentioned earlier that uh we have fema flowing through fema's included in this general fund we've got we've got about two we've got about 2.5 million dollars or so that is included included in that number if and we're showing a 34 reserve but i wanted to mention if that if the fema numbers were not in there it'd be about a 26 reserve still a good reserve but i wanted to point out that that reserve looks a little bit higher than it would have without this without the storm activity i want to mention that we still have a 26 still a good reserve but then we wrote then we go into 26 and we uh we have storm uh numbers in here too that we mentioned earlier but we but but with both those years included we are we are above our 15 percent uh 15.7 percent target us does that stay 15 does that a carryover so fema if that if if 25 goes down to 26 percent does 15 go down excuse uh so in 25 it's 34 24 but you said depending on fema could go down to 25 26 what happens to 27 or 20 20 26 the 15.7 percent does that go down then no no it doesn't the 15.7 it stays okay so that's not a it doesn't roll it it's all there i just was i was just trying to point out i just wanted a quick clarification good question yeah thank you it changes all pictures so thank you unless before you can do may or may i before les continues so just a couple of things um that i want to say about this and and um lesa and i have discussed this uh in depth yesterday as well um you'll notice in our digital budget book um that that we only have through fiscal year 2026 right and the reason for that is that that is a year that you are adopting there's been some confusion in the past in terms of where we forecast out all the way out to 2031 you are not adopting those years you are not adopting a deficit budget right so um and we're going to put those those the forecasts and those those outlying years as an addendum in the digital budget book so that it's very clear to the public that that you are adopting fiscal year 2026. typically those numbers get better we're not sure that they're going to um and and as i said less than i discussed this and i and i know what he's going to say next but anyway so um but i just wanted to make that very clear for anybody who's listening in today what it is you're looking at specifically is fiscal year 2026. thanks jennifer and uh want to point out the the bottom yellow row highlighted row uh the uh what what we've done below is and we've been we've done this for a number of years is we as you can see you know we've got a we've got we've got negative fund balance out in 28 so we've got we've got a structural deficit going on here and we've and the estimate with our current numbers is that it's about 5.8 million dollars a year it's about 5.8 million dollars a year if you look at the the number right above the the second highlighted uh row and so that's it that's the average amount of shortfall that we we have in this these this particular scenario in the proposed budget and and again and and that can be addressed we've said before that can be addressed with increasing revenues it can be addressed with reducing expenses or a combination of both you know it can be addressed many ways but i want to remind you again how we kind of how we how we present this and uh as jennifer mentioned you know that the 26 budget which is the budget we're where we will be adopting in september is is it's a one-year budget and all these and and 27 to 31 is just a forecast for information and also being transparent you know it's good for it's a great planning tool um i i did want to point out and i mentioned uh i mentioned uh i mentioned a few slides backs about the storms uh and the the the shortfall a big picture our last year adopted budget in 2025 uh with uh we had a shortfall estimated uh over those over that five-year period of 2.1 million so we were at 2.1 million and now we're at 5.8 million and i wanted to briefly kind of highlight uh how we go from one to the other uh first off uh for revenues revenues are lower over the five-year period slightly lower than they were last year they're about over the five-year period they're about 3.8 million dollars uh less over the five-year period and that's that's due to uh assessed value uh uh revenues are less than last year because we've got less budgeted this year and uh and that that extrapolates out in future years uh so we're slightly lower on revenues and also we've got other we've got some revenue sources that are flat or flat or slightly uh slightly less than the last couple years uh and that's that's uh part of that too that makes up that 3.8 million dollar uh adjustment you know i mentioned before we will be looking at revenues again we we know we always look at it a couple times throughout the year these were these were revenue with actuals of current year to to figure out uh the analysis uh you know through about six months and now we now we have another month or two we'll look at and we maybe we may be making adjustments to some of the revenue sources but i don't expect there to be huge increases but we may be fine-tuning some of the revenue estimates uh on on the on the expenditure side uh personnel costs really are very close our estimates last year in 26 or future years were very very close to what we have now in our in our five-year plan so we factored in the uh we we basically take our we take all of our general fund employees and then we we break out fire separately because of the contract and we and we go through an analysis with sort of here's fire and everybody's else so uh personnel costs are very close to last year over that five year period just a few thousand dollars difference uh operating costs have increased in 26 uh by about one million dollars ongoing operating costs i think and again that's key the ongoing operating we have non-reoccurring which are one-time repairs and maintenance and then we have our ongoing but our ongoing operating has increased about uh 4.9 million over that five-year period and that's that and that's because our 26 is about 1.1 million more than 25 and some of the key drivers of that are uh the isf costs for the general fund are up about 438 000 uh and that's mostly i mentioned before most of that is the replacements for the uh some of the fire vehicles that they've gone up dramatically in price and just trying to uh get in front of that so that the amount correct amount of funding is there when they replaced those fire engines also sheriff costs went up 456 000 uh that was an eight percent increase and insurance costs i've already mentioned it has gone up a lot so those are those are the three key drivers that are that have really uh increased the operating cost in 20 in 26 over 25 and on the capital side we have our we have our capital plan and and over the five-year period and uh we've got uh included in that is that is the non-reoccurring and also repairs and maintenance and also just our regular capital projects and and we have we have more capital projects over that five-year period than we had last year and uh by about five million dollars or 5.4 million dollars and and what that is is basically there there are new projects that have been added that you know that have uh and two good two good examples of that are the way but i talked about the waywood bridge uh that was not in the budget last year now it's in at 2.5 million fisher little league complex lights were not in the budget last year now they're in this year over the five-year time at eight hundred thousand dollars and then also a few others we had a public work storage building of three hundred thousand as another example that was not in the budget last year so we we have uh and some of these were requested to be in 26 but we push them out to future years we didn't we didn't take them out of the five-year plan we wanted to of course share with the commission but but they are but that that ask and that ask for capital over the five years much higher than it was last year so that that increases the cost uh and also another new project in the general fund uh is the i mentioned a little bit earlier the aquatic complex you know that's budgeted at 8.3 million uh the rest of the funding for that is in the penny fund but we've got uh to full to have it fully funded we've got uh about uh 11 million or 10 million in the penny fund then we've got 8 million in the general fund in the proposed budget and and with that we've we're we're showing right now the project uh project getting financed in in 26 and then debt service starting uh in the next year uh and that debt service uh the assumption in in this is a 10-year bank loan but and the thought process we get a 10-year bank loan for the aquatic complex uh for through the general fund and we would the general fund would make the payments the first uh the first year out through 2030 with with the plan the plan would be that assuming penny five passes with the voters that we've moved that debt service to the penny fund in 2030 and after but right now it's in the general fund out through 31 if penny if penny five did not pass then then it would be a general fund obligation the full 10 years obviously but but but but but that's what we have and and that that debt service is 870 000 a year uh in the general fund so that that starts in 27 and that's another driver that's about an 800 000 driver in in the increase in that shortfall uh with that with that project so so those are kind of the highlights of uh uh of you know kind of what's what's changed from last year to this year big picture uh and the the total impacts of those numbers i just mentioned when you take into consideration the revenues are down some about three three point six million and the expenses the expenses are up quite a bit with capital and operating that total is about a 14 million dollar number and if you divide that by those five years you come up with about 2.8 million and that's that's kind of the the big picture math of how that number goes from uh you know 2.125 to about 5.8 in in in this proposed budget uh and kind of big picture uh you know there we've we've since i've been here we've had we've had a uh we've gone back and forth with our uh our budget shortfall you know as for over the past six years we've we've always balanced our budget and uh we talked a little bit yesterday you know we we had reserves first three years i was here i would say we our reserves were right at 15 we were pretty tight we we always of course met our goal but uh but we were tight in the last few years we've been able to build those up which is great you know and we've been able to build them up partly you know arpa helped us out for sure arpa helped out our capital projects and also helped out some of our initiatives and uh you know that was uh that that was helpful for a period of time and we still have some upper dollars but most of those have are obligated or spent as as you all know uh and uh and also you know i think uh and our our the pressures i see our labor as our labor has increased quite a bit over the last three years uh you know we we we did our salary survey uh we and we've done other other things to make sure that we retain people and and and are competitive you know and uh and with that you know and also you know we had our we have our fire negotiation last year and to be competitive you know we adjusted that so our labor has gone up you know quite a bit in the last three years you know that and and that puts pressure on the numbers uh and we've also had as i mentioned on the operating side we've had just a lot of we've our our liability our property insurance has pretty much doubled in the last three years i mean or close to it uh and uh oh definitely i say three years it's doubled and we've got we've had other pressures with our internal service funds you know with uh the needs there that that that flows through to the general fund you know this year's increase in the internal service funds is minimal in the general fund last year it was it was a it was a pretty big increase and and and that changes some of that's capital you know it moves around but uh but with all but with all this you know you know kind of big picture uh i've i've talked to i've met with the city manager we talked about this a lot you know quite a bit you know in the last couple of months and uh you know i i think you know my thought is and our and i believe that jennifer's thought is you know we we really need to look at building a plan to to increase to increase revenues and and when i say that looking at user fees uh in depart and and we've we've looked at lots of user fees we've gone you know we're doing our rate studies but you really make sure we've looked at all of our program revenue in all of our departments to make sure that we're we're we're we're getting a uh a reasonable you know a reasonable fee and and and and it's paying for the cost you know look at that and also look at uh our our cost of services and and and i think we need to uh in and probably over the next two or three year time frame figure out you know figure out some uh factor in some sort of a millage increase you know i just think that we're not sustainable without either we're not sustainable long term without uh uh a millage increase and and and and we think i think it should be a two-pronged approach i think i think we back into we back into the millage increase you know while we also look at you know how do we how do we look at doing our some of our uh be more efficient and reduce cost because i i i think we need to look at reducing cost and how we do that along with factoring in you know how we how we uh back into a a millage increase and the millage increase maybe over two years not over one year and and i'm not even saying what that millage would be right now but we we think i think and i'm recommending i think it needs to be a two-pronged approach to where we are looking at you know and we we once this budget's complete we start working on with the departments you know what's you know buckets of options to reduce costs uh whether that be we close we close the we close all the facilities on weekends uh what does that save you know what are the fixed and variable costs and and and what's that look like uh along with many other options you know looking at strategic uh maybe maybe strategic uh changes in programs or or reductions in programs you know uh and just kind of just kind of looking at looking at all the things that are out there and uh and also just and also i think identifying what you know uh what's essential and you know and and what's nice to have you know and definition of nice to have is different for everybody different for a lot of people but just kind of going through and and looking at you know uh different recommendations to present to the to the commission of ways to reduce reduce costs because i think because a millage increase will give us about uh if we if we increased our millage by one one millage if we went from 4.1 to 5.1 that'd be about 4.7 million dollars more in revenue uh if we did that i'm not recommending that but i'm just saying that that's that's a mathematical calculation but i think i think you know some some millage increase over a year or two uh either in 27 or 28 i i i'm not i'm not sure what year that would be or 20 28 29 uh but but also looking at looking at the expenditure side and uh and and reducing reducing costs where we can so that's kind of big picture you know again we have a balanced budget for 26 and and we do and uh and and and that and and we'll and we will continue to fine-tune this 26 budget but uh we we do i i do think that with our labor pressures and and operating costs and everything i think that i i think our we we want to start trying to get in front of you know how do how do we rebalance and and get it to where this this this number is a much lower number you know in the outer years okay i'm assuming there's some questions here um this will start mr walker side thank you mayor um it looks to me like just basically the only fema reimbursement that has been factored into this is that 2.6 million dollar reimbursement for the debris removal is that the only fema that's in here no we no we've got we have fema uh we have fema reimbursement that you mentioned in 2025 but then in 2026 and 27 we have we have the other fema reimbursements in in those future years too yeah they okay yeah all right um then uh the other question i had was is the operating expense from 25 to 26 you probably mentioned this but um it went from 27 million the estimate went from 27 million to uh 20 million and 20 million looks to be fairly consistent across the out years uh what what's that seven million dollar increase in operating expenses what was this the storm damage yeah that was some of the storm damage cost storm damage yeah that's okay yeah good question yeah all right um yeah i think that's all the questions i have i mean they're obviously uh the comment on uh the potential here for increasing the millage issues got us all paying attention here so um do greatly appreciate that uh we look at those those cost saving things going forward but anyway i'll ask the questions i have mr ducard thank you mayor um as we take a look at this we're seeing over an eight-year period an increase in total expenditures of 59 that's that's that's going to be a little difficult for us to manage from an income standpoint i mean that's what we're clearly saying our expenditures are growing substantially and our revenue is increasing but at a much diminished rate that's exactly right our our revenue is like in in you know in 23 and 24 we had we had good revenue growth our assessed value increase was you know just over 10 each year and and our other revenue streams did really well those two years too um in 25 we're we're seeing you know our assessed value was good in 25 you know last year was 10 percent but our our revenues in some of our other areas our larger revenues in other areas are flat or slightly under than what we would have uh what we will be projected so and again that that happens you know uh with certain revenue streams uh sales tax revenue in the general fund is less than last year in the penny fund our sales tax surcharge is 2.7 percent growth to date and the general fund is negative uh 1.5 percent growth so so what that means is is you know the our penny our penny revenue is is that is sales tax activity in in our county county pinellas and our state uh our state revenue is what we get in the general fund so so the states statewide were uh currently about 1.5 percent less than last year so it's not a huge decrease but we you know we assumed a two percent increase in the general fund so just little things like that uh differences where you would when you adjusted them you know do make a difference can you when you you know extrapolate them out so so but you're in in 26 we're seeing uh you know a little bit av growth of five percent or this is 4.6 percent and but the other revenue streams are have slight increases but uh some are very flat and some are a little a little under last year so revenues are growing at a in 26 much less than expenditures dramatically right now we're looking at uh several things we're in our enterprise funds we're looking at increased rates for our our customers and for our citizens we're looking at an increased rate in levy while they're seeing an increase in their property value and if they haven't really in seen an increase relative to their income they're in a squeeze and they're not going to be particularly excited about an increase in the levy if i'm reading the room this is going to make for a lot of disturbed citizens yeah i think you know and and and the timing uh you know i think we're i think we're we'll be we'll get through 27 i i think the timing would be to look at it look consider well first looking at reducing expenses in 27 where we can and and we'll work through the commission with that for sure and then but on the revenue side i think that would be a that would be a 28 not a 27 thing to me i mean that's up to the jennifer and the commission but i think we can get through 27 and uh you know uh and make that work but but ongoing in 28 and 29 i think i think it will become more challenging yeah with these numbers i see that um i'm gonna say it this way no more questions at this time thanks mayor the uh when you say growth you mean uh yeah not only thank you not not only did our property values increase but they also did that because people were moving here and for those people buying new homes they had to really the the property tax really changed for them right it only incrementally changes if you already have your home due to the exemptions so it's the new people coming here that are really driving the increase in the property taxes along with post-covid you had a ton of people wanting to get out of their homes so tourism up was was up and we had some 10 12 sales tax money coming in be because of that and we've seen that drop over the last year or two and so is is this a concern for us or is this just kind of we're back to normal uh which is why i asked about pre-covid yeah i i think that i think we are more back to normal i you know like real estate market slowed down everyone's know that in the last year real estate market has slowed down so you know homes are not homes were selling but they're on the market a lot longer there's a lot less trans there's a lot less transactions that happened last year than the year before as far as someone someone closing closing and that assessed value going up you know because because of that increased cost of the person being there so that you know that's part of a little bit of it too i think along you know with the storm things that happened last year which is kind of an anomaly but i think that i think the av growth is is more uh aside from the storm maybe start maybe starting to normalize a little bit to where you know we we you know getting 10 for multiple years is not the norm it's not you know so you know and i don't think i i don't i don't there's lots of talk in the economy about where the economy is you know uh i the the assessor i i talked to the assessor the assessor's assistant not the assessor not uh but about a week ago and and and you know what you know because what's your crystal ball for next year for us and you know and his thought was hey i think you're probably be about you know what i see right now five percent you know that's what he said so and that's that was kind of a rough estimate but uh but so i think and i think that's kind of more normal five to seven is more normal than uh you know tens and twelves right okay um so if we're really not seeing any relief through revenue as it stands now right it comes back to your your your comments about our millage um or trying to reduce expenses somehow um which echoes all the comments but here yeah that raising a millage rate is a little concerning for us because residents are already hurting right they're hurting with their property taxes uh just like we are property insurance just like we are health insurance just like we are and and so to to pile on is really really concerning for me um in reducing expenses i'm i know i know fire is going to be so excited um but i have said it before and i don't and i don't know that there'd be any financial impact on this but i do like the idea of going smaller and we have huge fire apparatuses and and there are other countries that don't and word on the street is they both have the same equipment on them so what is the difference and why does ours have to be so big and i think that certainly is worth investigating especially if it can end up with a reduced cost of of the apparatus and if it shows no real value in going bigger going more expensive than why would we want to do that um and then that leads to my whole preaching about smaller streets and things of that nature but it also has just physical impacts to the city so if we could start to do that um and those are all my comments for now other than this is a scary conversation thank you mr sandberg can you go back to the the screen that had all the numbers the bottom line numbers had the multi-years projected that one right there all right budget 2026 property taxes of course we beat that to death last night give me an example of other taxes i'm gonna look at gene here hold on electric service tax yeah one of the big ones is the electric service tax for that that's just one of the and that's that's what it shows up on my duke bill every month right that's right okay that's one of them what else would be included in that other taxes are the um electric and uh the duke and clearwater gas taxes um a simplified simplified uh communication service tax which is shows up on our verizon and at&t bill correct correct yeah um local business tax light census but that's a pretty small number um and i think that those are the big those are pretty much it okay license permits is that building permits what kind of give me some examples of that okay building permits that's like licenses and fees franchise fee revenue in there yeah franchise fee revenue that's the other tax on the duke on your duke payment franchise fee okay let me look at that section for you yeah and also gas frant gas franchise fee uh is another one of the larger ones in there i think yeah gas gas franchise fee electric franchise fee those are the two bigger ones there are some smaller ones for tree bank fees um parking bank fees um fire plan review um yeah a bunch of those smaller kind of um very those are minimal compared to the franchise tax fee okay and how about a couple examples of charges for services that's a large one uh one of the larger ones there is uh is you know the county pays for all of our ems uh uh in fire and the county also pays 12 of all of our firefighters so that's that's that's two of the big ones and what else you got there gene then we've got all the parks the revenue for the parks programs would be in in charges for services so you mean those parents that are sending their kids to day camp today yep rental of the facilities it's a pretty big number 10 million what's the biggest what's the biggest driver out of 10 million the the biggest um that one also has this uh category also has the um admin fees that get paid from the enterprise funds that looks like that's the biggest do you have a dollar amount for fire and that's about that's about three million or more yeah four million yeah yeah because flyers ems is is all paid for so that's a pretty big number yeah that's about three three point six million it looks like yeah all right so if we take those total revenues is 56 million just under 56.6 million the total expenditures are 64.6 million and i think you started to touch on it less yeah are we going to increase our revenues or are we going to cut our expenditures yeah well the that 64 million number that includes that includes storm costs again you know in other words so you got you got about three million three million uh storm costs in there that sort of makes that larger but but but but big picture even without that uh you know the uh if you look at our revenues uh in 26 our total revenues you know are 56 64 and uh you know but uh one of our one of our biggest challenges is is you know if you look at our personal personnel and operating costs they're about 40 you know 43 million you know in 2026 when you add the 23 plus the 20 and that that number is is uh is if you back out the fema activity that numbers is uh the revenue is not a lot more than operate it's not a lot more than operating and personnel so that doesn't leave a lot for capital you know so that's kind of uh over the long term you know right over the future years you know 26 that years you know i don't know just one year but but over the long term you know with the with the current estimate revenue stream and the estimated expenditures again it's just estimates of course with assumptions they you know the uh in the outer years uh the the uh the the operating cost um for instance i'll go i'll go to 2030 2030 the revenue is 40 uh 49.4 million and uh and then we've got uh you know our expenses are for personnel are 28 and 22 which is slightly more than that revenue total as an example we our revenues are 49 and our our personnel costs are 28.1 and our operating costs are 22.3 okay so you know so that's just it's just kind of big picture just showing that there's not there's not there's not much for capital and non-reoccurring uh like repairs and maintenance type costs you know when you when you look at it from that standpoint may or may i yes please go i think actually i want to take a step back and look at it bigger picture than um what you know what what we forecast for 2030 because it is just that a forecast and it's predicated upon the information that we have now which invariably will change by the time we get to 2030. we've been talking about the structural deficit for a while and my phone is talking to me now it's just that i don't know what you're talking about but um the yeah i hope i do i hope i do and what les is talking about and the conversations that he and i have had is that recognizing and you spoke about on the dais as well um recognizing uh we have a structural deficit and have had in the six years that les has been here in the eight years that i've been here almost eight years that i've been here that we need to put together a plan which addresses that structural deficit directly and is a a longer term plan um you know commissioner asks do you increase uh revenue and and d you know what do you do increase revenue and uh decrease expenditures and yes yes both and decrease in expenditures is not just tightening our belt and decreasing operating it's decreasing levels of service in the organization as well so that would impact the general public in a different way than than than the increase in millage so we would need to use every tool available to us to address that structural deficit with as little impact on the public as we can but there will be impact in a different number of ways also if we're looking at uh uh programs so if we need to you know the attendance in this program is not as much as it should be we need to eliminate that program then we can make the recommendation to eliminate the program um over a period of time and then staff by attrition right and and so on and so forth so there just needs to be a larger uh uh plan if you will and not looking at numbers you know here there and everywhere but but more comprehensively and put something before the city commission so that you understand you know the direction that that we feel that we need to go to and adopt that direction it might be a millage rate a half year here and a half year there do the excuse me half a mil one year half mil another if that half mil you know does it then then we're good you know and the decrease in services and that type of a thing so um really what what what is important for uh for me and for less um is to ensure that it is on your radar that it's on your horizon that you understand and that that that working collaboratively it's something that we need to address and will continue to address year to year may i continue yes i wasn't worried about 2030 i was right about 2026 so if we had you know and as i'm looking at these at these expenditures are you able to go out on a limb and give some examples of items we may have to cut out in expenditures i heard services and i've heard closing of buildings on weekends right off the top of your head can you openly say something that would kind of give some direction on what we would do if we had to well uh for 2026 commissioner 2026 no no right now right yeah i mean right now no i mean but but you know if if uh we're balanced right now we're 15.7 percent if we if we have it if we get below 15 percent then we'll have to make adjustments you know in other words and we will work with the city manager and we'll rebalance and and that would uh that could be a lot of different things it could be be pushing out another project that we that we feel is the the least important next year and move to a future year uh wouldn't necessarily be eliminating anything but possibly moving moving something that we we feel is uh the lower priority that has to be done if that makes sense you know that it could wait another year i guess it doesn't not when i see an eight million dollar deficit and i know you're telling me it does but i see what's right in front of me and i'm sure i'm not the only one that looks at it to see it like that so well uh you know and that's that's really why when we're talking about adopting the budget for fiscal year 2026 and then putting together the plan to to address the long-range plan and and what you see in front of you this is transparency and and as i said the numbers move around a little bit and they get traditionally they get better as we as we approach um that particular funding year so um this year we have we have a balanced budget um and we need to work on next year and as soon as we adopt this budget we'll start working on next year and then within that time frame put together that plan for you that's going to address this okay i can see that uh i'm done thank you okay and again that would be you know we we next year we'd be looking at operating costs you know reduced operating costs you know uh reducing things such as training and travel you know i'm just throwing a couple basic things out but you know there's a lot of there's a lot of things we can we can quickly quickly do to make to make adjustments uh you know not huge adjustments but adjustments you know okay um so sorry if i'm going to repeat a few things but um so the eight million dollar deficit for 2026 is because of storm expenses that won't yet have been reimbursed in later years yeah part of that eight million is there's a is there's there's a lot of storm activity expenses in 26 so there's like three million in that year so that without storm 26 would probably be that number would probably about five million and not eight million but the storm the storm expenses are flowing through in 26 uh and the revenue is flowing through 25 but it's but 26 has more expenses so so uh but that eight million would probably be five million negative if the storm activity was not in there in 2026 and then um your estimates are typically less tyler conservative as they usually are you know uh a little less conservative than normal the normal i mean in other words i i i i have you know my estimates were were based on you know what looking at you know the critical thing we use is you know current year actuals you know to help us you know because uh present prepare the next year's estimates and i and i did that like 45 days ago i'll be looking at it again with another month and in some cases two months depending on the funding source and seeing if did it change any you know in other words is is it still the same pattern or is it gone up or down that kind of thing so i think there's probably a little bit of movement that i think maybe some of these might go up but i i but but it's not it's not overly conservative at this point now not overly conservative um the um so the reduction in property tax has the impact of how much on the property tax reduction over the over the that the five years is about 1.3 million and then we've got we've got other revenue sources that are are under that are estimated less than than than last year uh other ones that is that storm related too or not no no that's just that's just like half cent sales tax is is budgeted less uh revenue sharing's budgeted less that's coming in a little lower we just have and again for a long time those revenues were flat then they had some really nice growth for about three years and now they're they're flattening out again a little bit so it is it is a little bit sickle too for some of these revenue sources what did we show as our structural deficit last year 2.1 million yeah in the final budget yeah so again like um get the storm piece but then what else is the biggest jump driver to such as such a big jump the biggest jump i would say is uh the you know we we talked earlier we we want to get we want to get these projects in here we need to do well we put we bridge in and so the capital projects over this time frame are about 5.5 million more than they were over that same time frame last year so we that we put new projects in here that that need to be done but but they weren't in last year so that's five million more of costs that are in the plan that weren't in there for capital um the breakdown of like that 12 million 275 in capital where is that where do we find that so we can just i mean nothing i just want for me to look at a later time in the budget book yeah i mean if you can just tell me because i just so i could look at it um so and and on that note you know and we bridge i guess is a good example as this moves along and we have more information we will control what we can and can't afford yes okay and so in some ways built into this is will be some of that ability to control what we can and can't afford and make a decision on you know basically how much we can put on our homeowners versus what we really need as a city versus don't need right and also i think along with that discussion we don't need right away right whatever and and along with that discussion we'll we'll be talking about penny for pinellas five you know and and you know do some of these projects that we have in there now can they can they wait for penny five or should it should be a penny five projects you know that's another another thing that some of these might fall into possibly well and it's a good comment because we've really talked about at some point because of where we're at with capital expenditures that anything that's not like critical is just going to have to wait in anticipation yes for penny five yes and pray that it happens because you know every municipality would be dead uh without the penny um and that's an exercise i don't know that we've taken as seriously you know i mean like you know let's go back to the the vehicle this morning you know i mean can we afford i mean that's a that's a small small cost but again that exercise of what can really wait and what can't right so and all those will be decisions that the city commission will make right um um because this is quite a jump in in the in the structural deficit and it's very very concerning and it and it's um you know when you're looking at the need to you can only go so far off the rack and i mean we've always like had enough of a structural deficit we've made up for it because the estimates you know were conservative and then all of a sudden they came in better and so it all kind of worked itself out but at some point you don't want to get so far from that leap that you wait until catching up is going to be extreme we don't want to get too extreme we want to get to okay what do we do now right to be good stewards of it um without you know without hurting our quality of life you know to a point so right um and that's really mayor if i may why we want to put together that plan right i but i but again i you know and i've said this every budget year i mean like when when we would be debating the rollback it was kind of like i don't want to debate the rollback i want to debate how do we stay have an austerity plan now that makes us live within our millage that we already have and um and so i guess my expectation would be that the staff now should already be thinking and having an internal plan that would be bringing stuff to us that thinks about oh my god we can't wait till the extreme moment right yes okay um okay well i mean i've drifted into some comments but um okay um and the other the other large increase i mentioned capital operating costs operating costs have gone up dramatically the last three years you know i mean they're they went up 1.1 million dollars in 25 to 26. i mentioned you know it's insurance and i mentioned the things it is but it's it's significantly more than our revenues revenues increased well and our operating departments only went up no more than two percent right so yeah it's driven by the market yeah it's smart yeah true yeah well i mean you know and i get it with the labor market i mean you know we got to protect our greatest asset and that's our employees um so it's this this is some tough numbers but obviously we've got we got work to do we really do um uh so um okay so um anything else you want from us with the general fund itself or are we uh no not no not me well yeah i think that's enough yeah yeah and that's that's that's depressing so we got work to do so okay all right i'll let you continue okay uh the next fund is the uh stadium fund and just a couple highlights on the stadium fund uh miscellaneous revenue decreased by 25 000 uh and that's just a an estimated reduction in interest earnings uh to be conservative on that because i'm not sure what the market what the markets are going to market's going to do what the feds are going to do moving forward uh also revenue had an increase in transfer in from the general fund of 200 000 and that is due to we've we increased the contribution to the uh stadium fund for insurance and our insurance costs i mentioned have gone up uh they're estimated to go up uh 11 11 this year maybe more we're still waiting to get that final number but uh as an example uh you know for property insurance this this fund is really the best example uh stadium fund when i first got here the budget for insurance was 200 000 now it's 800 000 so that's a that's a very good example of of what insurance is and that goes across the city but it really stands out in this fund because uh general fund pays this you know so and if it continues to increase in the general funds contribution will continue to increase too you know so uh but that's where it's 650 but in future years uh contribution that was that was 250 uh six years ago uh and you know and it may continue to climb if if if the insurance uh you know continues to climb well and that's you know a good point too in terms of if there's any sort of reform and it doesn't and it decreases would be a you know positive impact on the city moving forward so yes yeah right on the expenses uh operating expenses uh decreased twenty one thousand dollars due to a a d uh a schedule for uh the insurance we we had an insurance uh we our insurance estimate in 2025 in the stadium fund was was overstated we from our consultant we get a report uh uh that shows the the the every asset and the insured amount for every asset and we and we had a report last year that was a year a year a year a year or slightly over a year old and and the report update we got for last year was was after our our tentative budget so we uh we we looked at it and we found we found a couple of funds that were uh that were that changed quite a bit over that period so to correct that we are we're going to do a we're going to bring a budget amendment to the commission sometime this year to to uh to adjust 25 to what it should have been basically the biggest change was stadium fund got overcharged about 115 000 last year and the water service fund got undercharged about the same amount so we're going to we're going to do a ba to true that up and we have a in 26 before we have a good number but but we we do want to uh we do want to make sure we make that adjustment 25 to be consistent so i want to mention that just could you clarify what that what you just said yeah well we get we receive uh we will receive uh for our property insurance we have a value for each asset and included in that it it says how much the insured amount is for each asset and and we uh last year's budget was based on the one that was that those values were a year and a half old and and and the information we received from our consultant was was after our tentative budget and our final numbers and so we went with what we had that's all we had to use we and we and we used those values and extrapolated out the numbers but there were a few departments that the assets the insured amounts changed quite a bit so we're just trying we're just wanting to true that up for 2025. 2026 we think is fine we've got that those those numbers for 2025 we uh we want to true up to what and the main reason is the stadium fund was again charged 116 000 more with that with that with that added information so we wanted to true that up because that does impact the general fund any is that good on stadium or do you have anything else for a stadium fund uh that's oh yeah yeah for that yeah yeah um so any questions on stadium you want to go to the next slide real quick yeah yeah uh oh sorry okay sorry i just wanted to mention briefly uh so you know stadium fund is is just normal operating cost you know with the pdc and the stadium uh we show at the bottom of the page uh for the capital in 2026 we we there's a reserve line there and i want to just point out that that reserve line that that's per our agreement and uh and uh the uh the uh every year there's license there's revenue that the blue jays receive uh for ticket ticket sales and stuff like that there's a couple different revenue streams and those those are we put into we set aside as a reserve for for uh for future capital needs in in the stadium that might take place so so we track that and so that reserve uh there's two or three hundred thousand set aside every year in that reserve depending on the year but we do we we track that and we and so as the facility gets older it's going to need to be repaired and we've only had a couple of expenses so far out of that fund but but over time the need will be there uh but that's that's kind of high level you know as i mentioned uh the uh the property taxes in the the biggest expenditures in here of operating standpoint is pay debt service in the bonds and that's paid for by the state and the and the club that was mentioned earlier we're just a pass through uh for those bonds and then we've got property property taxes that are paid uh most of it most of it's paid by the club we we pay about 40 000 they pay the rest based on the agreement and then we pay the insurance and that's that's really what the primary components of this fund that includes my comments on the stadium fund if you have any questions any questions on stadium fund just a quick what's uh included in that miscellaneous revenue line i believe you check that gene real quick um interest and then we have let's see and i'm not sure what the this is actually miscellaneous revenue other miscellaneous revenue let me i'm gonna have to get back come back to that and um sure be the follow-up because it's not the account name's not very descriptive no that's that's fine yeah thank you i i can't i do know that what about 1.3 of that 1.6 million is the the blue jays payment to us to make the debt service payment that's yeah yeah i was wondering that's what that was really where my question was because i yeah yeah i get that now okay it just washes it through to the expenditure side exactly we we make two payments and they're about 675 each year each every six months and and that's the account that flows through that was really my question so we're good yeah thanks thanks any other questions on this um and jennifer somebody's tracking the follow-up stuff right yes absolutely okay good um okay um and and i did want to give an opportunity because i forgot to go back to vice mayor on the general fund do you want to still do your question i don't want to take us back but if it was a burning question i just didn't want to i'm fine i'd rather move on okay all right sounds good i just want to make sure because you know everybody's some things are more passionate than others okay so let's keep going okay this is the impact fee fund uh we have a increased miscellaneous revenue of 500 000 that's just a projected increase in interest earnings uh in 26 and we've got an operating expense increase of 15 500 for uh the beltries ada improvement project in 2026 the capital expenses decreased in 26 due to uh we had 180 000 in 2025 for the douglas project that was budgeted in 25 but not in 26 and also we had a we had a decrease of 30 000 in the pedestrian safety crosswalk project in 26 as compared to 25 and then we have an increase in the of 80 000 in the law enforcement public safety mitigation project project and that's one of the trees talked about earlier that's our impact fee project and that's and that's the one she discussed a little bit earlier so that's that's kind of the the net impact in the capital and for our assumptions we've got uh basically uh you know the s the revenues are just are based on uh estimates of development and uh some of these fees get uh more revenues another and we'll see that in a few slides later but that's how they're estimated and uh we'll go to the next slide so uh this just shows the estimate rate we have four impact fees we have an impact fee for multimodal an impact fee for parkland uh and then we have a fire and a law enforcement impact fee so there's four of them and uh they're combined here and the next few slides we'll just we'll walk through each of those so you can see the activity in each of those four different funds the first is the uh multimodal impact fee and uh in 2026 we have uh the safety crossing improvements uh for various locations project of 30 000 which was a a decrease from prior years you can see in that in that long range plan um and uh i know there's some some discussion moving forward about that about that fee and if that fee will change but uh these are estimates based on the current fee level and the next is the uh the parkland impact fee and this has a little more activity this has a uh a projected fund balance of about 557 000 at the end of 26 uh that that money is not uh assigned anything right now uh so but that's uh there's no specific project assigned to that right now but that's that's what's uh uh in that fund currently and the next is a fire impact fee uh we don't have any expenditures projected at this time uh this fee uh we spent some some dollars out of this for the eoc and the eoc was built we took funds out of this that was a capital project which impact fees have to be for capital as we talked about earlier and we did use uh a few hundred thousand dollars then and that it now it's building up uh some dollars now to use for some some future project but we did spend some of this a few years back on the eoc and the law enforcement impact fee this is the one that we talked about earlier when uh when theresa was presenting uh uh the safety mitigation project we've got uh uh we've got eighty thousand dollars budgeted in 2026 for that project for the uh uh the barriers uh that was discussed earlier and and one thing about these fees is you you know you these fees are collected and you do want to spend these fees yeah you know they you they uh these fees ideally are you know are spent in a reasonable time frame you know another and that's one of the reasons we're looking at this law enforcement because this law enforcement of 80 thousands has been building up for a number of years so we want to find a project to spend the dollars on so we want to point that out are there are there any questions on any of the impact fees funds anybody okay let's keep going i figure we'll take a break around three quick break so just so everybody okay okay then i'll just take a little step out so okay okay okay public art fund uh you know on this one here the uh we've got a decrease of 45 000 and that is we the last couple years we have had been transferring money from the general fund to to fund this to put dollars in this fund for a few years uh the fund was not collecting any revenue and so we the general fund made contributions two years in a row this year uh we we had a a development pay this year about thirty seven thousand dollars it was j hotel the j hotel uh you know paid in 37 the the developers can either pay in pay into this program or do the art themselves they have that option and this one did did use the program and we received 37 000 so we're not we're not recommending any contribution and we're uh that that should provide the the fund proper funding for 2026 so uh that that's that's kind of what we've got the change there and then we've also got a small change of three thousand dollars in the operating cost we did reduce the operating cost slightly lower than last year uh to make sure that the fund had a positive fund balance this fund we've been watching closely that we've had it a few years but we've uh we've not had a lot of developers paying to pay into the fund so far and uh it's a it's a it's a point five percent you know project cost is is what goes into the fund when they elect to do it and uh like i said we haven't we've only had a couple couple do it over the past few years and as you can see in 27 through 31 we've got 10 000 estimated uh next one yeah and 27 31 we've got 10 000 estimated expenses uh each year and and we'll continue we'll monitor this fund we do every year because you know we if if we don't have any developers paying to this or projects paying to this next year we may we maybe have to consider how we fund it next year so we just uh there's been conversations about looking at uh how the how the the fee is calculated and that there's a way to to incentivize developers more to pay into this but but but we continue to monitor it okay uh any questions on the art fund okay we're going to keep moving real real quickly just just to clarify less that this is about the budget not necessarily the balance of the funds so there's a reason why we don't see the 37 000 that the j hotel put in yeah this is showing this is showing uh 26 through 31 and and those funds came in in 25 that's that was reason why those those funds of 37 000 came in this year okay so this is where we see it actually then at the beginning balance under 2026 right that's right correct thank you correct yeah okay okay uh next is the building fund uh somehow we had miscellaneous forever decreased uh by ten thousand dollars and that's just an estimated reduction in interest or interest earnings uh personnel cost increased by 5.5 and that's due to the merit increase and also the health cost increase that we discussed the operating cost increased by 22 000 or four percent in 26 compared to prior year and that's due to uh additional training for the new for the epl software the munis epl software that was rolled out uh last year and uh the assumptions uh we we're assuming uh revenue increases to three percent in this fund we uh we do increase it in 28 a little bit and i'll explain that why when we get to the next slide uh and we've got uh on the salaries we've got our normal merit increase of 3.5 and our benefits of six percent and then operating is two percent in the outer years and for the overview uh the available fund balance is projected to be 1.8 million at the end of 26 uh and and that's getting uh that estimate is getting closer we we reduced the fees in this fund uh back in 21 because uh state the state came out with a regulation that said that they this fund ideally should not have more than four years expenditures average of four years expenditures for its fund balance and we and we've been higher than that and we and we've worked at drawing that down we do think we're getting uh and and that number for us is about 1.4 million roughly so we're still slightly over but we haven't been progress uh so uh we're estimating to be 1.8 million at the end of 26 um and we continue to monitor that uh closely um and uh and and and and basically at some point when we do get to when we get to that goal uh you know we'll have to we'll have to then you know uh watch and consider whether or not uh we do we reduce the fee by one third uh and we need to figure out whether or not uh you know it's gonna it's gonna be self-sufficient long term at current rates or whether it needs to be an adjustment but right now we're still in the mode of trying to draw down the fund balance to to that level so i just want to mention that building permits we continue to budget them uh about a million at 1.1 but they continue to come in slightly higher every year which is good but uh but it but it has made it more challenging to get that fund balance uh lower down to where the state would like to see it be are there any questions on the on the building fund anybody okay keep going uh the county gas tax uh i mentioned earlier gas tax revenues have are budgeted to be two and a half percent less than the 25 budget and that's mainly due to the fact that 25's revenues are coming to lower than budget uh they're about two to three percent less and that's why we we budgeted it lower next year uh and we've got them uh flat throughout throughout the six or seven the six year time frame too there's the county has the county is uh estimates you know no real growth in that with with the current the current revenue stream it's it's been that way for a number of years and uh and it's it's been a little bit challenging for uh i think all cities in the county really as far as having dollars to do to do what you need to do uh the uh the increase in operating cost is uh 13 000 or four percent in 2026 compared to 2025 and that's due mainly to uh annual it licensing fee uh increased by 35 000 for the uh the rmt pavement management conditioning assessment uh bpi switch uh that was a bpi to switch to an operational in 2026 and also an offset to that was we decreased by 25 000 the city sidewalk and maintenance program as funding is not available to to fund anywhere near the prior couple years 125 000. additionally uh the funding for future years on the project are being reduced by uh 30 000 in 2027 and 5 000 in 2028 through 31 and that's just anticipated that's mainly just due to there's no revenue growth and trying to make sure that that we have a positive fund balance we're adjusting that the expenditures down uh the decrease in capital costs are 18.5 percent or 50 000 in 26 compared to last year and that's due to lower gas revenues collected uh and also the fact that we moved 50 000 we did move 50 000 of pavement management project uh from the gas tax fund to the penny fund in this year so we will be the penny fund will show that too that uh we moved 50 000 more in in penny fund in 26 in future years and we do the same amount here to to assist this fund a little bit with having more dollars for sidewalk maintenance that's why we did it yeah working with with uh sue barlett and her team uh on the assumptions you can see we have our two percent uh reduction and then we're we're we're slight you know 0.2 almost flat you know every year after that uh then we've got miscellaneous revenue and then expenditures are at three percent uh cost increase every year and the available fund balance at the end of 26 is estimated to be 134 000 uh and uh it's it's it you know that that's 39 of the operating budget and that's and that's that's above the target for that year of 15 which is good but as i mentioned the revenues are flat and it's uh and and and the challenging thing is for the sidewalk program just that we're we're we've reduced the expenditures there just because of uh you know the the funding available so uh you know hopefully hopefully something will happen at the county level uh or the state level where there's more funding for gas for gas tax but uh but that's you know that's been challenging you know for a number of years here okay questions on gas tax fund okay okay the penny fund uh paying for pinellas uh other taxes the penny surtax revenues which is our penny for pinellas uh are increasing we're estimated by two percent uh two percent year over year uh compared to the budget um the miscellaneous revenues are decreased by 250 000 or a 41 decrease uh compared to the the current year and that's that's due to we we have a uh we have the uh donation for the highlander aquatic complex the donor and their donation was uh 500 000 in 25 and it's 250 000 in 26. so it's a million dollar donation over three years and and the last year is uh 26 but it but it drops from 500 to 250 in between those two years and that's for the theory that's for the therapy pool uh at the aquatic complex uh the debt proceeds are increased uh by 4.6 million in 26 compared to last current year um and uh and we move financing for the and that's moving financing for the highlander aquatic complex to the 26 budget uh and that's and that's a 4.6 million dollar financing in penny and i mentioned earlier uh with the aquatic complex it'd be a 4.6 million dollar financing in the penny fund and then it's uh 7 million dollar financing in the general fund and the penny fund would be a three and a half year loan uh and the general fund would be a 10-year loan is what we're thinking now uh and the total project cost the total construction project cost of the aquatic complex is 18.8 million uh and again uh most of that's 10 10 millions in the penny and roughly 8 millions in the general fund for that in the proposed budget currently uh capital costs have increased by 9.1 million in fiscal year 26 uh compared to current year and that's many did a two large two projects we increased increase increase of 10.5 for the highlander aquatic complex in in 2026 we re-budgeted that again was uh from last year and then also we we had a decrease of 1.4 million in the gladys delgis preserve project which was budgeted in 25 but not in 26 uh budgeted last year and for penny assumptions we have uh this is consistent with last year and uh i've not i'm still waiting to get county information i've not seen anything yet on their assumptions but this was consistent with their assumptions last year and we've got the outer years at 2.9 roughly to three and then the last and penny penny 4 expires december 31st 2029 so we've only got really three months of uh of of that year in in the forecast um and then we mentioned that the highlander complex donation is uh 250 000 and 26 and that and that would after 26 that full donation would be received uh of one million dollars and then we have a trans we have the transfer in uh every year up until 30 for the city for the uh water wastewater funds portion of the city hall payment it's been there for a few years and and for the overview um the available fund balance at the at the end of 30 i want to just mention you know big picture if you go out to 2030 the yellow highlighted row we have available fund balance of 1.3 million so that that means that that's 1.3 million that's not not committed or obligated on any project it's just it's available for future future projects or needs uh the highlander aquatic complex is budgeted i mentioned a 10.5 million in this fund uh and and and the project is budgeted uh at including uh everything in the project including the slides uh uh but the lazy river is not in there because laser river was discussed you know back when but that's that is not in the current budget uh and there's uh there's a 50 000 increase in the annual budget for the payment manager i mentioned that that we did we did move 50 000 more into penny and out of gas tax fund in 26 and moving forward to take pressure off the gas tax fund um and uh and that those really the highlights and have to answer any questions okay any questions on the penny nobody okay we'll keep moving arpa okay arpa fund uh the miscellaneous revenues decreased by 65 000 in 26 compared to 25 and that's because we're uh we're spending that money and we're expecting the the interest earnings to go down quite a bit so we want to be conservative and not assume we're going to have much interest earnings that we may have more than that depending on what we do with with with what's left in the fund but we did reduce it for now to be conservative uh the operating budget for 26 is uh is 25 000 less than the uh 25 budget and that's due to uh 25 000 budgeted uh for the boat club selling center that's not budgeted in 26 we had a decrease the capital decreased by 481 000 in 26 compared to 25 and that was due to uh downtown pavers of 183 000 and parking sensors of 298 000 projects that were budgeted in 25 that are not budgeted in 26 and for the assumptions in in this fund uh they are they are uh yeah this really is just identifying which i think is important this is uh we received 18.3 million dollars of arpa funding and of that we uh 4.7 uh was flowed through the general fund for revenue recovery uh over the last three year time frame and three million uh flowed through the golf operations fund as part of the uh the golf course restoration project and all the rest is is resides in the arpa fund and also want to mention uh on this yes the overview slide that uh the uh the fund balance here at the end of 26 and it stays throughout because this is this is interest earnings on the arpa money this is this balance is really not part of the grant uh one thing nice about arpa was we were able to uh the interest earnings is for us to do what we want and it's uh which is great so we've we probably earned uh 800 000 or so to date on arpa funds so this this amount here we have we're showing is that 521 000 is basically uh you know interest earnings not part of the grant and can be spent on a future project or or uh whatever we would like to in the future so uh but it's not it's not attached to the grant at all so so questions on arpa what was that uh the ten thousand dollar revenue and under miscellaneous well i think that's just an interest revenue estimate yeah yeah just a small we think we're still gonna earn some interest revenue but we did reduce it a lot yeah and are we on a timeline to use up the rest of that money no there's no real timeline i mean uh no not really we could we could uh we could transfer it to another fund or we could uh you know spin it out of this fund it's really pretty flexible okay thank you yeah anybody other questions my my question is i mean technically if we don't have a place for that we could put the 521 000 in our general fund right to help the general fund we we could if we have if we if we decided you know i think we should think about that i really do we could yeah okay okay cra okay cra fund that the uh the for the revenues property taxes uh we're showing a decrease uh in revenue in 26 and uh and the reason for that is uh we did have av growth uh our estimate was 4.83 percent in our proposed budget but that was offset by the fact that the county's contribution in 2026 reduced our millage rate so they're they're uh the county what the county uh in in prior years paid us uh their tiff based on their millage rate and their millage rate uh was uh 4.6 and more than ours but now starting in 26 and future years until the cra sunsets they're paying our our millage rate of 4.1345 so we it's showing a slight reduction because of the fact that they're they're paying us uh a little less because of the millage calculation uh the debt proceeds uh in the 26 budget they're 300 000 more than prior year and that's just because we we we re-budgeted the parking garage project and the parking garage project is a large project in this fund and we and the project uh cost increased 300 000 so we uh we increased the proceeds by that same amount uh personnel cost of increased by 1.5 percent in in 26 compared to prior year and uh and that's due to uh wages wages wage increase and benefits and there was a personnel increase in the cr the personnel increase in the cra is lower than other funds due to uh a personnel change the retention bonus and also uh budgeted in 25 and not budgeted in 26 and the timing to merit increases for a new employee that was hired there uh the capital costs uh have a decrease of 225 000 in 26 due to an offset offsetting increases and decreases in several projects there was an increase of 300 000 for project management costs on the midtown parking garage that was added an increase of 500 000 for the existing city hall project in 2026 which is offset by a 600 000 decrease in the skinner boulevard project in 2026 and also a decrease in the downtown paver project of about 500 000 in 2026 compared to 25 so there's a few movements in the capital on this project and transfers out decreased by 31 000 in 26 compared to 25 and that's due to there's uh no transfer to the general fund for special events and downtown park maintenance of 28 400 uh in 2026 because that's no longer available an allowable cra expense so we're not we're not moving that to the general fund moving forward and there's also a reduction of 2600 in ldo contributions to the impact fee the ldo transfer of 5304 in 2026 that you see here will be the last transfer to the ldo fund the ldo the ldo incentive was was used to encourage residential development in the cra but it's but it sunsets this year and for the assumptions in cra uh we've got the 4.83 percent that we mentioned and then we've got four percent growth consistent with the general fund four percent growth estimate we do have new construction estimates in 2028 through 30 and those are those are estimates that we worked with the uh with bob on ironsmith on you know what uh that's gateway as an example of when that might be developed so and and we we move those around every year depending on on estimated time of development we do have some some larger new construction in some of those years estimates uh and and at the bottom it mentions again that the millage rate in 26 uh the county's paying the same as our millage 4.1345 and for the overview uh uh under the revenues in 26 we show 9.1 million in debt proceeds and that's for the parking garage uh and we're pretty much financing the entire parking garage you know the uh because of cash flow that's the plan right now anyway um and uh the cra funds projected to have a 431 000 available fund balance uh at the bottom in 2026 you can see in the the yellow highlight uh and the fund balance uh does grow a little bit in the outer years and it's about 1.2 million uh you know currently out in 2031 time frame um we also have the existing city hall adapted reuse project in 2026 at 500 000 that was mentioned uh but that that's the highlights of cra if you have any questions questions commissioner yeah there was a number for personnel what would that or who would that be carolyn carolyn yeah carolyn he works she works with bob ironsmith and just because she was newer and the timing of when we get our file from hr um for uh the the budget purposes um when you have a small fund with smaller personnel small numbers of personnel small changes really get magnified when you're looking at it carolyn waved at me so i've got that one figured out thank you carolyn yeah she's like i'm here don't cut me okay any other questions on cra yeah i mean this is another tight area where yeah we got a lot of maintenance stuff to deal with too but anyway so okay okay solid waste okay solid waste uh there's slight decrease in charge for services of uh just less than half a percent in 26 compared to 25. uh there's no there's no rate change uh you know uh scheduled here i mentioned earlier that we're in the middle of a rate study now and we'll be bringing that forward to your commission in in the months ahead uh hopefully get that completed so we're we're able to adjust rates uh mid-year on on april 1st of 2026. uh and also there there is a decrease here there's a small decrease uh of 25 000 in in the recycling revenues account compared to 25. there's a small reduction i guess that's been coming in lower the last couple years so that was reduced uh and miscellaneous income has decreased 30 000 in fiscal year 26 due to an estimated decrease in interest earnings uh debt proceeds has decreased 729 000 in 26 and that's due to the reduction in in in debt proceeds for for uh the need for solid waste vehicles we had three solid waste vehicles that we budgeted in 25 and only one in 26 so that's the reason for that reduction and on the expense side uh personal costs have increased 4.3 percent and that's due to the merit increase and the increase in benefits health benefits uh operating costs have increased by 3.3 or 187 000 187 000 in 26 and that's due mainly to uh 50 000 increase in the work management software in 26 that was mentioned i talked about a little bit earlier by sue bartlett and that's in 26 and not 25 and also an increase of 139 000 for disposal fees in 26 over the 25 amount uh and capital costs have decreased by 760 000 and that's that's due for the same as the the proceeds we purchased three vehicles last year and only one in in 26 for solid waste and for the assumptions solid waste uh as i mentioned no rate increase uh the rate studies underway uh salary is a 3.5 percent benefit six percent and operating is two percent and for the overview um the available fund balance is pretty tight here as you can see uh we're you know we uh we're just at fifty six hundred dollars you know uh slightly positive you know and you know part of that's no rate increase in 2026 that's part of that you know the fact that we're that tight but uh you know that rate study is underway and that will that will you know set the rates for future operating capital needs obviously but we'll have to we'll have to watch that fund closely this year as we you know uh as we you know and monitor it uh and the studies what i mentioned is also looking at efficiencies it's looking at reducing uh you know fleet vehicles and re and reducing uh the enclaves that have been talked about you know i think that they're they're working on that to figure out a program for that so there's a whole lot going into that study that will hopefully uh reduce cost and uh and make things more efficient as we recalculate those those rates mayor if i may that um that workshop's coming to you on august 5th that workshop regarding the enclaves is coming to you on august 5th okay great thank you are there any questions on other solid waste uh questions on solid waste question yeah commissioner walker yeah so just looking at 26 and the ending available net position um and are we aren't we cutting it a little bit close on the rate study in terms of where we're at uh our budget for 26 and where we think we're going to end up for 25. yeah uh but it is tight you know and you know we we do we do expect that we we will have a half a year of a rate increase it's not here but we do expect you will have an increase of some sort uh we don't know what that's going to be uh you know for half a year just wanted to mention that you know so you want to add to that we do know that the timing is is close but we have it timed out we wanted to make sure we brought you the efficiency recommendations implemented they won't all be implemented but even the august 5th workshop that we're going to talk about will have an impact on expenses it will have an impact on revenues too by offsetting expenses the budget is set as we are now it is set up so that we can continue continue services should the commission decide you know what they want to do but what we want to do in this is the unincorporated issue correct that's just the unincorporated but other efficiencies are also being put into place and so um yes it is timing wise it's it's close but uh we didn't think it was prudent to go ahead with the why the study without that additional data and information and raf talus who's doing the rate study is working closely with the efficiency study consultant as well so that we have good accurate estimates for you on those changes what the impact would be with and without those changes so you're you're comfortable that we can recover this based on the timeline that we've set to get this before the commission and get presumably a rate increase approved and that sort of thing right yes and raf tell us we've worked with them on the timeline too to make sure that we present it to you so that we could have it implemented in april and commissioner to tag on to what sue mentioned again the timing was kind of predicated on the lac efficiency recommendations and then that implementation and now with this uh workshop coming to you on august 5th there's a lot of things that have a ripple effect on the rates it's if we're going to consider those unincorporated areas if that depending on the commission's consensus direction but if that were to be adjusted then there are adjustments to our routes there are adjustments to the staffing there are adjustments to the amount of equipment all those things have a have an effect on the rates so we didn't want to go set a rate and then have an efficiency study that then indicated that we could have maybe not had had such a large increase if we incorporated some of these other elements okay yeah so it's where we're at and we have levers we can pull to adjust and recover correct okay thank you any other questions okay let's keep going okay uh water wastewater fund uh some uh license and permits fees have decreased 70 000 compared to 25 and that's just an estimated reduction in water sewer impact fees uh those vary a lot year to year uh intergovernmental revenues have decreased by 582 000 in 26 and that's due to a decrease in budgeted revenue for uh fema hazard mitigation grant for elicitations 20 and 32 of 1.5 million and 25 and 905 000 in 26 um charges for services have increased by three million dollars in 26 compared to 25 uh and that's the increased unit charge revenues uh for the the rate increase of 15 percent uh in the fund and that's uh the water use fees and the reclaim water fees uh and uh and that's per that's in accordance with with the uh with the commission's ordinance 2504 that was approved on june 5th 2025 which set the 15 increase in the in the rates um debt proceeds uh increased by 20 million in fiscal year 26 and that includes that's uh that's a uh an srf loan of 5 million dollars for the uh what for the wastewater electrical upgrade project that was approved yesterday that's five million dollars uh of of uh funding from that source and then it's also 15 million 15 million dollar bank loan projected in 2026 uh and that and that's consistent with with the with the with the rate analysis that was presented by by the consultant and the city that they anticipate we'd need about a 15 million dollar loan in 2026 to fund the waste the water wastewater projects uh you know working with clay and uh and uh and uh and and his team at you know we we've got a bank loan budgeted and we we would do a bank loan probably a 19 and a half year bank loan uh if if if we need to but we're also looking in to see if some of these projects can be can be if we can add to the the srf uh loan program and put some of these wastewater projects on that and and and get a few more wastewater loans uh rather than getting the bank loan uh so what we'll do we'll do either one the srf interest rates a little better so we're going to check into that first but but uh whatever whatever we can't get an srf loan is moving forward we'll we'll get a bank loan for that difference to move the projects forward and um for the expense and on the expense side personnel costs have uh have actually decreased by a little bit uh uh in 2026 compared to 25 and that was due to a few things a fifty thousand a fifty six thousand dollar decrease in 26 uh for two positions that change during 25 that will cost that are uh cost less in fiscal year 26 because they've been reclassed and things also the budget for the career laddering last year excuse me the budget for the career laddering this year that was that was rolled out last year has been reduced uh with a more realistic estimate of who is eligible to move up in the ladder program last year it was factored that everyone would receive the get the laddering program but now they've they've done more refining and determine who they think really will so it reduced uh that dollar amount estimated or budgeted uh operating costs have increased by 99 000 or uh one percent in 26 over 25 and and the larger changes in the operating category were uh admin fee uh admin fee uh admin fee was increased by 200 221 000 reclaimed water distribution was 75 000 and they were offset by a 410 000 decrease in the wastewater admin hardening and innovation projects and for the uh capital capital had an increase of two million dollars and that was due primarily to uh a seven million dollar increase in the wastewater treatment projects including uh five million rebudgeted for the electrical upgrade project uh uh and uh in 26 and a 1.2 million dollar increase in the raw was filter pump were offset by a 2.4 million dollar decrease in the wastewater collections lift station projects 32 and number eight and a 2.6 million dollar decrease in the water main projects at virginia and ranchwood drive that were budgeted in 25 and not in 26. the capital projects do move around obviously a little bit every year there's fluctuations with new projects and and some being completed uh other expenses increased by 3.3 million due to the an fdot project the the fdot project for the utility relocation at curlew uh that which is due that's an agreement we have with fdot and we'll be making that payment to them in uh i think october 1st so that's uh that's budgeted in next year to uh to pay them for that project for the assumptions in the water wastewater fund the 15 percent uh increase in rates uh in 26th and then we've got uh uh the the uh in 26 to 28 then we've got the uh after that three percent then expenditures are uh 3.5 for salaries uh benefits are six operating two percent and then we mentioned that the wastewater fund uh makes the contribution to the penny fund every year for uh a portion of the city hall uh cost uh financing and for the overview uh the available net position uh at the end of 2026 at the bottom is uh is at 57 percent uh and that's above the 25 percent is the goal in this fund uh and uh also want to mention that we i mentioned we have the the 15 million dollar debt service in 26 i mentioned that earlier but also want to point out that in this plan this five-year plan we also have as a placeholder another 15 million dollar loan in 2020 in 2029 if you look at 2029 uh the fourth line down from the top uh there's a 15 million dollar number and that's a debt proceed number we've that's a placeholder that you know that that's assuming that all these projects are done at that time we will we will not issue financing until it's needed obviously but we do have a placeholder there and that's a bank that's projected to be a bank loan now and the same that'd be a bank loan uh probably a 19 and a half year loan uh you know uh estimated now as i mentioned if if we're if we're able to get some of these projects under the srf program we will and that would reduce the need for a bank loan but we're we want to be conservative yes and assume a bank loan for now because a bank loan bank loan uh rate is about 4.2 percent and the rate for the uh the srs more like one percent you know so to compare um are there any questions on the water wastewater fund questions water wastewater okay keep going see stormwater uh the stormwater fund the intergovernmental revenue increase by uh 4.2 million in revenue in 26 over 25 and that's for the the usda emergency watershed protection uh grant uh for the gabions of 3.2 million and the ditch maintenance of 1.5 million and uh that that's what makes up that amount the charges for services revenue increased uh by 1.3 million in 26 over 25 and that's and that's due to the rate change that the rate change we talked about earlier uh for the stormwater fund based on the rate study that was done last year for the expenses personnel cost increased uh by about 9.3 percent in 26 over 25 and that is due to the the merit increase of 3.5 and also obviously the health increase and also there were reclassifications in 25 for um the environmental program coordinator and a position and another position another position on top of that was filled at a higher rate higher than budgeted amount in 2025 so there are a couple of uh items in there that made uh may 26 go up more than what you more than normal four or five percent um operating cost increase is 2.4 million or 65 in 26 over 25 due to repair maintenance of repair maintenance of 2.4 million increase for the gabion project and that's offset by the usda ewp grant and and also 50 000 for the work management uh software that and that and that project is in a few different funds uh being allocated work management software the capital cost increase is 988 000 and and that and that's due to increased ditch maintenance of 1.2 million in 26 and that was offset by a decrease in the cctv van of 286 000 that was budgeted in 25 and not in 26 and for the assumptions in stormwater uh we have a rate increase uh per our our study of 29 percent and then 19 percent in 27 and then then it's zero because that that rate increase in ordinance was for three years uh and then uh salaries are 3.5 percent uh estimate and benefit six percent and operating two percent and for the overview uh the the available fund balance is about is 317 000 at the end of 26 uh you know take a little a little bit of time to build this fund up with the new rates established you know last year uh in in 2027 we will likely we right now have a placeholder uh in 2027 of uh of needing some financing and uh of two million dollars if in 2027 the third line down we've got uh two two million fifty thousand loan and we'll work we'll work with public works and we won't we won't issue financing and uh until needed obviously but but to but to bring all the projects forward that we haven't over the next three years we'd probably need about a two million dollar stormwater uh loan and that probably be a another bank loan 15 uh we put this in at 15 years i believe but it more than likely be a bank loan are there any questions on the stormwater fund questions okay see marina fund highlights uh the charges for services are decreased due to uh boat ramp revenue being reduced in 26 and the the assumption we have here and uh was that the boat ramp would be closed during all of 26 however we're we are going to revise that because with with recent information in talking to the city manager uh we're a couple things we're going to the plan is to move the boat ramp revenue and the boat ramp expenditures to the general fund and out of the marina fund uh and with what we would do is we would uh first we're probably we would move the revenue out uh revenue into the general fund and out of the marina fund and then we would we would move the the labor and time spent uh in the marina fund now to the general fund as well so that the general fund would receive the revenue and also the the staffing time that that's spent there you know to offset and uh the uh we probably we'll probably budget something for 2026 uh you know the boat ramp may be open at some point in 2026 or we'll have to work through that with laurie and and and and the city manager but we are the plan is to move the boat ramp activities out of the marina fund for the marina fund it's uh it's pretty much cost neutral when you when you look at the revenue they they were receiving prior to the storm and the expenses incurred with the boat ramp with the time spent by staff it was it was really was kind of like a wash so i don't think we'll have much of an impact on the marina fund but we we're we're planning on i'm moving that to the general fund moving forward um and um the um the miscellaneous revenue which includes uh slip renters and the dunedin fish company lease has decreased by 179 000 or 26 percent in 26 compared to 25 this includes this includes a 10 increase in boat slip renter in in 2026 we're assuming that we will raise rates by 10 percent october 1st of this year uh and uh that uh that's in our assumption in the long range plan uh and the revenues are lower because uh we we we have uh we have the boats coming back but we also we also are are there's an assumption that uh boats some most boats some boats will come back but but during construction we're going to have to have room to move boats so we're still looking at this revenue assumption but uh the the best estimate at the time was is some of the boats when they leave we will we will not we will not backfill them because we need some room we need some room when they do dock a and dock b to move boats around to be able to do construction so uh i think what we have here is a conservative number and and right now and i think it may be more based on the boats that are coming back but um but we're we're still looking at this number it may it may change a little bit for the tentative budget and uh debt proceeds have increased by 4 million in 26 compared to 25 and that's due to mainly the uh the line of credit debt proceeds to be issued uh that we talked about earlier for the uh the fema grants uh we've got the the bulkhead we've got the marina bulkhead project three point of three point four million that's actually lower now we know and we'll be revising that number uh dock a and b replacement design of 437 000 and the pedals is 218 000 so the the estimated yes and and these are based on the estimated needs uh you know and the budget you know for these projects if the projects go lower than you know we've estimated a certain line of credit if if the project costs are less obviously we'll draw less down we will not draw down any more loan than we need to obviously we'll just we'll do our best projection and we'll only draw down what we need uh you know as we have firm numbers for dock a and dot b and and all projects operating costs have decreased by 34 000 in 26 over 25 and that's due mainly to a decrease of 13 000 in repairs and maintenance in 26 compared to 25 and a small reduction in operating supplies in 2026 and capital costs have increased 3.6 million uh over 25 and that's uh due to the bulkhead dock a and b design of 500 000 uh and again want to mention the bulkhead project was approved last night so we'll be moving some of those costs to 25 now and and and not out of 26 uh to to make that be consistent for the assumptions in the marina fund we uh for uh miscellaneous revenue which is miscellaneous revenue is again slip rental income you can see there transient boats slip rentals interest revenue and and the dunny and fish company uh a 10 increase is is planned for for next year and then from and then a 7 increase from 27 to 31 and uh and that's uh that that was presented to the mac committee about a month ago uh and actually going to meet with them again next monday but they've uh they've the committee since you know has seen these numbers once but we'll be presenting again to them uh next monday but that's what we have in the assumptions right now and and again i want to mention this is better this is better than it was before the storm uh before the storm uh with with these projects you know those rate increases are more like 10 percent so they are they are they are a little a little better because fema fema is now paying for some of the projects but that's what we're we're estimating and costing out right now for the marina fund and for the overview uh it's got available fund balance at a target of 577 000 in 26 uh at i mentioned the the 10 increase and 7 increases to follow um and what i also want to point out we did we did uh we have our business interruption insurance that we've talked about before and and and and we did receive the funding for the business interruption insurance about this last week we received 500 000 from our insurance company and and and and and and that's the max they'll give you 500 000 per occurrence we received that and we've we've uh included in the marina fund in 2025 uh 250 000 of that amount as revenue to replenish the marina fund and we've also when we get to the golf fund we've done the same thing in the golf fund we've applied 250 000 to the golf fund and 250 to the marina fund is what we've done with those uh uh those insurance that the insurance uh so did you say 500 000 to golf club and 250 for marina no no i'm sorry uh fight we were we received 500 and we gave 250 to the golf club and 250 to the marina yeah we're in in the current year we thought that we thought it was fair to you know the the three the the biggest impacts were marina and the golf club certain links had a small impact uh but we thought uh we thought it made sense to just uh split it between the the the two enterprise funds yeah and for uh that concludes my comments and happy to answer any questions on the marina fund any questions on marina fund uh yeah commissioner walker somehow i knew uh docs a and b replacement um i recall that that wasn't projected to start until 2027 i'm just curious for that 500 000 in 26 what's that design of course yeah all right design yeah um yep those are all my questions okay anybody else so just why are we moving the boat ramp money to well the um so the boat ramp is used uh by the slip renters general fund i guess i should get to some question to some extent but it is used predominantly um before it closed down by the general public and so it makes more sense to put it in the general fund it was pretty much neutral in the general fund or in the um marina fund we thought that it was probably the right place to to have it in the general fund the marine advisory committee has has spoken a few times about restricting it to residents only and even in that case it would still be a general fund um um item okay commissioner guard our costs on the boat ramp associated with um the marina fund and now revenue is going someplace else is that what's going on no the the revenue and expenditures are in the marina fund right now okay but what we're recommending is that revenues and expenditures go over to the general fund so revenue expenditures go to the general fund so does that mean that the marina personnel and get involved with the boat ramp so it the extent of their involvement then would be considered in the general fund yes from the marina fund right okay got it thank you because their extent of their involvement could be bigger if we've got you know if we're due residents only there may be more oversight what okay okay um i guess we'll keep moving golf operations okay golf operations fund uh charge for services uh is the revenue for the golf course operations and this amount in 26 is about 12 000 more than 25 the reason is due to uh increases in members dues of 66 000 uh cart fees of 38 000 and public green fees uh 50 000 offset by 140 000 decrease in pro shop merchandise and member cart fee revenues with offsetting reduction in cost for merchandise as well so the net of that's 12 000 the merchandise is being decreased the cells merchandise are not are much less than projected in 25 so the cells are being reduced and the cost of goods sold are being reduced by the same amount so it really doesn't have a real impact on the fund but but uh uh because the expenditure is decreased on it it's it's in two for buying buying things for merchant to sell for merchandise um missing its revenue is decreased by five thousand uh that's just a estimate in interest income reduction the um personnel costs have decreased by two percent in 26 compared to 25 uh the the golf fund in 25 was the first year of its operations you know it was planning to open in november 1st and open a little later because of the storm but the the labor budget included part-time staffing and vod's and we had a few duplications in the 25 budget uh the 26 budget is less than 25 uh for that reason so we've we in 25 we've uh we've got those corrections made but that's that's the reason it's it's you're seeing that slight reduction it's just there was a couple that were in this in there in two different places um capital cost increase by 65 000 in 26 compared to 25 uh cip projects in 26 uh were are the locker room remodel design and the rain shelters that were talked about earlier and for the assumptions in the gulf um charge for services are uh increasing 6.2 percent and um and then two percent for the uh 28th more conservative 2031 and salaries of 3.5 percent merit and uh benefits six percent and operating two percent and for the overview uh the estimated fund balance at the end of uh 26 is uh 323 000. the fiscal year 25 estimate column includes uh as i mentioned the 25 estimate column includes 250 000 for the business interruption insurance that we just talked about uh half of that went to the golf course and half to the marina for the storm damage in fiscal year 27 uh we've got the project is the locker room remodel and uh and also in fiscal year 28 we have a placeholder project of 500 000 potentially for uh driving range improvements at the club and the golf revenue increase that uh in 2027 that was mentioned of 6.2 percent that that is due to the result of uh grandfathered rates coming to an end for members effective january 2027 so all members will be paying the full rates at that time because they've had discounted rates since we opened and that will that will change in january 2027 and that includes our general comments on the golf fund questions on the golf course anybody just one question so all this also includes paying back the city uh yes i mean uh yeah the the payments to the the city have what we uh when you say paying back the city do you mean a loan i'm not sure what you mean well whatever was it two and a half million that we fronted oh yeah yeah yeah i'm sorry yeah they've yeah they've got a two and a half million dollar loan bank loan and and they're making the payments on the bank loan yeah okay that's all okay commissioner looking at the uh the budget is a pro shop built into that i know you mentioned earlier i just missed it yes pro shops involved yeah included in that yes okay and then how about this is a rental income from the restaurant would be would that be shown on here you know what i'm gonna is i think blair's here oh sorry there he is come on down blair if you just weren't here you would have been okay thanks steve got the bright shirt on you couldn't be missed back there so you know close you can hear me with it i think there might be still an issue with your yeah i should be i should be on now okay okay so you might want to repeat the answer okay so uh there are no restaurant proceeds at the current time there's a uh they received a renovatement for the money they spent renovating the the clubhouse and uh so there's there's no contribution from them at that time it's just all the golf people right so those those renovations that that highland house did to uh the clubhouse belonged to the city of dunedin essentially the best way to describe is that if you turn it upside down and shake it everything that would fall out belongs to highland house and everything that sticks belongs to us which is all the apparatus the hoods the you know so on and so forth so they got the rent abatement abatement um in order to accommodate that renovation but there will be rent in the future i don't recall i will we will let you know as a follow-up thank you blair didn't mean to didn't mean to have you come all the way up here for that thank you well folks i enjoyed it and uh i will adjourn toward the back yeah thank you blair the paying back the city where does that go to when they're at their payments to pay back the city where does that fund go to the uh well the 2.5 million you mean or yeah yeah well the 2.5 million is is showing in debt service here and that that's just uh we just make uh semi-annual payments to the bank uh so from to what fund what fund does it go to what cross fund is it where's the payback go okay no no i mean we did the original arpa yes right and that that is a sunk cost in the golf course and then we took out an additional loan and they're paying that loan back oh okay so that's a straight loan gotcha okay all right fair enough okay good that's right so we contributed the arpa okay gotcha okay good anybody else on that are we good so we will keep on going okay this is our uh our first internal service fund the fleet fund uh charges for services are increased by 738 000 in 26 and that's due to an increase in the isf uh income for 460 000 for fleet replacements 377 000 for overhead maintenance and then uh 98 000 decrease for the estimate for fuel uh charges to departments the net of that was 738 misdance income increased by 132 000 in 2026 compared to last year and that's interest earning uh increase estimate for expenses personnel costs have increased by eight eight point three percent uh in 2026 compared to 25 and that's due to uh salary increase uh of the assistant director of public works uh was not budgeted in the fleet fund in 25 but it is at 40 percent in 26 so those allocations increase the labor in this fund also an increase in health costs in 2026 operating costs have decreased by 20 000 in 2026 budget uh this was due to a decrease of 123 000 in repairs and maintenance for roof replacement budgeted in 25 and not budgeted in 26 and approximately 100 000 increase in repairs maintenance costs uh in fuel cost in 26 compared to 25 capital costs have increased in 26 compared to 25 due to an increase in the fleet replacements in 26 they are 1.1 million dollars compared to the 25 1.1 million more than the 25 amount there's 995 000 increase in vehicles for streets including a bucket truck for 250 000 a clam truck for 305 000 and a caterpillar loader for another 205 000 and for the assumptions for fleet just one percent increase in charge for services and then salaries to 3.5 uh and benefits 6 and then operating expenses too and the available fund net position is projected to be 9 million dollars in 2026 and this is for the accumulation of funds that that would be used towards replacing city vehicles in the fleet replacement plan most of that fund balance in 2026 in 2026 in the revenues it shows a transfer uh in the revenues under 26 you'll see the 5 million dollars and that's showing a transfer from the general fund to pay back that internal loan that that the general fund received this year for the storm damage and uh and then uh and you can see the fleet replacements are estimated out each year towards the bottom there's a very large fleet replacement projected in 2030 as you can see uh like 7.5 millions and that that's some of the more that's obviously some fire trucks and some of the more larger valued assets uh but uh and the fund again fund balance is about 9.2 million out in 2031 any questions on the fleet fund questions mr walker yeah i'm just curious uh looking at the fund balance as a percent of the operating budget what would happen if we were to phase the uh the repayment from the general fund the five million dollars um maybe spread that out over a few years years are we able to do that we could do it but but but the interest uh we'd have to pay interest on that amount during that time frame so uh you know i'm not you know i'm not sure you know it would help that much to do that uh you know my thought was is to pay it off and that way we become flexible again because if we have another storm you know next year i'm not gonna say this year but uh if we had another storm then that way we would have that ability to grab it you know five million or six million whatever we think we need to to uh to get us through the the early part of the storm you know and then and then figure out if we need if it's uh if we need more funding outside or not or whether we whether it's hopefully smaller storm we can handle internally you know with our reserves but but we could but but we were thinking it'd be better to pay it off and have that flexibility again but but but but you know uh we could do it but we still pay interest on it uh and that makes sense and remind me again what's the percentage that we're paying on that yeah it's uh 50 it's really right now it'd be about uh about four percent okay yeah and commissioner if i may in addition to the interest and comments that les made um doing so would then potentially impact uh the deferment of vehicles that were scheduled to be replaced based on the plan so we may have to push some vehicles out if if we do so if no i appreciate that i was just hypothetically wondering what if thank you yeah okay anybody else on that one um do we want to take five minutes before we start public input i think we should i think we should just get up and stretch huh we do but we're at a date time certain we're taking public input so i'm just going to take let's take four or five minutes and come back thank you open our meeting and uh we had a time certain to do citizen input so if there is anyone in the audience that wishes to come forward to provide information on our budget workshop this would be the time just name address and uh you're good name address in three minutes hi janette okay i'm loud enough though i think you all heard me do i need to okay i'm proud to be back in denean my name is jeanette donahue i live at 882 michelle circle um denean and i'm here to speak on behalf of katie de charme persisi who is our chair for the denean chamber of commerce and the denean chamber has worked with the city for decades to support our community economic development we believe a community is only as healthy as its quality of life and strong small business success the chamber was happy to work with the ddma in merging their organizations into ours one of the best things that the ddma did was produce mardi gras over the last 30 plus years it's a cultivated icon and adds to our denean quality of life however it's not financially sustainable as a private event we believe this event can be a family event that exists for decades to come and can follow the same footprint as old-fashioned christmas our community doesn't want to see this event come to an end but unfortunately the city is unwilling to take it on it likely won't happen we are happy to be a supportive role but we're asking the city to take the lead on this thank you thank you i didn't even have to bother setting my own three minute clock so there you go okay apparently there's someone supposed to be here in a minute okay well uh yeah well i mean is there anyone else in the audience that wishes to speak on any issue okay so well um we're going to continue our meeting and we'll we'll try to you know take some input if if and when they come okay so let's go ahead and continue our funds okay the next fund is the uh facility fund and uh charge for services if uh the irs allocation to the departments is three percent three percent or 109 000 less than 25 we had a decrease in charges for services by we we used some reserves in 2026 in the amount of 350 000 and we did not use that much in 25 so that took a little bit of the cost off the department so that that uh is that reduction personnel cost increased by 3.2 percent in fiscal year 26 compared to 25 and that's due to the merit increase and the health cost increase operating cost increased by 68 000 in fiscal year 26 and that was due mainly to an increase of 50 000 for various contractual services including custodial and pest control capital costs increase of 24 000 in 26 compared to 25 for uh for a fence replacement at public services in 26 that was not budgeted in 25 in the amount of 30 000 for the assumptions in uh facilities it's um charge for services are just what just based on the allocation of expenses and salaries of 3.5 benefit 6 percent and operating two percent and for the overview the facility fund available reserves are projected to be uh 33 or just over one million dollars at the end of uh 26 and then they stay 30 percent throughout the uh out to 2031 we do have capital projects in 26 we have the fence replacement at public services for 30 000 and improvement of operations and efficiency study uh at a cost of thirty thousand dollars in 2026 in this fund that covers the risk flood uh are there any questions no facility fund i'm sorry facility that was quick um any questions on that one cool uh on the risk fund uh i can go over this high level or we're going to be going over this in detail at the at the next workshop uh whatever you'd like because uh these numbers may change but i can i can do whatever you'd like no if you want to anybody okay we're just putting this one off to our next one where it'll be more detailed okay all right let's do that uh and then uh so we'll go to health benefits and health benefits really the same thing i mentioned before we have our health estimates and we'll be bringing this back at the next workshop to go over in detail so we we could i could go over it now but these numbers may be changing uh like i mentioned earlier so it's up to you okay i think same thing right move along okay all right then we are going to go ahead it services fund okay it services uh charged for services uh in 2026 uh allocations departments are 12 percent lower in 25 than 25 amounts and that's due to a reduction in capital costs in 26 compared to 25 uh also we had a decrease of 5 000 and that's just an estimate of interest earnings being lower in 26 the operating costs uh are 85 000 or 5.3 percent more than the 25 budget this is due to uh uh moving suspicious expenses to operating in 26 which are depreciated in 25 with offsetting reductions and computer replacements of 103 000 in 26 and a security camera contract reduced by 25 000 in 26 i wanted to mention that the it services department has is moving forward planning on changing their computer replacement uh program uh and how they do it they're they're planning on and and this and this reduced the costs in 26 as well they're planning on uh instead of instead of having a desktop and a laptop planning on moving forward having a uh a laptop and a docking station so uh with that over time there'll be a lot less devices uh and people will be replacing just a laptop rather than both computers so they're starting to factor that into their in their plans so that that has reduced the cost in 26 and should every year moving forward too so that that's a change this year on the capital costs uh they've decreased in 2026 by 125 000 and that's due to mainly to a decrease in network equipment costs of 30 000 and uh and unb uh the utility billing uh tyler software implementation costs decreased by 75 000 in 26 compared to 25 and for the assumptions in the it services fund uh salaries the 3.5 percent uh and benefits six percent and operating two percent and for the overview of the fund uh just just really the the the available fund balance at the end of 26 is 27 percent and it and it stays about that throughout the model we try to keep these funds at 25 percent or more and that concludes the comments on this fund if you have any questions any questions on it okay no okay no questions and i see we have our other citizen input people that just came in i hope that he brought some beer with him he's not paying attention okay um if anyone wishes to come forward to speak on any issue before the commission for the budget um and it looks like michael's coming forward so name and address in three minutes so how are you doing that's too short that's why i made sure i made it you know michael bryant uh 937 douglas avenue and hey guys what are you all doing it's a hot day out there it's nice for being in here so uh i'm i'm going to talk about a little bit as a ddma event you know and uh it's over time has not gotten affordable for them that way when i was a president and vice president uh we made money uh everybody was involved everybody was younger you know and it was it was a good event and it's really good for dunedin and uh exposure to the rest of the state that we have this event you know it puts dunedin uh on the map in people's minds uh we kept doing it and then as things after i got out of that uh they um decided to get a promoter to do the work that we all volunteers all of us members did and so it makes money but all the money goes to the promoter you know so uh kind of just makes sense that we have the probably the best in my opinion the best parks and rec and the best capability in the state and we have the the christmas parade it's kind of the same logistics um um you have new parks and rec director um from what i understand he's he loves challenges you know and that's probably why you all hired him because he's dynamic and you know the question was well why would someone leave this is just my opinion why would someone leave a job which kind of set up didn't have to really do a whole lot but he did a lot to get it where it is so maybe he was bored and wanted to challenge and i think the mardi gras is really no different than the christmas parade the highland games been the vice president of the highland games for years um it's just working and getting through it you know uh you already have the the blueprint so i'm for that i'm really for anything that parks and rec the director's willing to take on but i hope that we don't let an opportunity to keep dun eden in people's minds and that's a big thing with any kind of branding you try to keep yourself relevant and in the mind of people and it's a great event it's a healthy event the sheriff's department anytime there's a problem the sheriff's department is helping you all would know if there's a problem so um i don't know what else to say but i don't even know if that's the subject matter that you're all no no i i thought that's what you're coming but you can talk on anything with the budget so okay we know so budget i mean i would say the budget is probably gonna this wouldn't impact the budget negatively because before it's proven that it supported itself we took the money from the merchants the way it used to work all that money was spent on advertising the downtown merchants so i believe it should be positive and thank you and thanks for all you guys do for dunedin appreciate it okay anybody else wish to come forward and speak on an issue okay candy's gonna leave it to michael okay thank you all right we're gonna go back to personnel hello again mayor vice mayor and commissioners uh theresa smalling director of hr and risk management uh so what you're looking at uh is our staffing history that we uh track every year uh right now it's just up to fiscal year 20 25 pending final decisions on 26 um as you know we added uh 13.5 full-time positions we did a vod audit um which shows somewhat of a drop but mostly because some of the we're in a we're doing a program with recreation where if an employee works uh year-round 20 at least 20 hours per year uh then they get uh transferred to a part-time position it's an fte swap so they go from vod to part-time so that they um have the incentive of staying rather than leaving the city um any questions on our staffing history questions on staffing levels commissioner i noticed that our full-time positions are increasing at the same time that the what what is this called variable variable on demand is diminishing is there any reason why one is going up and the other is going down yes so the some of our variable on demand that are working of year-round mostly like our before and after school program and um they are being uh promoted if you will to part-time positions so the fte's in the blue are both regular full-time and part-time positions got it thank you anybody else good okay keep going moving to uh personnel requests uh we have uh reclasses uh that we're looking at this year um just going to go over them one by one uh the in the fire department we have a deputy chief of ems a fire marshal and a deputy chief of operations this is a request from the fire to fire rescue uh due to a restructure that they're doing the um the deputy chief of ems is currently the division chief of ems and so um in looking at the the the responsible added responsibilities and the demands of ems uh the the recommendation is to upgrade this position from a division chief to a deputy chief uh the position will also oversee their uh field training officers who will be the field ems supervisors on on their calls while they're out and then the um deputy chief that's a retitled the current uh title for that is deputy chief slash fire marshal so um back in 2020 the the fire chief was fire chief slash fire marshal it went from fire from that to fire chief and then a deputy chief slash fire marshal uh the demands of fire prevention with the demands of operations has made it really challenging for the deputy chief to continue in that role so the as part of the reorg uh they have rec requested that the deputy chief just become deputy chief of operations that would oversee the day-to-day operations of the dean fire rescue and then the um deputy fire marshal would be reclassified to the fire marshal position um thereby streamlining the chain of command in the fire prevention uh section and also allowing for uh you know better scope of leadership in that area so those are the three from fire and then the the golf um not golf sorry the public works facility services has requested a reclass of their uh lead crafts worker uh to a facilities services foreman so they are will they currently have a foreman but what they want to do is uh given the span of control to split uh to have two foremen in in uh facility services one would be oversee basically the continued to continuity of building operations handling uh all the issues with the various buildings including equipment inventory preventative maintenance programs and uh weekly employee schedules and then the field foreman would supervise daily staff activities including any service calls any safety related repairs every year uh risk management goes out with fire prevention and uh facilities and we inspect all of our buildings all of our um most of our assets and so if any repairs need to be done that's usually under the purview of facilities so those are the reclassifications that have been requested and are being recommended by the city manager yeah i would keep going we'll take questions at the end of this okay slide so the new position uh are the it's it the cart range assistance there requesting technical it's not for ftes it's for more positions so that could work out to be more ftes because that those positions are variable on demand uh so what's happening right now in the golf operations is uh you know you get hired people who are seasonal they're snowbirds the the time for them to go back up north so they have turnover of staff they want to be able to have enough people so that they can absorb when those people leave um and and they'll also be able to cross strain the more year-round golf uh attendance to help with the pro shop with um being out on the course um making sure that people are staying on pace as well as having starters so that's the uh only new position that's being uh recommended and there's no impact to the overall budget the budget will stay um at the same amount just adding more uh bodies if you will and then just as an fyi the ones that were not recommended the lieutenant rescue uh and the firefighter paramedics those were requested through the county the county did not approve them so we're not recommending them and then also the fire inspector and community risk reduction specialists are not being uh recommended this year okay questions i have one question um on the next slide the total impact it says one fte that's the four variable on demand which is the equivalent of one fte or am i what is that one under the net fte change for general that would be that's a good question we'll have to look at that i think that might have been a um because there's actually no additional yes there's no additional fte okay so that was you just threw that in just make sure you're paying attention yeah and um and this you don't have we don't have to discuss this today but it's my understanding that the reason we're declined from the county is because we do not do priority dispatch which which some communities do and um at some point i maybe that's a workshop item or something because i'd like us to understand you know who's doing it why they're doing it why we're not doing it how that's impacting what we're getting and potentially have a county representative here as well i i don't i don't know that we need to address it today because oh that that's the reason we got declined okay go ahead go ahead go ahead sure jeff parks fire chief because we applied for that position we it's not anything to do with that that was one of the reasons they're trying to use but that's not why we were uh not approved for that we just didn't meet the criteria at this time and the county is freezing all their uh their positions so or their added positions so okay so you're no you have pretty good intel at the county so but you know okay i i hear you i trust our chief so but uh yeah so we can talk about that but regardless mayor i think that you would um because you've asked me a couple times like to understand priority dispatch so we'll we'll put that on a workshop moving forward okay uh and uh let's see i don't have any other questions so we have commission direction uh you've got everything that we said so i guess i'll just give everybody an opportunity to give some final commentary uh and i will start with uh i guess commissioner walker well i uh i don't know i don't really have any direction except for you know what we've discussed and agreed upon um no i think uh i think i'm good okay commissioner thank you um this is a sobering budget uh from the standpoint of what we're facing is a uh ongoing operational necessity meaning a potential change in our uh levy um and i'm gonna just put out something right here this is not just what our citizens are facing alone if it were it would be a lot easier they're they're facing our water rates they're facing insurance rates they're facing all kinds of things their financial circumstances um are under stress as well and so i feel that it's our obligation to make sure that we hold the line in as many places as we can that's my thoughts thank you commissioner uh uh vice mayor i echo uh commissioner de gard's comments so thank you mr sandbergen no i clearly heard some things i wanted to hear and heard some things i wished i hadn't heard but uh at least we have direction uh one thing that i did pick up today that i'm i was very glad to hear was the settlement of that business interruption claim that's been going on for so long i really didn't think that was going to be covered and i think the way it was divided between the two was the right way to do it so that's very good news to hear that i'm good thank you mayor okay and i think commissioner walker you needed to add something yeah i just wanted to kind of add on to what commissioner de gard said um because they're very thoughtful that was a good comment um so anyway i i think one of the things that i'll i'm taking away from this is because yeah i mean what what you presented is a is a spot in time and essentially um it's it's not um it's very easy to get focused on the other numbers that are outside of 2026. um you know so basically i think the good news is and this is a just confirm this for me um there's a number of different levers we can port pull here that basically will can change the course and i uh i think that the the cost cutting uh yep we got to take every opportunity we can do to do that and um you know the revenue is what the revenue is but uh you know i i i think we've been presented with a as the city manager said a very transparent picture and that's good because now we've we've got the ability to make some decisions on how we do this without further impacting our residents and our community because the guard was absolutely correct in saying that you know we've raised rates in a number of different areas and um you know we uh we need to make that work so anyway thank you thanks for that comment tom um and uh a couple things for me um so uh we already talked about prior to priority dispatch um i would like to also sometime in one of our workshops you know you know again to be determined timing but i would love to have a presentation now that we've got mike as head of facilities um and i think you know there seems like he's been doing some really good stuff an overview of how we are protecting our facilities and um our assets um both in custodial and in facilities management so i just think that would be really helpful because i think there's you know we've had some real ups and downs in that um uh the other thing is i think that although after this uh this uh kind of depressing uh presentation i have no idea how we could possibly take on anything new i do think that we owe our partners uh the chamber if everybody's in agreement at least to review their proposal objectively and to just do a little bit of analysis so that you know at least when we give them a response we've we've actually looked at this and understood all the elements of it okay if everybody is everybody good with that or i i think that's a very logical response however i don't wish to do this in the context of one event this is uh we have a number of events in this community they've made a decision that of some of those events that they're now wanting to be a part of they don't want to be a part of this and so i don't think this is a conversation i want to have an isolation of a single event that's all that's another great comment um i i do think we need to take a holistic view of what we're taking on as the city of all the events that we're doing um because we do a lot the city does a lot and i think it's important that we understand um the impact of those events you know on what the city contribution to that is um you know i will say that you know my personal opinion and this is just my personal opinion is is that there are certain events here in dunedin that make us uniquely dunedin and there's you know wines the blues mardi gras you know those are events that we have become known for and i feel that there's there's there's a way to accomplish this um i think it's a partnership but i think first and foremost we have to level set we have to baseline and that means that we need to take a holistic view of what we're taking on and i totally after today's presentation taking on more is going to be a challenge so um but you know i i'm always of the opinion that um that where there's a will there's a way and i i i think we need to to look at that because i certainly don't want to make decisions where we're giving up things that the communities come to love and embrace and you know not give our full attention and thought and analysis to so those are my comments um so do you want to say something before i go to the other two commissioners or no i if i may wait for the other two commissioners and then i have some thoughts if that's okay right and i just want to add one thing to uh vice mayor thank you mayor uh an excellent conversation so far uh within that analysis and i don't know how you do this but in the objectivity also understand that if if we take this on there also might be other events that other organizations might say hey can you do this and so we need to be prepared if we do say yes to this while we might say no to another event and just so we're being fair with within the community and take a strong understanding that any money that we go toward this event given the conversations we've had today i would prefer go somewhere else so anyway thank you mr sandberg so if we sat down and discussed that is this something we would be able to do up here so we could really get a feel for what each other our thinking or with because in in in one-on-one you know i can give my opinion but i you know i'd really like to feel as as as a commission as a whole um how could we do that to make it we're obviously open to the public but we could all sort of work off of each other oh i i think staff would bring it back to us in a way that we can talk to each other i think it would have to be that kind of any sort of a go no go would be the city commission yeah but i but i before you speak i do want to say because i've had my meeting i had four chamber members come at me and i've gotten some emails and i just uh and and then you get today and but i was extremely clear with them we have a very tough budget period so it's a huge ask of us to take anything else on in the community um and and so i i think that um so i think there's some hard thought but i do think you know doing an appropriate analysis so we understand um you may leave some clarification on what commissioner degard means by you know looking at it all um but anyway go ahead thank you um and if i may jennifer i'm sorry just real quickly also include in your analysis a discussion with tony yeah oh yeah he absolutely needs absolutely yeah well i've had an idea in those terms um if i may mayor so um a holistic look at our special events is something that's going to take a period of time because it's a lot um tony's background as you know is in special events in and up to having been in charge of the super bowl in tampa i think that this would be a good project for him with new eyes to look at as far as our events you know the the events turn up positively and negatively in our citizen survey in our business survey in our employee survey so it really is a topic of discussion and one i think that we need to review and make recommendations to the city commission it also dovetails in with a decrease of levels of service as well because for our events and our signature events specifically we spend a lot of money on overtime and and so on and so forth so if i may if this is acceptable city commission and if it's not i'm sure you'll tell me um i i do feel the chamber needs to to to have us take the mardi gras uh proposal uh look at it amongst staff and look at a positive negative bottom line what that would mean to the to the city of dunedin um separately because it you know they need to know they need an answer and i know that that entire the president chamber she wanted to answer the next couple weeks and that's not going to happen i told her so um uh but it it i need a couple months with that to put before the city commission an objective review of that proposal in of itself because it is on the table and it is before the commission now um and then look at at all of those special events um the over and under for the city and even look at the economic impact of that particular event um not just the overtime that the city incurs but what it means to downtown and what it means and so on and so forth or downtown or throughout the city uh whatever that event is but i do feel that a comprehensive look is something that's going to take us a long time i'd rather it's a business plan initiative and that i can call the staff together who are subject matter experts and have tony lead that charge uh and come back to the city commission probably after at least after the new year and uh i'll just add that for me i had a lot of questions about their proposal and i think if anybody else did you know just give it over to jennifer like and i and i told him things like well we wouldn't have to pay insurance because we're self-insured well our self-insurance fund is taxpayers money it's a drinking event i i don't know that that's a realistic it's a liability right it's a liability we i i can't imagine taking that on to our fund in and of itself so i mean i think that anybody who's got any kind of commentary should give it over um to jennifer so you can do a very objective analysis i i like the idea is everybody good with that yes all right yeah okay willing to look at anything right okay um and then um you know my only other oh do you do anything good okay um you know my only other comment is and it's funny because when i was started running for mayor i thought to myself you know with the tightness of our capital projects the end of this penny uh some of the things that we were doing and and some of the cost increases we were facing and the labor demands we had oh heck i'm this is going to be real fun to be mayor during really some tough tough financial times and and i think we got it big time in the face today and um and and so but again i'll go back to just saying i'm where i've been for consistently for the last few years which is trying to live within our current millage and figuring out how we we really you know tighten our tighten our buckle and figure it out how we're going to get through it um with obviously the last resort be uh being any kind of uh uh change in in our our tax rate just because we we're putting a lot on our citizens and um so we'll we'll we'll go with that as a kind of a kickoff to the to the budget year so very good okay uh anything else uh city manager nothing but thank you very much for your for your time uh did you have one other this was uh my first yeah one of these um very impressive on everybody's part even though the news was difficult um and i want to thank everybody that contributed to putting it together thank you that's great and thank you because i think les and and jean great first time out of the box girl a very impressive job you had your figures really really very impressive uh how you kind of had everything on your fingertips um so and and thanks to the staff i know it's a long day and our city clerk deserted us at line after lunch she did but that was about but anyway hopefully i won't take it personal nicole um but anyway thanks for all the time and the effort and uh we'll we'll go from there thank you and meeting is adjourned