City Commission on 2026-05-04 6:00 PM - May 04, 2026

to Vice Mayor Avila-Vasquez for the Pledge of Allegiance. Everyone, please remove your caps and let's do it with the Pledge of Allegiance. Honor Guard, present arms to the United States of America and to the Republic for one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and... Right. Grace, Mark. Now, pizza for the invocation. Mr. Pizza, if you can please click on the button so I can turn on the microphone. That worked, huh? I can hear me. It's all good. Good evening, everybody. It's good to be here tonight. Especially on National Firefighters Recognition Day and the swearing in of our new Fire Chief, Stephen Cousins. What a beautiful time for us to be in the city of Deltona and with all of you here tonight. Have a little bit of a fireman's prayer before I do the actual invocation, if you would. Bow with me. Dear God, please protect our brave firefighters. Grant them the strength when they are weary wisdom when they make quick decisions and courage in the face of fear. Guide them through the smoke. Keep them safe and bring them home safely to their families. Amen. If you join with me, the invocation. Heavenly Father, we thank you for this day. We thank you for bringing us here tonight. For all the decisions that will be made here tonight, we ask you to set apart our commissioners, our vice mayor, our mayor, our city attorney, our city manager, and all staff. Set them apart, set an anointing on them to give them the insight and understanding they need and the wisdom to use it to do the things that will better fit our community for the city of Deltona and its people. Join with us now, almighty God, as we ask this all. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. I will turn it back over to the vice mayor after we do the swearing in of the fire chief. And if I can please have the fire chief come up to the first podium up here. If I can please have the color guard go back to the deputy chief of Cousins. If you could please put your hand over the Bible. Please repeat after me. I, Stephen Cousins, having been duly appointed as fire chief of the city of Deltona, do hereby solemnly swear and affirm that I will support, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States and the State of Florida from all enemies foreign and domestic that I will faithfully support the provisions of the Deltona City Charter and ordinance passed in accordance therewith that I will faithfully discharge the duties as fire chief the duties as fire chief of the city of Deltona, Florida of the city of Deltona, Florida and that I am duly qualified and that I am duly qualified to hold the office to hold the office of which I am about to enter and which I am about to enter so help me God so help me God congratulations, Chief Stephen Cousins. Would are you, Chief, like to say a few words? Please. I'm not a man of few words. I have lots of words if you ask any of the folks I work with. I like to talk a lot so, but I don't like to talk around center myself so what I want to talk about tonight for just a minute or two is the gratitude I have to the people I work with, right? The faith that the manager, staff has in me to give me this opportunity. It's extremely humbling. It's a huge responsibility and I don't take it lightly. We have a great foundation. We have great memberships here at the Deltona Fire Department and my only goal is to help build on that, build the people, give them the opportunities and lead the entire community with honor and trust and integrity and I just want to say thank you very much to everybody. I appreciate it very much. I want to have my wife and my kids come up and put the pin on. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you again. Thank you again and congratulations to our brand new chief. Just making it official. If I can please have the Vice Mayor Avila Vasquez come down here and we're going to ask the rest of the commission as well so we can recognize the veterans that she has requested for this commission meeting. Thank you, Mayor. So today I have two veterans that we would like to recognize for their service and I would like to call up Deputy Prado. This is one of our finest, also the fire department and our VSO. We consider them one of Deltona's finest. So Deputy Prado enlisted in the Florida Army National Guard in 2022 and proudly served as a combat medic for four years. In this capacity, Deputy Prado had completed three hurricane activation deployments delivering critical medical aid and humanitarian support to both soldiers and civilians across the state of Florida during times of severe crisis. Since joining the Sheriff's Office in October 2019, Deputy Prado has consistently demonstrated exceptional dedication, professionalism, and service to the community. As a resident of Deltona, Deputy Prado exemplifies a deep commitment to safeguarding and improving the very community in which he lives. His unwavering integrity, strong work, ethics, and continued service both in the military and as a deputy sheriff reflects greatly credit upon them and embody the highest ideals of the sheriff's office. I don't know why my voice is leaving me, but... Deputy Evan Prado, combat medic, Florida Army National Guard, in recognition of dedicated service, sacrifice, and commitment, deep gratitude extended for your contributions in defending and protecting our nation. We thank you for your service. Yeah, I want you to go thank the... The next veteran that I would like to call up is Wes Bro. Did I pronounce that right? It was close. How close? Okay. Born and raised in Deltona, Florida, Deputy Ruff answered the call to serve by enlisting in the United States Army in 2013. Over the course of six and a half years, he distinguished himself through hard work, discipline, and leadership, ultimately attaining the rank of corporal. During his time in the Army, Deputy Bro served as an airborne cavalry scout, an elite role requiring both physical and mental toughness, as well as a commitment to operating in some of the most demanding environments. His service took him across the globe with deployments to Iraq, Israel, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, and Czech Republic, where he played a vital role in supporting mission readiness and international operations. Following his military service, Deputy Bro continued his commitment to serving others by joining the Volusia Sheriff's Office in 2020. Since that time, he has carried forward the same values of integrity, dedication, and professionalism that defined his military career. Deputy Bro's journey reflects a deep and enduring commitment to service, both to his country and to his community. Today, we proudly recognize and thank him for his sacrifice, his service, and his continued dedication to protecting others. Certificate of recognition presented to Deputy Bro's, Corporal U.S. Army, in recognition of dedicated service, sacrifice, and commitment, deep gratitude extended for your contributions in defending and protecting our nation. We thank you for your service. All right. This time, we're going to start moving to item four, additions and deletions on the city agenda. There is a deletion, which is ordinance and public hearings. Section B has been pulled at the request of the developer. Vice Mayor, did you have another addition or deletion? Yes, I'm sorry, what did you pull? Ordinances and public hearings. Item B was pulled by the developer. I believe the whole commission received an email. That's Section 8, B as in boy. That is correct. The Hickory Lake Project. Correct. Okay, I would like to add a presentation that is requested by Florida Health Source whenever you can fit them into a commission meeting. And I also would like to request a proclamation for two of the local communities that so gratefully gave a donation of food and breakfast and lunch to the Veterans Stand Down event. One of them gave food for 300 people. The other one was for 200 people. And I can provide that to the administrator. One is Unidos. The other one is El Coqui Bakery. And I would also like to ask for a proclamation for Deltona Pride May 23rd. And I would like to get a consensus on all that. It's an addition. But it's not an addition to this commission meeting, to this meeting. Correct. It's a future. She's requesting for, that's just asking him. That's fine. You don't need consensus. I would like one. Okay. Please click on your mic. I'd like to request a presentation from the YMCA on their programs and their support to the community as well. City Manager, how do you want to do it? Do you want to do it on each individual request? No. If there's a consensus by majority, I think we'll just move forward on one vote. Okay. Thank you. To the administrators tomorrow. Got it. Okay. Is there a majority consensus? We have a majority consensus. All right. We're going to go ahead and move to presentations, awards, and reports. We're going to start with Section 5A as an alpha economic development update. That would be Mr. John Cox. Good evening, Mr. Mayor. Madam Vice Mayor, members of the commission, thank you for the opportunity to stand before you tonight as your economic developer, especially on this first night of National Small Business Week. I know you all know that the backbone of any community is small business, and we are grateful for the small businesses in Deltona. I just want to bring you up to speed very quickly on four items. One is with respect to our retail strategies project that we began October 1, so we're a little more than six months into it. It is on schedule and on target. This is a group that we have hired to represent us nationally with respect to retail recruitment for the city of Deltona. In addition to being in contact with developers, they attend ICSC and other trade organizations across the country making the name of Deltona known better than it was known previously, so we appreciate their work, and you'll be hearing a full report from them later on in this fiscal year. The second report has to do with Amazon. You know, about five years ago, our first Amazon facility came here. It was a million square feet. You may also know that they constructed a second million square feet, and it actually just opened this January. Good news about Amazon is that those two facilities together employ about 1,500 people, and another piece of good news about Amazon is about 50% of those employees are from the city of Deltona. The last time I reported to our city manager about the percentages of people who work there and who live in Deltona, it was about 39%, so we have seen growth there. I would also like to make you aware that on June the 4th, Amazon has invited us to their new facility that just opened, the one I mentioned a couple of minutes ago, so I'll let you know what time that will be, but they would like to greet our elected officials and take you on a tour of their facility if you are interested in attending. The third thing I'd like to mention is last year, along September or October, you approved a CRA grant program, and we're very glad that you did that. It gives us another tool to help small businesses that are in the CRA, and so we began talking to businesses, and we've talked to more than two dozen. Out of that, four or five indicated an interest, and out of those, one completed the application, actually did their project, completed the project, I've inspected it, and we will be writing them a check for $6,900, which was half of the project, and when we find out when that is, I would like to invite you all to be there that day to make that presentation, and because it's in the Madam Vice Mayor's district, I hope that you could be there that day. We'll try to work it out. It would be a wonderful thing for you to be able to be involved in that, and the last thing I would mention is with respect to Team Volusia, you know, they are our economic development partners, and they represent us across the country and around the world. Two projects that have been sourced for Deltona just in the last year, both came from conferences that we attended. One was an ICSC conference in Orlando, and there we had the opportunity to meet Project CORA, and that was probably in August in October or November. They signed a letter of intent with a facility here in Deltona, and they are working through the planning and zoning permitting process now. This would be a physical therapy, medical facility, probably eight to ten employees, so that's a win for the city of Deltona. It came from Team Volusia. We appreciate it very much, and the second is that we have a foreign direct investment project. That is, it's not in the United States. It's somewhere else in the world. It's related to the space industry, and this lead came from the Space Comm Convention a year ago in January. We renewed the connection this last January, and we've involved other partners in Volusia County to work with this company. They make medications that astronauts would take over long stays in space, and they are looking for a place in the states to manufacture those medications. Of course, we're hoping that it's going to be here. So those are the four things that I would mention to you tonight. As always, if you have any questions or would like to talk about economic development, please feel free to give me a call, and I thank you for your support. Ms. Vice Mayor. Yes. Thank you, John, for that nice speech, presentation of CRA. You said that only one person qualified or one person applied. No, four or five. It could have been as low as four, maybe as many as five. Actually said they were interested, received the application, and I worked with them on the process to get them all the way through. At some point in the process, they withdrew their application, except for the one who has been all the way through and whose check we'll be awarding in another week or so. Okay. Do we know any reason why they withdrew or did they just not say anything? So there are a number of reasons why. There was one project that had significant issues to the property and the building that had to be addressed as part of the grant process and they're not at the point where they could do that. And the others would be similar, you know, but varying. I know specifically the one that I just mentioned, that was the reason. Okay. The CRA grant, does that cover parking, paving parking lots inside the plazas? Yes. Because I, by recommendation and suggestion, I took a tour of one of our plazas on District 3. There's not much damage because I think that they paved that around three years ago, but there's a lot of traffic in and out of there. So it's a little, could use a little TLC. But I do know of one that really needs help. And if I can reach out or if you can reach out to it or we can talk about it later on. That'd be great. I'll be happy to. Yes. Thank you. Appreciate it. You're welcome. Commissioner Novick. Thank you, Mayor. Mr. Cox, can you speak a little bit to some of the tools that you've been provided in your economic toolbox to try and entice businesses to come into the city and talk a little bit about historically how that came about and some of the monies we've spent and the return on that? Well, excuse me, the city has, over time, had some different types of incentive policies. Probably the one that you're most familiar with is the Amazon project from five years ago, property that was paying a few thousand dollars a year in taxes, now paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes and has hundreds of jobs plus the capital investment. It had a five-year payback. It also had a $3 million cap. And once the cap was raised, there'd be no more tax financing or paying back. So they've been paying the full tax for more than a year. It was a win for the city of Deltona. If nothing else, the capital investment and putting our people to work. There are two funds that the city established a number of years ago for capital improvements and is my good friend John here, he could tell me what the second fund was for. But the city established those two $1 million funds and they have been used at least one time a number of years ago on what we would call a QRS or a retail establishment. I think it was Dunkin' Donuts on Howland. As they commenced on their property, they discovered there were some significant utility issues that they didn't want to bear the price alone. So from that fund, we, the city, actually wrote a check for say $26,000, maybe $28,000. They went 50-50 with Dunkin' Donuts to make that repair or that improvement possible. So there are a couple of examples of the tools that we have used. So several years ago when I was on the commission the last time, we were struggling as a city to be able to attract economic development, business creation within the city. And so at the time, the city manager directed then Jerry Mays to come up with a program or a series of programs to assist economic development and be competitive out there when we're vying for an Amazon or a Dunkin' Donuts, whatever it may be. So that process, those economic incentives programs were brought to the commission. They were vetted at a commission meeting and they were voted on. And the public had ample time to comment on those and that. And there's guardrails. There's things in place. Mr. Cox doesn't just go to a business and write a check to them. There's certain requirements. There's ongoing monitoring that has to be done in some cases where they get some money back if they create a certain amount of jobs within a certain period of time. And all of this was done in an effort to try and be competitive and attract business. And we've been fairly successful, I think, in attracting some of these bigger, cleaner industries to help offset the tax base, trying to get more commercial tax base to lessen some of the burden on our taxpayers. It becomes difficult for Team Volusia and for staff to be able to use these tools when misinformation is placed out there, as which was recently done. Commissioner Howington recently disseminated some misinformation regarding economic projects within the city. It was misleading and it undermines the public trust. These freelance actions result in inadequate representation at Team Volusia by misrepresenting the city's intentions, goals, and views and are disruptive to the economic development process. Therefore, Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that we remove Commissioner Howington as the representative to Team Volusia. You're welcome. All right. We have a motion and a second. Do we... Can we go for a vote, please? We may not need to vote. You can... So you want to resign? Is that what you want to do? From Team Volusia? Absolutely. Okay. Mayor, I request that we do it formally and have a vote, please. She's resigning. Hold on. Let's keep order up here. She's resigning, so we don't need a vote. Is that correct, Ms. and Madam Attorney? If she is officially resigning, do we need a vote? There is a motion and a second on the floor. So you would have to retract your motion. But she is resigning, so it would render your motion moot. Go ahead and call for the vote if you would like because there is a motion and a second on the floor. I'd just like to say that when I took that roll, nobody up here wanted it. I took it because I was the only person who even offered. Yeah. Commissioner Harry, you were the one that actually nominated me. You did. So thank you. I didn't want it to start with. Nobody up here wanted it. So I'm appreciative. Thank you. Would you two like to withdraw your motion or do you want to continue with your motion? You'd have to withdraw your second first. All right. Let's go. We're not going to play these games. Go ahead for a vote. Go ahead for a vote. Motion passes seven to zero. Is there anything else, Commissioner Novick? All right. Is there any other questions for Mr. Cox? All right. We're going to go ahead and move to presentations or warden reports to Section 5B. Vice Mayor, will you, Purvis and Gray, if they can please come forward. Mr. McKinney, please press, there you go. Mayor, Commission, good evening. This evening, we have Purvis Gray, the audit partner, Tim Westgate, and supervising manager, Lori Walker, that are going to discuss this evening's fiscal year 2425 audit. I first just want to thank them and staff for everything that they've been doing these past six months. John, try not to crash into anything here. So, good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to present. Just to reintroduce real quick, my name is Tim Westgate, audit partner with Purvis Gray. Lori Walker is the supervisor on the engagement. This is the final stage of the audit process for the September 30th, 2025. The audit reports were dated 430, April 30th, so we are right hot off the press. And the copies are just have, I understand, have just been distributed to you. The state, just some reminders of the financial audit. This is the printed copy when you so choose to, you know, print the whole copy out. The statements, the notes, management discussion and analysis, statistical section, other sections like that are the responsibility of management, are prepared by management. Our responsibility is to conduct an audit and to issue an opinion on that audit. We are pleased to say, jumping sort of to the finish line, we issued a clean opinion, an unmodified opinion. That is the highest level of assurance that you can have on a financial audit. The financial audit is the reporting requirements for your external reporting as reporting under generally accepted accounting policies that are issued by the GASB, that is the Government Accounting Standards Board. The requirements for your audit that you're meeting do fall under Florida statutes that require the audit, rules of the Florida Auditor General, as well as your granting agencies, your federal granting agencies, state granting agencies that require a single audit, that's part of this package as well, your lenders, secondary bond market, yellow book requirements, which are the government auditing standards issued by the OMB, Office of Management and Budget of the U.S., as well as a certain statute, statute 218-415, that is an investment compliance. The investment of public funds is it met in accordance with the statutes as well as Deltona policies. So all in all, you can see there are a lot of audit requirements that this meets. Pleased again to report the finish line is a clean opinion in all of that. So there are no noncompliance issues related to any of those specific audit pieces. The audit is also done and your reporting package is assembled for submission to the FGFOA, that's the Florida, I'm sorry, the GFOA, that's the Government Finance Officers Association. It's an international program that you submit to for the Certificate of Achievement and Excellence in Financial Reporting. Under that requirement, participation in the program, which is voluntary to do as opposed to that first batch you're required, this is a voluntary participation that you do showing that Deltona goes above and beyond the requirements of GAP, Generally Accepted Accounting Principles, for the spirit of transparency and additional disclosure. The package is submitted to the GFOA who reviews it. They subsequently distribute it out to academics, other parties, you know, other CPA firms who weren't part of your audit, public officials throughout the nation, nobody from Florida. If you're in Florida, you don't review Florida. So the September 30th, 2024, received that award. We anticipate that this reporting package will as well, that you've met all of those voluntary requirements. So commend the participation in that program and choosing to do that. As part of our audit, we do look at internal control related to financial reporting, as it would have an impact on our audit. We look at compliance with matters that noncompliance would be material to the financial statements. Pleased to report there are no material weaknesses reported in the package. So there are clean reports in that regard. That doesn't mean we don't come without recommendations through the audit process. And one of the letters that you received from us, there is a recommendation that we had related to the financial close and reporting process. As an example, and in our audit engagement plan, we plan to issue by March 31st of each year. That's one of the program requirements. You did get an extension for participation. However, the audit process didn't start until mid-March and wasn't issued until the end of April. So we have recommendations to streamline that process. We do recognize that you're about five weeks or more earlier than where you were in last year's close off. So improvements are being made. We also want to recognize the significant turnover in your finance department, which requires a lot of learning curve in there. You also did some geography changes in the adoption of several departments within the city. Fleet management, information technology, and the building department were all moved out into separate funds. And then solid waste and stormwater were governmental special revenue funds. They became business-type funds. So there was a lot of changing and shuffling in how you present the items in line with the budget that's adopted. So those were decisions made early in the year, just required a lot of homework for your team to accomplish that and report under the new standard. So we anticipate improvement in the new year. Related to that, we also had a recommendation to revisit the capital asset reporting model, which appears to us to be overly complex. It did take significant time for your team to final closeout, reconcile all the items, identify all the transfers, disposals, additions. And we think the process could be reviewed, probably opportunities for further improvement there that we think would also assist in your timeline, in your closeout of each year. A common area for lots of governments. Obviously, you have extensive assets throughout the city. So that's just the recommendation from us as well. So with that, that's sort of the highlight. The key recommendation that came from it, I do invite any questions that you have related to the audit. Well, I don't see anybody up yet, but a quick question. The funds that were removed from WastePro and Stormwater from government to business style, that means they're more of an enterprise fund now, more restricted to that specifically? Yes, yeah. Same thing, proprietary fund, inner fund, business type, mean the same thing, just different terms for the same. So they switch from the governmental reporting model to that business type enterprise fund with the view that the revenues collected over a period of time will cover the cost of those funds. So it's more restricted. So if we're doing stormwater, it's specifically for the stormwater. Got it. Understand. Commissioner Santiago. Thank you, Mayor. Yes, quick question. Number one, thank you very much for giving us that update. And I want to thank the finance director and the finance team for an amazing job with having no material weaknesses and, you know, with a new finance team, a new department, and all. That's just great news to hear. So first of all, I want to thank you. The other question I had was there was another, you had mentioned something about the related party disclosure. Can you kind of give us an update on that and overall? Because I think that it was something that you had a concern with. Questions that we ask through the audit process, it is a routine question that is always asked about through the audit process is whenever there are any key positions within a government, people would have an opportunity for influence. Not saying they are doing anything wrong, but just the opportunity for influence. So for example, if a commissioner owned a construction company and the commission elected to have that construction company do major projects within the city, there's a related party transaction that's occurring in there. So as part of our audit process, we inquire what related parties exist, what opportunities are there. So the city did elect to add a new disclosure related to a related party just as an awareness where you have a commissioner who has a key position with another local government. Okay. Thank you for the update. I know we also spoke and I did speak to the attorney as well. I know there that there could be a conflict with a commissioner when we submit our audit to the clerk's office. And where I'm going with this is there's a conflict that possibly may be a conflict. And I know when my first meeting with when I first started my first meeting, I know that there were issues, a conflict that came up by another commissioner, Commissioner Caldwell. I know you had an issue and wanted the ethics and wanted me to report an opinion done about my marriage with the Volusia County Councilman. So this is kind of, in my opinion, when I feel like there's a conflict with our financial disclosure, I think we need to have an opinion. And I would like to have our attorney take a look into that and make sure that there's no conflict of interest with having somebody look over and approve any auditing or financial that's sitting in this dais right now. So if you don't mind, I mean, I don't think it's a big deal. I think we want transparency, clarity. I think we have a responsibility and just asking if we approve our city attorney to move forward with just having an opinion from either the state agency or ethics. We would need a vote on that, correct? Because we had a vote for her as well. A vote or a consensus. But we would need that to be able to request an official opinion. Would you like to do a vote or a consensus request? I can make, I can do a motion. So I'd like to make a motion to have the city attorney get an opinion either from the ethics commission or our state attorney in regards to if it is a conflict of Commissioner Dori Howington just working on our financials. Okay. Is there a second? Vice Mayor, you turned on your mic. Yeah, I just, I have a question after whoever missed. Commissioner Novick. I'll second it for discussion. There's a second by Commissioner Novick. All right. Commissioner Howington, you had your mic on first and then I'll go to you. Ms. Madam Vice Mayor, did you want to turn on your microphone? There you go. So who are you asserting that we're submitting the financials to? Because you said you submitted it to the clerk. So how would that have anything to do with any sort of a conflict? Do we want, where's Mr. McKinney? I don't remember being in construction so I'm not sure how I have any dealings with the city of Deltona. There you go. From the, good evening, from the conversation with all the commissioners this afternoon that met with the auditors and I, I said that there were two items that got brought up during this audit engagement. Item number one, we had to do some confirmation of invoices with the clerk's office that was between my staff and initially Ms. Howington's staff and then in the responses we both got brought into it. So that was the related party on that instance. As this is a GASB 62 issue, I then brought that up during field work with Ms. Walker here and in bringing that to her attention, one of the other individuals that was on the engagement during field work said that, well, we just recently conducted, Purvis Gray recently conducted a review of the state child support item. But then that brought up item number two because we do have withholding of child support from employees' checks that get submitted through the clerk's office throughout the state process for payment to the other parent. So those were the two related party issues. There's nothing material. I could read the entire statement if you would like, Mayor. There's nothing material. It's just purely a disclosure of related parties. As a result of GASB 62, it does require the city to have policies and procedures that if something material does occur, then what is my responsibility to the city manager, the city attorney, and to the commission for disclosure? Nothing more, nothing said. If we were a constitutional comptroller office, there'd be a whole other litany of items. But the clerk here in Volusia County is not a comptroller. I know that, but just a reiteration, that is handled by the county government specifically. For clarity, can you just read that statement and then we'll let Commissioner Howington finish off and then we have Commissioner Novick, then Vice Mayor Avila Vasquez. Yes, sir. I remember the page number. It's note F, sir, on page 92 of this year's ACFER, Annual Comprehensive Financial Report. It's labeled Related Party Disclosure. A member of the City Commission also serves in a key position with another governmental entity with which the city may conduct business. This relationship may give rise to transactions between the city and the other governmental entity in the normal course of operations. During the fiscal year, no material transactions requiring disclosure occurred between the city and this governmental entity. Commissioner Howington, would you like to ask anything else? No, thank you for giving that explanation. Yes, ma'am. All right. Commissioner Novick and then Vice Mayor. I was just lit up from the second. I didn't have anything. I was just lit up from the second. Understood. Vice Mayor Avila Vasquez. Thank you, Mayor. I have a question. With this coming up, with this issue that just came up with a conflict of interest, does that mean that our applications, candidates' application, have to be reviewed for commissioners and mayors to find out that their background or their job doesn't conflict with the city's regulations, that their job doesn't have a problem with the city because most likely everyone up here works or does something that the city is involved with or we have to make decisions and vote up here. Does that mean that these applications, are we going to review these applications for commissioners as well to make sure that there's no conflict then running for the position and then they come up here? I'm just wondering because that's what it sounds like. No, that is not the logical next step. There may be conflicts that arise that are situational. The most salient example I think is the one the auditors gave which might be Commissioner Novick is a city commissioner and his wife has a construction company and they put in a bid for a city construction project. We would either he would request a conflict analysis, we would perform that analysis, make recommendation or recommend that it be sent to the Florida Commission on Ethics for an opinion. So there may be situations that arise that require conflict analysis and it can be something as simple as someone's a member of a non-profit board and then that non-profit is requesting a grant or donation. So does the commissioner have to recuse themselves? But it does not mean that the applications for commission would be subjected to that. Thank you. I was just curious about that. Thank you. Commissioner Caldwell. So if we're going to go down this avenue would that mean that anything that we share any other city that we share let's say purchasing power with that one of us commissioners is affiliated with would that be a conflict of interest or a family member or? So conflict analysis occurs often in the work of city commissioners and it is largely because we as a government do so much business and we do so many things. We, you know, obviously safety, roads, fire, we purchase things, we buy equipment, we have health insurance, so we have a lot of interactions with different entities and businesses. As a result of that, there may be conflicts that come up. The Florida statute has a very clear definition of conflict like family member conflict and they have a definition of all the different relations that are conflict. So a lot of times I'll get a call and someone will say my neighbor has a business that's going to bid. Is that a conflict? Well, if your neighbor is just your neighbor and not a relative, that relative conflict does not come into play. If your spouse is an employee of a Fortune 500 company and they're not a decision maker who's going to get a direct benefit from the city's use of the Blue Cross plan and they just work at Blue Cross selling health insurance and they're not our agent getting a commission, there may be no conflict. So conflict analyses are very situational specific and they have to do with each individual and their circumstances and there are levels of recommendation that come out of them. But they are specific and oftentimes if they are complex, such as I believe Commissioner Santiago referenced the one from her first meeting which we sent to the Florida Commission on Ethics and they provided a very detailed, helpful written opinion that extensively analyzed all of the potential conflicts and ran a number of scenarios. That has been a very helpful guiding document for us. But that would be a circumstance when we would recommend the Florida Commission on Ethics provide an opinion because the more complex it is, the more you want to make sure that you get it right because obviously as good stewards of the public trust you all take that, your oath seriously and you do a very good job. And so we do these analysis all the time. Sometimes they're public, sometimes they're not, often they're not. But if the request is for the Florida Commission on Ethics to provide an opinion, we would ask for either a consensus or a vote. So if it's something as simple as I'm on the Audubon Society, we're giving them a donation, do I have a conflict, can I vote? We would just say, no, you cannot vote. You are on the board of the Audubon Society. That's a simple one. The more complex ones we would recommend the Florida Commission on Ethics give an opinion on and for that we would ask for a consensus or a vote. I understand that part of it. I mean, I understand the need for a disclaimer. I just don't understand the avenue that we're heading down here because there seems to be several conflicts of interest between entities, other cities and stuff like that. Do we go down each one of those and request for an ethics opinion? Maybe I don't understand the question. Well, I think that there's other people that work for other cities up here on the dais and we do business with those cities. I'm assuming that we're doing a purchasing thing with Seminole County. Is that correct? And I don't want to get into specifics but I mean, are we going to go after ethics violations for everything? So are you talking about piggybacking contracts? Piggybacking contracts. Yeah. So piggybacking contracts, we would have to look at the specific circumstance but typically a piggyback contract is just a way for us to have a more easy procurement route because it was done properly by another government and instead of having to go put our staff through the whole rigmarole, we can say, well, this county did this or this city did this. We can utilize their procurement as long as it is a like for like. So for piggyback agreements, that is a procurement question, not as much a conflict analysis although, again, we could analyze it on a case-by-case basis but it is, I think, that is, I think, in a little bit of a different vein because it is related to purchasing. Thank you. Commissioner Howington. Thank you. How about 501c3s if we have people who are operating as officers for 501c3s and they're doing business with the city of Deltona? Would that be something that we should probably submit as well? 501c3 analysis are usually a little easier and we've done some 501c3 analysis and made recommendations and I believe, to my knowledge, at present, there are no existing conflicts with 501c3 officers. If you know of one, please bring it to my attention. I'm happy to talk about it and look at it. 501c3 analysis tend to be the easiest because they're pretty clean and clear in the statute and typically the interactions that governments have with them are, you know, we're funding them or we're giving them space, some sort of in-kind donation. So, if you felt like it was a conflict that needed a more detailed analysis, we could seek a consensus to send it to the Florida Commission on Ethics for an opinion but again, I'm not aware of any but please let us know. Oh, absolutely. And then, do we do any business with Seminole County at all? Do we ever buy anything, permits anything with Seminole County? No, ma'am. Excuse me. No, ma'am. We do not. We do utilize on frequent basis piggyback contracts that they've done as the city attorney stated but at no time do I have to discuss with any member on the dais that. And those piggybacks have actually been recommended by members of this dais during conversations here at the dais. Me, myself personally, I am not aware of that. I mean, I'm not saying during a vote that it might not come up but I've never been directed to look at any specific contract when we're going to procure something. Not in my tenure. It's been part of the conversation here on the dais. That's okay. We can go back and find the videos. Okay. Before we do a vote, I don't want to keep the auditors here. Is there any other questions pertaining to the audit and then we'll finish up the motion, the second, and then get any public comments on that before we vote? Any questions for the auditors? Okay. Seeing none, thank you guys for being here. Is there any, if there's anybody in the public that wants to make a comment before we vote on looking into a possible conflict of interest, just fill out a card and give it to the city clerk, please. All right. Can we please go ahead and go with the vote? The motion passes six to one. All right. We're going to go ahead and move to Deltona community events. None, Ms. Parker. Okay. We're going to go ahead and move to consent agenda items. Vice Mayor. Thank you, Mayor. Yes, I'd like to pull for questions 7F as in Frank, J as in Jack, and number 8, letter A as in Apple. We're not doing 8 yet. We're just doing consent agenda. So you want to do That's not consent agenda? F and J, correct? No. Number 8A is public hearing. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. No, you're good. F and J. All right. F and J. Is there anything else from the commission? All right. Go ahead, Commissioner Harrington. I'd like to pull C and D. And then also, let's see, might already be pulled. Yes. Okay. That's it. Thank you. All right. At this time, we'll go ahead and do public comment for the consent agenda. There's none? All right. At this time, I'll entertain a motion for Commissioner Novick. Go ahead. I make a motion to approve the consent agenda. Items A, B as in Boy, E as in Echo, G as in George, H as in Henry, I, Ida, K, King. There's a motion by Commissioner Novick, second by Commissioner Harriet. If we can please go for a vote. Motion passes seven to zero. At this time, we're going to start with letter C, which is Commissioner Howington. You pulled it. Vice Mayor, I know you pulled things first, but I, okay, thank you. Go ahead, Commissioner Howington. So what are the main changes? There wasn't a red line included in this, so I was just wondering what the specific changes were between the contracts and then what's been completed to date. Welcome, Ms. Wallace. Good evening. Commissioner Howington, what was changed on this is just an extension of time. We entered into an agreement with Mead and Hunt mid part of last year, and we just need a little bit more time in which to be compliant with the agreement itself. There is no additional funding, cost to the city. We just need the time to get this, to be compliant with the agreement. And this is extending out till 2027? Yes, March 31st, 2027. So has there been a delay? There's been a little bit of a delay, and it's just a matter of pulling all of the data together so that we can put together, our consultant can put together a full comprehensive submittal. We hopefully wouldn't have a lot of RFIs, requests for information. We tried to do a one and done and get this completed. Our plan is to try to expedite this with our consultant. We're behind, and we don't want to be behind, so they understand that the importance that we get this done as quickly as possible. So on page six, there's an itemized list of tasks. Which items have been completed thus far? They have completed, I believe, up to number seven. I think we have had two public outreach meetings. Okay, thank you. All right, this time I'll entertain a motion. Commissioner Harriet? I'll make a motion to approve item C. Commissioner Santiago? All right, there's a motion by Commissioner Harriet and a second by Commissioner Santiago. If we can please do a vote. Motion passes seven to zero. Commissioner Howington, we're going to go to consent agenda D, which is a request for approval of resolution number 2026-34 and task authorization between the city and the Quarantino group for phase one. It seems like we've been having an issue with Demandstar not getting responses recently. I'm not on the purchasing side, but you're absolutely correct in the two times that we advertised this, once we did them independently, Catalina and LCAM, which we have two separate grants with the Division of Emergency Management, then we bundled them together because we didn't get any responses at all. So we rebid them and bundled them together thinking the economy is scales. They're not too far apart. The timing is, we still got no bids. So we went back to the state and we asked them, could we use or consider use any of our continuing service vendors who do traffic engineering? And they said yes. So that was the course we went. We went to all of the firms that we have on call, which there's four of them. One no longer does work in the Central Florida area. They strictly work in Tallahassee now. And the Quarantino group was the one that we were able to get them to the amount that our contract with DEM is in the amount fall within that guidelines and hopefully get this project moving with the design, engineering, and permitting. Okay, so they came in essentially with a bid with them? With a little bit of negotiation, yes. There were a few things we thought were a little bit on the high side and we clarified the project scope for them. Okay, thank you. Commissioner Harriet. I'd like to make a motion to approve resolution number 2026-34. Okay, we got a motion by Commissioner Harriet, Commissioner Santiago. Second. Motion by Commissioner Harriet, second by Commissioner Santiago. Please vote. Motion passes seven to zero. This time we're going to go to Vice Mayor for F, Consent Agenda, Request for Approval Resolution Number 2026-38 for the Approval of Broker Agent for Insurance Programs. Thank you, Mayor. I'm just wondering, it says that a committee was formed and they're the ones who made the decisions to submit to a selection of the insurance that was selected. Who was this committee? Was it staff or was it residents? It was staff. It was staff. Yes, ma'am. So both, because it seems like it was two different committees, right? No, it was one committee. Okay. All right. So this is a new medical insurance that's coming into place or that doesn't affect the medical insurance? It doesn't affect the medical insurance. It's the broker for the medical. So it's just the broker part. Everything stays the same, coverage? Correct. Because last year's change messed up my dental. Oh. So I'm hoping that it doesn't touch anything else for the other staff members. It doesn't. Okay. That's what confused me if it was like two different committees that were looking at all the plans and selecting from that. But that's good. I'll make a motion to approve item F. There's a motion by Vice Mayor to approve item F. Second by Commissioner Harriet. Please vote. Commissioner Harriet was the it was for the second. That's why you were on the board. Got it. Motion passes seven to zero. Vice Mayor, we're not looking at item J. Request for approval of resolution number 2026-32. Mid-year budget amendment to fiscal year 2025-2026. I'm looking I have a question. I'm looking at the CDBG grant proceeds for the fire station 62 relocation. Where are we relocating that fire station to? Vice Mayor, at this time we have not determined the exact location but seeing that we are having to spend money we're reallocating the budget to other areas between CDBG and CRA both. In this case for CDBG the the new manager when they went back into itis we do not have as much money available to us in the CDBG program so we had to reduce that allocation from CDBG. So you're no longer relocating the fire station or you just We haven't determined the new location but we don't have there's not enough money in CDBG funding to allocate CDBG funds for. So we reduced that funding source. Where is the new location? Are we allowed to know? We have not determined that location at this time. Okay and can you remind me again why this is the one on Diamond correct? Yes ma'am. Can you remind me again why we're relocating that fire station? We're currently in the middle of trying to determine the best location based on the call volume of the best strategic place to put a fire station Diamond because it's back a little bit it doesn't serve the best majority of the calls that we respond to. So we're currently looking at with the new fire chief the deputy city manager and GIS to determine that best spot. So now that we're looking at that spot then they're keying in on available land. So you are looking at a spot? We are ma'am. We don't know which spot but we're looking. Oh you haven't identified a spot yet. That is correct. Okay. I know that you guys were looking at somewhere by Alexander or something like that closer to Doyle. Yes ma'am. There's several spots that we've seen at this time though until GIS completes their data log with the fire chief we can't determine that exact spot. Okay. Alright that's all I have for this. Thank you ma'am. Thank you. Commissioner Harriet. I'd like to make a motion to approve resolution number 2026-32 mid-year budget amendment. Commissioner Santiago. Second. There's a motion by Commissioner Harriet. Second by Commissioner Santiago. Please vote. Motion passes. Joyce are we allowed to abstain? I feel like I have to after what Commissioner Santiago just put forth. The only way to abstain would be to declare the conflict and then complete the form at the end of the meeting or this week. Well if we're going to ethics it sounds like there's an accusation of just exactly that so why wouldn't I abstain? Are you okay with that? No you have to either vote yes or no you can abstain but you must declare a conflict and state what that conflict is and then you have to complete the disclosure the conflict disclosure form. Pending Commissioner Santiago's complaint that is the potential conflict. I think Mayor and Commissioners I don't know if Robin has anything more but I believe the concern is is there anything in this mid-year review that affects the clerk's office? Well it has to do with the budget. Well it's not the budget it's. No that's the complaint. Okay. You have to describe what the misdirection is right? I think as long as you complete the conflict disclosure you can abstain. So the motion passes 6 to 1 abstain. Alright we're going to go ahead and we're going to move to ordinances and public hearings section 8 A as in alpha. If I can please have the city attorney read the public hearing. Thank you so much Mr. Mayor. This is ordinance number 06 dash 2026 an ordinance of the city of Deltona Florida establishing a new article 3 small wireless facilities of chapter 82 communication antennas and towers within the land development code of the city of Deltona's code of ordinances in order to comply with Florida statutes and best practices providing for conflicts codification severability and an effective date. This is first reading. Alright this time I will hear or entertain a motion and a second so we can begin the presentation. Commissioner Harriet. I'd like to make a motion for the sake of discussion for ordinance number 06 dash 2026 and then I'd also have some comments on it. Okay we'll come back to you. Commissioner Novick. Second. There's a motion by Commissioner Harriet and a second by Commissioner Novick. We're going to go ahead and listen to presentation and then hear public comment and then we'll go to the rest of the discussion. Good evening Mayor. Commissioners Jordan Smith Community Development Services Director. This item before you is ordinance number 06 dash 2026 which proposes amendments to chapter 82 of the Land Development Code related to communication antennas, towers, and wireless communication facilities. The request is to amend chapter 82 of the Land Development Code to establish regulations for small wireless facilities consistent with Florida statutes and applicable federal law. What is a small wireless facility? Small wireless facilities are the smaller pole mounted devices commonly used to support cellular and data network coverage. These are typically installed within public right-of-ways and are substantially smaller in scale than traditional cell towers. In 2017, the Florida Legislator adopted the Advanced Wireless Infrastructure Deployment Act codified in section 337.407 print 7 Florida statutes. This established statewide framework regulating small wireless facilities within public rights-of-way. In 2019, the Legislator expanded those preemptions, further limiting local government authority over placement and approval of wireless. So these are regulations that should have been done by the City in 2019. So some typical questions you may be asking yourself as I go through this presentation. Can we deny these facilities only if the application fails to meet objective applicable code standards? Can we control where they go only to the extent allowed under objective placement standards standards within right-of-way? Can the City prohibit these in residential areas? No. State law preempts local governments from prohibiting small wireless facilities and public rights-of-way, including those adjacent to residential areas provided the application meets code requirements. Can the City require providers to use existing polls first? No. While co-location is encouraged, state law prohibits the City from requiring applicants to demonstrate that co-location is not feasible before installing a new poll. And can the City require spacing separation between facilities? No. State law preempts local governments from imposing separation distances from small wireless facilities. Is the City required to allow these facilities? Yes. Florida statutes require local governments to allow small wireless facilities within public rights-of-way, subject to objective and non-discriminatory standards. And can the City require providers to use existing polls first? No, I heard that. I'm sorry. Okay, so why is this update needed? The proposed ordinance creates Section 82-120 through 82-133 and establishes Okay, so these amendments are necessary to bring the City's land development code into compliance with current state law. They also provide objective standards that allow the City to continue regulating placement, design, and safety to the extent permitted by law. The proposed ordinance creates Section 82-120 through 82-133 and establishes regulations addressing application procedures and review timelines, placement standards within the right-of-way, design and concealment requirements, equipment and lighting restrictions, and compliance with building electrical and safety codes. Although state law preempts much of the City's authority, the City retains the ability to regulate objective standards related to public safety, ADA and pedestrian accessibility, traffic safety, infrastructure conflicts, and aesthetic and design requirements, including concealment and neutral colors. The ordinance includes design standards to reduce visual impacts by requiring concealment and shrouding of equipment, neutral colors, corridor consistency, and restrictions on excessive or freestanding equipment. These standards help preserve community aesthetics while complying with state law. However, state law prohibits the City from imposing certain requirements including separation distances, demonstration of service needs, zoning approvals, and proof that co-location is not feasible. As such, the City's authority is limited to those objective standards expressly permitted by law. Based on stats review, the proposed amendments are consistent with the comprehensive plan and applicable state law. The planning and zoning board considered this item on April 29, 2026 and recommended approvals 7-0. The ordinance is scheduled for first reading tonight and second reading is scheduled for June 1st. That's it, Mayor. Is there any public comment? All right, Commissioner Caldwell, you were up first. Jordan, let's use five as a number here. So let's say there's five carriers out there and they all want to put one in the corner of Elkham and Newmark, which is my district. So there's nothing we can do to stop from having five poles or five mini receivers put in that area? Is there a distance that we can require? No. So we can't stop? Our hands are tied. There's nothing we can do in our ordinance or codes to, as a state mandated? Yes. Thank you. Commissioner Harriot? Thank you, Mayor. Well, this is kind of disappointing from the state. It's something that I think it's incumbent upon all of us to bring up with our state delegation because this is worrisome. On another direction and another direction, and I don't know that this is the right place for it, but I would like to, I know that there are plenty of cell tower sites on properties that the city owns. and I'd like to see us put together a program that would allow beekeepers to keep bees on those sites. So I understand this probably isn't the best place for us since this is talking specifically in public rights of ways, but I would like us to work in that direction and possibly some sort of cost sharing program, but something that we can expand beekeeping across the city. Thank you, Mayor. Vice Mayor. Thank you, Mayor. It is disappointing. I don't even know why it's brought up. Something like this is brought up to commissioners when we don't have a saying, we can't even deny it. So it's just a comment on my part. I know you guys are doing your job, but something like this shouldn't even be bothered to be brought up to the commission. If we ask for this, it says, I mean, I watched the PNZ board meeting and I heard their comments and everything was no, no, no, no. So, but I appreciate you letting us know what we cannot do. Thank you. So, Vice Mayor and Commission, so one of the reasons why staff is bringing this forward is we've gotten, I wouldn't say an influx, but we've received a fair amount of applications. We do not have anything in place, but now with this, we'll at least have design standards in place. So we will have regulations in place for future applications that come through. So it's better than having nothing. Commissioner Herriot. Thank you, Mayor. Sorry, I do have another question on this. Say that one of their applications is to put one of these small wireless facilities in a location that we potentially would want to, say, expand the roadway or add a turn lane or something to that effect. Do we then have a basis to deny their request or would we have the ability to require them to move it when we go to complete that transportation project? We would have to work with the carrier on that. Okay. Would there be benefit in being more thorough in areas where we would potentially have transportation improvements so that we can, we have some basis to say that this is in our future plans? I'd like to get a point of clarification from the city attorney. I think that's a good line of questioning and I'd like to know because if we do have some infrastructure improvements, let's say on Newmark and, you know. Elkham and Newmark, say, a turn lane or something or even, you know, Catalina. Or Fort Smith and Newmark, those, those are great points, you know, a city attorney. I mean, if you don't have an answer right now, obviously you can get back to us. We'll have to look into this, Jordan. I don't know if you. I think one, one of the things Commissioner Harriet's leading towards is can we deny these facilities? One thing is if it conflicts with existing utilities or infrastructure in the right of way, I believe that's what you're referring to. We've got our answer. All right. Commissioner Caldwell. Were you done, Commissioner? Commissioner Caldwell. Yeah, I had the same question as him, but you just mentioned at the end my other question. So if there's infrastructure already underneath, say, fiber optics and things like that, that'll dictate where they can put these? That would dictate. And it'll go through a review process with the city? Yes. Thank you. All right. Seeing that there's no other questions on here, can we please go ahead for a vote? Not like we can do anything else, but thank you. Gemma, before we move on to the next item, does that, does that, does that fall under like the homeland security thing where we don't, we're not allowed to know where those things are going to get located? Or could the commission get a list of where they're planning to locate them? No, these are, yeah, we, I mean, I don't want to speak for staff, but they don't fall under homeland security, so I'll defer to. Just technically it's somewhat like infrastructure. That's why I asked. Yeah, that's what I was going to get to. Mayor, these come in as a right-of-way use permit application. Perfect. That's all I need to know. And then when our, hold on, when our commissioner comments come up, then I'll do the request or either of you can make a request. All right, we're going to go ahead and move to action items, nine A's and alpha, consideration of appointment of an alternate to the planning and zoning board. All right, I'm going to go ahead and, because nobody is posting, I guess there's only two people, correct? All right, I'm going to go ahead and make a motion. All right. I move to appoint the following alternate member, Norma Jean Gadia. I hope I said that right if she's in the audience. I did not say that right. Of course. I'm sorry. I know what it feels like to get your name butchered. To the planning and zoning board for a term to expire on March 15, 2028. There's a second by Commissioner Harriet. All right. Is there any public comment on this? All right. Is there any questions from those on the dais? Is there a comment? Can you please go to the podium? Just while we were on the topic of filling spots, don't we have to do that for Team Volusia? I'll do the next commission meeting. Okay. All right. Can we please go for a vote? The motion passes unanimously. This time we're going to go ahead to city attorney comments. No comments at this time. Thank you, Mayor. City manager comments? Mayor, it was brought up a little earlier about the Teresa Basin. It actually, I believe, landed on our staff's desk at this point. They're doing their general evaluation right now of what we're looking at and it'll be publicly out to the commission in a very short time. Thank you. 30 days, maybe? Hopefully. All right. No further comments? City commission comments and requests. We'll start with Commissioner Novick. For Jordan and planning development, drone delivery is coming from Walmart and many other things probably will follow. I received information a couple of months back about a medical drone program to be able to deliver emergency equipment to more rural areas. I don't think it really would apply in Deltona, but Chief Clutterbuck's looked at it at EMS and is bringing it up countywide. My question is, I know the drone activity is covered primarily by FAA, but do you see an opportunity to create any kind of regulatory ordinance, hours of operation, height restrictions, flying roads rather than over people's houses? Commissioner, those are all good questions, and we just had a pre-op for the Walmart drone delivery, the Walmart on Howland. Our hands are pretty much tied in terms of what we can put in our code. We can restrict, we can regulate fences, and then the structure that the drones are kept in, but other than that, we cannot regulate anything else. Okay. Thank you. That's all I've got. First of all, I'm here. Commissioner Colwell? Yes. One of my comments was on the Teresa Basin, but you've already covered that for us. Thank you very much. I have some questions about the unfinished developments, one being the Enrico. Maybe this is something for the attorney. I was able to visit the site, and obviously we can't move forward on condemning them or having them removed. Is there anything we can do to prod this project along? We have several projects that have been sitting stale in the city here for a while. I think one is Osprey Estates, and the other one down on Doyle. Is there any type of presentation we can get on how we can protect ourselves from these unfinished developments, how we can force them to be done in a timely manner, so to speak? Moving forward, obviously there's nothing we can do about the ones that are here. So code enforcement is the right avenue for this, and our code enforcement department is excellent. They do a great job, and we can just continue to encourage them to enforce the code. It is tricky to foreclose our liens. We can explore it, and we are underway on two lien foreclosures right now, but... Those are mostly after the fact. I'm looking at something that we could preempt this situation from happening again as far as changing our ordinances or our development codes. So I'm happy to, we're happy to work with staff and... Just a point of clarification, we did ask for that several, I mean, it's probably been a while, but we did, and I believe the last time we heard back was that it's going to be worked in the code, but can we get an update at least on that? Because we, I mean, I know, I even said that if they do something like this, like a second, for them not to be allowed to come back to the city, period. I mean, I don't know how much we can restrict, because, you know, we believe in private property rights, but to Commissioner Caldwell's point, I mean, I think all of us up here, regardless if we agree, there's one thing we can all agree on this dais, is that we're all sick and fed up with that whole development process, and we want something done. So to his point, can we get some type of clarification of what preemptions we can put in so this does not happen again? I mean, I'm happy to work with staff, but to be, it's hard to do anything outside of code enforcement in that people do have private property rights, and you can't force a private business to take action, which is building a building in a certain time, other than what we have in code, right? So we can do code enforcement if, and enforce our codes if they're in violation of our codes, but... Could we put something in place, for example, for safety reasons? Because that should... If a building is unsafe, you can red tag it and demo it and have the demo be, you know, added to the lien and put on the project, but then you have to determine that the building is unsafe. I know it's frustrating, but, I mean, frankly, private industry does have a, I mean, the right to develop and to take their time, and financing is complicated. We could explore, you know, certain, I mean, we do have bonds, infrastructure bonds in place for certain projects. If it's a city project, we have a lot more control. If we control the dirt, if we own the underlying fee, and we do a ground lease, and, you know, we have more agency, it's hard, though, with private property owners, I mean, certainly John Cox and economic development, there's some levers there, but, frankly, none of them are going to be big enough to move the needle in these big-scale projects that struggle. I'm not talking about the changing of a B-putter or something like that, the owner's rights. I'm talking about these are projects that are already approved, they've gone through the process, there's got to be some kind of mechanism we can put in there that they're finished in a timely manner, because we've all came to an agreement at that point. I mean, I'm going to give you a good example. Think about very rural parts of communities that are platted and have their development rights in place, and they take 30 years to develop and build those houses. That land banking, extending time, waiting for investment, those are all reasonable things. And it only benefits the developer. Yeah, I mean, the only way to truly control dirt is if you own the dirt. So, it's like if someone is mad that their neighbor's building a house, they live in a rural community and the lot next door or someone builds a house, well, you should have bought that lot. The only way you can prevent someone from doing something with land you don't like is controlling that land, owning that land. I mean, we can continue to explore, but certainly we don't like to give you bad news, and we can continue to try to come up with creative solutions, but the reality is that, I mean, we could look into changing zoning, we can look at updating the comp plan, but the reality is that it's challenging with private industry that has private property rights to compel them to do something when we don't have a ton. I mean, we have code enforcement. And frankly, this is a problem all across. I mean, think about the crash of 2008. I mean, that's the perfect example, right? Everybody went belly up, and there were unfinished projects all over. The problem is that when a company goes under, there's usually no one to look to, and you can't restrict, you know, again, an intelligent developer will just start a new company, right? And they'll come back, and they'll develop under a new LLC. So, it's a hard thing. I mean, I'll say this. You can control the dirt, or you could go out, and I think, again, John Cox and the manager have done a really good job in the world of economic development, as have you all, at focusing on projects you want to attract. And that's a strategy to say, this is a piece of property. We want to see this occur here. And we, as a city, will welcome it. We will help, you know, we will provide incentives and programs to smooth your path forward. That's a way to sort of hedge against problems, because when we, let's say, for example, we did decide, okay, we want to have a movie theater at this location. And it's privately owned, but we believe that movie theaters are good for families, and we're going to incentivize it, and we'll agree to put in the sidewalks for the movie theater. And because of that, we then have a city investment in the project, right? We have an economic development investment in the project. So, we have a little more control, and we can put in some restrictions and rules related to our investment and the skin that the city has in the game. So, that's a way to sort of hedge against development challenges, is to be very involved in recruiting the development you want, incentivizing it, creating a real economic benefit for them, which is like the carrot, right? And if they don't meet the conditions, then you have the stick. So, that's a creative way to... When we require a bond on some of these projects, is there any control we have over on collecting on these bonds, so to speak, a time frame? So, typically, they're infrastructure bonds. The only time that we really can have more complicated bonds, performance bonds, are when we, like that deal we had that involved Edward Rose, right? We negotiated that complicated tri-party deal, where we did have a performance bond, but not everyone performed. So, we were ready, but they didn't get to the point to trigger even the purchase, right? So, they couldn't even get to that point. There's just a limit to what... And I don't like to say there's limits to what we can do, but there are limits to what we can do. But, again, I mean, there's creative solutions, and, again, I think the staff has done a really good job with economic development, and that is a good creative solution to, if you want to see something in a certain place, or you don't want to see something in a certain place, and as a government, certainly you have the right to land bank and then say, you know, we're going to buy this anything and hold it for stormwater or hold it for, who knows, hold it for public purpose down the road, a park, a passive park, whatever it is you want. So, you have the right to do that. I'll kick this back to the manager. Is, Commissioner, what you're thinking something like in the vein of, if you're going to build this and we're changing zoning, you have three years to get started. Correct. If in five years you don't finish something else. Correct. I don't know, that's one thing we could look into, but I guess that's kind of where you're going. At that point, all the approvals have come through. We already know you're going to do something with the land. Yeah. We're given permission. And our commitment is to give you this. What is your commitment to us? Yes. If that's something we could look at as staff and come back, maybe other cities have things like that in place. Yeah, we definitely can look at that, and development agreements, when we have them in place, give us the right to do that. So we need to change our development agreements. It's only if they need something from us. If they already, if they buy a piece of land, and it's fully entitled, and they don't need anything from us, they don't need a change in zoning, they don't need a variance, they don't need anything, there's, they don't have to do a development agreement with us. They only have to engage with us if they want to do something different than what they are already allowed to do. And so that's why there's no, like, perfect solution. The key is in the change of zonings. If they want to do it. Something like that. Right. And, like, someone could get fed up with us and say, I'm just going to take my, you know, what I have is my underlying zoning, I'm not, I'm going to withdraw, I don't want to jump through your hoops. They often want to, right, because it's financially advantageous for them. Financially, yes. For more density, right? But that doesn't, that doesn't, that's not every project. And some projects are just, they have, they can develop as a matter of right. And they can, and do, often, you you know, get in sticky situations. But the manager's right. When there is, when they have to engage with us, we certainly can put in time limits. And we did, when we did that deal, I mean, there were time limits. That was one of many. I mean, there's, like I said, there's at least three projects that I know of out there that are sitting land cleared, infrastructure in, in this case, buildings up, and finished almost the completion of flooring, you know. It just. It is frustrating. And I think, again, whenever they come to us, we can work to, with the staff to ensure that there's a clock in the development agreement when that is, that comes into play. And again, code enforcement, I know these aren't the greatest answers, but it's a, there is not a one size fits all. There's not like a magic bullet for this type of problem, unfortunately. Thank you. Vice Mayor, did you want to comment really quick on? So we had requested that a while back about putting it a time, timeline on new developments, because this is like really getting out of hand. Deltona is going to be known as the unfinished houses building projects. There are so many of them, even, even individual homes I drive by, and there's a lot of them that are not completed, and I continually drive by, and they're still in the same condition I looked at a month ago. So I, I believe, and I, it's, I think we did request this, a back a while for staff to look into it. So this is not a new request. Yeah, and Vice Mayor, just so you know, I mean, we have put it when we can in development agreements and PUDs. So I, unfortunately, Jordan has left. But I, I, we can set up, we can call you tomorrow and call you individually if you'd like to talk to you more about this and bring an update to the next meeting. We, whenever there is, again, whenever they need something from us, we can and have put time limits in, and we'll continue to do so. But going forward, you, you, you, you'll be able to do that for other contracts coming forward to, for new development and stuff like that. Am I correct? If they need something from us, when they need a PUD, if they need a change in zoning, if they need a variance, if they need something, if they don't need anything and they can develop, a single family home is actually the perfect example. If you buy a single family lot, you can take your sweet time because you don't need anything from us. If you're just building to spec and you're building, you know, in accordance with our code, there's nothing that we can do to force you to go fast unless you violate a code and we can have code enforcement, unless it's unsafe and we can red tag. It's. Thank you. If you can just get back to all of us, that'd be great. Commissioner Howington. Thank you. So going back to the last meeting, I had made a request if we could have a presentation of the ADA improvements that have been made. And as of April 24th, there were new regulations that went into place. I don't want to know specifically what we're doing for individual people. I would like to hear from our ADA coordinator on what the city's doing to improve our services, because I know that there have been a lot of strides made to do that. So if we could hear from that person, that would be great. We've had residents request it. But again, we like to ignore our residents, don't we? It's an inappropriate question. I'm not going to answer it. That's ridiculous. Oh, no. I'm good. That is unnecessary. Okay. When I met with a developer about three or four weeks ago, they had informed me that we were signing off on a third Amazon building, and I'd like to know where that stands, because I'm hearing it from a developer that we're getting a third Amazon, and I'm not hearing that from the city. So why am I hearing information from outside the city that I don't get from in the city? Commissioner, it's not a final decision at this point, and it's not for the city to promote what other companies are doing that are coming into the city. We're working with them, and things take time. Nothing is built, as you were told the other day, until it started building in the ground. Something's put in the ground, so there's no guarantee anything's going to happen at any time. So there is no information at this moment to report to you, other than you've heard a rumor that Amazon's coming for a third building. We hope that that's true, but for the city to promote what's happening with Amazon and have Amazon not actually promote themselves at this situation, there are some things that happen at the staff level, administrative level, that we aren't able to just go out publicly and start announcing to everybody what's happening, because that actually makes projects fall through and makes other developers look at us and be gun-shy to say, I'm going to meet with John, give him all the details of what we're thinking about doing so that we can go to social media and announce it. That's totally inappropriate. So, no, at this point, we have nothing to announce about Amazon 3 at this moment. Okay, so I'll just start getting my information from developers outside of the city. Let's see. Okay, so did Chick-fil-A have a representative of some sort make a request for $750,000 to the economic development director? Was there not an email that went back and forth? I have the answer, so you may as well admit it. Then why don't you explain what you know, Commissioner, because I don't think it's appropriate, again, if you have an answer, to ask staff to give you the answer that you have. I'm not asking staff. I'm asking the city manager. Yes, and I'm staff. So, there was an offer by Chick-fil-A. The city said, no, and that's where it ended. Don't bring those topics to the commission to discuss, guess who called us today? We have all kinds of options coming. This has happened, and this has happened, and that's happening. It didn't go anywhere. You have an email that clearly says, we said no to their offer. And then you went on social media and asked the citizens, do they think we should give $750,000 to Chick-fil-A because that's what staff's considering when you clearly knew. No, I didn't say staff was considering it. I did not say staff was considering it. You said the city is considering the $750,000 for Chick-fil-A. No, I said it might. And it wasn't. It was absolutely a zero. So, if a developer comes to the city of Deltona and they get a no answer from staff, is there an option for them to make a request to come before this board to ask for us to override staff? Sure. Anybody can speak to the commission at any time. That's what we have commission meetings for. So, in other words, Chick-fil-A was told no by staff, correct? Yeah, we represent the city to make sure that we don't make a bad deal, and $750,000 for something that's going to bring a small amount of tax money in makes no sense at all. And then in the email back to them, it was acknowledged that they needed that $750,000 in order to move forward with the project. Every developer. That's the economic development director's email. Every developer will tell you they need money or they can't move forward. We see that every day. However, that's what the email stated. Okay. Then, fast forward to a few months later, it is still being discussed as an option to have Chick-fil-A coming to town. with the prior email stating that we know, as a city, the economic development director knows, that they needed that money to move forward. No, they asked for that money to move forward, but they may end up coming to the city at a cost of zero to the city. They don't know. They might. We don't know at this time. They might. That's where that word might comes in. That's why we don't publicly discuss these things as you're doing right now. But, again, that's not misinformation. That is exact information as it was written in the email. Did you ask? They can come back and ask us to do that in the future. They can ask us to do anything. So is it not my right as an elected representative to ask my residents how they feel about giving incentives? Commissioner, you can do whatever you'd like as elected official, but if you hurt the economic development process by going out and announcing that the city is considering giving something to a company, when you clearly saw an email that said, we said, no, we're not doing that at all. No, I don't think it helps the economic development process for the city to deal with the next developer, because whatever we say to them or they say to us is going to be put out all public. It's not meant the commissioner's job is not to get into the weeds on every business that knocks on our door and says something. It's just not. When we bring something to you that we can vote on and move forward, if we find there's somewhere the commission can help in the process without a doubt. But we told you in the hallway in confidence of just, hey, giving you a heads up what happened with Chick-fil-A that's not moving forward, and you put a post out as if it was actually happening. Now, what's Chick-fil-A thinking? What is every developer thinking that wants to come to our city that that's inside information that should not be made public? That's the issue, I think, of what happened here. Well, I know my residents keep telling me they don't want any more quick service restaurants. They want sit-down restaurants. Exactly. We all do, I believe. I don't think... So I think it's fair to ask them what they want. But don't imply... Don't say the name of the company and imply that the city is still considering this. Did I sign an NDA? You have to sign an NDA to understand you don't publicly announce potential economic development? When I'm not getting information directly. There was no information to give the commission. I think I just explained that in detail. Well, I think it's very clear that the information I did put out there was based on actual emails that did take place. It was not misinformation. You might not like how it was delivered. You didn't put the information out to explain. This is not happening, though. No, I asked a question for my residents. That's enough. You guys are acting like children. Commissioner Howington, you have a little bit more respect. It's okay to talk to your city manager. We are all his bosses. But show him some respect. He doesn't show respect. There is no reason to down talk to city staff. That's enough. Ask your questions respectfully like we all do up here. None of us agree on a lot of stuff, but we don't down talk to our staff. When was our fraud policy revoked? I don't have the information, but we have the fraud policy among all of the other policies. As you recall at that time, we removed, I don't know, 20, 30, 40 policies that were actually all within other policies. So that was all relevant. I don't know. What are you looking for? Because the fraud policy actually, that didn't really involve the commission. Well, it specifically lists commissioners in the policy. And the discipline was termination. I'm talking about the overall policy. Yes, written by a city manager, which when you write a city manager policy, we have no say over the commission. So therefore, it really has nothing to do with the commission, especially when the discipline includes termination and or suspension or some other disciplines. That's not, we can't do anything to do with the commission. So then does that mean that if you write a policy that oversteps and goes towards the commissioners, that that would be a problem? You would not follow that policy, obviously, because it has nothing to do with the commission. Staff cannot put a policy together that affects the commission. No, period. Okay, I'll print one out. Thank you. Let's see. How about the impact fee study? How's that coming along? I believe that was, was it this summer or fall? That's still in the process, without a doubt. Yes. Thank you. I was informed that PNZ is having to fill out financial forms and that that seemed to be a surprise to some people. Have there been changes in the requirements for PNZ board members? PNZ board members have always been required to fill out the F-1 form and they're notified when they get appointed. They've been doing it since I've been here. So is there a way to put that out there before, like when they're filling out the application so that they know? Yeah, we can shoot them an email when we get the application. Just say, hey, be aware that you're going to have to fill out this form, maybe have a copy of it so they'll know what's on there. Okay, thank you. And then going back to public forum being part of the meeting time. So we've gone back and forth, and back, I believe, in November or December, Vice Mayor brought forth a vote to put public forum back into the meeting, and that was voted down. But I'm very curious because we were just told at the last meeting that public forum is part of the meeting. So if it was part of the meeting, why did we have a consensus vote to put it back in the meeting? And then subsequently, our two-and-a-half-hour meetings beyond that started at the 6.30 time. So I'm confused as to why it keeps changing. And that was echoed by some of our residents who've been here and have seen that. And if public forum is part of the actual meeting, and we are not allowed to hold a meeting without a quorum, how come on September 3rd, public forum was held without anyone sitting on this dais? If it was part of the meeting, we would need a quorum. But yet we had people speaking to an empty dais. Commissioner, these are many things that you can certainly talk to me away from the commission meeting if you choose to come to the office. It needs to be in public. That's number one. Come on. I'm saying there's a lot of questions here of trying to gotcha questions, which you can clearly speak to me any other time. The public forum, you don't need a quorum. Presentations, you don't need a quorum. Workshops, we don't need a quorum. So it sounds like you're implying since we didn't have a quorum for a meeting, therefore we couldn't have public forum. No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I think you just said. No, I said if it is part of the meeting, as you stated in the last meeting, that we cannot have public forum unless we have a quorum. No, no, no. I said if there's not a meeting, we don't have public forum just out of the blue. Because, again, you don't need a quorum for public forum. Commissioners are all sitting here at 6 o'clock and dedicated. To say we're not having a meeting right now, I don't know what we're having then at 6 o'clock. What are we having? But to say, well, we should have public forum even though the meeting's canceled, no, they generally go together. That was my point. Public forum is part of the commission meeting. But to say we can't have public forum if there's not a commission meeting, why not? You have workshops. That's what it really is. You don't need a quorum to have anything on the agenda except things voted on. So, yeah, it's part of the meeting, but it's not that you have to have a quorum to have public forum or presentations or anything else or commissioner comments. So then should we have all of that before the meeting time so that we're not losing out on our business time for the two and a half hours? You want to start the meeting at 6.30 and go... Well, that's what we had done up until March. So we'll have public forum from 6.30 to 7 o'clock. Okay. Public forum is not part of the meeting. If the commission would like to start the meeting at 6.30, excuse me? Public forum is not part of the meeting. And then if it always was, why did we have a vote in December to put it back in the meeting? That was a vote by the commission, but that was not a decision by administration to take your vote. That was no. You know, that's up to the administration when it comes to... You're referring to television, basically, I assume, is what you're getting at? No, I'm referring to the meeting time limit. Well, then we'll have it at 6.30 if the commission would like, 6.30 to 7. It'll be public comment. And then at 7 o'clock, your meeting would start. That's up to the commission if they want to make that decision, your business part of the meeting, the part where you actually have to have a quorum to vote. Point of order, we need an extension. Is there a motion and a second to extend the time? There's a motion by Commissioner Avila Vasquez. Is there a second? Okay. The motion dies. I will defer to Commissioner. All right. Commissioner Emma Santiago, you have a minute. You have to turn on your microphone. Thank you, Mayor. Just really quick, River O'Lakes, Heritage Corridor, Corridor is having a young adults photography contest. It runs now until June 1st. More information. I'll give it to staff, see if they can put that on there, the library. I was also asked to just mention that there's a free, at the Deltona Amphitheater, Night of Jazz. It's going to be with the Deltona Blue Brigade and the, huh? Thank you. Meetings adjourned. Okay, thanks.