Okay, I'd like to call the meeting to order. Is the recorder on? Anyone in the public who would like to speak tonight, please sign in if you haven't done so already. And let's call the roll. Gregory Pitts is here. Benjamin Baffert is here. Zach Perdue? Here. Jake Eliopoulos is absent. Chris Cabezas? Here. Richard Kasser? Here. Peter Dwyer? Here. All right, we'll call to order the meeting of November 4th, 2026 for the HPV board. Are there any changes to the agenda? No. Okay. Would someone like to make a motion to approve the agenda? I'll make a motion. Second. All in favor, let's take the roll. Gregory Pitts? Yes. Benjamin Baffert? Yes. Zach Perdue? Yes. Jake Eliopoulos is absent. Chris Cabezas? Yes. Richard Kasser? Yes. Peter Dwyer? Yes. Okay, do we have minutes to approve? It looks like we do. Can we have a motion to approve the minutes? I'll make the motion. And a second, please? I'll second, please. Gregory Pitts? Yes. Benjamin Baffert? Yes. Zach Perdue? Yes. Jake Eliopoulos is absent. Chris Cabezas? Yes. Richard Kasser? Yes. Peter Dwyer? Yes. Okay, at this point, we'd like to swear in the public. If the authority has sent me as a notary of the state of Florida, do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give to the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Are there any comments from the public not related to the quasi-judicial part of this hearing? If you'd like to speak, you can approach. You'll be limited to three minutes. Okay, seeing there is no one coming forward, we will move on to presentations. Are there any presentations, Michelle? Okay. All right. We will start the quasi-judicial part of the hearing after we read the... Okay. This hearing shall be conducted in accordance with the City of Delray Beach quasi-judicial rules. The applicant and the City shall be permitted to present their case. The public shall be allowed to speak for three minutes each, or a maximum of six minutes, if the person represents an organization or group of people who are present but agree not to speak. The City Commission, Board members, staff, and the applicant may be allowed to cross-examine a witness. The City or the applicant will be allowed to offer rebuttal testimony. The decision to approve or deny an application or appeal may not legally be made upon personal views as to whether a project is a good project or not, nor may a decision be based on the number of citizens who support or oppose a particular project. The law requires that all decisions must be made on the basis of whether the project meets the requirements of law, the comprehensive plan, and the land development regulations. Okay. At this point, I think we can start with our first item. For the record, Michelle Hewitt, Senior Planner, and this is Addenda Item 8A for 714 Northeast 2nd Avenue, Certificate of Appropriateness, File Number HP 623-2026. As the applicant approaches, if you want to ask if there are any ex parte communications. Yes. Any ex parte communications from the board members? No. Yes. I spoke to staff. No. No. No. No. None. The applicant is here, or the homeowner is here to present their request. Okay. Please state your name and address for the record. Hi. My name is Peggy Lindsey. I'm the owner of 714 Northeast 2nd Avenue. I live there full-time. This is my son, Chad Lindsey, and he's assisting me with this project. Very good. Thank you. First of all, good evening, and thank you, staff, especially Ms. Hewitt, for working with us. I own and live at 714 Northeast 2nd Ave, and I'm seeking approval of a small addition and the existing fence. You're along with me. I haven't done a presentation in quite some time. This is my full-time residence, and I chose it because I love its historic character and the peace the double lot provides. I want to preserve the green space, not redevelop it. My intentions are to keep it quaint and peaceful. This is a double lot. It's over 15,000 square feet, and the addition is a mere 203 square feet. It's about 1% of the lot and less than 10% of the structures on site. It's approximately 77% of the lot stays open, three times what is required. The staff report finds the use, height, scale, roof, setbacks, and open space all compliant. That leaves three items to address tonight, the windows, the stucco, and the existing fence. Okay, first we'll start with the windows. The proposed high windows are in the new bathroom. They are over the tub and shower, and they're put there to provide daylight and privacy. They're on the west and south walls, which face the side and rear of the property, and they are not visible from public view. I would like to point out that the current existing windows on the south side of the house, where the current bathroom is, is also smaller, and they sit higher up. The new windows in the addition will be slightly different. However, the standards ask that new work be distinguishable and not a copy. They are the same white aluminum with clear glass, so they fit in quietly while also showing this part is new. I'd ask that they be approved as designed. On the stucco, we agree with the recommendations and fill this can be accomplished by making the stucco on the addition textured, not flat, and slightly finer than the original, so it isn't an exact copy. We can add a control joint where the new meets the old, showing where the original ends. The color will remain the same as the house. Side yard. Okay. Lastly is the existing fence. The fencing was installed by the previous owner seven years ago while he was installing the pool and the same permitted fence on the west side of the property. The fence only runs along the south side of the residence in front of the vacant lot. The property has 237 square feet of frontage. I'm sorry, not square feet. The fence is only 65 feet, and it leaves 73% open. It is set back from the street, and it's located behind the circle drive. There are existing plants and trees that also soften it from the street view. It doesn't block any view of the historic home because it's only on the south side. It's not in front of the home. The front northeast side on 2nd Ave and the north side on George Bush remain open to the street. The fence is precast concrete. It's a masonry material, which the guidelines call appropriate for Mediterranean Revival Homes. It's not stuccoed, but it's cast with a wood board texture to look like wood, and unlike wood, it will not rot. Staff notes wood is also used in the district. It's rated for 175 mile per hour wind gusts, so in a storm it shouldn't come apart and damage the historic home. I do love the look and the durability of the fence, the privacy, the safety, and especially the sound barrier. It provides from the constant road noise and traffic on northeast 2nd Ave. It also keeps my 200-pound grade Dane contained and quiet. I ask that it be approved as it stands. In closing, I'm asking the board to approve the addition with the windows as designed, the stucco as described, and the existing fence as installed. Thank you for your time, and I'm free to answer any questions. Okay, thank you. Sorry. Now, staff will go ahead and present at this point. You can sit down, and then you may come back up later. Once again, Michelle Hewitt, Senior Planner, and this is 714 Northeast 2nd Ave, Certificate of Appropriateness. Here we have on the screen an arrow with the subject property outlined in blue. To the north is Northeast 8th Street and or George Bush Boulevard, and to the east is Northeast 2nd Ave. Going through some photos here, this is the front or east elevation. This face is Northeast 2nd Ave. This is the side interior or south elevation. This is where the proposed addition is to go. This is another angle here of the side interior slash south elevation. Southwest corner. This is the side street or north elevation. This face is George Bush Boulevard. And this is the rear or west elevation of the main principal structure. Some history on the property. This consists of lots 14 and 15. Block 1 of Del Ida Park, which is zoned R-1-double-A. Additionally, the main dwelling and accessory structure were both constructed in 1925 in the Mediterranean Revival style. Both dwellings are contributing buildings within the Del Ida Park Historic District. In 2002, a COA application was submitted for the installation of a gazebo in the southwest corner of the property. However, those improvements were not completed. In 2019, a new swimming pool was installed through the permitting process. Also that year, a permit was submitted for the installation of horizontal fencing along the rear of the property only, which was subsequently closed. The fencing was installed along the rear, and the previous property owner also installed horizontal fencing in the front of the property along North East 2nd Avenue, which was not approved via a building permit. The subject request before the board is for a new 203-square-foot addition to the south side of the existing contributing principal structure, and an after-the-fact review of the installation of horizontal fencing. On the screen here, I have a survey with the subject structures, the principal on the northeast corner of the site in blue, and then that accessory structure on the northwest corner, and you can see where the swimming pool is and that circular driveway on the east there. Here we have the proposed site plan, with the proposed addition highlighted in red, relative to the existing principal structure. Here we have the proposed floor plan, where you can see its connection to the existing structure and that proposed bathroom use and closet here. Going for elevations, on the top is the existing south or side interior elevation, and on the bottom is the proposed south slash side interior elevation, with the proposed addition highlighted in red. On the top here is the existing west or rear elevation, and then on the bottom is the proposed, again, the red is the proposed addition. On the top, again, existing of the front or east elevation, the space is northeast 2nd avenue, and the bottom is the proposed, with the subject addition highlighted in red. The materials and colors are proposed to match as existing, including the white frame, aluminum, clear glass, no tint or reflective, no low-E windows, and the pinkish color of the existing structure. There, as the applicant indicated, they're going to slightly alter the difference between stucco patterns, but again, a thick frosting-like appearance will still be applied on that addition, as well as the same looping material. Going to the Secretary of Interior Standards for Rehabilitation, I have the subject standards that were applicable to this request. Here on the screen is a staff report excerpt regarding the stucco, as the existing stucco pattern for the historic contributing structure is thick, almost frosting-like. It is a character-defining feature of this particular structure and Mediterranean revival in general. For the addition, the proposed stucco, again, doesn't need to be identical. This will help discern the existing or original from the new, and it would be a technique that would be only the trained eye could pick up. Here we have a staff report excerpt regarding the fencing. In relation to the materials utilized for existing horizontal fencing, there is concern with the use of the horizontal-style fencing for the Mediterranean revival contributing structure, as this type of fencing orientation is more so seen on a modern style like mid-century modern, and the fencing hadn't received all of the proper approvals. And here it is on the front here. The white is our gates, vertical wood gates on, you can see on the left and a little bit behind the trees on the right there. Going to visual compatibility standards, here's a staff report excerpt regarding visual compatibility for windows. There is concern with the use of smaller horizontal fixed windows on the addition, as majority of the buildings or all of the windows on the existing structure are more vertically oriented. The proposed horizontal windows have a more modern architectural style and are not typically used or seen on Mediterranean revival architectural styles. Consideration could be given to either a pattern that is similar or less horizontal in appearance. And you can see here that existing on the top in proposed, the difference in window type. And then regarding the addition, it is not possible for an addition to not be visible from the public right-of-way. However, the proposed basement is recessed and small relative to the square footage of the existing principal structure. There are some minor concerns that the proposed window appearance is stuck apart in and fencing. Therefore, the board will have to make a determination that the proposal is compliant with the visual compatibility standards. Here are the certificate of appropriateness findings and site plan technical items. And that concludes my presentation. Thank you. The public may speak for up to three minutes if there's anybody from the public who would like to speak to this project. Okay. It looks like we don't have any public comment. Any cross-examination? Would you like? I wasn't sure if there were any questions. My only thing with the windows is I do realize they are different, a little different, but it also does require that they don't copy the original so that you can tell it's new. And it's not in public view. So it faces the back and the south side. And I am a corner lot, so I have more openings than the normal. It's just not one facing. So that would be it. Okay. Do you have any questions? Is there anything I can, any suggestions? Is it okay for us to do that? I don't know how to discuss it. It seems like you can move into board discussion at this point. We'll just move into board discussion. Okay. Do you want me to stand here or should I sit down? If somebody has a question right now, you can address her. Okay. I have a question for staff. And I know that the applicant mentioned that the windows should be different from what's currently there, so as not to mimic or create a false sense of concurrency, I guess, with the existing structure. But it looks like there's a number of different window patterns being used throughout the structure. And so would it be appropriate, the windows, I mean, those with the way that the interior of the property is laid out, I think, looks like those horizontal ones are needed to bring light in, but you have a sink or a shower or something. Correct. The windows that are proposed are actually over a tub and a shower, and that's why it faces the neighbor's house in the back. And if somebody's in the pool, like I use the double lot, that's my yard. That's where I hang out. So the pool's there, and if people are out there and somebody's in the shower or something, they'll be able to see in. But with the window being up high, it allows light but privacy. So I guess my question for staff then is, is the interpretation of not using the same materials, can that be applied to windows as well? So the primary concern is, well, yes, there are several different window types. It's the orientation of the windows, right? Most of them are vertically oriented, where this is horizontal, so as if back to the, on the, at this elevation, you see how the windows are a bit more square, less horizontally oriented. The ones on the south elevation are substantially wider, more horizontal. So those kind of distinctions make maybe something similar in that shorter side to be more compatible with what's there, but also having that distinction between existing or original and, and new, you know, I won't have the mutton, so that would also be a distinction as well. But again, just less about the horizontal orientation would be more in line and more appropriate for the strictly. Like these are fine. Yeah. These on the west elevation, there's no concern with those two little square rectangle type windows. So maybe that's what could be considered as using like three of those or four of those instead of two of the horizontal. Yeah, I mean, would that be a compromise that maybe could be considered? Yeah, or another suggestion, the reason why they're longer there and they're shorter, they're smaller there, is because there's not, I wanted to put a casement window. You see the casement window in the middle? And to put that, the way the beams and everything, because it's a block, are going to run, that was the only space he had for that window. And I believe the one to the right there of that casement window, that is where the shower is. So I believe that's why that is. We could make it bigger or like he had mentioned. So these are no, these are no problem. Those are no problem? It's the bigger, it's the bigger ones. It's the south side. Okay. Yeah, these are, we have no issue with. Okay. And this is hard to describe verbally. If I may, may I interact this way? Yes. Is it okay? Do you see how the windows to the left of the front door, of the side door, these guys? Yeah, those are the ones that are up higher, correct? Right. But do you see how like the size of the bottom of the window and the size of the top of the window looks like the size of that? So the trained eye would be able to pick up on the fact that those are original, these are later edition. I understand. So what we are, you know, discussing here is maybe instead of two long horizontal windows on this elevation, you incorporate three or four of those dial right there on that elevation. So you still have all the light coming in. You just don't have the long horizontal window. Yeah, because I wanted those to kind of be as big as I could get them to bring more light in because that's actually on the south side. I think there's trees in there. What we were saying is if you had four, right, with a separation between, basically you would cut these down the middle and have two and two. What about? Wouldn't an option be to kind of mirror the window that's, you know, two over from the same one we're looking at? There you go. Yeah, so the one that's two over, that's got the two muttons in there, we were to do something similar on those two windows to kind of mirror that? Yeah, as long as it's not a horizontal slider. It would have to be a casement. They're fixed windows. Oh, it would have to be a casement? Oh, a casement or fixed or single home. So if it was, those are fixed windows, I believe? Yeah. I think they're fixed windows. So if they put the dividers like we have. We're talking about this one right here where the mouse is. Correct. So they haven't looked like that. Yeah, that would be fine. So then we don't have to change the engineering because we've got everything all. I think you have options. The goal is to get it to look less modern. Okay. Because the horizontal transom look imparts a modern appearance. Okay, I understand. Yeah. I think there's a lot of options. Okay. All right, perfect. Yeah, we can do that. And if the board wanted to give her leeway with the architect to design and work with us, we're comfortable with that. Okay. So we would probably make a motion to approve with some conditions. I had a further question. Since the property is contributing, if they do the new addition, would the property remain under a survey, let's say, from the state or the Fed level? Would that still comply? Yes. The main reason why this is before the board this evening, because wasn't it less than 10%? Yes. It's just visibility. It was visibility. So there's an approval matrix that the board and the city staff have that give us some administrative authority and the board certain authorities. One of the allowances is if an addition is 10% or less of the square footage of the buildings there, staff can review and approve. But if it's visible from a right-of-way, it has to go to the board. So it's the only reason it's before you, that and the fence. But we would have handled this admin if we could have. So we don't have major concerns or just some fine detail tuning. But, yes, it would remain contributing. So that was the windows. Was there any changes to the fence that the staff recommends? So I think our main compromise could be, because what happened was the previous owner came in, did a swimming pool, submitted for the building permit for the fence, and the permit was in. But they never had it inspected and CO'd, so it was never finaled. And the fence, we had comments on. So we were telling them at the time, a horizontal slat fence is not the most appropriate for the Mediterranean revival. The material wasn't the concern. It was that the slats were horizontal. Had the slats been vertical, we would have approved it straight through permit. So we put it up and never got the permit. So our suggestion, and I did mention it to the owner before the meeting, and it sounds like they would be open to this compromise. To minimize the appearance of that fence would be to paint the whole thing white. And I think that would be nice with the gate being white as well. It would take the kind of impact of this. What color is it now? Is it just raw concrete? It looks like raw concrete, but I think it's actually like a gray paint on it. It's actually, there's no finish on it at all. It is concrete and it's wood textured. So it does, when you look up close, that's why I gave you that one picture, you can see they made it to look like wood. So it does look like, I guess you would say, stressed wood. But I do understand about if we were to paint it white, that it would maybe, yeah, that's, yeah. But I mean, I don't, just my personal thoughts are, I don't think that it, yes, it is, logistically from the city's perspective, it does pose some issues with just how it was installed. I don't really think it's that visually intrusive. No, it's very, I love it. Yeah, I mean, I think it, it adds a little bit of a contrast as well. And the sound barrier. Sorry, but right now they're in board discussion. So unless they specifically ask a question. Okay, I apologize. It's okay, thank you. And, and being on a corner lot on somewhat busy streets that are really only getting busier, you know, it does add some security. And for the way, for the way that you live and use the property, it is somewhat necessary to have that type of solid structure fence there from what you're saying. So I, I see no problem with the material and I think painting it white will, will only make it better. What was the issue with the stucco? Because aren't, was there an issue with the stucco or no? So the main thing is we're going on record at the meeting that everybody understands what the expectation is for the exterior of this house. And it's got an extremely, this is, I think the only house that I think in all of our historic districts, I think we said might be one of a few because I may have missed one. Um, but I think this is the only one in any historic district that we have with this level of texture that looks like frosting. Um, and so we've had some other projects where there was miscommunication at a board meeting. And we just want to be really clear on record that the stucco pattern that's existing on the house is to remain and that what goes on the addition can be similar. You know, it shouldn't be flat. It should still have, you know, in fact, if you look at this picture, what's on the right in the foreground is a little more thicker of that frosting look. And what's on the left in the background behind the AC condenser is a little bit less frosting like. So somewhere I think closer to that background there or less. So we just want to be really clear, do not remove the existing stucco pattern on the house. It might take a very skilled stucco contractor or craftsman. And I know there are some around, there are projects you could ask us about, um, where they can execute a similar and appropriate pattern. So we're just going on record. Understood. Okay. Okay. Anyone else on the board? Yeah, I can go. It's a great property. I pass it every day going home and I always look at it. So it's a really wonderful piece of property. It's a very small addition. I don't have any issue with it. I agree with the window suggestions. I actually don't have a problem with the gray fence. I actually think that will, I think if you paint it white, it actually might make it more bright and you might see it more. I don't know if someone has a different thought on that. So I don't mind the gray. It does have the white gate. Is that, what kind of material is the gate? The gate itself is wood. The gate, it's vertical wood that's on there. And I do, I mean, I do agree with, if you wanted me to paint it white, I'd be willing to do that. But I do think the gray kind of, it's muted a little bit. I think it should be consistent, right? Either it's all gray or all white. Okay. So whatever color. I don't mind, I don't think I mind the gray. Maybe the white matches the windows of the white. It's a small detail. I pass it every day and I tell you I never noticed it. Right. It's been there seven years. Yeah. So I'm okay with that. Yeah, I think I'm okay with it. I would just mention I didn't notice the new path that will happen in the back. Right now there's a nice meandering walkway and it looks like that's going to be cut for the addition. And it wasn't drawn in the plan where the new path may go. There's a door, right? So the path should go to the door. There probably should be a path going around. This is just for you to think about because it wasn't noted on the plan. And I think you want to keep some circulation back there. I don't think we need to approve that. I don't know if that has to be permitted either, but maybe it does. Can I ask? I didn't know if I can speak up. Yeah. Do I need to wait? No, go ahead. I don't know how to. Okay. Yeah, they just wanted us to do a demo plan to show what we were going to have to take up to be able to add the addition. And there really weren't a lot of changes except for that pathway comes all the way over. And we are going to cut it. It gives you more permeable area as well, I guess, for the drainage calcs. So we're going to cut it back. It's hard to see where the yard is, but there's a lot of plants. And there's like a big, beautiful thing with a fountain in it where the walkway is. I don't know if I can point on it. But we're going to cut it at that spot. And then once the addition is in place where the door is on the side for the new addition, that will connect to that little walkway that goes right to the front. And I think it is on the survey. Well, there won't be a walkway around the building, though? Not right now, no. Okay. Yeah. And that tree has to come out, right? That tree, yeah. That was removed, oh, my God. It's been a while. Oh, that's not there anymore? It's diseased. I guess it had lightning strike or something on it. But, yeah, that is not there. Well, I'm sure you'll plant in the back very nicely. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of vegetation back there. Yeah, it's pretty nice. Okay. Those are my comments. Anybody else? Okay. Does someone want to make a motion for approval? Sure. I'll make the motion to approve Certificate of Appropriateness HP-623-2026 request for the property located at 714 Northeast 2nd Avenue in the Dell Ida Park Historic District by finding that the request and approval thereof is consistent with the comprehensive plan and meets the criteria set forth in the land development regulations subject to the following conditions, that the applicant and staff collaboratively explore options for the south facade windows and that the applicant paint the fence and or gate to be consistent in color with each other. Okay. Do we have a second? I second. Can we take the roll? Gregory Pitts? Approve. Yep. Benjamin Baffer? Yes. Zach Perdue? Yes. Jake Iliopoulos is absent. Chris Cabezas? Yes. Richard Kassar? Yes. Peter Dwyer? Yes. Motion passes. Let's see. We have a short agenda tonight. That's it. That's it. Can I ask you one question just so I'm clear? So do you want me, would you prefer I paint the fence all white or paint it all gray? We can talk about it offline, but it sounds like you have an option to go either way. Perfect. You can think about what you want. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Thanks for your patience, too. Thank you, guys. You're praising. Thank you. It was a good presentation. Very nice. It's been four years since I sat and I just woke in front of the room. You did great. Thank you. Excellent. So we will go on to our next item. One sec. Sure. Did you copy? Oh, yeah. It's in the other folder. The city. Thank you. So for the record, Michelle Hoyland, Principal Planner with Development Services Department. We are here tonight to review, for the board to review and provide a recommendation on designation of the city cemetery to the local register of historic places. I do have the presentation that I've made to the board before, and I know I've got some that weren't here. So I'm going to do it again, but I might go a little fast, just in the abundance of let's save time and get out of here early. Is it necessary to bring up ex parte, or does it not apply to this? It's legislative, so. Yeah. It's okay. You don't need to. Okay. Ex parte. Yeah. Unless you want to. I think we're good. Okay. So the file I'm entering into the record is 1010-2026, and this is for ordinance number 50-26. All right, so the city cemetery, as I said, this is your review of an ordinance. The city cemetery is located down in the southwest neighborhood, along the west side of southwest 8th Avenue, and on the north side of southwest 10th Street. The cemetery itself is rather large. As you can see here, the area that we're focusing on is outlined in red. So when public notices went out, we noticed everybody within a 500-foot radius of the blue line, because it was just easier to get the mailers that way. But specifically, what's part of the designation is generally the area outlined in red. So it's east of 95 and west of Swinton, and it's almost 30 acres in size. The portion that we're looking at is just under five acres. So to bring us back how we started this effort, in 2022, the city staff asked the city commission, can we submit to the Division of Historical Resources for a grant? For those of you who may not be familiar, the city is a certified local government, CLG. With the state, we hold that classification amongst other cities in the state. And that allows us, as a certified local government, to submit for grants. We can submit every year to the small matching category grant with the state. There are two grants options. You can do 50 and 50, 50,000 and 50,000. And there's actually no match required for these grants. Because we're a CLG, it's essentially free money. So, we've submitted and received grants in other cycles and administered and completed those. This particular year, we asked the commission, who gave us approval, to submit for a $50,000 grant to study the cemetery. And why did we do that? It's in the comprehensive plan that we study the cemetery for potential historic significance. So, not only did we submit and get selected to have this grant, but we were one of the top three projects, the city was. So, the way the grants work is the Florida legislature has a big pot of money. And then, the National Park Service has a small pot of money, which they pick the top three, the National Park Service does, and they fund those. And then, the other larger pot of money from the state of Florida funds maybe 20 to 30 of 80 applicants. So, the city was ranked number three, and that was the first time we had ever ranked that high on a project, which really speaks to the merits of the project itself, not just the application that we prepared. But overall, we ranked six out of 54 at the state level. So, this was a pretty big deal for us. $18,000 of the $50,000 grant was funded by the federal program. So, the next step in the process was, what's the name when we have to advertise for procurement? Procurement. So, RFQ, we had to go through the RFQ process to get a consultant. Like, this is move fast. You get one year to get the money spent the minute it opens up. So, we got it done, brought in Oneida LG2 environmental consultants. Now, remember, this is COVID, right? So, they're working in COVID time. 2023 is when the project started. And what they do is they go out and mobilize, and they start documenting what is on site with the cemetery. So, what you have in your backup is a report from them. That report is actually 1,300 plus pages. And I'll explain to you where the other, you know, 1,200-ish pages are. But what is in the report was, you know, the report's comprised of is the analysis. What did they do? What was their methodology? What's their summary and recommendation for the study? These Florida Master Site File Forms that make up the 1,200 plus files, maps, and photographs. So, this is what their report looks like. A Florida Master Site File Form, or grave forms in this case, were created for every single grave that they recorded. And that's what you're seeing on this map here, the dots. Not only is the form documenting who's there, but there's photographs, the condition of the site, what's the epitaph, what's the birth and death date of the person buried there. So, there's, you know, 1,200 plus documents with those grave forms. The report also contains components touching on the laws and regulations for the National and Local Historic Preservation Program. There are specific field methods. This is very specific when you survey a cemetery. It's not like when we have a historic resource survey of a home where they're essentially walking by or driving by. It's a windshield survey and they're recording, you know, what they see. This was more involved. They also did an expanded history search, which we assisted with. They connected with some of the local funeral homes, as well as the Delray Beach Historical Society, and then provided their recommendations. If you haven't gotten through the whole report, I hope you had already read it. But if you haven't, please take a moment to read through and learn about that history. This was not the city's first cemetery. So, the city's first cemetery was known as Bay Ridge Cemetery and was over on the Barrier Islands, east of the Intracoastal. So, after the pioneers who settled here quickly figured out with hurricane season, which wasn't referred to as hurricane season quite yet, right, that it became almost impossible to live on the Barrier Island, much less bury their dead on the Barrier Island, because there wasn't a bridge. It was like a dumbwaiter system almost, where you had a barge and somebody would pull a rope and the barge would slide across the water. So, whenever they would have funerals, it was very difficult to be bringing a casket and all the people over to Bay Ridge Cemetery. If you look at the original town of Delray Platt, you can actually see Bay Ridge Cemetery as indicated on the Platt map. So, you can see here it was gifted by the Ladies Improvement Association in 1902. So, they very quickly realized this was not the most convenient place to be burying your loved ones on the Barrier Islands. So, the Ladies Improvement Association, through a local land grant with Flagler's Railroad, the East Coast Railway, this parcel of land was gifted to the creation of a new cemetery and was known as Pine Ridge Cemetery. So, we had Bay Ridge and now we've got Pine Ridge. So, that's a long history. It goes back. So, we're talking about a cemetery that's 124 years old, essentially 123 years old. So, these five acres that were donated and an additional two and a half acres that were purchased later became Pine Ridge and we started burying our loved ones here at the cemetery. It's really important to note, and if you read the report, there was also a separate cemetery north of Lake Ida Road in what is the Chevy Chase neighborhood. We all commonly refer to it as Lake Ida neighborhood. That was a black cemetery north. In fact, there was a whole neighborhood over there and once the developer wanted to develop Chevy Chase, the residents and that cemetery were displaced. So, this became the combined cemetery for the entire city. It is segregated, which is not uncommon. What year was that? Did they move it? I don't have... Lake Ida. So, it's in the report to research further, which at the end of this, I'll tell you a little more. We have direction from the city commission based on the consultants' findings in the report to keep going with our research. We have to expand the area, get more anecdotal and oral histories from the people in the community, which I want to talk a little more about, the black community and the funeral route and some different things like that. So, we need to build that history out. We only have a tip of the iceberg, I think, on that. So, the Ladies Improvement Association agreed to deed two acres of the cemetery to the black community if they cleared all five acres of vegetation and created a road at the location chosen by the Ladies Improvement Association. So, a committee was formed and decided that the southern portion was better suited for the white residents and the black community accepted the northern two acres and created a road dividing the sections. This was not uncommon of that time frame and it continued on as a segregated cemetery for many, many years. Here's that town of Lytton, Platt Map, which, you know, I talked already about. This is the location of Bay Ridge right up here, Bay Ridge Cemetery. Along with reports of black bears disturbing graves and a growing population, these were some of the other difficulties in having that cemetery in the barrier island. And there's the Bay Ridge. So, this is probably around, I think it's Lang, maybe. It's south of George Bush and... Oh, in the North Beach area. Yeah, like very close to the North Beach entrance area. So, here's the marker of the 1902 Pine Ridge Cemetery. The Ladies Improvement Association sold plots for $1, single plots, and family plots for $5, collecting some revenue in an effort to maintain the cemetery. The earliest known burial at Pine Ridge is Charlie Myers, a local 12-year-old born on June 16, 1891, who died in 1903. In 1914, the cemetery was transferred in ownership to the city. The city began making attempts to improve the conditions of the grounds and relocate graves that were deteriorated and some neglect that had happened. There's also a very interesting story in here, but I think you should read it for yourself as well. That goes into the detail of the flood event that happened out here. And that is why all of the headstones look shifted in the picture, because they literally shifted in the picture. There was a flood and they all slid. And this is more commonly or more visibly noticeable in the black section, where those tomb markers typically were. So this is a photograph of the cemetery after 1996, it was considered to be an eyesore, and the city worked on improving the cemetery, expanding it, adding more acreage, a mausoleum, an additional entrance, obviously keeping the cemetery in a better condition. This is in the mode, right, when they were out there surveying, so they had all these flags placed. We had to make sure residents didn't come out and take the flags, which actually happened. It was a lot to really kind of protect their ongoing studies, but overall, they documented 1202 burials. Important people that are buried there, Fagan Henry is the city's first black pioneer in the town. He and his wife, Jane Monroe, came from Gadsden County, established their homestead in Delray Beach, purchased land from Flagler. And that same year that they came in 1894 is when Linton came. So if you know the backstory of Delray Beach, Linton came, bought land, and started plaiting property. And then he bought that land from Captain George Gleason, which is the namesake for Gleason Street, which I think is anecdotal but interesting. Do you all know who this is? Obviously, you see her name, right? First mayor. First female mayor. First female mayor. She's over here on the wall. This is Catherine Linkstrong. So Catherine, her father, Henry Link, I'm sorry, he worked with Addison Meisner Industries. His home is actually on the corner of Mr. Dwyer Street at the corner of Dixie Boulevard and 2nd Avenue. And that's where Catherine's family lived. She was very instrumental in the city of Delray Beach in fighting for civil rights for our black residents in the community. Hopefully we can bring Frog Alley forward because we have a nice history about her in that Frog Alley report. But yes, she was the city's first mayor and she fought for equal rights for our black residents at a time that was a very difficult time filled with strife in our city. This is another photograph of her headstone. You can see by these tombstone covers here, if you haven't been out to the cemetery and if it's interesting to you, go walk around and check it out and see some of the names. You'll see Sundees are buried there. Quite a few of our founding fathers in the city are buried in the cemetery. So the consultant recommended a number of things, starting with historic designation and then maintenance efforts, repair efforts. If you all have been following what's happening at the city commission with some residents coming forward or quite a few residents coming forward, I think this plan in concert with the parks and rec plan, there are a lot of things that can be done through the designation. If the property is designated, it would allow the city to seek out grant money to better support the cemetery. I believe it should be signed, should be proper signage through the cemetery with some historical markers, signs telling about history of important residents. Then once you start doing something like that, it encourages field trips, you know, from different groups and grade school all the way up through college of people coming to visit the cemetery. The report is available online. So it's on our website, mydelraybeachfl.com forward slash historic. You can see the report here, but the other thing that's interesting is the individual grave forms we've also linked here. And I'll tell you why this is important on the next slide. We also have the map linked. Is that GIS? So it was part of the consultant's scope, wasn't just to study and document the cemetery, but it was to actually create an interactive GIS map, which they did. It was part of the reason why we selected them was their proposal to create this map. So you can access the map online here and you can click around and click in to see the actual information about each grave and then photographs of the headstone. This is super important for people who are very interested in ancestry and genealogical research and maybe even more important, I think, for the members of our black community, because their history, if they are truly hailed from the United States and the African-American population, their history is only going to go back so far. So for those of you that may or may not know this, when a member of the black community, African-American background goes to do their research and say they hailed from slaves, their family was owned, their family was not identified on the census. So the person that was identified was the master, and it would just say black female with the age, male female with the age. 90% of the time, these people were not identified by name. So there is a hard stop in the history for a lot of people, which is really, I think, disappointing. But at least this potentially lets research be completed. And you can see here the one I've highlighted is Robinson, which was an important member of the Pioneer community to Northwest neighborhood. So we think this is an important piece of history that needs to be shared. I have spoken with some members of the community who have asked if we can connect with the Palm Beach Genealogical Society and some other groups to make sure that they're aware of this resource so it can open up to other people who maybe have moved away from Delray Beach. Benefits of preservation are education, cultural, obviously aesthetic. Heritage tourism is a huge thing for cemeteries. Because people love to come visit cemeteries. So as outlined in your staff report, I'm going to move quickly through this. Are the procedures in our code to move forward with a historic designation? So this is the first step, which is the public hearing before your board, the Historic Preservation Board. The findings required for any of these approvals, which are done as an LDR text amendment, because the local register of historic places is housed in the city's LDRs, we have to do a text amendment to add this as another site to the local register. So the city commission for an LDR amendment has to find that the request is consistent with the comprehensive plan and that it furthers any implementation of an adopted neighborhood plan, if applicable. We are working with neighborhood and community services who have said they don't believe there are any active neighborhood associations in this area, but that is something that we're going to actively make sure we dot that I. And again, we did send public notice to everybody within a 500 foot radius of the property. So the period of significance is 1902 to 1974. What that means is that is the time that it's significant. And we came up through 74 because the time the report was done, that would have been 50 years or older, right? As we age and the cemetery ages, that 1974 date can extend forward. The consultant also suggested listing on the National Register of Historic Places, which the city commission accepted and provided direction for us to proceed with national. We just had a webinar with the state of Florida last week regarding national register listings. And given the amount of work that's involved for a national register listing, it's staff's recommendation that we maybe hire the consultant to complete the second phase research part and then do the national register listing because it is an effort to do a national register listing. If we do it the other way around, we're doing the national register listing twice. So that is more of an honorary designation. I think we've got maybe commission. We need them to give us some direction on how to proceed. So the consultant utilized the requirements of the National Park Service for national register as the qualifications, which you can see here. But it's also important to note the city has its own qualifications, and these are the criteria for designation. They're very similar, but somewhat inversed in how they're written, 1, 2, 3, 4, whatever. But essentially what we're looking at is, are you qualifying because there's architecture or an individual associated with the site or some type of social, environmental, or circumstance that occurred in the community at the time. So the consultant has determined, and there's secondary qualifications or criteria if you're a cemetery per the National Park Service that make you eligible. So all these words, lots of words, I'm sorry. It's a lot to say and read, but the bottom line is, it is, it qualifies. It qualifies under the National Park Service criteria and under the city LDR criteria for, for designation. These are the city comprehensive plan, goals, objectives, and policies. I apologize, but the very last one, 1, 6, 6, should actually be 1, 5, 6. So it was a little error in the staff report. But essentially the goal here is to maintain and increase the amount of historically designated properties in the city. And specifically when the Always Del Rey comp plan was written, the goal was to survey the cemetery. So way back then in 2020 and earlier, that was something the community really wanted to see happen. And so we're excited to have been able to bring that forward. This is a look at the draft ordinance that's moving through the process right now. Here's our next steps. If you approve tonight, that green checkmark brings us past number one. Number two is the planning and zoning boards review in a week or so. And then it would progress on to city commission in December for first reading and second reading in January through the standard ordinance adoption procedures. So that is my presentation. Thank you. Thank you very much. And we should recognize public comment on this one. Is there anyone from the public who would like to speak? And we have Roger Cope. Please state your name and address. Chairman Dwyer and board for the record, Roger Cope, Cope Architects, Inc., 701 Southeast First Street in the National Marina Historic District. I'm not here on behalf of myself. I'm here on behalf of the Preservation Trust of Delray Beach, which is a not-for-profit 501c3 organization who is promoting historic preservation and any form possible concentrations on the built environment and archaeological sites and everything in between. And we wholeheartedly agree with Michelle and her wonderful report and pushing this item forward. And we're here. We've been here for a couple of years promoting it. And we're going to remain here for another 124 years, if that's what it takes. And we wrote a resolution that we're going to present to the city commission. And we emailed it to everybody. Hopefully, you all got it. But in case you didn't, if you could give me the pleasure of a couple minutes and I'll read it. I only have 10 whereases and a couple of other little quick things at the end. But this is a resolution of the Delray Beach Preservation Trust is urging the city of Delray Beach to list the Memorial Garden Cemetery on the local register of historic places. Whereas, the northeast section of the memorial gardens municipal cemetery dates back to the early 1900s and is the final resting place for many of Delray Beach's founding residents, both black and white. Whereas, the city needs to protect and preserve our historic spaces for future generations to appreciate. And whereas, the city has promoted and lauded the cemetery for the historic significance in news releases and other media. Whereas, our own city manager wrote, quote, generations of families are connected to this cemetery, memorialized there, and are part of the story of how our city and community was built. We have a responsibility to understand that history, honor it, and make sure that important resources, this important resource is managed appropriately and for generations to come, end quote. Whereas, a consultant report dated August of 2024 concluded that the historic section has been improperly maintained and that graveyard management could be improved dramatically. Whereas, the report also determined that the historic northeast section of the cemetery was a significant reflection of the history of the settlers of the city, Delray Beach, of course. Whereas, the survey team found that the section was eligible for inclusion on the National Register of Historic Places, meeting four distinct criteria within that review process. And then, whereas, studies have shown that historic designation generates heritage tourism in our town, so visitors and residents alike can learn the history of the city, and I'm almost finished. Whereas, the city should do everything in its power to honor and respect the final resting places of our founders. Whereas, the Delray Beach Preservation Trust, a registered 501c3 would volunteer to help in any way possible, and as the city fits, to carry this onward. Now, therefore, the trust urges the city, the city commission, to post-haste direct staff to prepare an application to list the northeast section of the cemetery on the local register of historic places, which is the first step prior to national designation, as Michelle concluded. And finally, be it further resolved that the city of Delray Beach Commission unanimously support the designation to the local register, as well as unanimously supporting designation to the National Register of Historic Places. This is penned, authored, and signed by the president of the Preservation Trust, which is a price patent endorsed by the board of directors, and I will go on record as saying we'll offer pro bono architectural services should the city ever require a structure to be built on the property, whether storage or otherwise. Otherwise, we are so excited about this, we want to endorse every aspect of it, and we think this is the beginning of the designation of the entire cemetery, so this may be the first piece of it, and we'll assist the city in any way possible to write a designation for the next piece, and hopefully it won't be another 124 years. But thank you very much. Thank you, Roger. So you have a public comment, George Long, 46 North Swinton Avenue, there's everything good about this. Thank you. Thank you, George. All right, Michelle, any cross-examination? I don't think we need that. Yeah, you don't need to do that for this. I didn't think so. But I would like to say thank you to the Delray Beach Preservation Trust for their unwavering support of this project. I would like to see. I don't know if that's the older resolution that you guys had written before, if it's newer, but I'd love to be able to see a copy of it when you have a chance so we can include it in the file. So we do have alternative actions for you once you're done in discussion. Okay. Terrific project. Thank you very much. I'm in full support. I don't see how we can't be. Thank you. I'm curious about the red line was drawn because of how it was originally platted, I suppose, or how the original property was designated. Yeah, so it's an irregular shape, right? Yeah, but it looks like, you know, the graves didn't reflect property designation, and so we've got, like, that line kind of cuts through. That's phase two. So let's do some people's plots. Yeah, so definitely that's the phase two portion, right? So this is the historic boundary of the original cemetery. And I think what would be, what the consultant was saying is to designate this entire area or an area that maybe comes up and jogs over to here, right? So there is a jog. This here was in the survey area, but they didn't, I don't think, get that far. So there needs to be a phase two. Essentially, $50,000 didn't go far enough, right, for what they needed to do. The other thing I want to just cover really quick, I know you're in board discussion, so if you want to stop me and ask your questions, I can write mine down. No? You okay? So in speaking with different members of the community, people who live in the northwest-southwest neighborhood and Charlene Farrington, I've heard about the historic funeral route that would happen. So when somebody would pass away, the procession would come down fourth. So, you know, fourth is, I always attribute that to the backside of the water treatment facility when I'm heading to Starbucks. That's fourth. Eighth is the one that goes directly along the cemetery. But right here, seventh, it comes right into the entrance of the cemetery. So the procession would come down fourth and across seventh. And I've heard, it's anecdotal, I haven't been able to get the history recorded, an oral history, but everybody would come out of their home and pay respects, and it was a known funeral route. So there's a lot of additional history, Mr. Baffer, that needs to be documented in the phase two piece, not just extending the boundary of the study area, but the red is the historic cemetery, and the consultant studied everything in the blue area. So it's a mix of these two. I don't have a legal description for you, per se, but this area here, we did not have cemeteries marked, because I believe this is the general area where the new mausoleum is going. So it's this kind of squared-off piece right here, which we call the historic section. This is still an active cemetery? Like, there are people who are buried there now? Yeah, there's a mausoleum. Did we know if that got approved? They came through the process, the city did, to build a new mausoleum on the property. And I don't know if you've been watching some of the city commission meetings and hearing the discussion and public comments, and I'm going to say that it's discussion, but there are people who are very upset, and, you know, I understand why they're upset, because there's some issues with their ownership of their burials and whatnot. So this is an active cemetery, yes. Does that answer your question? I'm somewhat of a place nerd, if you will, like malls, shopping centers, downtowns, cemeteries kind of really interest me. So wherever I go, I try to visit one of them, and walking through a cemetery, especially in a new city, is really interesting to me. Not in a morbid way, but just in a more of a historical way. And you really get a feel for who the people of the city are, especially an older section of the cemetery. And walking through this cemetery, which I've done a couple times, is really interesting. To just look at some of the graves, and especially the ones that are older and, you know, require a little bit of effort to see the dates and see who is there and understand how old they were and who they were, is really interesting. So I think it's really important that we do, as stewards of this process, or at least the first part of stewards of this process for the city, I think it's very important that we preserve as much as we can, and especially this being such an integral part to the city's history. So I'm in full support of it, and I think it's a great addition to the city's historic properties list and register, and going as far to the national as well. Yeah, I'm in full support. I commend you guys for the work that you guys have put in. I know it's been going on since, what, 2022 is when you started this? Yeah. So long time coming, and I hope you get the second phase as well. Thank you. Definitely in favor, and I like the idea of providing, you know, historical signage to enable people to, you know, take consideration of what they're going through, what's there. Yeah. Yeah, signage would be key, I think, for, you know, sometimes schools want to bring kids through a cemetery and teach them about their forefathers. Signage, interpretive signage would help the teachers or administrators that would be doing that. Also, just to add, from the signage perspective and, you know, again, commending, echoing the words of fellow board members, commending you and staff on the work that's gone into this and the effort. It's really great. But I've noticed that a lot of, we have had, post-COVID, a lot of new residents to the city, and a lot of them are very invested in learning about their city and learning about the history and actually taking part in it, whether it's just shopping in some of our local stores or eating in local restaurants and really spending time in the city. So, again, understanding the history of the city, and this is such an integral part of it. The signage aspect is really key, and whatever the historic designation can provide for that is really important. So, again, full support. Thank you. There is an opportunity to submit. I would have to have my director's approval and the city commission's approval, but to submit for, you know, what the historical markers are. You see those around town. They're, like, navy blue with writing on them on a silver pole. We could submit grant requests to have one, two, as many as we'd ask for, for here. They do take time to get them when you go through the grant request, but we could submit for those as well. There's, you know, opportunities to get that signage moving quicker. I have a question. We have five historic neighborhoods, right? Would this become the sixth? No. So it's a great question. Our local register of historic places is stored in LDR Section 4.5.1. So if you're ever in there, you're usually looking at 4.6.16, I'm sure. Yep. It's 4.5.1.I. There are 40, are we at 43 or 45? 45. So we have 45 individual listings, five of which are historic districts, 40 sites. And when you think of an individually designated site, think the Colony Hotel. That's a site. The Sandaway House is an individually designated site. So this would become a site, not a district. And then would it ever come back to us for any, if they wanted to do improvements or signage, it would all have to be approved by the board? Yeah. I mean, if it was in the boundary that we're identifying. So if it's like the mausoleum that's happening and say that that mausoleum was down here, right, that's not going to come before the board. That's probably going to go through SPRAB or maybe we would give you an update that something came through. So it would only be if something was happening within the boundary of the historic section would it come to this board. So it seems that there's no reason not to designate the whole cemetery historic on the local register. So I know it's a big process. We asked the consultant that same question. And the way the national standards work, which I had, I think, in later slides. I think you explained a little bit about how you need the four triggers. Criteria. Criteria. Criteria. Criteria. And then there's the additional criteria for cemeteries specifically. And then there's that 50 years or older threshold. So we've got people that were buried out there last week. You know, it's really the focus. In the expanded area. The expanded area and the secondary part of the research is where we could potentially make it bigger. But I doubt it's going to be the whole boundary of the cemetery as actually the historic site. so that would be something i'd want a consultant to advise us on um but it is historic the section where people were buried in the south end is not may not be this qualified yeah it would meet it on age it depends that's why i want the consultant to be because if you if you read in the report here the national register the federal program um has a specific criteria for cemeteries so they must meet those certain criteria in the national register um those criterion guidelines are in bulletin 41 which is an additional support document that helps preservationists understand how to do it so i um i don't know that we could there wasn't a clear path i don't know that we could do it with what we have right now but it's possible with the second phase of the research reports and more research they need to do it they they stayed in the blue square right essentially so that's where they stayed in that blue boundary i wanted them to go farther and they said phase two more money yes which i understand these people are not from here so they came from out of town i see jacksonville somewhere on the west coast of florida as well so they their organization has folks spread out they were a very professional group to deal with so yeah when you presented last time we did the same thing we made a motion to approve or was that just a presentation and we didn't make any motions so i think you gave a consensus for us to move forward with the designation we then presented to city commission who then also gave us consensus to move forward with designation it did not happen immediately because we were told to work on atlantic avenue so sites shifted and then there was the golf course and so we shifted over there and we also had frog alley so there was a lot happening at the time and this i think was more of a sure thing um that we didn't delve into this one because we were working on others alongside of our other tasks um so we've had you know renewed investment in this from the city commission to say let's let's get this moving so we wanted to bring it forward as fast as we could great thank you yeah are we ready yeah i think we're ready if someone wants to bring a motion forward yeah i can thank you chris so i move i make a motion to move a recommendation of approval to the city commission that delray beach memorial gardens municipal cemetery hp dash 1010-2026 located at 800 southwest 8th avenue be listed in the local register of historic places by amend the land development regulations ldr section 4.5.1i by finding that the request is consistent with the comprehensive plan and meets the criteria set forth in the land development regulations we have a second uh second gregory pitts uh yes benjamin baffer yes zach perdole yes jake liopolis is absent chris kabasis yes richard casser yes peter dwyer yes okay that was very good thank you thank you everybody yes thank you we're excited all right so my reports and comments we can slide right through and get out of here okay like at 6 30 maybe um so at your seats you have the upcoming year's schedule here so i would suggest plugging these into your calendar um and keep us posted if there's any summer plans or vacations or anything like that in advance if you know that you're not going to be here in the off chance that we would have a you know a few of you out we wouldn't want to not have a quorum and have the applicant waiting for a board meeting we can't have so just keep us surprised um the other thing is the training that i sent out i sent another email yesterday because i heard from a few of you that the state training was not accessible so i reached out to the state of florida and got a new link and i sent that yesterday um so if you could get that done by next month but i've heard from most of you that you've gotten the um training completed um you know this is really defensible decision making is what's going to come through the state's presentation to you which you know any questions you have you want to take 30 minutes or an hour we are happy to set time aside whether it's during the work day or even if it were to be after five if some of you need that accommodation to go over any questions that you have and how a board member is making a determination on a project or anything like that so we are here to help support you so that you feel really confident in your decision making as board members but yes if you could please get that state training done thank you for letting me know that the link it works for us but i don't know if somebody if you can't get it to work let me know right away so i can reach out to the state again i think that's all i have do you have anything no i think we're good thank you thank you any other questions from the board yeah did we lose any historic resources in the marina we are going out for a site inspection on the 12th which is next week um we will know more after that site inspection with the chief building official yeah this has been devastating yeah the pictures were very dramatic yeah i yeah i didn't see the drone okay on instagram yeah i um you know the the day i saw that drone footage i went home and sat in my house and just thought i don't know if this was coming inside people's homes i just can't imagine how devastating that must be um to have water intrusion on the inside of your home and your furniture and your finishes and your wood floors and whatever take damage and your whole life get upended um i do know that the i reached out to the public works director and the marina project the marine way project for the storm wall or the sea wall is on for city commission this month and i believe work begins on that part of it this month so some folks don't know that you know it's been a phased project so some things are completed and it's kind of marching north um i just never anticipated it would be such a high king tide with the rains that we had and it just makes me want to step back and part the red sea like i wish i had that power to protect these homes there are for people who you may speak to or who are listening there are regulations on the city's website and we've talked about them and had trainings on them before in fact that's the second training on your list um which provide methods of flood resiliency for homeowners and that is on our website i have you know had some discussions internally about creating a brochure um so anybody that's new we maybe send out a mailer to a new property owner to say hey you're in a flood zone you're also historic and here's the resources you have available to you here's the insurance agencies that are available to you through the national park service because that exists too so we do a lot to educate our new homeowners when we get them but we don't always get everyone not everyone's coming through to do a pre-app to come before hpb with a thousand square foot addition you know um but i just don't know that even the methods that are in that document are even enough to combat what just happened i think the only method is vertical elevation for something like what just happened i don't think a moat being dug around your house or any other approach is really going to be as effective as moving the house up and out of the the flood plain so yeah we're we're devastated we've seen a lot of pictures and heard from residents and doing what we can to provide support so the next meeting is january 6th yes no december sorry i think where is this is the 2027 that's next year we've got one more meeting in in the 26th time frame so it's so we are almost done with 26 i can't believe it all right we'll move to adjourn the meeting then thank you everybody thank you so much appreciate your time thank you there we are that's great