Historic Preservation Board on 2025-10-15 5:01 PM - Oct 15, 2025

there we go we're going to call this meeting to order of the dollary beach historic preservation board of meeting of october 15th 2025. please take the roll chris cabezas here benjamin baffer here vlad dimentrescu is absent richard castor is absent peter dwyer is absent carol perez here john miller here uh any changes to the agenda this evening nope nope no changes i'm sorry you asked me that in general um i do have one question so i saw the email about the training and i assumed it was a little next time so there's two it's on the agenda yeah i saw yeah so there's two trainings there's one this month and then next month are the flood adaptation standards okay um since we have so many board members absent tonight would it be can go back and watch it okay and then if they have questions they can bring i've already emailed one of the board members that that if there's questions they can bring those questions in november since we'll be doing a training then too okay yeah good thought i thought of it too and i think we just need to push through okay um so no move no changes to the agenda can we get an approval i'll make a motion to approve second can we do all in favor you can all in favor uh say aye aye opposed okay um moving on to minutes we have three groups of minutes here june 4th july 2nd and september 17th um i believe we need to make motion separately on these before we do um britney i did not get that one month revised which month was it remember if it was june or july we were talking about june 4th yeah so on the june set of minutes there is mention to emails that were sent in in regards to one of the projects and we're going to strike that remove that off the minutes because we can't put emails as public comment i didn't get a chance to update it before it went out so okay um that one change if if your motion could just note that okay i i you don't actually have to do them all separately if you want to just say with approving all of the minutes on the agenda with the change to the june minutes as as stated by michelle okay i mean i looked them over i didn't see anything i'll make a motion to approve all three agenda items um with the condition of the june 4th having the email stricken second okay we have mosha second any discussion britney or actually let's just do a all in favor say aye aye aye aye motion carries okay swearing into the public uh such as it is tonight uh if there's any members of the public who would like to speak on any item tonight please stand up and be sworn in raise your right hand by the authority vested in me as the notary in the state of florida do you swear to affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth okay uh comments from the public if any member of the public would like to speak uh to the board on any item which is not on the agenda tonight now's the time to do so seeing none we're going to move on to item seven quasi judicial hearings and i'm going to read the rules this hearing shall be conducted in accordance with the city of delray beaches quasi judicial rules the applicant and the city shall be permitted to present their case the public shall be allowed to speak for three minutes or for a maximum of six minutes if the person represents an organization or a group of people who are present but agree not to speak the city commission board members staff and the applicant may be allowed to cross-examine a witness the city or the applicant or the applicant will be allowed to offer rebuttal testimony the decision to approve or deny an application or appeal may not legally be made upon the personal views as to whether a project is a good project or not nor may a decision be based on the number of citizens who support or oppose a particular project the law requires that all decisions must be made on the basis of whether the project meets requirements of law the comprehensive plan and the land development regulations okay um we're going to move on then to item a certificate of appropriateness hp 117-2025 is there any ex parte communication on this item i've driven past the site none thank you um for the record michelle hewitt planner and i'd like to read into the record um 250 or a court for file number hp 117-2025 for a level one site plan and certificate of appropriateness application just for the record michelle hewitt is now senior planner congratulations mr cook with uh 250 royal court llc i'm here to speak in defense of our application for the installation of stucco in place of wood siding for our commercial non-historically contributing office building as mentioned previously we're looking to replace our decorative siding with stucco as well as update our existing windows with new windows with white frame and gray glass these windows are impact resistant as well as replace failing gutters that are currently existing on the project on the property our objective is to preserve the historical character of the building whilst still improving the overall appearance as well as the durability and quality of the structure as a whole there you can see the the location of the building in regards to the the overall neighborhood the existing conditions of the building are as such currently there is a wooden there is wooden siding in place on the building a permit has previously been filed and work had been completed in to repair the existing wooden siding however even those repairs made only a few years ago have already started to show deterioration so the current proposal is to repair those those damaged segments as well as overall replace the the wooden siding with a new stucco exterior additionally the wooden the doors that are currently in place they're very old a lot of them are very outdated they're inefficient from an energy standpoint as well as several leaks have been detected throughout the property around those those entry points now in a kind of larger context several other uh commercial use buildings in the neighborhood also designated as non-historically contributing within the historical district have already transitioned to a more modern stucco exterior as well as a gray framed window for their exterior property they're shown are the locations of a few buildings the first one located at 205 northeast 5th terrace very lovely exterior very nice building they have a stucco exterior with a relatively modern finish white frame windows and a slight graying on the tint in a similar frame to what we are proposing for our structure as well uh 250 north dixie north dixie uh north dixie boulevard another similar kind of situation commercial use building exterior is stucco with those same kind of gray framed windows that we're additionally proposing and then lastly in the neighborhood itself there's the 230 george bush boulevard property again similar similar similar situation stucco exterior and uh gray fit wall gray windows and doors so it kind of it shows a a precedent in the area of other commercial buildings transitioning from the the wooden siding to a more durable and weathering weather resistant stucco exterior lastly there's this building towards the southern end of the historic neighborhood 241 northeast 4th street another relatively modern looking exterior on on this very nice looking building stucco and again the gray windows to apologies for sounding repetitive so as i mentioned previously the purpose of this of these improvements is to remove is to eliminate the existing issue with the flaking of the siding and the deterioration due to moisture in the air and repeated rain storm weathering other environmental effects that have been negatively impacting the building quite significantly additionally stucco is proven to be much longer lasting more weather resistant and in general it's just a much better exterior finish for uh the florida climate the new windows that we're proposing are going to as i mentioned previously improve energy efficiency as well as temperature retention and interior comfort whilst also being impact resistant again making the building more resistant to severe weather instances and lastly the overall aesthetics of the exterior of the building are likely to improve significantly due to the more uniform appearance of the stucco the more newer less deteriorated appearance of the the exterior windows doors and gutters so here's a rough rendering of what our proposed exterior would look like still relatively similar to the character of the existing building whilst maintaining a new more effective more resistant exterior to the elements and that's the end of my presentation thank you uh staff will do theirs and then if we have any questions we'll come back i just want to make a quick comment that i've said to you guys before like you're not a precedent setting board um you're going to look at every case case by case and um make decisions based on that to the extent that it i allowed it in to the extent that it's relevant to like rhythm of buildings on the streets or something like that but um but it shouldn't be used as as you know evidence of precedent but go ahead once again michelle hewitt senior planner um and this is for a level one site plan and certificate of appropriateness application for 250 rural court here on the screen is an area with the subject property outlined in blue where you can see the location of rural court northeast third avenue and northeast fifth terrace i'm going to go over some brief history on the property and the architect that designed this the subject property was constructed in 1972 by charles e toth at the time he was the property owner and architect the subject property was originally constructed for toth's architectural office it contains an apartment on the first floor and an office on the second floor then in 1977 in addition was constructed the existing structure by toth the subject structure is considered non-contributing to the dell ida park historic district and is expected to be reclassified as a contributing structure with the future resource survey of the district district the mid-century style structure exists in its original design with a flat roof red-framed windows board and batten wood exterior siding and a wood deck on the north side of the structure off himself um was born in pennsylvania in 1927 and moved here in 1963 to delray beach where he is considered an accomplished architect um in the city there have been some alterations throughout the years on this structure most recently on july 10th 2024 staff administratively approved a request for ground level improvements including reconfiguring the parking area installation of a dumpster enclosure new sidewalks and landscape modifications exterior modifications to the existing structure included painting the railings trim and windows in navy color replacing of decking replacing of stairs and moving the existing wall behind the fountain the request before the board today is for the removal of the existing wood siding for the installation of smooth stucco siding installation of white frame aluminum windows after the fact and repainting of the structure here on the screen i have um the structure prior to what's out there today um so this is the front or north elevation where you can see the existing board and batten wood siding um and the red frames the dark red frames that are painted um on the structure and this is what's currently out there today so um they have been replacing the wood siding that's actively what was going on on the site um and you can see the windows that are currently installed the white frame aluminum with the gray glass um and comparatively between the two oops um um the appearance here of this north elevation here's another angle of the front or north elevation it's a little blurry but you can kind of see the overall appearance of the structure with those dark red frames in the wood and then here's what's currently out there today this is the on the left is the before with the red dark red frames and that wood siding and then the current um the wood siding is still currently out there the windows are installed with the gray glass and the white frame aluminum here is the rear on the left the south faces the south elevation again red frames on the left and then those white frames on the right and then this is the side or east elevation uh before on the left and then currently out there today on the right as mentioned previously the request is to uh change the wood siding to a smooth stucco siding painted white paint the structure white and then to utilize a white aluminum frame windows with gray glass going into the staff report here is an excerpt from our secretary of the interior standards for rehabilitation the structure is classified as a non-contributor however it is on the cusp of becoming a contributing structure given its style and association with um charles toth a delray beach architect an alteration to the exterior of this structure namely changing the wood from stuck wood to stucco could have a negative impact upon its historic integrity and here's just a screenshot here where it's not recommended from the secretary of interior standards rehabilitation um where a not recommended approach is replacing um historic wood features um and altering wood features which are important in defining the overall historic character of the building um potentially resulting in the loss of the character going into the budget compatibility standards this section is specifically for the relationship of materials texture and colors um this particular standard indicates that the facade of a building and or hardscaping shall be visually compatible with the predominant materials used in historic buildings and structures within the subject district district where it's specifically recommended to utilize materials that match the old and design color texture and other visual qualities and where possible materials here are two screenshots from our delray beach historic preservation design guidelines regarding sighting on the left is recommended approaches and the main um item here is that replacement should be designed using the existing physical evidence as the pattern so elements are based on the original details going back to the vision compatibility standards again this is for relationship materials textures and colors there is concern with the color of the proposed uh window frames as previously mentioned there was an administrative approval for navy uh window frames and that was considered appropriate because it was still maintaining that dark color painted frames and allowing for some modification um keeping but keeping the same overall um appearance of the the dark color frames um we it is believed that the dark red frames were original to the structure and should be maintained additionally mid-century modern structures would have are commonly seen with um painted or dark colored frames there is also concern with the appearance style of windows the original building permit which you can see in the bottom right shows a mutton for each window which had been retained over the years um up until recently which you saw through the images that i was going through previously and they should be replaced like in kind to maintain the appearance where the proposal is to utilize a single pane and then here is a screenshot here um again from our delray reach historic preservation design guidelines where it's not recommended to change the historic appearance through adding a finish or color that changes the appearance of the frame going to the visual compatibility standard of architectural style the application of a new cycle pattern could create a false sense of historical development by introducing elements definitive of a more modern interpretation of the style thus the board will need to make a determination that the proposed materials and appearance are appropriate for the structure as well as the del ida park historic district here are the secretary of interior standards for rehabilitation and the visual compatibility standards with those two items highlighted that were used to analyze the request and then our certificate of appropriateness findings and that concludes my presentation thank you any members of the public want to comment on this item seeing none um uh mr applicant do you have any rebuttal to staff if you please up at the front i would like to comment that uh these improvements to the exterior of the building are in conjunction with an overall improvement to the larger site of the of the structure which is already permitted to include the improvements of landscaping the addition of new irrigation systems the addition of paver pathways and the expansion of the parking lot and reshaping to improve the current deteriorated condition of the uh of the structure the replacement of the siding would be paramount to completing this effort as many of the landscaping and well many many of the landscaping additions are adjacent to the structure and thus could not be completed without the replacement of these uh of the stucco exterior thank you if we have any questions we'll be sure to come back to you staff any rebuttal i have a few things just to note um the four addresses i know kelly um outlined that there's no precedent setting but i just wanted to address the four addresses that were outlined by the applicant in their presentation 205 northeast fifth terrace used to be owned by the platts um that's mediterranean revival style architecture where stucco would be appropriate on an exterior 250 north dixie boulevard historically has had a stucco exterior 230 george bush bill of art boulevard the hacker building while it does have stucco some of it's an applied stucco so it looks like wood siding in in parts of it and 241 northeast fourth street the dentist office on the corner of lake ida and third is new construction so just those few notes um and then also to clarify something the original building permit it looked like i failed to mention this or michelle and i talked about it and i meant to to note it the bottom windows we believe were operable so if you saw that original building permit um we're not sure if it they were replaced or they're still operable today but you can kind of see that diagonal or that diamond shape dash line at the bottom of each window would have meant that those were operable at the bottom so just a few notes thank you hopper uh i have a question for either staff or the applicant so these windows are obviously installed um were was there a permit so the given for this the applicant came in and got a coa approval to replace the windows and the compromise was navy blue frames that there would still be some character defining element with a dark frame window but then the windows that went in were white frame so those were not intended or approved as white frame they were intended to be navy blue frames but they're not they don't have the muntins on them no so but that was okay as long as the frame was the did the permit show that so the permits currently it's not approved it's currently still in process it was paused once this was the color it was noted that the colors weren't it wasn't going to be painted uh-huh um so don't know what the final so not issued they got it installed so they did it without a permit in hand okay yeah that was one of the questions i had and then secondly this the siding i don't know if it's really board and batten but it's like a it's a pattern it's a grooved pattern in the wood and that was it's t111 and that was common in the 80s and 90s but was that original when this was put in in the 70s yes it originally had a wood siding in a plywood fashion with that pattern to it michelle's going to go to the drawing here you can see in the bottom right hand corner the vertical lines so that's how so charles toth um i know we did a more expansive description of his background and delray beach in the staff report he's notable he's one of our important architects um obviously later than ogren but he came and worked with ogren that was his first job coming to delray beach and then went out on his own and built his office building for himself with an apartment and was kind of common for architects they'd have an apartment where they might spend the night there after a long night's worth of work um so he was very um his architectural style was pretty prominent in the mid-century modern slash contemporary style um based on the timing of his career so these are character defining elements i know it's a tough call on windows that are already installed um so i mean i don't know if you're asking me questions about that but i feel like i just want to know if they if they were installed with a permit to me that makes a difference versus installed without a permit without a permit in hand but you said verbally you were going to approve the or administratively you were going to approve the same exact looking window just new a hurricane proof with the muttons in dark blue yeah that was the admin coa so they came in for the coa and then it's their responsibility to go to get the permit and have the permit in hand and then do the work and what resulted was a white frame but yes navy blue was what was approved okay but were there supposed to be muttons on the new windows yes okay they're supposed to look the same citing um you know they have done some work and repair and i i want to just say this for a moment we're thrilled to see this property coming forward for an update and being occupied by somebody who's actually in the field i believe environmental engineering is civil engineering so it's it's kind of just thrilling to think like here we still have a person in the in the biz almost right um bringing life back to this building um but i think you know is is the white frames as much of a problem that's a board decision but the complete change of the siding if they could even do stucco with a siding look you know simulated stucco siding i could see where the t111 is not going to be anything they can continue with and i don't know that hardy board is something that they're interested in utilizing but it would be nice to be able to see the stucco have some similar pattern to that vertical nature of what's out there now all right um any anything to add before we get into board discussion we're going to move into board discussion thoughts yeah i do think that the vertical patterning is very important to this building's historical nature and i i was thinking the same idea that if the if it was proposed to be stucco with the same look that i would be for that but completely making it flat it takes away really it's one of its few architectural uh big moves so that i think would be more in line with the interior standards um for the windows when i hear it i didn't think it would be that big of a of an issue but when i see the past picture with those red frames and the muttons that also is a very prominent feature and this can be seen from the street this image right here and it's it's kind of a shame that it's it's there's a potential to lose that um how many times do we have this happen right where the the applicant has installed windows before they get the permit and i don't know what the issue is it happens more often than it should um i don't know why that happens i know we shouldn't be thinking about that right we should be thinking about if this came like this would we have would we approve the white aluminum frame or not right and i think in that if in that situation i would have pushed to remain with this care this character um you know there's a lot of things to be considered about i do love this property i love that it's getting renovated it's important you know that it's it's getting renovated so um some things to think about i'd like to hear the other board's members opinions yeah i know this is i agree 100 you said this is not a contributing structure but it is very architecturally significant and it's a very you know very deliberate style from the 70s and 80s that you know the the vertical uh the t111 look is is a big big part of that and to create that in stucco is not that difficult to do that i i think that um you know i i i get that you don't want a wood wood siding on your building i mean we in in this environment stucco actually is a much better you know much better envelope um but i i would i would think that um you know that the applicant should be able to affect the the vertical you know vertical groups within that within the stucco process and i think that would be probably a good way to maintain the the architectural character um as far as the windows go i mean i i have powder coated windows after they've been installed field powder coated them it's not cheap and it's not ideal but it can be done you have to replace the windows you could could bring somebody out to electrostaticum but um that's just it's just frustrating what about the muttons i have such a strong feeling about the months because i i guess because i'm looking for like the vertical you know the lines of horizontals not not so much that that didn't trouble me as much as um you know when when when when this building was designed the you know contrasting color window frames was a real important um thing to to the design you know they wouldn't have done it otherwise can you add muttons on those windows you you can you can apply muttons i mean you can get an aluminum mutton with the adhesive you know glued in and applied in that's not a that's not real real difficult you know you would just be putting a mutton on top of the glass yeah um so i agree with everyone here and i think um the applicant should go back to the original approved um that was staff approved um application and and do it according to what was approved uh as far as the siting goes yeah i think the um the vertical elements very important to the building i don't think that a flat stucco is the way to go um like the examples shown uh you know they were it was new construction that was stucco it was a mediterranean revival it was stucco and probably not a flat stucco it was probably textured stucco but um this building this is you know where the historic preservation board and this is the building and that's how it was designed and meant to it was meant to look like that so that's um i'm not in favor of the changes as presented thank you uh i got a question too so uh it was mentioned gray uh glass so is this within the parameters that we had discussed previously when we said you know gray is okay yep okay great that was one thing i was kind of thrilled about is they're gray so gray would be appropriate for a non-contributor and then um it looks like the board is leaning towards approval of stucco but with the you know uh detail how particular would the board members be would you want to replicate the look exactly like you know 12 or 14 inches or whatever it is between the elements or do you okay with approximating it i would i would say exactly as exact as you can it's not that yeah it's one or the other really it's not going to make that big of a difference but i just wanted to when we somebody crafts a motion i want to be kind of specific so they don't have two vertical lines on each wall and say well there's exactly right and how about with the windows do we want them to recreate the exact mutton um dimensioning i would think so i mean practically speaking i don't know how that i mean like you see here there's there looks like two different thicknesses if it was an open window on the bottom like we were talking um that looks like there's a bigger frame there whereas the top one is a thinner um personally i think if it go back to approximates the look um i mean to me this i mean yeah it's it's a very dramatic modern uh yeah modernized but and and the the impact windows have that thicker frame anyway um which just highlights the difference so very similar yeah yeah it's pretty thick frame on the existing may i ask the applicant a question yes is it aluminum the windows they're aluminum uh sorry you need to come up to the podium thank you sorry richard yeah i believe they're aluminum but i'm not particularly knowledgeable about the uh the construction of the the window frames themselves that's what the approval would need to be for is aluminum if they if we later figured out that they were vinyl they'd have to come back to you because vinyl is not typically approved at the admin level and also one other note that if you were going to craft a motion that was leaning toward a stucco siding you could put in there an option for them that they could do stucco simulated stucco siding in a vertical pattern or hardy board or cementious board so if they found that that was more economical solution they could do either that way i wouldn't have to bring that back for clarification simulated stucco siding with a vertical element or cementious board siding all right my dad was a carpenter and we had an addition to our house that had this exact plywood on it and it rotted out and he stuck it over so of course especially at the bottom yeah exactly so it was mentioned that a full site plan with landscape plan was going to happen on this property that was approved at the admin level okay so it was reconfiguration of parking landscaping walkways the dumpster the decking there was a little patio decking up first and second floor thanks michelle um that were all part of that approval so that was allowed to be done administratively what triggers it to come in front of us for that type of approval if they were doing um the parking modification wouldn't because that's hardscape that wouldn't they were doing major renovations with trees maybe but we've modified the code now to make that simpler for applicants so i don't i don't know that that would come before you because i thought we saw commercial landscape plans right we don't see single family we see commercial you don't see everything though if it's minor there's the chapter two updates that occurred a year or two ago gave some admin approval for landscaping to staff um so unless it was some type of major change it wouldn't come before you i would have liked to have seen it it's coming before you now because of the architectural elevation change it looks major yeah i would have liked to have seen the landscape plan on this just to see what they're you know what they're proposing to see if it maintains like a historical nature to that design so you know we'll stick to what staff thinks on that but uh maybe in the future if you have if it can go either way and you have two landscape architects up here might be good to i understand we we're trying to make historic as simple as possible yeah understood understood all right to that end um is there anybody wants to make a motion on this or we have any other comments just question the color so the proposed color is white is that i think staff is proposing blue the are you asking about the siding the siding color of the siding michelle is is it white yeah it's the white for the siding yeah white on white is that the right color what do you mean i mean is it white or is it off white or it's another proposing white but what was the original color do we know it maybe the applicant wants to answer that to my knowledge the uh for as long as i have been aware of the building it has been this color our plan is to repaint it in a very similar color if not identical so not white because this is almost like a grayish beige this look like a gray beige yeah grayish i will say in person it does look more white it could just be the lighting of the photo can you go the white frame window picture it's very very pale beige maybe if you see the the other side without the windows on it now the uh the back side that side see it it is a very plain white color generally i always thought it was like a white gray i remember this building back from the 80s a friend of mine's father had an office in here and it was more of a brown back then but you know things change paints change over time so and that would we could approve at admin so the neutral color palettes we tend to admin approve we just proved pink going up on swinton avenue last time so uh i saw that today we're excited for that all right uh so oh but so we're gonna say the the color will be admin approved because on here it says white right with right and if they change it potentially could be admin if it's more bold we bring it back to you no they don't need to make any change to no change you don't have to change the color because white or color neutral palette would be admin approved all right well don't we want like isn't it going back to blue i don't understand the windows frame oh you're talking about the i was talking about the field color the oh you're oh okay because i was just looking at these pictures that didn't really look white you know understood sorry yeah okay all right so i'm going to make a motion to approve the certificate of appropriateness hp-117-2025 and level one site plan application for the property located at 250 royal court delighta park historic district by finding that the request and approval thereof is consistent with the comprehensive plan that meets the criteria set forth in the land development regulations subject to the following conditions that the stucco siding will be a simulated will simulate the vertical elements of the existing facade and that the windows will be as previously administratively approved with the dark blue frames and mutton patterns that are existing that's it is there a second i'll second for discussion um does that sound good and the mutton patterns that are existing you mean in this previous the previous yes so the because they're not existing right you're right so just want to make sure um as we're you could say as we're as we're previously approved or previously yeah yes we understand what you mean and then i don't know if you wanted to mention michelle had also mentioned that you could give them you know options of materials to use um as long as it had that vertical pattern i don't know if the board had consensus for that or not think of a vertical a vertical hardy board siding okay vertical plank siding yeah with that option as well perfect who seconded carol carol thank you all right britney key please take the roll chris cabezas yes benjamin baffer yes glad dumitrescu is absent richard cassers absent peter dwyer is absent carol perez yes john miller yes okay all right um so that's it for the quasi-judicial items uh legislative items anything no okay uh we have nine presentations so we have training training don't need training george i already know this you should be trained no i don't really but can you is it can you look at it on the you can watch it on tv yeah yeah how long does this training last maybe an hour oh he's out thanks for coming have a good night save me a beer okay um so every so often we like to take an opportunity to provide the board with training um particularly when there's newer board members or updates that are happening um with the code so this is a two-part series uh the next training i'll tell you a little bit more about at the end but that's at our next meeting on november 5th for the public who might be listening and want to watch the next training it will be um flood adaptation standards and maybe a few other things sprinkled in as well and any questions um some of you i think have all received binders from us upon starting your time as a board member those are helpful binders to look back on and we're going to cover a lot of that information tonight and if you want to bring your binders next time you know if you have any questions or if you haven't brought them tonight um for note taking or anything like that they're very helpful i'm sorry the way i read the email i thought it was next time was the uh training i did see that kelly and i talked about that okay my apologies for not saying this and next time but it is on the board agenda okay so what is historic preservation um this information is taken from the national park service essentially it's a conversation um that we have with our past about our future and our present uh provides us opportunities to ask what's important about this the history of our city or our state or country and what parts of that past can we preserve for the future so this board is largely focused on preserving the built environment um but it's an important way to our to transmit to future uh generations or current generations what happened in our history and why is that important sometimes it's the built environment that tells that story like banker's row where you can see the grandeur of the 1920s on the west side of the street the mediterranean revival style of architecture to the simplicity of the post-war recovery effort and that's impact on architecture on the east side of the road with the banker's row mackle cottages so there's very you know a lot of facets it's these stories that we want to help to help tell um sometimes historic preservation involves celebrating events people places ideas that we're proud of and other times it's involves recognizing moments in our history that can be painful or uncomfortable to remember does anyone know who this is call out if you do marjorie stoneman douglas yes so this is marjorie stoneman douglas who's credited with um being a journalist and environmentalist helping to defend and protect the florida everglades so we celebrate um her work and it's a historic pastime um thinking about what we're left with in the built environment today but a painful thing is her association with marjorie stoneman douglas school um where was the country's most devastating um school shooting mass shooting that had occurred and that's a very painful memory to to evoke um but it's important to tell that story for future generations and and continuing many people are continuing to tell that story um can you think of any of examples each of you maybe you can give one example each of a happy or celebrated moment in our history or something that might be uncomfortable or painful to remember delray specific no can be the country well delray specific we still have remnants of a wall that segregated our our city right when when delray was segregated in a long lake idaho there's a wall and i think parts of it still still remain that's true yeah i think of i guess i think of uh miami beach with the art deco architecture and how that was saved because it was all getting knocked down great example so many but i mean a painful one would be uh james mcbride he was a teenager who drowned off delray beach because he was black and he couldn't swim on delray beach where it was guarded so he had to swim on unguarded beach on mother's day and i'd say any war at all good segue um so this part of my presentation is taken in peace um to from the presentation we did we've done a few at atlantic high school trying to encourage our young folks in the community to get interested in planning zoning and historic preservation so this was um something we talked about with the the students at atlantic high school and this is most of them if not every single one of them this is before their time i was pregnant with my daughter in 2001 when this occurred so these kids were that age or younger so they didn't experience this they've only heard about it and what it meant and shared the stories and we talked and you know where were you type of thing for us explaining where were you and where was i that day and i remember exactly where i was here at the city working and watched the second plane hit the tower so this is a painful piece of history in in this country um but we are celebrating those who fought for us on that day and recovered um and you know ran towards the fire basically with a memorial i have not personally been to the memorial but i've studied it and read about it so this is a something that we're celebrating um the memory of those who were lost on that day so when did historic preservation start um there were efforts that began prior to the official adopting of legislation of 1966 for the national historic preservation act but does anyone know what this picture is of grand central penn station um so this building uh was raised to make way for madison square garden um it was air rights challenge and you know now today they're talking about replacing right madison square garden i thought this picture was interesting because the sign on the front which it's a bit of sign littering right but the sign on the front happens to say make more of madison square garden and how amazing would that have benefit had said make more of penn station i don't know madison square garden has become iconic in itself it has yeah in the time frame from 1960s forward um so that that act is the cornerstone of federal historic preservation efforts and is what led us to having historic preservation ordinance in delray beach um the impetus behind historic preservation delray beach and john probably knows this best in his work with the historical society and living here um old school square was shuttered and fenced the school district uh walked from the property i hesitate to say the word abandoned because i don't think that the intent was to abandon it but they closed the site and here was this property in the middle of our downtown core at the crossroads of atlantic and swinton and it was being discussed of what to do with that site and there was discussions of department store like kmart or a bowling alley um and the community came together and really rallied around old school square and the city and said we don't want to see that happen um so they worked hard to study our resources in the late mid to late 80s and the delray ordinance was adopted 1387 in march of 1987 which created our land development regulations it created you our board the local register of historic places you can go on our website and see the board minutes all the way back to the first board which is is on our website um they're not very long they're typically a page or two but as the years go on they they get more interesting and then old school square was purchased by the city from the school district there's a deed restriction on the property that the it be used for educational or cultural purposes i believe and the city invested in the community and they invested in the effort um for historic preservation so we're very lucky that we were able to save this very important um several structures of of architecture from the 20s um the teens and 20s and and here's this is a little bit older of a picture but it's still very current amazing what we've been able to to do with this facility and how this has become um something that's completely changed our downtown at that same time the comprehensive plan from the 80s and then in the 90s identified that there was to be a revitalization of the downtown basically historic preservation set the stage it was built on the back of historic preservation protecting local resources cultural resources northeast second avenue or pineapple grove way was officially adopted as our main street through the main street america program which is also a historic preservation program through the state of florida so this information i'll cover a little bit more as as we go on but this is taken directly from the always delray comprehensive plan so i encourage you if you haven't opened that document it's kind of an interesting read and it's not super long there's some important pieces there so what's the purpose of the board the purpose of the board i joke that we need that say to protect and preserve um but that really is the the role of the board is to foster and promote um recognition and preservation protection enhancement of our if our historic resources and our built environment um that the board you all through our department the division of development services um shall also promote and i'm just reading certain functional aesthetic goals objectives and policies in our comp plan particularly the historic preservation element which that's a new element as of 2020 we never had a dedicated element prior to that time um as it protection as it relates to the preservation of our historic resources the board reviews all matters pertaining to coa requests for property sites structures located within districts or on individually designated properties and as i get through all of the um we touch on so many different records at the city we come across things and i kind of try to save them and earmark them to show you someday and now i get to kind of show you there's um an inventory photograph inventory of some properties which are all in old school square and you can see the one on the top is one of those photographs in the 80s there was decline happening in our country the economy was not in a great position um and our downtown and our neighborhood surrounding really were in in a state of decline and disrepair this is dada's you can see that the um i forget the name of the restaurant that it was before damiano's that both of those businesses have been blessed with really amazing chefs and that's kind of an institution those businesses were but it's the investment and the protection of that structure um that you see on the bottom there that it's it's kind of famed people say where do you eat in delray dada's always comes up so this board is composed of seven board members five of you are required to be um and this recently was revised in our code to align with the national park service and state of florida requirements um for professions so at least five of you need to be from the list on the left the remaining two seats can be laypersons with knowledge or experience or even folks laypersons who own property in historic districts these are all adopted as we are a certified local government you'll hear me talk about that a little bit more as we go on this evening but this is our mix so our two laypersons are john miller and richard cassar and we're really blessed that both of them have i think breadth of experience john with historic preservation for many years pioneer family in delray beach mr cassar i believe has real estate and development experience but we rely upon the professions um that you're under you're going to understand the complexities that we're bringing forward with these projects and these these staff reports and that's why you're here is because you're on the edge of understanding what we're working with we make a up a team of three michelle katharina and i in the staff so what does the board see application wise coas site plans variances waivers landscape plans designations ldr amendments conditional uses rezonings comp plans concept plan reviews it's a very long list um you typically see mostly coas for residential that's a lot of what you see but we are um you know obviously working on the daily our team is on a project that's been very long running and complicated sunday village so behind the scenes we're not just working on these we're also working on other things like grants permits pardon me so the picture on the top here is again from the 1980s of 202 north swinton and how wonderful that historic preservation saw that this building was retained in place and look at the investment that the owner has made you all saw this recently come through and you approved this these are the different types of things we're doing coas for additions new construction fencing parking carports swimming pools it's a very long list i'm going to move through this quickly we can come back if you have questions but these are technically the board duties taken right from the code the duties and actions so you have quite a bit of approval authority because you are a final stop for applicants they don't need to for most applications they don't need to go on to a commission to get approval you grant approval so you're acting on those applications that we're bringing forward the board for these improvements the board can also make nominations for a historic designation to the local register the national register working with us to increase public awareness it's a very long list of responsibilities you also make recommendations to the planning and zoning board on ldr amendments conditional uses level four site plans the picture on the right is the delray beach historical society there have been changes obviously positioning and buildings on that site are not exactly today as they once were but important to show you the notes i didn't include but the notes in the document for this photograph were something like disbelief with how awful the property was being maintained um not owned by the city or the delray beach historical society then you also make recommendations to the city commission on occasion so delray beach has a total of 10 000 plus acres 15.89 square miles and of that historically the historic areas are 174 acres approximately 575 properties i'm showing you a property here not in a historic district but on the edge of and it's an original building um much in its original form so quite amazing that we've been able to retain that structure here's another great structure at 334 northeast first avenue these are historic district acreages so old school square and del ida park are the two largest west settlers just behind marina and nassau the smallest we have two of our historic districts in delray on the historic districts in delray on the national register why is that important the marina and old school square district if you're a contributor income producing property and you're doing alterations income producing can be a rental uh you know residential rental you can qualify for federal tax credits in addition to the local tax credits we have 45 listings individual listings on our local register of historic places five of those are districts 40 are sites and structures that's increased i think there's been five added in the last 10 years nine ish years these are a few photographs of local register properties i'll move a little quickly through these but um if you haven't gone out and visited there's many of these that you can go visit and some have markers on them the upper left corner is on northwest fifth avenue and it marks several sites that don't exist anymore including school number four delray colored which was officially the first school in delray beach 1890s 1895 the colony hotel here's the dewitt estate on the upper right spady museum bottom right um i think we call the one on the upper left the adams car dealership it's where azure has their office and i forget the one on the bottom left's name do you remember the name of that one it's an author i think who wrote marley and me yeah right anyway it's over off of vista delmar amalong it is no no amalong's i think on 12th or 14th no anyway uh the atlantic avenue intercoastal bridge is on the local register of historic places you can go out and see the marker for the atlantic avenue crossing nationally there are seven sites two are districts five are sites uh so seven listings and that includes um i haven't provided pictures but most notably and most recently at the top of our list of in our minds is the train station just west of i-95 and the corner of 95 and atlantic um that the city recently did a major renovation and rehabilitation at that site but this also includes the sandaway house the marina historic district um sunday house so our five historic districts quick question please yeah um so you mentioned the bridge and the reason from what i understand it was considered or designated as contributing is because if it were to be replaced and not historic it would look like linton or wolbright it would have to be elevated so is is delray able to toe the line on that and for both george bush and atlantic or is sometime dot going to come in and say nope you got to raise these things so i don't know that there's um i remember this happening when pat casey was here this i think was the last designation she worked on before she left um there is not the distance the width and the intercoastal to have anything as high as linton in this position or george bush um just because the intercoastal is so narrow at these points yeah um or even wolbright it's it's more it's wider up there too um so there are some limits and anytime i hear of things going on i remind public works hey it's historic um i don't know that that would mean that you you know we would say no to something and i don't think things would necessarily come before the board for review but when federal dollars are utilized the section 106 process has to be pro run through which comes through my office and we are technically supposed to be seeing improvements to um public infrastructure like that we see um section 106 reviews for all the cell towers i don't know if you've noticed how many cell towers are coming in we see them and if they're anywhere close to historic site we make comments uh we've made some comments about ones on atlantic avenue because at the time there was a resource survey impending and we were able to work with the cell phone provider to kind of shift some of these cell towers away from the colony because they were going to be right in front of the colony so it does give us some control and power um to protect what's called a view shed it's not an eloquent answer but i know it we do get to look at things so the one to the bottom right happens to be our guest's home this is nassau park historic district this district was created um ultimately on the cusp of this dark gray area here there was a home here these were demolished and new townhomes four townhomes and two buildings were built the entirety of every house on the street is a contributor in the nassau park historic district it's our smallest it's the only one on the barrier island the only one with residential use only and when you do go and look at the comp plan you'll see in the comp plan these blue boxes here that indicate what architectural styles are appropriate for use in every district so you can see here old school square has a huge list of appropriate architectural styles so if a style doesn't exist in the district it's not something that can be introduced into the district it's something we have to explain to applicants oftentimes old school square the namesake is the property for the old school square historic district something that we um get confused and applicants do too is there is the old school square historic district which is the name of what you see in gray right here and then there is the old school square historic arts district that is the name of the zoning district for everything that you see in gray so the two acronyms sound exactly the same with the zoning district having the a in there the building uh where bull bar once was that's an old picture that is the oldest um commercial building within a historic district in the city that was once known as the rodent building doll ida park was the city's first subdivision um notably associated with the city's first female mayor katherine linkstrong her house at the corner of dixie boulevard and second and we've seen quite a bit of work happening in in this particular district uh renovations and some new construction that district has um to back up it has residential and residential office so it's kind of split in half where we have some commercial use um in there and that historically was like that not from inception but over the years offices were were constructed there the marina historic district another um our second one on the national register paired with old school square has a like old school square has some of the most um structures still standing attributed to important architects sam hogren of course he's in every district gustav moss he was responsible for the train station carver high school the old point sienna high school or school belford shoemate is one of the five notable architects in palm beach and we found um building he designed anytime we happen upon an old permit it's kind of exciting you know to see we had some association with meisner that was moved into our district john volk and then west settlers is our newest or most recently designated in the late 90s um atlantic grove which some of you know where ziri is if you've gone for lunch to ziri or dinner that's part of the atlantic grove project where if you're looking here atlantic grove is right here on atlantic the commercial piece but the townhomes are right here because it's a unified development plan everything comes through our team for review so anybody wants to do something in the commercial pieces even though it's technically not in the district the historic team reviews it because a huge chunk of that project is the bottom left is mount olive church and mount olive baptist church this was late 1800s original structure to the district national register of historic places um sometimes there's thoughts that it's more stringent of an application for requirements where it's actually completely the opposite it's an honorary designation being a national register property does not require the review by my staff and i or anybody at the city against ldr's secretary of the interior standards design guidelines um changes that happen to a federally listed property national register we would if people were asking questions about it we would refer them to the state of florida who would talk with them because changes to a property affecting its character could affect its listing on the national register the big thing with the national register is the tax benefit that that somebody could get for improving a national register property so this board has to make findings as you know you see this in our staff report the four pillars here are the delray beach comprehensive plan the design guidelines the delray beach design guidelines the secretary of the interior standards and the delray beach land development regulations including the section 4.5.1 positive findings mean that you approve or supportive requests and a failure to make positive findings is a denial i do encourage you to go look at this at the very end of the presentation you'll see where you can go to our website and access all of this information this document is just so interesting to me the dia is the one that i would suggest you read data inventory analysis first and then read the goals objectives and policies the dia um includes all kinds of information a historical timeline uh which you can see starts right down here in the bottom corner it's a few pages long that timeline was created by the zion study circle this uh study circle was put together when there was a the community was at odds what history was first the black community or the white community and the history was different for each and so the zion study circle came together and brought that history together and told that story so we've put that story that history in the comp plan directly from um the august 2006 meeting of um time frame uh start of the zion study circle and that that group was compiled by our city commission and bringing the community together so if you can please go take a look it's it's quite interesting this is a presentation uh graphic that i've created for atlantic high school and you'll have access to this presentation um if you want it on flash drive we can give it to you or you can go back and watch this video but i think it's important to note that our history really began in 1876 when the orange grove um house of refuge was built the house of refuge was on the beach it was where the barefoot mailman would come and stop as he was delivering mail up and down the coast of florida i'm going to move past this you can take a look at that history in the comp plan the goals objectives and policies this is the first gop element for historic preservation at the city ever our our items were kind of housed and sprinkled in through the old comp plan this brought it together and brought a single vision of what what needed to happen for historic preservation in delray beach so this is a framework that essentially guides our land development regulations in the processes we're moving forward with um on a daily basis you'll see in there to study i think we put to study the cemetery for potential designation um so we had we had goals that we're trying to achieve the one that we use in your staff reports you'll see is is policy hpe 1.41 and this requires that the board make findings that any land use or development application for historic historic structure site or property within a district is consistent with the provisions of the ldrs the secretary of interior standards and the design guidelines so those aren't soft asks those are required by our comp plan the there's also compliance with the delray beach historic preservation design guidelines i have not sprinkled a ton of photos in here of this but you can go look at this too this is a document that guides us so an applicant comes in they want to change their siding they want to change their windows this is a resource for them as much as it is for us to look and say what is the appropriate method to do that the visual compatibility standards you guys hear us talk about this in our staff reports these were put in place in the late 2000s or modified significantly significantly in the late 2000s to address specific visual issues to make sure that the changes that were coming through for a property or a structure were compatible with the historic district or the historic structure or the non-contributing structure so this was created in concert with a consultant this was not a staff created portion of our code this was something we hired a professional to come and help us create these standards the ones that tend to come before you in waiver fashion most often are the additions this is 451 e7m it's at the end of the section and it says you know addition shall be not be forward of front wall plane of a building shall be as inconspicuous as possible should not change the character of the building these are feel like they're subjective but sometimes they're very blatant an addition comes right forward of the front facade that's a problem and somebody might need a waiver for that um and then the secondary and subordinate so that that is where we we rely upon you as a board here's the analysis and the staff report and you are the deliberating and decision making authority to say okay this is not appropriate or this is appropriate maybe a waiver or relief request is required this approval matrix is in the back of this document right here the design guidelines um so what the board did was they alongside of previous to me um with a previous director they promulgated a list in concert with our director of what could be approved at the admin level and what can be approved at the board level it also allows that anything we aren't comfortable with we have the ability to refer to the board so sometimes that happens where it's kind of teetering on the edge of can we approve that um but we have quite a bit of administrative authority we might be coming to you in the future to talk about what else can we add to this list what else can we add to make the process easier for the applicant and ultimately for you the secretary of the interior standards these are 10 standards um these pertain to historic buildings these are put together by the department of the interior national park service and these 10 standards you see in every staff report um sometimes on the screen they're kind of small but the ones that typically apply most one two three four and then nine and ten back here ultimately um this is to ensure that the integrity of historic structure is protected for the longevity ultimately ensuring the legitimacy of the district it's in so you start changing buildings the district can its legitimacy can erode over time and i'll show you an example of that in a few minutes this is what that book looks like it's big if you had it printed two sections of it is three inches these aren't just guidelines what's in this book um there are guidelines as you see here and we put these in staff reports and presentations of what the recommended and not recommended approach is to a whole myriad of things metal wood windows additions building site so if somebody's coming in and they want to replace their windows the recommended approach using window grids rather than true divided lights on windows the upper floors of high-rise buildings if they will not be noticeable as a recommended approach some of these things over time have modified slightly and there's guidance provided to us from the national park service on some things that are adjusting um modernization particularly windows for areas like florida where we have hurricanes right we may not be able to meet all of these standards and this provides the approach well yes they're guidelines but they're designed as how you can get into compliance with the 10 standards so they're guidelines to the 10 standards um and they are required to be met this is an example you can see on the left the original building with its windows and it had very character defining windows um you can see particularly in the arch um i believe they're double hung windows and this was considered by the national park service as an inappropriate modification because the building the windows on the right can anyone tell me like what the problems could be with the building on the right the windows they've closed in the windows so yes there's no buttons on the arches the windows and the top have been closed in but do you also notice how much smaller in the window opening the windows are on the right versus the windows on the left so the overall size of the window it was basically a stock possibly a stock purchase of windows rather than a custom purchase or perhaps there was issues with stability that instead of replacing the wood and the mullion which is the divider between the windows looks like it went from wood to maybe concrete or stucco so it seems like it's nuanced but the trained eye walking by this building on the right would see that that change had been made that's a character defining feature that don't meet the standards so why is all this important inappropriate additions alterations renovations re relocations demolitions those inappropriate changes over time like i said erode that district but as a certified local government which the city is through the state of florida uh we are required to uphold and your decisions are required to uphold those standards ldrs and guidelines being a clg offers us a lot of benefits one of the most notable is that we get to apply for grants and while they're called small matching grants we actually don't have a match requirement so if we had the bandwidth to do it we could be submitting for grants up to two fifty thousand each a hundred thousand per year every single year we were pushing and doing this for a while and got several projects done through the state of florida the gis map the scanning project the cemetery there's several that we've gotten if we weren't a clg we wouldn't be entitled to that match free grant opportunity we are required to report all actions staff approved applications board approved applications who the board members are what your resumes look like prove that you're qualified applicants there's a report michelle hewitt is working on this right now that's due every november to the state of florida reporting our activities um so while it you know it seems like a soft benefit it it's important that we prove that we're upholding the requirements of our own ordinance so now we're going to talk about threats to historic preservation the one that's happening most notably right now is the king tides so last week we had a full moon and it intersected with a high tide we had some of the highest tides i think we've had in in several years we were hearing about the properties particularly in the marina district that's our one historic district that's right on the intercoastal with their flooding happening and the city is working on a project to improve flood resiliency but that is a major threat to preservation next meeting we're going to talk about the flood adaptation guidelines that the national park service put together as a way to help property owners make their property more resilient to these these changing tides just changing tides sea level rise sorry yeah climate change i mean king tides have been happening hundreds of years yeah and nobody built a street to be underwater 100 years ago that's right yeah this is an example of a property in the marina historic district that was vertically elevated the trained eye can see that change by the brick skirting that's around the building this building would have had a concrete base around it and the wood siding almost probably six inches to the ground if not right at the ground and now it sits up higher other threats to preservation and this is an example that also is in the marina historic district but not not necessarily completely because of flood flood levels and sea level changes but inappropriate alterations demolition new construction so the area that you see sometimes i refer to this in our some of our presentations this entire section of the marina historic district was removed in the 2008 time frame because so much inappropriate changes had occurred demolitions new construction additions that were completely inappropriate for structures so when the consultant came through to do a resurvey they were like did this get approved by the board they did the recommendation was this is no longer appropriate to even call this a historic district and the whole almost entire block south of third street was removed other threats are maintenance and there is a code now as of 2018 that the property owner is required to maintain their property in good order free of wood rot free of termites if they don't and it leads to demolition the property the board you all have the authority to deny a property owner following a demolition due to neglect from reconstructing anything on that property for five years that's also in ldr 451 the historic section when was that that was 2018 that was a result of the historic preservation task force which was underway before i came to the city um members of the task force included joanne pert as the chair claudia willis carolyn patten roger cope number of other people and they were charged with looking at ways to strengthen preservation in delray beach and this is one of the places they started in addition to a number of other great things um they added maintenance requirements for historic properties that ever been tested we use it yeah absolutely uh um the property and i only i'm only going to use them as an example because they've done such a great job is swinton social which really was the property that was the impetus behind this code because a developer came along purchased the property and stopped maintaining the the property property this is um just east of sunday village so um swinton those little cottages on the south of atlantic it wasn't built oh okay yeah there are four little small wood frame cottages came in front of us like a couple months ago yeah so there's new owners now when those new owners took um ownership the co-enforcement violation was reissued to the new owner um they didn't know what that meant we worked very closely with them one of the houses um we believe it was a homeless person went in and a fire had started and the inside was like the inside of a barbecue grill and we walked it we walked inside no floorboards just walking on the floor joists um and they had to bring that up to snuff and they understood that if they wanted to you know demolish it it was going to be as a result of neglect and then you would have that ability to refuse it's called scorched earth to refuse construction of anything new on the property so yes this is being used um it's very serious code enforcement has been trained just recently again and how to use that code section other threats are things that happen acts of god this is on nassau street as well i don't have the after photo to show you but this did end up turning out to be a really lovely project um but at the time this but big section of the west side of the building caught on fire smoke damage on the interior it was in dire shape um so this was an act of god can be a threat to historic preservation um this is not a historic building but can anyone tell me what this is wine wine room yeah it's called wine and spirits do you know the the name of what that building was before the arcade tap room um so the arcade tap room is an original 1920s sam ogren building um important for its architecture but also its association with culturally important people in our community including herb roth and fontaine fox these were the cartoonists the artists of why we are called an artist colony from the 30s because they would have their offices up there they'd go work for a little bit and then they'd go downstairs and have libations at the arcade tap room so it was quite a popular location so the front of the building is still intact little to no changes happened you can see it up here so i'm taking a picture from the alley but the entirety of the back of that building was removed and reconstructed um new foundations we tried really hard to get um the detailing around the arch and the front of the building to be brought back to what it was originally and it did change somewhat we didn't have purview over this but i still tried to kind of squeeze my way in and help the owner and say this could be historic one day let us help you um so inappropriate alterations are a threat to historic preservation i don't think this was inappropriate the important piece is the building facing atlantic the piece in the back um which was a later addition that is all gone didn't they enclose part of that it used to be open air when it was built yeah but the the front um curved arch didn't they enclose some of it and put a door and an elevator or something on the side so you can actually see tiny bit of evidence in the left picture uh where the column the roof the doorway beyond those were all later additions so that was to accommodate an elevator that never existed there but that was done a long time ago um but john's right it was open air in the middle and over the years they had added a really beautiful um glass ceiling in the building all of that is is different now um but the historic bar in the corner is still there which is what they call the speakeasy and the stories if you want to go sniff out the stories a little bit better than i might tell them there used to be what i've heard a tunnel from the bar that went out underneath the building during prohibition times and that was how it was um a place where you could drink have alcohol do i have that wrong john i no i don't know i i think it's hearsay now in the colony hotel they do have a kind of a cellar in the colony and i think maybe that's where that corner is you would never know it's there but it's kind of cool so i know it's there because i do yoga there and you don't want to be on top of that door oh wow um but so the arcade tap room it was the courtyard area it was just open there there was like no fountain there were building there was a building that wrapped it it was like little shops all the way around it yeah open i remember when the brazilian steakhouse was their goal and i think it had the glass ceiling yeah at that time yeah when i was it and that was when the renovation yes yeah when i was a kid i can remember what it was like it was almost like a via like you would see in palm beach um because the buildings that the building and the shops that wrapped it in the offices above were all part of like kind of off the ave commerce this is off topic but near here wasn't there a pharmacy that also had like a like a like a juice bar inside so that was the nutrition cottage that was right next door i think um that was nutrition store and they had a juice bar in the back i always think about that when i see this nice to go in yeah i loved the nutrition cottage i went to high school with their daughter that was the stowe family um so preservation so this is an example of and we in delray beach have been moving houses around for a very long time um the cra office building was moved and the building next to it came from the airport um mr and mrs harden's home they don't live there now but it's called the hardened heart house added to the registry a few years ago that was moved from west palm this was all taken from the theirs came down the intercoastal on a barge these all did yes they all came it was called a parade of homes and it was in the newspaper and they all came down the intercoastal to knolls park down off 10th and federal and then they were slowly moved in through town this example is um the name of it is escaping me right now but this i'll show you the house then we'll come back uh this on the barrier islands price house maybe no that was um joyce de moose's house yeah i think it's officially called the price oh it could have been is it uh it was over but that one was on a1a yeah and so this is a documented sears kit home um gary oleopoulos was involved with this project um it says sam ogren was the built built and designed by him but gary had done some research um through this the time frame when this was happening and there was belief that it was documented at sears kit home um i don't know i i think it's associated with sam ogren and that's its grandeur but either way it was moved i did get a chance thankfully joyce let me come see it right before she sold it it's so cute inside and it's got a really nice size edition on the back it's double frontage that addition accesses beach road and has a driveway in the back but this is an opportunity to show you an example of preservation so this was individually designated after it was moved another example this is um believed to be sam ogren's home his home that he designed and built for himself it's not listed it's not protected but i will say that i watched the owners um do their whatever they did over the time frame that they did it and i'm thankful that they left it pretty much intact on the exterior this is on north swinton just north of lake ida road on the west side so now we're going to talk about some benefits um the carl elefante um we mentioned him in our um our comprehensive plan um he wrote an article that stated and this is what his entire belief is based on you should go to his website carl elefante.com pretty cool go and visit that that the greenest building is the one that's already built and his belief was um that essentially his belief is that preservation essentially is a form of sustainability adaptive reuse of structures keeps those structures out of the landfill and reduces our um climate change impacts right so if we're adaptive reuse the ultimate effect at the long road here is it's going to help keep our planet cool and this is taken from our comprehensive plan historic preservation is the original pure form of sustainability so sustainability we're thinking reusable grocery bags or electric cars but i i think we fail to look at how historic preservation really has an impact on our planet um that we are making sure our vitality is in place for future generations um so i encourage you to go read about him um read his thoughts i was on his website again today making sure it was all up to date there's some really interesting things and articles go read what he has to say it's kind of enlightening and why is preservation important uh we obviously the incentives seem like they're more soft incentives once you get out of the tax incentives um pride of ownership tends to be one of the incentives um that we express to to property owners but it oftentimes is the person that wants to be a part of the city that they live in they enjoy owning a piece of that history and becoming a shepherd and a steward for that history but what does it do for our economy it improves our local regional regional state economy through tourism because people come to visit cultural sites they want to go to museums if you think about the trips you've taken like how many of you have been to saint augustine i think we probably all have and you're the going there to see the architecture to see the fort to see the fountain of youth that that columbus thought he found or not columbus um ponce de leon thank you um so it's you're going to visit spaces because you want to learn more about it you go to the beach to enjoy the beach but you a lot of times go and visit ireland or scotland because you want to see the old castles right or the old construction and architecture uh this gentleman that meant to put his name on here his name is donovan ripkema he came and spoke at our atlantic avenue historic symposium that we had um so if you want to hear him speak he spoke there it's pretty interesting um to listen to him i've also listened to him at a session that they had at the dowry beat or the palm beach preservation foundation and he his thoughts and what he was doing is a preservationist and an economist is he was studying that what was happening in our country over the long decades part of our history but then all the way up to our recession in the 2000s and what he was able to find in his research is that property values either stayed where they were or they rose for properties in historic districts or historically designated properties um so his his research and you can go on his website too it's very interesting you can go back and listen to him at the symposium but he really believed that it historic preservation is a central building block for so many things in addition to our economy and here you can see this graphic pie chart is taken from the state of florida historic preservation comp plan document this was done in the late 2000s um where they also and this is from that same document this is from our comp plan i took the information from the state and inserted it here uh we're looking at billions of dollars brought into our state through heritage tourism and historic preservation it in it solidifies jobs in addition to tourism trade you want to go and work on a building maybe you're a specialty tradesman the retail industry has implications here um in state wealth jobs and income it's just amazing when you read all of this information and we don't think about it in the context of what we're doing we are thinking about this one little building on swinton you know and we go back i now i'm thinking i should have put some of those old pictures the before and afters after this part right here so you could see how amazing our city has turned over the years because of historic preservation so here is our website delraybeachfl.gov forward slash historic will bring you to the base you're going to want to make sure you click on hp regulations and maps over on the sidebar here and these icons will link you into all of these documents we've covered tonight there's also maps here that you can access as well if you want to look at graphics but this is where the ldrs the delray design guidelines the secretary of the interior standards the comp plan all of that's right here we encourage you to go and look at these documents and get familiar because there is so much on you responsibility-wise to continue to be making the decisions that you're making with our board does anyone know what this is other than john yes i know carol and john are nodding how about ben or chris no it's the powers that's the tall guys parade down in atlantic right this is the um saint patrick's day parade the powers was it maury yeah um and the green pig so we you did used to have a green pig we're not allowed to do that anymore but um and first parade was just him and the kid yeah i catch it this is how i remember delray beach as a kid and this is today so we greatly appreciate your dedication your service listening to me go on tonight and kind of stress the importance of our regulations and our codes we just want you to be armed with as much information as possible because if the state were here doing a presentation it would be all focused on defensible decision making i think at our next meeting we're we may have some things that kelly and i might work on together to to bring to you about defensible decision making and your role as a board but thank you for your service and your dedication and for doing such a great job our next training november 5th please please try to come if you don't think you can come let us know in advance but you can always go back and watch the meeting if you had to it looks like a fairly light agenda so it should be similar to the timing is as what this is here but we're going to cover those flood adaptation standards and kind of give you a short course on that any questions that was excellent thank you thank you for thanks yeah i'm glad i'm glad that somebody put some some statistics and some math behind one and i think i got this line from you that that communities with the stronger commitment to historic preservation also have higher property values you know you talk about palm beach miami beach coral gables key west saint augustine delray i mean it's it's not a chicken or the egg i mean the two were are are linked and and i've been telling people that forever and ever but i'm glad that now there there is some statistics behind it yes and it's in the comp plan yeah so if you ever wanted to go look at the numbers a little closer you can look at them there but also look at um donovan ripkema and his website and the research he's done in the studies he's done i i was it was actually myself price and roger were all um at the preservation foundation in palm beach the first time i heard him talk and we all walked out of there kind of like gobsmacked that wow i had no idea um about historic preservation and its impact on property values it was amazing so it's it'd be a good resource if you like the numbers you can go look at his his stuff too anything else i thought it thought it was really good i mean delray got lucky too because you know a lot of the money in the 60s and 70s and 80s flowed the boca they got redeveloped and built up and people left delray alone and then when it got rediscovered there was already some guidelines in place i love that way of looking at it that we got lucky that they walked i mean they were talking about four laning atlantic all the way to the beach there was you know the big box over in old school square there's all kinds of right before he were leading swinton even that was under discussion he talked to me a bit about and swinton technically is designated as historic swinton avenue although it doesn't fall under any kind of historic purview of the board but um talking with roy simon the year before he passed he was telling me a bit and we were trying to figure out how we could help the colony replace their awnings without dot requiring some type of agreement since what was happening and i was like just do it no um but roy he was telling me about his experience with atlantic avenue back when dot was looking at widening it even more than they did and i can't imagine what the fronts of those buildings would have looked like if they'd taken any more so personally i still think they should get rid of the park and just widen the sidewalk but it's just me anytime i go i i go to a city um a historic old town i mean the one that comes to memory for me most recently is thomasville georgia um there's a few others but they still have the diagonal parking along their roads it's a little tricky crossing those roads um even though they're not as busy as ours there it's just still broader you know but i always thought if they didn't get rid of the parking why not put at least like in front of the colony atlantic crossing all the way to the bridge like a landscaped median um kind of bring the road a little feel a little smaller which is what they did big changes to federal back in the 90s and early 2000s they really made federal highway feel more narrow more pedestrian friendly um so it wasn't such a big expanse to get across on clematis they brought the street level to the sidewalk level so it it slows traffic down because it you feel like your people are right there yeah so that's a traffic calming technique and it makes it makes the it's not expanding the space but it makes it feel like you have more space it does although the makes it feel more pedestrian but also cars don't have a curb they sometimes end up on the sidewalk they've put a lot of bollards in i think it was a lot of bollards that actually get hit yes i think it was unintended consequence of the design was they had to protect the pedestrian in some way so it became vertical bollards planters look really good yeah it does yeah it could be lighting to the bollard so it serves two purposes true well thank you all that was great do we have any uh other comments or items or anything like that just that our next meeting is november 5th so it's just two weeks from now um you'll be getting an agenda in the next week or so on that any board member comments i've got a comment um you know all we we've been getting all these uh ask for forgiveness uh applicants rather than asking permission and uh i think a lot of them know that they probably shouldn't do it because these people already had an approval they already knew what they were approved for um as a i'm meeting the applicant today as as an example um but they went ahead and did it anyway there's also a contractor out there that is going ahead and installing something without a permit in hand and i don't know what to do about this i mean i've been thinking about it but it's almost like you have to make these contractors like you got to hit them hit them with something that is a that is a violation of statute right that and and it would i think be enforceable through um you know through our our building department but you know as a as a licensed contractor if i was to go do work without a permit i could lose my license and i i don't understand why that's not enforced and and maybe it's who's got the responsibility for for for actually filing that complaint because i think what it would take is is is somebody filing a complaint uh against that contractor's license because it's very serious yeah it's a very very serious it's costly to the to the owner because now this owner maybe they were told they could do it or i'm not sure but it's costing someone money to do it you want to be development friendly um with that and you want them to improve their property because they are undertaking something but they i don't i don't i just don't understand the mentality of why they feel they can go outside all these boundaries that that have already been established well case in point is the property on the northeast corner of lake ida and second um alice speck's old property and um you know they came before us we said no or come back with a better plan and they did it anyway and i don't think there's been any repercussions on it so i don't know i know it's being handled through code enforcement but um yeah i know it's super frustrating but i you know it is something that has to be handled on the code enforcement or potentially building side as well um and all i can say while you're up here is you just have to treat it like as if it was before you the first time um before they did it you know not give them any benefit or any negative about it and just treat it because it will like because the code enforcement board is the one that is the um i mean their ideal position is compliance so they are the ones that are trying to get the people into compliance but a tool that they used to do that is through fines um so they you know i mean do it when when they're applying for these applications is there um like do you staff as uh do you guys approach them and say hey look if you do anything x you know this will happen like so we do this all the time uh-huh we explain from beginning to end how it's important that they not do the work prior to having a permit in hand it's always at the top of our list to discuss and while kelly may stop me i am going to say as a board it's up to you to decide what's okay and what's not for the legitimacy of that structure right so if you decide that doesn't meet our code requirements it you know i think we've had some instances in the past where the board's like wow it's going to be expensive to replace all those windows that's not the consideration that you're charged with you're charged with is this an appropriate alteration for this house whether it's been done or not isn't the point it's is it appropriate so at some point there's going to be a straw that's going to break the camel's back an example project i just think that a people um you know if if if it was just uh if people knew more about this or they you know the contractors themselves knew particular maybe it's not the applicants maybe it's the contractors i don't know but we get this a lot specifically applicant yeah but the ones that tend to do it the most have been warned not to do it and they do it anyway okay that is what we found as far as the one on second um we've had meetings recently uh there are holds on permits that they can't have co's for so because of this and so they want to come into compliance because they want those co's so there's some things that i've been able to do but it has to be done through code enforcement and they are coming forward is what they've said and i'm you know i've said you've said it before but three years why are we going to see it you know at what point so i think there's some controls but carol when i started it was a free-for-all um of people doing work without permits it was just a free-for-all yeah i don't understand so i i mean it puts us in a bad position it puts us all in a bad position and it doesn't happen this isn't just a little bit this happens every single meeting oh yeah that's why that's why i'm just speaking up about it because uh we don't want to be in that we don't want to be in that position either even though i know we're we're supposed to do what we got to do and we do do what we got to do but um it's frustrating i don't think the fines are high enough in my opinion um they're irreversible and irreparable is what fifteen thousand dollar fine i don't think that's enough i think doing business these days i think it's just the cost of right you wrap that into the cost of the project and if it's one percent maybe in some instances so what so certain things that are like defined by statute by code by you know so it it just depends on what is you know appropriate all right we're exactly at seven o'clock so i'm gonna that's it it's only seven call this adjourned if anybody has any objection thank you so much all right