Marker good afternoon everyone welcome to the city of Delray Beach City Commission workshop meeting this Tuesday June 2nd if the clerk please call the roll deputy vice mayor Margaret here Commissioner Malika Commissioner Casale here vice mayor Burns here mayor Carney here we have a quorum but thank you very much we're going to begin the meeting with public comments the public comments we have two we have agenda items here which you all can see if anybody has any public comments on these agenda items now's the time to get up and come to the lectern you'll each have three minutes you give your name and zip code for the record public comment is now open we're slowly moving into public comment they're asking them it's everything on the agenda right everything on the agenda item 2 discussion of mobile home truck mobile food trucks WS 3 the follow-up considerations regarding free ride services and WS 4 discussion regarding the expansion of the entertainment district those are the those are the three items on the agenda yes ma'am hi Shelly Licasar Delray Beach DDA visitor center information center coordinator and resident at 3 3 4 8 3 I would like to comment on the free ride services that you're going to discuss I from the visitor center I can tell you we would love to see these expanded especially going to the tri rail we have lots of international visitors who cannot download uber because their phone number is doesn't fit in the uber format and they would love to have a way to get a ride especially to the tri rail because they enjoy using the rail services a lot as a resident I would love to see their downtown ride services expanded so that the local downtown neighborhoods are serviced if you can get those folks who are right in the vicinity who are going to be coming downtown anyway not to use their cars it would be a huge bonus so I think that would be an excellent example of how to expand the ride services great thank you very much good afternoon hi my name is William Mattiello and I own Mattiello house of lasagna on Farrah highway I've been serving the community for several years and the food trucks and our smaller local businesses that create jobs bring people to underused areas and give residents more dining options I respectfully ask the city to consider creating additional locations where the food truck can legally operate we are not asking for special treatment just a reasonable opportunity to do business more designated area would allow us to serve more residents participate in community events and contribute more to local economy food truck and big and mortar restaurant can coexist we we serve different needs and often bring activity to places that would otherwise be empty so thank you for your time and for supporting the local small businesses thank you very much sir are there any other members of the public wishing to speak on any of these three agenda items famous Chuck Whitley 33444 did you bring the sirens to Chuck yes I did points into the direction I would like to see the entertainment direction entertainment district extended I think it's about time I don't think there's no one here that knows how and the desire that this community want in order to see this district extent don't remember when it changed I do remember why it changed it was to create a pathway to downtown and at that time going from what we now call the set to downtown was not deemed safe there was a time when they they changed the traffic lights to accommodate the traffic lights to accommodate folk leaving downtown to go towards I-95 there was a time when the signage on west of Sweden said no lottery and the east of Sweden it was assumed that it was a pedestrian district southwest of St. Glanick Avenue is an entertainment district what's the gu deactivated and had a strong entertainment district when it changed it also took a lot of a lifeblood and we would like to see it go back and we would like for the rules to be the same there anything that is good for east of Delaware answer it now one topic only don't get me to answer it I'm talking entertainment district what happens on the east should happen on the west if there are limitations happening on the west make that happen on the east so that we do not give competitive advantages to the businesses that are on the east if the rents don't scare them i don't know what will but make sure that what we have on the west is able to accommodate the future businesses that we will have come our way i stand on atlantic avenue often now i don't know how to do market counts but i can count and to see the amount of cars that come off i-95 and go east it is we should actually be excited about what we see go downtown let's expand it let's not put any barriers um for businesses that desire and want a business west of swinton one of the best things you can do is strengthen um and keep the similar policies that you have downtown thank you thank you very much hello jim chard 33483 it's good to see all of you i'm here to speak a little bit on the food trucks i think it's one of the more exciting things happening in this city it's entrepreneurship it's jobs and it's good food uh at a reasonable price and we have a developing corridor on federal that you can choose lasagna you can choose venezuela and you can choose italian pizza it's fantastic and i remember once going to austin texas where they had a whole park of food trucks and it was a tourist attraction you had to stand in line to be able to order and i think a similar thing can happen here it is a tourist attraction it is for families uh it's affordable for families and it lights up federal so i am anxious to see what you all had to say about it i know one of the issues is that these are being set up so people can sit down and talk and enjoy our great florida weather except on some hot days um but uh it's just it's colorful it's diverse it's what delray is all about thank you thank you very much my name is fred kent one one two zero one that is not florida as you can guess um there's so much to talk on it but i do want to talk about street food and there's a really great program in london that is called the south bank center food market so what they do is they have basically small stalls where what might have been a street food food type thing could go into the stall so it isn't like a truck so you can get more businesses uh sale in a part of the downtown if it's small stalls that people can come into and put their stuff up the the market in london is three days a week and it's one of the most the busiest markets and it's really beautiful uh definitely you should have uh you know street food uh because you get more cultures that way but you don't have them where uh in the downtown uh on the in the square and that would be very helpful to get that kind of food as well and it's beyond just the the mark of the uh streets what do you call them street what do they call street uh well street food i mean i have the i have information on it but it's one of the busier places on the south bank in london but it's all separate stores different cultures in a smaller space than it is a truck the trucks get in the way uh and they're very good in some places but in the downtown core there maybe there's another uh venue which is more small stalls that could be used uh for the same kind of food so you would get a win-win with the trucks and with the stalls in the downtown okay thank you very much thank you for your time notes here my name is hosney founder of ukulele talking about the food trucks a venezuelan outdoor dining concept that starts here in the ray back to 2022 with a small rented trailer limited equipment and about just three thousand dollars not in miami not in caracas here right here in the ray beach but before ukulele arrived this story had already started during one of the most uncertain moments in the recent history marcelo and his family must so right there they start his uh created uh what became a rosanos our authentic napolitan pixel concept built with discipline consistency and respect for the craft then came they came the picnic which helped raise the standard in the area organization quality and presentation later ukulele us join this corridor with a vision not only to sell venezuelan food but to create an outdoor dining experience where people feel welcome cared for and connected they came william with the material house of lasagna with the authentic uh recipe from modern italy and most recently roca turkish cuisine right there uh with another cultural food concept correct over the years several other food food concept has passed through this same area many of them did not survive and we believe and we believe the reason matters today's success is not implied about opening a window and expecting people to buy food people are looking for places where they feel cared for places with consistency identity and owners who are present the strongest proof does not come from us it comes from the people themselves if you look at the public google maps reviews of these businesses people do not only talk about food they talk about the vibe the service the atmosphere and the family feeling and the way they are treated those are not marketing words created by us those are words chosen by the people who have actually been there like mr jim it's also important to clarify that we have not been operated without any control or outside the system it's important for years we have worked under inspections recommendations and operational guidance from the the rape beach and the state of florida we have passed fire department inspections health inspections inspections inspections animal food trucks inspections and regular compliance reviews the current operators are updated and compliant so this is not something untested this is something that already exists has already been reviewed and has already earned public asset acceptances you need you need to wrap it up yeah we won't finish it up thank you so very much don't forget how was it years ago between george bush and godfrey it was all darkness uh now people just come with the golf cars stop by more people is walking around also we got this pop stroke next door um but absolutely it's more it's becoming more active and more people oriented and and i appreciate your time this is something i want to i want to uh share with you and uh and we are asking the city to look at what what has already happened here and consider it like a a pilot already proven thank you very much thank you very much are there any other members of the public wishing to address the commission on comments there we are good evening marcelo rosano 33444 good evening commissioners thank you for allowing us to speak tonight six years ago i arrived to the right beach with my wife and my young daughter and a simple idea share authentic neapolitan pieces uh with uh the community we started as a small food truck became rosano over the time independent concepts join us include ukulele matielos roca betty um together we are not large corporations national exchange we are families entrepreneur and small business owners who choose the del rey beach as our home what developed in 1402 north federal highway is more than a collection of food truck it became a place where families gather neighbors connect visitors enjoy unique experience people come not only for the food but for the atmosphere in the same community over the years we have worked closely with the city of del rey the state state florida operating under inspection permitted regulatory oversights we remind committed complainants cleanliness safety and responsible operations we also believe the small business have helped bring new life to areas the ones on the rise during evening hours through the daily effort main maintenance hospitality consistency we create destination the people genuinely enjoy visiting today we know asking for limiting expansions we are proposing a thoughtful and organized model to allow maximum or three carefully selected concept and per property stable long-term business that enhance the community we are respecting neighbors traffic parking and quality of life we believe that our del rey beach is already something special here a model that supports small business great economy activities celebrate culture extreme communities and connections we're respectful ask for the opportunity to continue building this vision together with the city thank you for the time and the consideration thank you very much sir my name is eddie estevez i'm with don eddie's kitchen one of the food trucks also on the federal highway corridor um and i'm honored to be part of this great group of of excellent food trucks that have offered that have offered this area of delray beach the community there an alternative to to being able to get excellent food at a reasonable price giving them a variety people roll up in their in their golf carts and you know we've gotten to know them by name and and i feel that we you know i'm the new guy on the block but i've been there almost 10 months now you know i already won a couple awards for my sandwiches so you know i'm honored to be part of this group and i think we offer something great to the community something that the community really enjoys and you know i hope to continue thank you thank you very much hi good afternoon you all um my name is logan mcleod svp of business development for proquel mobility 92108 um you know i i'm speaking on behalf of the freebie uh expansion uh we're another company that operates similar types of services we're in 13 cities nationally we're rooted here in south florida we operate north miami beach with a fixed route trolley service as well as on-demand services as well coral springs and also tamrac we do 40 routes a day in pair for paratransit operations in palm beach the reason i'm coming up here is i've obviously looked at and done a lot of due diligence research i've met with some of you already and talking about some of the pain points with the current services obviously now you're talking about expanding it to now cover the tri-rail um i heard from the woman here talking about for the visit center and getting people employees and visitors to and from that tri-rail which i think is a huge important part as we think about first and last mile it is to connect to other modes of transportation palm tram was also discussed i believe here uh and looking at how you can complement those so one option that i want to put out there for discussion today is going out to rfp and competitive bid i believe you would see a lot of companies including ours to come in and put forth really good innovative ideas and really enhance the services that you all are looking to see in the city reduce congestion open up parking and really give residents something that's going to get them out of their cars and using other modes of transportation which is the end goal so offer that as another option and again we are one company that would love to participate and then partner with you all here in the city of del rey thank you very much thank you very much are there any other members of the public wishing to speak good evening guys my name is kayhan i'm on the roca turkish cuisine and food truck and my english is not well i just want to speak a little bit i just moved one year ago here and i opened small food truck is here and i see there is a nice place the people is so nice and family and the local and then people is cannot afford to so many expensive restaurants and they are happy to come us and then we love to be here and we're waiting to you guys support us thank you so much thank you very much james janata 33483 we own a little business angel street antiques 1402 north federal two of the food trucks currently are parked there it's a it's a really interesting hybrid business model the food trucks bring business to the shops in the store the people in the stores hey check out these food trucks and we ask that understand the city dictates where they can be but we would ask the reconsideration on how they operate it's very restrictive in three days a week and they have to leave the property there's a lot of restrictions around how the food trucks can operate and that's what we'd really like to have looked at thank you great thank you very much seeing no more public comment public comment is closed i now turn this over to the agenda item ws2 discussion of the mobile home trucks mobile food trucks mobile food trucks i know what they are okay good afternoon anthea geniotis development services director um so i think this we're looking for direction you've gotten some feedback from our mobile vendors and um just a quick sort of lay of the land of how the rules work now um the food trucks are not allowed in any residential neighborhoods or districts but they're allowed in most of the commercial ones the central business district is limited and i'll explain that in a minute so um any of the commercial properties that are in green um can have food trucks and then the central business district is a little bit limited when you're hearing that there's a lot of rules there are a lot of rules and so i think we need some direction as to how necessary they actually are i don't know how i'm having feedback i'm like it's weird okay um and and whether or not we need to enforce the rules or perhaps the way these businesses have grown that the rules are what need to be adjusted um so for example um in most of the most of the um city you cannot have a food truck within 200 feet of a brick and mortar restaurant there's a reason for that i mean if you're you heard mr ridley talked about the rents on east atlantic you know you park a food truck right in front of somebody who's having to pay those rents you may have some dissatisfaction with those business owners um but there are um i think there's room to expand if you desire um one of the other rules is no seating areas and we have several that have developed seating areas and quite frankly we haven't had any code enforcement calls no one is worried about the seats they enjoy the seats so is this an opportunity where maybe the code needs to change or do you really want us to send code enforcement out to chase away the chairs um they are limited in their hours there's another one that there are other things that have been raised about they can't be in one location for longer than six hours they're limited the days of the week and there's only one that's allowed to be there at a time where what we've seen and what we see in other cities is sometimes having more than one actually makes a lot of of energy like you like tacos but you know i want a hot dog or and things like that um so these are just the the rules that are in place now you know we always sort of start really restrictive because it's kind of hard to reel things back so now we are looking for some direction as to whether we should be maybe relaxing some of the rules so the central business district you know which let's face it is the highest rents in the city they're only allowed to be located um north of lake ida road so north of fourth where downtown has kind of shifted in away from being the easy walking pedestrian area where it gets a little bit more vehicular oriented um we have a lovely food truck right now that's on the south side of the street and honestly when we've looked at as a staff we're wondering if whether we should expand the area in the downtown um to third or to second and then we're going to also talk about the west atlantic neighborhood in a minute so those are those are other you know considerations for downtown we're careful with downtown but we're wondering if you know maybe the limit the limited area is a little too limited perhaps and and having some other options would be um possible um so they are definitely operating with a bit more permanency than the code expected um and again i i just confirmed with jerry we really haven't had people calling and complaining they quite like them we do have them sometimes settling into required parking we need to make sure that you know maybe that's not a problem as long as there's still plenty of room to maneuver they are not permanent structures if there's a problem we could move them along differently perhaps um the other i think uh thing to consider for downtown is the set the set master plan was just adopted and one of the um items that was considered within the set was having but more opportunities for pop-ups and food trucks um so there's a potential also maybe for um you know allowing them to be located subject to an agreement with the city or some of those on-street spaces or the public lots there's a limit that you cannot park one on a vacant property but the west atlantic area is suffering from vacant properties so if we could perhaps in the meantime as an incubator space and a way to to generate more interest maybe expand some of those uses to the west that's a consideration that was documented in the set master plan um so ultimately we're here just to ask you know based on the feedback based on your own experiences based on the set master plan should we be looking to expand the areas where food trucks are allowed um should we be looking at maybe simplifying and eliminating some of the operational restrictions for the food trucks um is the seating a problem or should we take out the rule that there it's not a problem it's just sort of evolved that way i don't think anybody set out to break any rules but you know people get something and they want to sit down and and um and if we are going to have seating should we get some sort of sketch plan that kind of shows so that everybody knows your truck goes here your tables and chairs can be there but hey this is a handicapped parking space don't block it you know that type of thing um and that's really what i have to offer at this point um there is discussion about a pilot program if you're uncomfortable sort of with a permanent ex you know expansion of the rules maybe there's something we could do designating them including some of these vacant lots um and you know seeing uh if if it works like it has been working um then there's not a problem but if there are problems then we could sort of adjust thank you very much to the commission commissioner gazelle sure um so first i would say that i enjoy the the food trucks um the gentleman from ukulele i know i'm pronouncing it wrong has the best hamburger around and the uh the um italian has the best cannolis and my daughter loves the pizza so i would i think we should establish a pilot program as quickly as possible i always worry about making big changes without understanding the ramifications i do think we should probably try and keep the 200 foot but in terms of the no seating areas i think they need to have seating areas that's kind of creates the exciting environment for people to go to i think you have to have an open time earlier in case someone's serving a breakfast item nine to midnight seems like we could do earlier i like the idea of more than one in a location because the family has the options of different dining experiences if you have a child and adults they don't always want the same thing uh i don't think we should limit them to four days a week at all out there and i think um expanding to third and west atlantic is a good idea and i really would just say that i love hearing the stories here today because these are this is like the american dream i came here to delray beach i had very little i created this business and i i just love hearing that and i think that you know we can do something that won't affect the downtown businesses but still allows these businesses to expand and thrive i'm excited thank you commissioner yeah i kind of brought this forward because it's important i think to change some of the rules that are being broken but nobody's complaining about so i think that we need to memorialize those um i agree with the more than one truck on a lot that rule should i guess we could go right to the ordinance and talk about each one um that they don't have to move because it's confusing it says mobile um shall not be parked on a location for longer than six hours but then up there it says the mdvs are not subject to that duration of stay but i think we should remove the duration of stay um allow um seating and and some lighting not necessarily to be picked up every evening but not allowed to sprawl now i don't know how you would sort of define that we'd have to figure that out um i already said that more than one food truck should be able to operate at one time and that okay that's already said that part i think that is it but i reserve the right to talk again oh i know sorry sorry okay it was too soon so with with regard to um the set master plan and that being involved in it i'm very excited for something to be able to pop up now do we just go in vacant lots who owns those vacant lots do we need permission um i see that we've got about 59 churches in the set i don't know if that's something that could be allowed there that could create some activity i don't know if there's a desire for that but um certainly that could be an option that's it thank you very much commissioner burns yes thank you um so i am in support of it expanding the the services that the food trucks are allowed to provide currently um i am always a supporter of small business and entrepreneurship and i think that we should look at these operational restrictions um and make it so that people can be successful in what they're what they're doing um the seating you gotta have some seating i mean and it's nice and you know great thing to hear that you know there has hasn't been any complaints i've not had um food at all of them yet but i have on a couple of them but i'm looking forward to that award-winning sandwich um yes but um i i am in support of uh really relaxing some of these um these restrictions and also in favor of the vacant lots being used as well thank you mr markert yep uh first of all i'm i'm a food truck fan so i come at this from a very positive standpoint i love food trucks um i i think it we are i i like everything you presented i mean i i say yes to seating um i do think we will need a sketch on that so it doesn't get out you know get out of hand seven days seems to make sense to me um i i you know i i don't have a problem with um duration of stay on a lot as as long as they're continuing to operate it's another thing if they're closed five days a week and only open two but if they're operating i don't i don't have a problem with the truck staying there and i i think just lastly from everything that i heard i think the best thing antia would be if we could write up a new set of rules that we can all review and and hopefully um check with some of the some of the nice vendors who came today to see if we're addressing their needs and ours um but i don't i i don't i think this is a good thing for our community so i'm definitely in favor of doing it uh all good comments and i echo what my colleagues have said um i live off of north federal north federal so i get to walk to all of them and they're all great and the sandwich shop by the way i love it i stop and get the gas there and then i go to the sandwich shop so they're great sandwiches matiello's knows because i go there and i pick up my my what i consider to be the best bolognese sauce in delray beach and i just pick up that and i go home and i cook it so i go to the rest and they're all great i do think that having more than one truck at a located depending on the size of the lot we have to figure out whether but if they can accommodate two and they can accommodate three it does create a buzz there's a place out there was in sarasota i went a couple years ago there's every weekend there's a food truck they all gather in one place and there's like 40 food trucks and all different kinds of you choose your cuisine there's a food truck board and so i i think that's a great idea um i don't think they should be used in public parking lots i don't agree with that portion because public parking is too hard plus there's enough private parking lots around that we all know that they should be able to accommodate some of these things that they can kind of deal with them i love the idea of being able to use church parking lots because these are largely unused during the week and you know they they could create a great sense of community um um along with mr uh kent said um they've the food hall he's talking about just right near waterloo station it has created an entirely entirely new environment there it's been fabulous um so i'm actually for all of that i have for multiple seating you gotta have seating um as always our code is about 10 years behind so we we need to bring it in because i think everybody likes them i'm not i'm not so popular not west atlantic is trickier i don't as long as they can do it and and and not interfere with what uh with with the neighbors that that's a great idea because there's a lot of residential components there a lot more heavily so than in in the cbd um and are we talking about trying to bring the food trucks south of george bush is that really what what what what because right now i think they're all they're all north of fourth right north of fourth so then the question is can the line move a little bit south without negatively negatively impacting other downtown businesses and at least a third so we can you know i'm not positive that go to food trucks are the ones that go to the restaurants anyway i'm sure there is some crossover but i think it's it's a usually it's a very different clientele you know the ones that i see anyway what about um just as a point of clarification and uh whatever the answer is it's fine i just want to be sure i have it right i understand the public parking spaces but in the west atlantic what about if there was an agreement with the city for using an on-street space unlike east atlantic the west atlantic on-street spaces tend to be open they would obviously be liability and an agreement that would be required but is that something we could look at or don't go there i would look at that but again i think we have to do it as a pilot so well we're talking about a pilot program okay just making sure we weren't yeah no no we're talking about a pilot program i think i would do that in a pilot program to see how it works i mean wait church parking there's not going to be activity there for yeah come back you know kind of what we all i mean i think everybody really wants this we just we don't know as well as you know what the guidelines probably could or should or should not be mostly we just need to erase but you know that we can we can so that's that sounds great that sounds great and for all my friends all my other restaurant friends i didn't mean it about the bolognese sauce yes so no one failed to mention the award-winning short rib lasagna that's in one of these trucks that i love that's the place anyway thank you all very much we have you have you have you do we need anything else are we all set on that direction great you got direction let's see what the pilot program is all perfect okay we're moving on to the discussion of the free ride services that will be missy barletta won't it be there you sure you can they can leave thank you thank you thank you thank you guys i will i will there's no waving at you oh bye-bye guys see you are you all set miss barletta good afternoon mayor and commissioners um i'm here to to talk a little bit about um free ride services in the city so the history of the current program we have um we have a program with with um be free which operates on the road as free b and this has been in place since september of 2019 with the cra that began those point-to-point transportation services in 2022 the cra transferred the program to the city and the city issued an rfp for fixed and point-to-point transportation services and the only bid that we received at that time was from freebie or be free however you want to say it okay so um there was a lot of discussion about how to structure the program during that rfp award there were six different transportation options that were brought forward whether we wanted to use the gem cars which is what we have there now the glorified golf carts um and teslas was one of the original um options um and to do the fixed route and the point-to-point service and expanding the service boundary to include the tri-rail station the com the commission opted at that time to keep the existing service boundary and the gem vehicles the same and reallocate additional funds needed at that time to expand those services to the renovations at the crest theater so that is the the kind of the history of how we got to where we are in budget years since 2022 commission consensus has remained steady to keep the current service boundary however at our recent goal setting session you asked us to look into expanding the service and bringing different forms of transportation and that's what we're going to talk about today currently there are five gem vehicles that serve the delray beach service boundary these are low speed vehicles which means they are restricted by statute from being able to travel on roads with speed limits of 35 miles per hour or more so they can only go on lower speed streets which is why we with this type of vehicle in in the inventory we cannot at this time include the tri-rail station ride requests are required to either pick up or drop off at a location within the central downtown core so ridership reports there's a lot of discussion about how long the wait is to get a ride 52 percent of wait times were between zero and 15 minutes 90 percent of the riders are requested through the online app for freebie the average driver rating is 4.9 or 5 that's the average rating the most common pickup and drop off locations are the two and three hundred blocks of east atlantic avenue in the entertainment district and the 1200 block of east atlantic avenue in the beach district most of the users for the freebie service are 21 to 35 years of age and the second um the second largest user group are those that are 35 to 50 years of age so this is um this is one of the reports that we get on a regular regular basis this is the ridership just for april of this year um there were 4056 completed rides during the month of april the average driver rating was 4.94 the total passengers in those 4 000 rides were 800 were 8891 this map shows the existing um the existing freebie service there are a few things on here the the green the bright green spring green color on the map shows the existing cra service area that we've chosen to retain since 2022 the downtown core is hatched in that turquoise color the potential expansion areas are marked in the the kind of yellow cream cream cream color and uh and the lsv the low speed vehicle restricted routes are marked in red up there you ready for me to move on okay please all right so the current program the original gym vehicles were wrapped with delray beach until approval to allow advertising came from commission in order to subsidize the costs of the service so this is what they look like originally on the left and then how they look now on the right and there is still a city of delray beach logo on it although small so one of the things that we wanted to talk to you tonight about is about bringing an enhanced program um there are a number of different vehicles that freebie has available to us to use more recently they've started using the new volkswagen id buzz which is an electric um um volkswagen bus reminiscent of the 1960s version of the vw bus and currently they have more than 50 in service in other areas so some of the benefits for the city to moving from the gym cars to the id bus are that they have a much higher battery range than the gym three times greater they they provide climate control inside the cabin so you're not you know riding out in the the air if it's raining or whatever they have a higher seating capacity they're resilient to severe weather and they have service area flexibility since it's not a low speed vehicle plus they have a higher safety rating so in addition to that freebie over the years has expanded their technology capabilities they can customize that based on the needs of the city however we we wish to do that if um there have been times when we've utilized the freebie app to promote events downtown or to direct people to different different activities that the city might be sponsoring examples of some of that include um some of the the sim in seminole county they have a scout system which has completely replaced their former bus system with the id buzz and in the um the app where they can call the the the buzz to come and pick them up here's a picture of what their scouts look like and uh and a typical uh wait time by hour for that service in seminole county which you know is adjacent to orange county and growing growing by the day so other technology capabilities include creating a fair based system with fairs based on zone or distance traveled providing student senior discounts resident discounts low income fair reductions i know that you are not interested in a fair based system but i did want you to know that it is available if that is a future choice eligibility of discounts can be verified through the freebie app so some of the questions that that we have for you as far as determining the determining the path arrived for services moving forward at goal setting you had a lot of there was a lot of talk there were a lot of ideas that were put out there as far as expanding the freebie service to cover the entire city limit and pick no limit on pick up and drop off location or whether we wanted to target certain um business areas for expansion in order to do some economic development on that front um some of the questions we have for you as staff so that we can bring you the the program that you're really looking for is um i actually have a proposal for you tonight to ex to expand the service from what we currently have which costs us five hundred and eight thousand dollars a year to replacing all of the gym cars with the id buzz cars and including the tri rail station that just to give you for discussion purposes to give you an idea it would be the same number of vehicles but we would increase the service area to include all of atlantic avenue to congress and then to the tri rail station and that comes at an increased cost to the city of seventy one thousand dollars whether you want us to bring that forward in the coming budget year or if you're looking for additional items to add into that proposal list that we can bring back to you for adoption is that seventy one thousand for the year yes that's an annual cost yes it's an increase of 71 000 over what we're currently paying okay would you like to start uh commissioner malica yes thank you i would have a great interest in expanding it i have no problem in um fairbase you said that that we might i have zero problem with the fairbase system depending on what it is but i think there's a whole big picture that we need to see just beyond what we've always done to what can possibly be my interest in moving it to the tri well or even beyond and possibly find parking hubs is to relieve congestion and relieve parking and um i think that we can do this with this kind of a program whether it's something we pay for or whether it's fairbase but we have to see what all is out there in my opinion um so i do think an rfp would be appropriate to see what other companies there are what do they have to bring what can they save us or how much it costs so i would like to expand um what we've done and look look around and i did speak with um um whatever company he's sorry and that's that's i mean there's some good companies that i've looked into that i think could bring this city some some more ideas about how to move forward great thank you very much commissioner burns yes yes so definitely interested in expanding the service um however when you talked about going through and expanding the service that did not include an rfp correct no ma'am the current um the current contract has renewals available on it and the current provider is willing to um provide whatever services you're interested in expanding to and and but we don't know what those are because i heard you say they have expanded technology capabilities however um i didn't see or hear what they were however you know like uh commissioner malica i did talk to some others and you know i i heard things like connecting to the bus schedule um connecting their schedules to the bus schedule pre-scheduling rides um knowing where the empty parking lots parking spaces are um just lots of different things that we're not getting now and i would like to see you know are we getting the best price that we how do we know that five five hundred that whatever that eight thousand dollar a year is at the best price so um really i think that we need to expand it um to tri-rail but um interested to see what else is out there and available i'll be quick i'm very much in favor missy of expanding what we have i i think the service is well used right now i think it could be even better i think expanding the train station makes all the sense of the world i agree with what commissioner malica said um it could relieve some of the congestion in the parking that we have downtown which we we would we would all love to do so my my ask would be that that we um we look at all available options and then you come back to us with with what you found including costs and then let's make a decision i think this this one's a no-brainer that we want to do something we just need to figure out who the right partner is my view so are you asking for an rfp i think an rfp would be good thank you my only concern and i've always felt like we need to expand because i it's um not it doesn't seem right to have every taxpayer paying for it and then only some can utilize it that's always bothered me and what you're talking about here when you're expanding is the same number of vehicles so you're expanding your area but you're going to slow down your weight you're going to have a lot more wait time right because these vehicles have a three times larger um capacity oh gotcha so you've got multiple so you're picking up a lot more availability by not being on a charger so often understood so again two to the fare based um idea well first i'll i hate that i want to expand the area but i think we need to expand through the whole city if the taxpayers are paying for this in fairness i don't think there's anything wrong with doing fare based if it's a small fare three dollar ride you know or two dollars a person or something like that so and if because if you have people coming in from out of the area they're going to utilize that the taxpayers are going to utilize it i think if it's a small fee people will be happy to pay it um we um when we're talking about expanding obviously i think wait time is important to us uh and yes i i think if we're expanding we're obviously going to the tri rail so i guess i think you've got three people saying go out and let's create an rfp and see what's out there i also met with the gentleman mr um logan mcleod and you know i think there are other options and i think the freebie service has been amazing for us they've been a great um you know they provided a fabulous service i've been very happy with them but it's not unreasonable to just see what's out there and see what works for our residents at the best price we can get thank you thank you um my colleagues have covered much of what i was going to cover let me just let me just say that one of the things we did discuss at goal setting and the point was made that all of the taxpayers actually pay for this so it really is incumbent on us to to have this available throughout the city now there may be i'm still i still believe that the pickup and or drop off needs to be downtown which is what we're trying to support so but if you're out in um banyan creek for example should you be should that be a fair base thing maybe you should maybe a small amount but i don't want to be going from banyan creek to to my house for because that doesn't that for me that that's not what the purpose of this this trip is it's to really bring people to and from downtown to relieve the parking pressures we have downtown which are which are pretty heavy um so the expansion of service to me throughout the city is really key um and i i i think that since we are talking now about and obviously to to to the tri-rail station that was a given we used to have that i don't understand why we lost it but anyway we did but now we'll hopefully get it back soon um we're really talking about 200 or so expansion of the current service area which i think really suggests that we do need an rfp for because it's it is a much bigger project and i'm not this is nothing you know casting spurge is on freebie server i'm sure it's a great service but i would like to see what else is out there because technologies have changed there's a lot of other expertise out there i have not met with this gentleman but i mean i know his types of companies others exist so i think we should hear from them as mr marker said get let's let's explain let's see what the options are what you know what we are and let's decide what we want to go out with with an rfp and go out with the rfp and you know see what we can generate and if it has to include some fare based to offset cost you know two it's it's i'd pay two to three dollars so i don't have to go look for a parking spot i got to tell you so it's just it's and if i and i don't know it's 15 minute at the ready wait that they're going to take me home that's great three bucks to get me home that's perfect so whatever the fair base you're gonna have to calculate what you think that number is what's the fair number um and maybe maybe there's no charge of its intracore maybe if they're already downtown and they're going down down like from where you talked about the 300 block of atlantic to to the beach maybe maybe that one's free it's what's the one coming in and out of the downtown is really what we're talking about in my view about the fair base if they're already downtown running around yeah i feel differently about there there was some discussion about at goal setting about expanding to other business areas of the city so instead of just only limiting the the either pickup or drop off location to the downtown core is there interest in creating that for the linton boulevard core the congress avenue or or even the military i mean i think i think we should look at i think we should look at all i think this is going to be a city-wide service we have to figure out where we want our pickups and drop-offs to be and then and they're good i will tell you there i understand the capacity of the vehicles are are greater but i i don't see how you do this program with six vehicles but that's always a function of or five vehicles or three i'm just saying that's that's why i want to see an rfp i want to see somebody come back tell me this is what we're proposing the average wait time is going to be this it's going to cost this and but we're going to be able to service all these people and i think that's you know so the other question about that if we're going to start considering fares are we also going to continue to allow the vehicles to offset the cost to the city by doing by selling advertising i don't think we know that yet yeah i mean we are doing it already right yeah i mean every every city i've been in the taxi cabs have something on the top so you know i mean and the id buzz in those cars they have like a little television screen on the back so the the wrap would still be more this is a delray city provided does anybody have any issue with that i mean i i liked when the vehicles when people understood that that's a service the city is providing i like that so i think the only problem is they offset a lot of the costs 14 it's a 14 but we're also not right now we're not charging people right so i think we need to look at it just to see and then on the charging thing i just got to throw this in let's not over complicate this one let's learn our lessons from downtown parking that no one understands i mean we just we need to we can't have a complicated ride system i mean we just can't do that but i'm not i'm not i'm not against um you know the wraps on the on the vehicles or naming rights on buildings i'm not against any of that and i think we should look at it because it it does serve to offset a lot of costs that all of us in this room are going to have to write a check for at the end of the year if we can't offset those costs so i think if it's done tastefully it doesn't bother me now i see this in other places too with the every fifth frame is going to be a some downtown event or handling so delray's promoting itself in these places so there's a lot of ways to promote your own city promote what you're doing while at the same time let the let the the cabbie uh whatever we're calling them um you know make some money off the running of the vehicle so okay i just would like to add i don't know who would look for this or if we're allowed but i would like to see a parking area because um the tri-rail doesn't allow a large enough parking area beyond the tri-rail customer so is there ever a possibility of the county building the south county building allowing us to have a parking hub there i would have an interest in not only a point to point but maybe a route system where i know i'm going to park here i'm going to get picked up at whatever whatever so i know i just threw a wrench into not really if we're going to go out for an r rfp we can also include that um that original route that we had from tri-rail to downtown okay thank you any possibility of looking into any other parking areas people could drive there park there and get pick up the uh the the the transportation there that would be great but we need a parking spot i'm saying we see if we can negotiate whether or not people could park there and they pick up the uh uh who does that negotiation huh well no that's the county we it's not no i know but i mean who's the city would have to engage and connect with pine beach county regarding those possibilities so as the selection process ensues we would make that part of the consideration process not to mention we would employ interested parties to employ whatever ingenuity they can to help us evaluate what options might be necessary so that does connect and to some extent that's a possibility however given the relationship with palm beach county we would be in position to engage with them in terms of any logistical arrangements we would make to facilitate that really the possibility may be to advise palm beach county that hey we hope to utilize this particular location with no problems people can park with people actually park there to ride the tri-rail train so it would be a similar practice in this regard to connect with the this particular service as well so it may not be that challenging however once we initiate the selection process as being directed this evening we would make that part of the mix thank you you're welcome thank you everybody you know what you're doing we're good thank you very much good job missy thank you you'll have this all this for us next meeting uh no no at five o'clock i'll have it for you sometime in the next year oh there we go let's try to do it earlier anyway uh this is ws4 this is a discussion regarding the expansion of the entertainment district so i think as um you consider this item i wanted to make it oh there we go um kind of clear about what is the entertainment district because i think there's some perceptions that i want to make sure everyone's really clear on what it does the entertainment district allows for higher noise levels um later into the evening it does not change the uses that are allowed on the site it doesn't change the review process for what's allowed on the site it's simply the noise level and how late into the day so it's louder longer that's the key louder longer so right now this is the current boundary of the um entertainment district and it's basically the core of downtown um this is the louder part and the news new noise ordinance you can see that during active hours there are decibel limitations for different uses and then all uses within the entertainment district have a slightly higher amount and doesn't matter if it's residential commercial or whatever and then quiet hours are also a little bit louder so quiet hours in the rest of the city pretty much start at 10 o'clock if you are in the entertainment district you get to go until midnight on weekdays and then this this really was really weird to try to describe and then saturday night until 1 a.m sunday morning and friday night until 1 a.m saturday morning so um you and then everybody starts again at seven in the morning the next day so it's louder longer um it does not automatically allow anyone to have a late night business in the city all businesses are allowed to operate until midnight if you want to go later than that um then you uh we evaluate your location and if you are within 300 feet of residentially zoned property not a residential use because some of our our downtown has lots of residential uses in it but there's your zone central business district then you need a conditional use so here's an example uh this property right here at the corner of southeast first and the northbound federal this is within the entertainment district now to be clear this property is not trying to do anything if they're watching you're just a locational example they do not have an application in nothing like that but if they wanted to be open after midnight they would have to come before this board for conditional use because they are within 200 feet of rm zoning so it has to do with your location it's not um so now they can be louder until midnight right then this property right here that is not in the entertainment district or this one or this one but it's um it's still your your business hours are the same if you're so when you're looking about expanding to the west atlantic area it's important to note that the um the existing entertainment district is sort of surrounded by mixed juice zoning there's a couple spots here where you know it's bumping right up against rm and what's different with the block structure as you go west is the same block moves into single family pretty quickly right so there's transitions and compatibility over the activity levels just that you should be mindful of when you're making this decision um the set master plan again wanted to see entertainment and hospitality clusters restaurants music clubs and theaters within the mixed use zoning those uses are already allowed you can have a restaurant you can have a bar you can have a theater all bars in the city are subject to 750 feet separation requirement and there are state separation requirements from schools so if you're looking at the west atlantic area any of the dark green which is the central business district you can have those uses um on fifth which is the historic main street of the neighborhood you can already have those uses you have a restaurant you have a bar you have a theater if you are along atlantic avenue you have required retail frontage that's meant to be very lively those are some of the uses that are allowed to be there that are required like you can't have office quite as much and then if you're in this area where now the block is transitioning to residential the current rules require a conditional use for commercial uses those of you that were on the commission will remember i believe a restaurant on the north side i'm near mr hatcher's building had to get conditional use because now you're kind of next door to people's homes and are you gonna have a parking issue like you want to evaluate the impacts so um and the reason for this is just that again the block structure is very different it moves into homes um we have pulled a bunch of the team pulled um some information on where um these more lively uses historically have been um over time and they've sort of gone away because this became a fire station for example that's the fire station where before it had restaurants and bars and billiard roots social clubs generally are not allowed downtown anymore anywhere it's not unique to west atlantic bottle clubs are not permitted anywhere so some of those sort of older fashion you know type of uses are not really allowed downtown at all um so i think the consideration on expanding just so you're very clear if you expand the um entertainment district you're allowing the noise levels to go up you're letting the noise to be louder you're not necessarily eliminating a conditional use process if the site is within 300 feet of of mixed use i mean i'm sorry of residential zoning which these areas do tend to shift into pretty quickly um all bars in the city cannot be closer than 750 feet to another bar within 300 feet of a school that's also a state law for the 300 feet to a school um so this neighborhood organically does have some limitations just you know in terms of there being churches and schools so closely um however this body has considered waivers from the distance separation between alcohol establishments before on a case-by-case basis downtown this would still be an available process there um and so i think if you are considering the differences now that we have the noise ordinance adopted um do we want to have a different approval process not only for if you expand it to west atlantic but for the downtown like maybe we establish a less expensive minor conditional use process where we all agree that certain livelier uses you know are okay you can have outside music or something like that we can look at that um so i think uh right now the question is whether you want to make the louder longer rules i think it's the easiest way to think of it available on west atlantic or um not with the understanding this rule is not part of the west atlantic you know of the entertainment district itself i hope that's clear as mud i hope i got it um i'm here if you have any questions okay um well let me let me just start i was actually part of the whole process when the first when the entertainment district was founded and it was designed to try to bring everybody downtown and it did a great job but at the time it was put in place there were really no residential properties we didn't have to worry about that because there was no residential properties fast forward to today i do understand why west atlantic wants to have an entertainment district they want to be able to do certain things in the entertainment district but it's not the same comparison it's not when they say we want the same and we want the same it's not the same because those neighborhoods are generational neighborhoods that are residential neighborhoods and you know they bought these homes with the understanding that they were going to live in a residential in and around a residential area so all of a sudden say oh by the way a block and a half away we're going to allow this this this this facility to have music till two o'clock in the morning we hope you're okay with that yeah you know i i i i i just don't see that so but but i'm not opposed to moving an entertainment district there i just don't know that i want to adopt the same one we have now which includes monday tuesday wednesday thursday you know i mean we're talking about a weekend you know i feel a lot of differently about this is me i feel differently if you're talking about a weekend um but i do think that the hours of operation need to be watched carefully because as i said these when everybody moved downtown knew they were moving into an entertainment district and we say to them well you know you move next to the airport you're gonna have planes i mean it's that that happens so that's my only concern and and i because the noise level is is the noise level and and i just want to try to keep the integrity in in of the of the residential neighborhoods as best i can while at the same time encouraging because i don't want to be not encouraging and i'm not trying to discriminate against he said well you know you don't want to make it more favorable downtown than it is here but they are not they are not apples to apples they are two separate communities and they've always been two separate communities it's a residential community but anyway that's my two cents commissioner cassell yes sure thank you and i agree and the last time we talked about this i said i have concerns about this and i say that only because i sat up here when people were coming in every meeting and complaining about music um so the question is how do we you know encourage businesses it's just i want to be clear we're approving louder longer but they still everybody would still have to come before us for a conditional use or we can change it to a minor use for you to review will that include outside use it would also be a conditional use that they'd have to ask for right would this get i mean so there are specific outside uses in the code right now like sidewalk cafe having nursery plants things like i'm talking music but any other outside uses like when boston's wanted i think it's boston's that's on a1a or else it's the business right next to it when they wanted their outside use area they had to get a conditional use approval anyway because that use is not listed as one of the ones that are just by right like sidewalk cafe or nursery plants right so there's that's another tier right it could be your inside and you can be louder it's louder it doesn't bother me so much it's outside it's different maybe that would just still fall to conditional use and if you're open at all past midnight again it's locational it depends you know this property that's right bordering single family would absolutely need conditional use i don't know that this one would depending on we would we measure them we do a buffer from them when they come in and we just say well you're within which if you think back to bounce right right bounce was trying to come into atlantic crossing but they were within 300 feet of palm trail right bounce went over into the delray beach market they are not 300 feet within any residentially zoned property they did not require conditional use to go there right understood so that's kind of how it works everywhere what about because i'm i'm with the mayor on this if at all i'm very nervous about doing this but i understand that it's probably the necessary next step for development what about if we make the loud or not as loud the longer not as long as you're saying and do some restrictions because i can say to you from personal experience playing tennis out at the tennis center on a friday night i can hear loud and clear the music i can hear the drums you can hear everything and you know there does have to be some consideration of the people that are living in close proximity because they are there so i mean it's hard for me to gauge what is a five point increase in the decibel maybe we do it 65 in that area and we you know consider it to maybe end earlier on the weekdays so i think central business district not in the entertainment district falls under commercial so it's already right it's at 65 so i think it's maybe more it would be about expanding the active hours past um 10 p.m perhaps would be maybe it's more about that that you can go to midnight on friday and saturday nights right i don't i think that's totally reasonable friday and saturday night i can i i think it's a start we can see yeah i i i i i i i'm trying to creep my way to get here to see whether or not what we're doing isn't going to be i mean i don't want to establish something and have it like fall apart where we have to bring things back i'd rather grow into it to see we're going to try this and if it works we can say well maybe we can expand it so i i don't know commissioner are you finished commissioner yes thank you yeah well i don't believe that we have to walk anything back um i support extending the district um i just believe that it's a matter of fairness and equity and keeping promises to our community um businesses and and residents west of swinton should have the same opportunities to benefit from the same policies the same incentives uh and the same vibrancies that have helped businesses thrive on the east side um those homes that i know that it does transition to a residential but they're still going to be residential it's not going to change and businesses are only going to be where businesses are allowed to be and so we still have to as you say come to the commission for conditional use we still you're not eliminating any of those um those rules so you're making it louder and longer the same way that it is on the east side and i i'm in favor of that uh whether we crawl into it or not that that's okay but i think that we we need to move forward with making these changes and including um west of swinton in this entertainment district can i just ask a point of clarification um commissioner burns was talking about this the business i don't think the business the types of businesses are not with the entertainment district doesn't give you the ability to run a different kind of a business or not i mean we're just talking about hours of operation because i mean what you can do in the cbd on west atlantic you can do in the cbd east atlantic i mean it's the same business so what we're really talking about is the hours of operation and you know of and music and noise levels coming out of a facility is that and to be clear not all of cbd is in this is in the entertainment district correct i mean so when you start getting further north and you're out of the core you know the entertainment district doesn't include atlantic crossing for example it doesn't include the a1a properties so um and then as you go south down and north of dixie where it transitions more quickly into palm trail and the other neighborhoods it's not there um the out i think the based on my experience here in the city the bigger issues are when it's an outside activity like pop stroke which is also not in the entertainment district but we heard a whole lot of people coming out to complain and you know acoustics are tricky so i think my my i would just caution you to uh against sort of like letting the outside uses get away from us because that's where we have the the issues right and the conditional use process allows you to pull them back in or force some level of action if there's a problem so this is again inside uses um that you know we could allow again this isn't everywhere and on the east side so i don't think it's fair to characterize it that way either if we're saying it's on atlantic avenue it's still not everywhere on atlantic avenue because once you go past six it's not there either and it still won't be in every place on west of atlantic avenue either that's the way i see it and when i'm referring to the businesses i'm talking about the millions of dollars of redevelopment that's coming down west atlantic avenue for any potential business that may open in that to have so that they have that same opportunity and i think you also have to recognize that the way the neighborhood grew historically is that fifth is the main street so fifth is you know that's where we want to also encourage more activity and it does transition quickly into single family and residential but this that's how this neighborhood grew so if they're i want to see more of it back is are we talking about fifth as well or just staying on the ave i think those are the questions too wait are you talking about northwest fifth northwest and southwest fifth are the historic main street so when you look at where the businesses were located right i think it would definitely have to go up fifth avenue fifth is fifth is the traditional main street like there's no point in doing it if we don't look at the avenue sorry so this is the 1950s you'd have to include fifth avenue just like we include pineapple grove right yeah gotta go north and south yeah so it's not just here so i think that and i actually that i i concur you can't take away the the the classic main street that's something maybe even more important place to do it if you're gonna try to move forward with that so um commissioner judy had a comment yeah i i think um one of the things that kind of confuses me is we're developing west atlantic i want to promote lively entertainment i want to go all the way down the avenue but we're also talking about residential in there putting residential in some of the parcels and i don't understand i feel like those two aren't are kind of mutually exclusive if that is the plan to have residential on atlantic then do you want a bar right there open until two in the morning so i'm i'm confused about that but i guess that 300 feet rule would rule that out is that right it wouldn't because it's 300 feet from residentially zoned property not residential uses that are located within the central business district and that does get tricky you're right thank you so i know the community has definitely wants this i want it but have the homeowners been asked has there been a study done with individual with people within that area of individual homes i don't know if there has been that's that's where i was actually going to go because i think if we are when i talked about we do dealing with a lot of legacy neighborhoods here uh generational people living you know the same house um i i i actually think we ought to reach out to them and see what they want i mean whether they would be happy with i live there i'm cool with it but i'm down i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm always drawn because i love the idea of doing it i think it'd be good for developing businesses on the corridor um and you know i mean there are people getting off i-95 correctly so they're passing a lot of business if they see when they stop they can stop they like they can enjoy it and everyone win-win i'm just worried about the noise five days you know seven days a week i mean i have my thinking is different if i'm talking friday and saturday than i'm talking tuesday and wednesday can i can just real quick i'm probably going to say what what's been said but i i went to all the residence meetings over the past couple of years on west atlantic you know we've been looking at different different options there and i heard pretty clearly from the residents and i feel for them that have houses there because that those neighborhoods are very close to the street there that they are and i i know how i would feel if you know i'm trying to raise a family and suddenly there's a ton of loud music and stuff so i i think putting some caps on what we can and can't do makes a lot of sense and i i also hope that you know as we grow west atlantic that we can not have the density for some of the bars in particular that that tend to have outside music and things like that i think we think we got to be be careful and be respectful to the neighbors that are there because that's they're close i mean they're really close there and i think we gotta we gotta look out for them and we have to ask them yeah yeah so so maybe they take because we can't assume anything for anyone we have to ask them okay that's what i said i i i agree no i'm i'm i'm commenting off of what i heard commissioner market say fair point so maybe i'll reach out to our partners at the CRA to help me um speak to the property owners and the residents um and then we'll circle back be interested in going they're listening i'll do it on the one that i have scheduled for the 15th i'll do it 15th of june july i'll be here good i'll work with renee jadison from the CRA and we'll go back out and commissioner burns is going to make this the topic of her july 15th burning conversation so we'll get a lot of neighborhood input yes thank you renee alerting the city attorney that i intend to go so there will at least end up one more commission so if you could notice it please notice it because i do think it's important for as many people as possible to hear what the community wants to do really it's anyway are we finished we are finished we are adjourning