good afternoon everyone welcome to the workshop meeting of the city of Delray Beach this Tuesday January the 20th if the clerk would please call the roll Commissioner Marker here Commissioner Casale deputy vice mayor Burns here now Carney here thank you very much we're going to start with public comments is there any there are going to be any comments on any of the agenda items that we are having you as part of our agenda today please get up and come to the lectern you will each have three minutes seeing none that's a good start great public comments is closed first item is is a request by mr. Michael Weiner who has now graced us with his presence I said that for the record Michael so people you know know you weren't I know you only be sitting there for an hour I know this is a request by Michael S. Weiner of SAC Saxon Kaplan for the approval to submit a privately initiated text amendment to the comprehensive plan and the land developer regulations to add townhouse development subject to medium density residential zoning district to the to the general commercial zoning district and to adopt regulations for such use mr. Weiner thank you mayor I can't hear to my off are we going to is I did have a small presentation I don't know if it's loaded short or small does that mean I need a both I can't explain without it but and I'm sorry I didn't remind you to to load it but it was I don't think I don't think we received it mr. Weiner why don't you just I'll give it used to winging it so I will continue to do so and everyone here is is local so I know that they know where bondway and federal highway is yes so you're with me oh attorney gallon I have no idea for quasi-judicial or we're not I don't care so so all that we're doing today is mr. Weiner is going to give you a short preview of the application he would like to submit to the city for a comp plan amendment and a text amendment to the code what he is seeking is consensus from he needs three of you to just give him the nod that it's okay right now he can't even submit an application because of what he wishes to do and so that's why he's here today so this is not quasi judicial you can make your pitch and then if there's any questions for staff they're here to answer and by the way any affirmative vote here is not an affirmative vote for the project or any of the proposals so let me just just let me in there's no vote this is a workshop so we don't vote at a workshop they're just gonna give a nod so a nod is not a vote in favor of the project you're just looking for approval to make your formal pitch later yes thank you so much so I'll try to keep it short and and and it's nice to be in a relaxed atmosphere so we all know where where bondway and federal highway is bondway is if I couldn't tell you a little bit about what the present zoning and land use map shows so along federal highway that's general commercial and I'll talk a little bit more about that in a moment behind it immediately behind it is residential zoned property it's it's really an unusual place because we'll get into the federal highway plan which I think I'm really not wasting your time on you'll hear that plan is now 26 years old and federal highways changed a lot I'll go through that real quickly for you but this particular project it's good that my program isn't up I can probably go faster this particular project is is is really shows how far we've come with respect to North Federal Highway and I believe that the reason that you'll give me a nod is that you'll have an interest as well as my client this is owned by mr. Greco this property mr. Greco's investment in Delray Beach Florida's is six figures it's it's his home base it's his hometown I don't think I would have been hired to do this kind of thing if he didn't think that he was going to be improving what the outcome of North Federal Highway will be for himself and and and his children so so he has some passion for this so behind it we have split zoning general commercial in the front we've got residential in the back this residential zoning is is unusual in Delray it sits in a area that on the future land use map is residential medium but it is zoned residential low and unlike almost any other place in in Delray it is called out in the code that even though you are in residential medium you can't go up to residential medium you have to stay at residential low it makes bondway in that area different and unique in anywhere else freezing zoning forever not always the best idea so just just hold on to that for a moment general commercial is is interesting hold on let me see what else I can skip in my presentation to get you right to the meat of things if you've been by there the plaza that is up presently built in the 60s and 70s is is certainly in need of something I you know what I found interesting there's a there's one of the tenants is called sandy hook bait shop what's that that's all right I don't mind being interrupted at all and and and no that's okay and and your your knowledge because we're not doing quasi judicial your knowledge of the area is not a problem at all I just thought it was interesting that a bait shop should have such a name in year 2025 but bless them I'm I'm sure they do all right yes a lot longer than that um so what stands in the way of this and and we're only asking for one more unit than we could otherwise get there we could get three in the back and three in the front we're only asking for seven and I don't have a picture of the plan because I don't have it here I don't have a picture of of what we would be proposing but it is a very nice townhouse project with a substantial amount of landscaping area along federal highway so what stands in the way is that the federal highway redevelopment plan in 1999 that stands in the way in two places on on page 12 there's a talk about the area being intended for small parcels of land that are suited to small-scale retail service and office uses long before Linton don't forget this is 99 actually the plan was started in 1996 and only got adopted in 99 long before Linton long before Atlantic Avenue was the star that it is and in an era where Amazon hadn't even begun to sell books yet let alone be a commercial force that has to be reckoned with in terms of land planning in the year 2025 we thought somehow or another on your way to Walmart you'd be stopping at some small commercial places you know what I really let me give a compliment out I think this is this is great this is the 99 plan in recent years many dilapidated structures have been eliminated the former drug treatment center rusty anchor restaurant were demolished the former tadpole lounge the former adult bookstore the former trailer park the swap shop and the Miller Dodge site were all redeveloped now that was even before the plan but it was obvious Delray was motoring long we got rid of some really difficult uses even before the plan and now the plan was looking at a pre Amazon redevelopment that had no idea the force in place that residential development would take us to in 2025 I hope that wasn't for me it is oh really am I am I I didn't even know I was timed if I could have two minutes for for summary done so what we're dealing with here is we know that there are some things that stand in the way we we just we just need a nod to be able to take a look at the North Federal Highway I think there are tremendous differences over the last quarter of a century that we have it behooves us that even if you reach a different conclusion that we take a look at the one place in Delray that is East that hasn't really been touched for more than 25 years and is obviously wrong in that they have not taken into consideration some large forces both of the marketplace and both of what the what people prefer for a plan love this picture for a plan that we can be proud of as we head towards the year 2050 so that was abbreviated thank you very much I don't know if you have questions but I'm hoping I can get a nod thank you do we do we need staff to speak here I don't think so I don't really have in your position mr. Weiner and trying to make pitches for text amendments your mic on making text amendments and things such as that oh yeah but I was reclining in my chair I mean there's you know I'm gonna have moments of relaxation I didn't really like this rule when they when they proposed it a couple years ago because I think that people who want to make a pitch in front of the Commission of their ideas should have the ability to do so and for to require everyone to do this new process I understand it saves can I guess prevent people from wasting time on frivolous kinds of things but generally speaking I think that people should have the right to mean we actually I am NOT so arrogant to believe that I that we can't get great ideas from the public when they come for come across this stuff so is that for me I mean my wife does it at home for me so I mean I'm just used to it so I mean that's just you're right but what I think I mean I think people should have the right to make the pitch and that doesn't mean I'm gonna vote for the pitch but I certainly don't want to deprive somebody of the right to make the pitch and as I said I'm not that fond of this rule requiring people to come in and do that you know I think two would have been okay now three I thought was kind of you don't even get that at the Supreme Court we require the majority of Supreme Court to take a take to take a case huh now there's not under the rules now three while you were gone when the Commission they established that rule so my view is I'd like I don't know what the rest of your pitch is gonna look like and I don't see any graphics but I mean my view is I am in favor of you making the you know putting forth the application making the pitch as I said I don't know if I'm gonna like it dislike it or whatever but I don't want to deprive you the right to make the pitch so that's what I think the rest of the Commission well if we're only agreeing on him making a pitch I don't have a problem with that's all we're agreeing but keep in mind there is first of all the whole idea of having this policy is there's a number of things one it saves us time it's two it saves an applicant money he's is he gonna pay in an application fee and I'm not meaning you just as an example come in front of us and then be denied they're they're getting there's a benefit to being denied up front and it saves someone time and money I'm frankly not interested in this I apologize and I'm going to say no and I do like having a policy in place where people have to get us to agree to hear something I don't think people everything should be heard and I think that was done as to streamline it's so staff isn't having you imagine staff having to work on projects the fee comes in staff spend countless months on a project and it comes in front of us and it gets denied and that has happened where the denial was across the board so that's the reason for this is to help save our staff time us time and the applicant time and money and I think it's fair and reasonable to keep the rule in place my opinion is I don't want to be a commission of exceptions and we get more and more and more of these so we set up rules and we set up guidelines and then everybody wants an exception and exceptions are costing the city a heck of a lot of money I mean a little bit of our time up here but those folks in the back room I mean they got to go through these requests they got to consider it they got to think about it they got to mull it over you know and I just think at some point rather than having everybody have the right to have an exception that we ought to change our policies to what is inbounds and what's out of bounds and I don't know why we're not spending our time on that so I struggle with all the exceptions that come before the Commission I I we've established ground rules and people need to adhere to the ground rules and if we don't like the ground rules and let let's change the rules of the game so that we don't waste your time and we don't waste the time of the staff in the back so I'm in favor of sitting down and changing the rules but I'm not in favor forever having everybody having the right to come back and request an exception because that that is not economically good for I agree with you I agree with you changing the rule because I think as I said by preface my remarks by saying I don't think it's a good rule this particular center which he's talking about which has the sandy hook which I go to I think I'm the only one up here that actually goes to this okay well I mean I I go and I know them pretty well and I know that Dwayne Randolph has this place there I know it's a tiny little site with a not a very attractive building and that it's too small to really do anything with because you don't have enough parking to go to a second story to do anything with to improve the property and you know that I think this is a very good request and all I'm asking my fellow commissioners I understand you want to change the rule and maybe we should start that process soon but in the meanwhile you know you've got people that are trying to process applications and it's just as I said it used to always be one and it got mentioned to three because we can say that staff didn't want to do it we can say that the commission didn't want to do it whatever we want to do it point is we are depriving the public of the opportunity to make a pitch and if they want to take the risk on the dollars then they're taking the risk on the dollars we've made it very clear we're not going to vote for that you know we're not doesn't the voting for this does not mean we're going to support the project but to deprive people from the right to make a to make an application I I think is just unfair but the mayor where do you draw the line right well that's why we have this is this is a line drawn in in that's why erasable ink there's there is no line no the line is that that's why we have a process where people can get all right I think I'm a no right now so but but I want to I'm not done so but where I'm at is where if we have a process should we not be following it and not allowing everybody who wants to have an exception to that is that rule to be able to come before us and chew up our staff time I think because other than that it's chaos every single person who wants to do something that falls outside of our rules is gonna knock on our door here and I look like we're gonna invest the damn time let's do it unchanging we talk about two separate issues let's address this issue first and then did you have something you wanted to add I just keep nodding and raising your hand okay so we have two separate issues right first we have the sponsorship provision in the code which is how mr. Weiner's here today so somebody's phone so that's how many he's here today so we we have to be careful when we're talking about waivers and variances right because we can't those are quasi judicial proceedings and we have to be mindful that if somebody needs a waiver or a variance like the mayor said they do have the ability to come forward as part of their project and make that request and we always have to keep an open mind that's not what mr. Weiner is here to do today so today he wants to make a change the code and so you know and mayor you and I we can we can have our own offline conversation of how this came to be you know mr. Weiner does his due diligence right like he meets with everybody he discusses the projects and he does a due diligence to before an application comes before the city commission unfortunately not everybody did that and so we were being presented and a lot of staff time was being taken to review projects that everybody knew including the commission was not going to have favor and so that's why this came in and there were some different renditions of this and now you do need three votes but what mr. Weiner is here today is he just needs three members of the commission to essentially allow him to submit an application to amend the comp plan and amend the code and so right now we're not talking about the project or the pretty pictures it's just whether or not the commission is interested in entertaining an amendment to the comprehensive plan and meant in a privately initiated because remember this isn't being done by staff this is being done privately to amend the code that was created by the by the constituents and by the city commission so I think we're talking about two separate things we can take direction to address the sponsorship issue but the the pressing issue today is mr. Weiner's request and I think we're just down to Commissioner market with if you're a yes or no could could I could could I make one statement I'm hoping we're in less formal situation this is precisely so we don't have to ask for an exception and this is an unusual request in that one unit it typically doesn't take this kind of change but someone has asked us to come forward we are talking about public policy and the denial of three nods would be denying your citizens an opportunity to knock on the door of government we have a boulder to push uphill I realize that but wasting is not what we're doing an exception is not what we're doing we know full well that not only do we have to prove that our project is a good project that's a completely different thing we have to go through all the site plan we're going to be planning it right down to the last bush that is going to be planted in any landscaping the question is is can someone knock on your door and say you know what I don't think Federal Highway North Railway is doing a pretty good very good job of getting on the bandwagon of where Delray is going it doesn't look like the rest of Delray why well no there's about motive rules and some things that just seem to get in the way they can still allow tobacco and whists whatever that is in in this area oh okay well I'd like to see something that because I see all of that great residential property going in north of George Bush Boulevard I want to do something different well the way we get in to be allowed to ask for a change in public policy not an exception not a variance not a waiver not any of that is we have to knock on the door of government honor to your system I just need to be able to make that presentation and at that time you'll say you know what I like I like the 1999 plan or you know what thanks I'm glad that we have citizens that are devoted to Delray who wanted to see what it is that North Federal Highway should look like in the first quarter of the 21st century that's it I've made my thing I just don't want to deprive people the opportunity to make their pitch so you're I guess we're depending on you yeah I'm a no sorry sorry sir thank you mr. Weiner so ladies and gentlemen the next item pertains to a development impact fee justification study prepared by DTA financial incorporated on behalf of the city of Derry Beach we made a commitment to offer considerations guidance effect via the proposed budget process for the current fiscal year and for that reason we are in position to offer considerations and an overview for city commission update with that we have representative from DTA financial incorporated who is with us please introduce yourself to the Commission and you've been working closely with assistant city manager Jeff Orris and other department directors to help align the brief overview you'll be providing at this time so please do mr. mayor commissioner thank you very much for having me my name is Richard Reese with DTA David Tazek and Associates and if I can start off I really enjoyed coming to visit your city it's it's a very nice place and I've had a good stay while I'm here we were assigned or we were tasked with putting together a development impact fee study and this is the nexus study I'm going to explain what development impact fees are and how they're used first off there as it says that there are one-time fees assessed to recover infrastructure costs for new development and the key is new development and if I can give an example let's say I'm a developer I'm going to build ten new homes well those ten new homes are going to bring in people new residents you're going to have new residents you can have property taxes sales taxes you're contributing to the city's GDP but those ten new homes will also result in what economists call negative externalities which means you're going to have additional strain on storm drain sewer water fire police as an example personal example my late mother was in a retirement home for her last year I used to go visit her and I talked to the firemen that were there the nursing home of the retirement home had about 500 units the fire department was there every single day sometimes a couple times a day so the addition of that retirement home put additional strain on all the city resources so that's what the development impact fee is designed to do it's designed to mitigate some of that cost and allocated to the developer who built it and that's what this Nexus study does and what we want to do it's it's kind of a sensitive calculation because you want another source of revenue but you do not want to discourage development so we're real careful on how we do this and that's what I'm going to present today these are the fees we're looking at a city administration fee police fire parks which is an update water sewer stormwater management facilities and so that's six fees and again that is new development nothing goes to existing development or anybody who's already a resident this is kind of the methodology we use to calculate this there are basically two in this study one is called the level of service we quantify in this study what your current level of service is we projected out 15 years to 2040 and say alright by 2040 to maintain that the same level of service this is the amount of revenue that needs to be collected this is how we calculate the fees so we do that for city admin police fire and parks water sewer and storm drain management we look at your city's capital improvement plan and we look at what's planned to be built and we allocate that between new and existing development and again these fees only go to new development nothing to existing development what we base this on city administration we call it person served it's the number of residents the number of employees and guests coming through we quantify those numbers and for a level of service we'll say it's we need so many buildings square feet so many acres so many vehicles per thousand person served parks we use acres per thousand residents water and sewer we use water sewage rates and gallons per day existing and projected through 2040 stormwater management we use stormwater runoff and we use impervious acres and impervious acres just means how much of this the rain water goes into the storm drain if you have a large project a large building covers most of the lot most of the rain water will go into the sewer it'll put a bigger burden on a same size of property we put a small house and a good portion of it goes into the grass or it goes into the dirt again we want to make it as fair as possible and these are we want to emphasize these are maximum calculated fees purpose of a nexus it says you can charge a fee at a level let's say 61% or 61 cents per square foot that means that's the maximum fee you can charge the city may say that's too high we may do 40 cents we may do 25 but we may do 15 that's your maximum fees if you look at the example the fee will vary this commercial example will vary on the size of the project the total fee will will vary but the fee per square foot will always be the same regardless of what the project is and we gave some examples the first one is the police development impact fee where do we get this information we look at everything you have we look at your your city's general plan we look at the demographics we put together how many people you have now what you're going to what's projected to grow to the facilities you have now what it's going to be projected to be and we determine what the fee is and we allocate this dollar amount among the fee categories covered in the study this is where the city gave us a lot of help they provided all of the information as an example in the fire department they gave us an Excel worksheet with almost 3,500 lines of equipment so we've quantified all of your buildings land and equipment and vehicles as best we can it should be very accurate this one's the water development impact fee again we look at the demographics and we divided it up into not person served or people but water flow both current and projected and we calculated the fee to new development residential and commercial and this these are the fees we the maximum fees we've calculated for city administration police fire and parks you can see the city admin police and fire are per square foot and again that's the maximum you could charge the same with the parks for water we broke it down into residential per unit commercial we do it per meter size and that's pretty much common across the state and we did that same type of calculation for sewer residential we did it by per unit commercial or non-residential we did it by per meter size the larger the meter size the larger the fee and again these are the maximum allowable fees right this is the stormwater calculation that's impervious fee per acre you see residential it's twenty four thousand thirty six that doesn't mean that's per unit that means it's per in pervious area if you have a large lot in a small little house your fee is going to be much smaller if it's non-residential it's the same thing again the larger the structure or the higher the fee is going to be this is an example it's a two thousand square foot house and a five thousand square foot lot a stormwater management fee would be seventeen thousand five hundred and twenty three dollars and we would you would do that for each project so this is pretty much the study we look at city and city admin police fire water sewer stormwater management and we developed the impact fees per square foot for hotels per unit the rest of the non-residential per square foot water and stormwater were a little different those as I mentioned by meter and per impervious acre and again development impact fees are not a current stream of income it depends on what your development is going to be how many burning building permits you're going to have and again it's a sensitive calculation because you want another it type revenue it's another tool in your toolbox but you do not want to discourage further development further new development so that's something the city has to decide whether you want to implement them and what level you want to implement them at but in order to do that you have to have a nexus study which you now have so you do have the maximum allowable fees and it's up to you to determine if you want to implement them and what level you feel comfortable doing it and that's pretty much my presentation thank you very much mr. Orris just a couple things that I'd like you to know first one part of the idea of this is you've got impacts on the city that are paying for the needs of it for example right now we're preparing to design a new police headquarters part of the reason for needing that is because we've outgrown that space because we've added more residents and more commercial should this city have had similar impact fees for police back say 10 20 years ago we wouldn't have had to use bond proceeds for the entire building we probably would have had a reservoir of funds that could have gone to that and it probably would have been based on the development of the last 20 years or so several million dollars just one thing to keep in mind when you're doing the other thing I want you to know is as mr. Ruiz said this is the maximum that the city can charge should you charge less than that and choose later to increase them the state doesn't allow us to increase them but once every four years and it well to overall increase them over that four-year period it also has limitations on how much you can implement at one time you cannot increase impact fees more than 50 percent during that four-year period and that must be phased in based on schedules in the statute so just understand that as we're moving forward with what these levels may be if you choose to move forward okay thank you very much have a quick can you go back to the slide before this one I want to see those fees but the maximum fees schedule yeah this one the single family resident example yeah those are the individual fees let's say let's say all of that look let's say all of that look good to you but you said you know what the city administration fee is too high we just want to make it a dollar per square foot then you would do that same calculation and you'd use a dollar and you can do that with every single one of those fees until you find out what works for you this is simply an example under your example this is the maximum you could charge it for a residential lot assuming a quarter acre lot whatever it is it'd be $17,000 as you allocated the fee among all of the this is just for excuse me just for a 2,000 square foot house this was a 3,000 square foot house the calculation would be different yes yes talked in another slide about how much per acre residential development so if you're at the bottom typical quarter acre lot mm-hmm is that included in this is part of your your analysis was that a separate if it's a quarter acre lot you would just take a quarter of that a quarter of that in the calculation right now the acre is forty three thousand five sixty so you're giving us an example of what we would see in residential but you didn't do a comparable for commercial which is where we really you know I'm interested like so when you commercial if I make commercial would be the same calculation oh it's the same calculation we take let's say it's a 30,000 additional fee for the size of the meat water meter and the light right because of the water meter size could bring it up to thirty three thousand for a larger water meter but a smaller water meter right it would just be by the interest speed by that would be so from going from residential to commercials I see is that that like the problem is listen I'm I want to be excited about this but I'm not I'm like super frustrated because I've been asking for this since 2021 and as one of our staff said like the horse got out of the barn we've had a large number of a large apartment development complexes 292 units built in our city in the meantime and we have gotten five thousand dollars in impact fees for parks and that's it it's like a 40 year old lady getting the Barbie dream how she wanted her whole childhood it's not really for me I'm frustrated so I feel like we have to come in at the high end because of the limitations on when we can change this and because we are behind and and and frankly even in the last year something's got screwed up with this and it got dragged out I'm disappointed we're even looking at a draft and not an ordinance yeah I'd like to move this along if I may we run into a lot of this we have a lot of cities and we tell you know we you've left money on the table yeah or you have cities that have done it this fee study 25 years ago yeah and it's a 25 year old fee and we can only increase it based under HR 337 right by 50 percent so this is another tool in your toolbox let's say property taxes are taken away money's gonna have to come from somewhere this is one of the things you have to be ready for and that's why a lot of these cities we're doing a lot of work in Florida where cities are looking at development impact yeah thank you and then so you gave us a draft because you are what looking for our input because this is at the highest level because I was expecting a final product so the reason it's a draft is if you look at the the agenda memo there were some last-minute changes on the water and sewer to make sure that we had what the utilities was looking for right so it was not included into the final document right that is the only change that will happen between what's before you and the final document is just the inclusion of what was attached as a memo on this which is just tables for water and so there's no other and because that right because there was the January 13th memo regarding the utilities with mr. Hashimiri and you mr. Orris so I mean our staff has given input to this and the city feels good about this and you just want our determination to go forth or not that's exactly why we're here yes ma'am okay I do think in light of all the considerations the fact that we are so far behind the fact that we may have issues with our ad valorem and and the fact that staff has given input I do think we should move forward with this now having said that I do ask this question should somebody have impact fees that are well beyond say some homeowner comes in and wants to build a house and the impact fees are prohibitive can we waive them or is this I mean in other words we have a small group of people in our community that will lack resources but maybe you know something is happening they're building a home but we have organizations that help them is that something the city so that we can move forward if I could address that we get asked this all the time and I think the mayor brought this up earlier you start running into exemptions and you start running into them over and over and over again some of the common exemptions you have are exemptions for low-income housing right and infill housing okay once you get past that the floodgates going to come in got it that's all I wanted was low-income really I'm more concerned about if we are trying to promote low-income housing through our CRA and we're looking at these fees these are going to create situations for us but if you're saying we can make those exemptions and I'm happy to move with this study as you presented it I appreciate it and if everyone agrees I would like this to be fast-tracked mr. Moore this is way far behind mr. Burns well you know I was concerned about the you know low-income housing as well but you know if there are exemptions that we can make and are they written they're not written into this into this study no ma'am they're not in the study the cities usually do this by ordinance and you say you do this all the time and we've I've done a lot of project personally where they start out by saying we want to remove low-income housing from this that's very common so and we're approving this or going forward this depending on the size of the property correct so it's going to be different for everybody because it's going to be used for instance if the house is not 2,000 square feet yes ma'am too good in this okay that's correct all right all right thank you no questions mr. Mark yeah I mean first of all my favorites I show a question how how do we handle shared city resources like our water treatment plant or not a water but our wastewater plant that we share with Boynton how how do we factor in cross municipality charges on something like this yeah we would have to look at that it may be a percentage of it okay we have no I don't want to go off on other examples of their cities because everybody's a little bit different but we run into that from time to time yeah because we share we share a facility with Boynton and we pay our part and they pay theirs so they aren't impacted by our determination which is great but would they not have to adhere to anything that we're doing so our fee would be entirely different from there's commissioner cosal is correct dairy beach services residents Boynton Beach serves there so it's not a common denominator in this case in this with regards to this analysis only as it pertains to new construction okay okay thank you you're all I have I have I have are you finished yes sir I have had many conversations over the years with staff regarding our lack of ability to participate in impact fees which we have been paying you know to other governmental agencies and so I have welcome to try to figure out a way to where we can participate in some of those impact fees and I do think that now whether we want to look at you we want to figure out whether these are the maxims what how it's going to impact our neighbors and all I mean our competitiveness with our neighbors because we don't want them going right across the border to build somewhere else because it's going to save them right right an amount which is not significant enough and and I want to be mindful of that but I do think that we need to because it only relates to new construction mm-hmm I think that there is an anticipation because I mean there in a lot of other cities it's a lot more expensive I mean Delray has been very generous in terms of not charging people some would argue maybe too generous but the my only concern is I don't want to become non-competitive right that's again as I mentioned earlier that it's it's a fine calculation that you have to do because you do not want to discourage new development but you do want the impact fee but the first step you to do this is you have to have a nexus fee on file you have to have one done so now it's done so you adopt no no I understand with that requirement that I do understand that requirement yeah that's again that's something the city has to decide what level you want well I think there's I mean by hearing I think there's consensus to try to move forward with creating some kind of thing that we can look at and make a detroit we can we can discuss I guess whether what maximums we want we should discuss that now and have the next step just exactly with an ordinance I mean it's not going to get done if we keep on pushing it off so I mean are we are we do we want to jump right in with the maximum amount but I just think that I I mean well maximum I mean you can't go higher than this so yeah that's correct no but you but if we adopt this we're not required to impose the maximum amount if we adopt the maximum amount we have to tell them what we want them to impose the city if we if we say yes go ahead with this this is the maximum amount are we then required to charge that maximum amount or can we impose a lower amount we go lower we can't go higher right you can go lower but once you go lower you're you're you're there for years you're there until the next policy but if we establish the policy at the maximum amount we can still impose it the lower number because we've already established the higher number yes yes correct yes you have to do that one time right and that's what I then that's what I wanted to know okay so I think what we're talking about then is taking the numbers you've used establish an ordinance that would incorporate those those figures and then we can deal with how much we actually want to apply to new construction down the road that we have consensus on that yeah but I I think we need to move on this as quickly as possible I think we we're asking for an ordinance to be done quickly but then I mean how are we going to figure out what we're imposing after the ordinance is done I mean you need that it's gonna be a two-step process we'll adopt the ordinance and then we'll figure out what we're going to be what number we're going to use we're just not you know the ordinance is going to give us the ceiling of what we can charge and then we can deal with because it's going to have to be some collaboration with some of the others and other people sitting here like the people who actually do these developments or the people that actually do these sorts of things one of the things you have to be careful of you may have people already have building permits on file right and they may have done that already assuming the no development impact so that's something you'll have to work with the retroactive you know think you can't do it retroactively it says that in the study they're probably that's not permitted yeah if they're already permitted I think they're beyond it's right it's only a progress you're already beyond the which is why we need to get it done as quickly as possible thank you so you'll go ahead and do that we have consensus on that everyone absolutely okay for me if I may real quick just you Commissioner Casale's concern our limiting factor on how quickly we can implement a implement these fees would be once the ordinance is adopted we need to upgrade our update our software systems to calculate and then I'll probably take us somewhere in the neighborhood about four weeks okay well this is taking us in the neighborhood of six years so four weeks is good thank you right okay thank you very much thank you thank you very much there's nothing else on this workshop agenda so we are going to adjourn this meeting and we're going to start again at five o'clock for the regular scheduled meeting we are adjourned