I would like to call the September 9th, 2026 Marine Advisory Board meeting to order. First agenda item, 2.1, the approval of the June 10th, 2026 meeting. Has everybody had a chance to peruse those? Yes. Do I have a motion? I'll make a motion. Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Passed. Right away, we can get to our citizen to be heard for things not on the agenda. If you would like to take the stand and take the stand, the podium. I'm sure it's working. Please tell us and spell your name, please. Mike Colby, C-O-L-B-Y, current president of the Clearwater Marine Association, representing the charter boats in the Clearwater Beach Marina. And I want to thank all of you for being here today. It was eerily quiet at first. My intention is asking you folks to provide some input to council and to Mike on the upcoming rent increase. Now, it isn't my intention to come here and say we don't want an increase. We're going to get one. What I would like to see happen is some advice and council given to the city council during their work session on whatever the amount of the increase will be. Now, we've heard 60% on top of the 50% that we had some months ago. If that's going to happen, what I would like to see, our charter operators, I'm speaking on their behalf, we would like to see that put in incrementally, maybe in two- to three-year deposits. So that does several things. One, that gives our market time to respond to a drastic increase in our pricing. We've already increased our pricing from the first increase. I don't know how much higher some of us can go until we price ourselves out of the market. So that's a concern. So I would like to see maybe a memorandum of request or understanding sent to council that says if we're going to have this increase, can we do it incrementally? So our operators can make plans and respond to it, and our market can respond to it. We don't know what our market will pay. We've kind of gotten used to certain pricing in charter boats. Now, we don't charge by the person as a tour boat does. We charge by the trip. Now, a tour boat can put $5 on a ticket and kind of overcome large increases. We can't because we're charging by the trip. And, you know, it would be very helpful for us to have that increase come in in increments so we can all adjust to it. Our operators can set pricing where we think our locals and our tourists will respond to that because they're going to come here to fish, but they're not going to come here to lose money, a lot of money either. And the other request would be, and I've talked with Mike about this, is possibly leveraging some of our fuel pricing when we do get fuel services back in the marina, leveraging that against the increases. That would more likely occur by reducing the surcharge that's put on the fuel that we buy. And I think that's still set around $0.45 a gallon, something like that. So if we could trim some of that, leverage it against the increases, that would certainly help because, obviously, right now, fuel is hurting everyone. It's hurting my customers. It's hurting you guys. It's hurting our operators. So it's, you know, it may be reasonable for us to request some kind of leverage against increases by looking at how can we massage that surcharge that's on the fuel. So that is my intent for you guys to hopefully inform, along with Mike, inform counsel of those two requests. If you have any questions, I'm ready. Thank you. Any questions? Yeah, I've got a question. How does, and this is kind of to you and Mike, how does the slip rent at the marina compare to other similar facilities in the area, not statewide, but just in this area? Competitive, higher, lower? Well, I've been told that there's been another survey on top of the one that was done, I think, initially about a year ago that showed that we're still under market. Now, does that mean we have to be over market or at market? I don't know. I mean, if what we want as a collective, if we want Fort Lauderdale on the West Coast, we're headed in the right direction. Believe me, we are. But so I'm unsure, and the initial survey that was done, even the vendor that did that survey and one of their paragraphs in the survey admitted that they're not sure the economy would handle huge increases. And they did that survey based on property value in this area, not on what will the market bear. And those are two separate issues. Now, unfortunately, I may have the resources, maybe not the time, to engage a vendor or a firm that can provide a true market survey. I've contacted Pinellas County Tourism, the TDC people, and they were nonresponsive to that. So I would have to look up a private firm that says, either through AI or some other mechanism, to put together a survey that what's the market willing to pay? If we come to Clearwater expecting goods and services, what can I expect to pay for those goods and services? And those kind of surveys, I mean, it's touchy, but they can be done by AI. I mean, that's a touchy area. But from what I've examined through different companies that can do this, they say they can. Of course, it may be tongue-in-cheek, you know, I don't know. But there are ways to do a true market survey to find out visitors. What do visitors who are sitting on their sofa in Chicago or Pennsylvania, what do they expect to pay when they get here? Now, they've got their airfares, they've got a hotel, et cetera, et cetera. But it would be interesting to find out that perception among our market about, and even our locals here in Clearwater or the Pinellas County area. When they come driving into the Clearwater Beach Marina, what do they expect to see? What do they expect to pay for this, that, and the other? Parking, everybody gets. I mean, a dollar an hour parking in the marina is the best deal on the beach with the code for our customer. I mean, you can't get that in New York City. But those are my thoughts on this, when you ask about where are we in relationship to other municipal marinas serving commercial activity. Well, that's okay. Can I just quickly ask, Mike, is Mike Colby's estimates 50% last year, 60% next year? Is that roughly accurate? No, not for the commercial fleet. So, about a year and a half ago, I brought forward the market rate study that Mr. Colby's referring to, the Walter Duke. And at the time, you know, we were below market average, a considerable amount. So, the first installment we brought everybody up to half with the commercial fleet, I think it's roughly $23 a foot. The market rate that Walter Duke put out was $32 a foot. That was never implemented. And when we went to council to implement the full rate for the recreational, the $23 a foot is what the recreational is, we told council at that time that we were going to wait until after the construction of the marina, and then we were going to do another market survey through another appraisal firm outside of the city and get another market rate. And then we'll discuss that further with you guys and then council and, of course, leadership to see what direction they want to go with that. So, as of right now, there is no plan or a percentage of what we're going to – they're going to stay the same rate until after a study and then after everybody talks about it. Okay. There's a lot of moving parts to marina right now. A whole bunch of the marine industry is up in the air. BlackRock bought MarineMax. A private equity firm is in the process of buying One Water. So, you look at what One Water's got in operations here. They've got Tom George out. They've got Clearwater Boat Sales. They've got Quality Boats, two locations. And they've got Central Marine and St. Pete. And boats aren't selling like crazy, and a lot of people are getting out of – getting rid of their boat, trying to get rid of it. Point being, when you've got private ownership controlling so much of the private marina market, that leaves – you've got Clearwater, you've got Dunedin, you've got a little bit up in Tarpon Springs. Your, quote, public availability is significantly reduced, and how that lays out in the next year will be real interesting and may have direct impact on fees like we're talking about now. Yeah. Both sides of this coin are not fun because you've got to be competitive. And what's the capital expense on that marina, Mike, roughly? What do you mean? The rehab of the marina. The beach marina? Yeah. $46 million. $46 million. Yeah. Okay. And how many slips are over there total? You know, when you're maintaining a marina, it's expensive. Oh, I know. It's expensive to own, operate. I know. Just take a wheelbarrow full of $100 bills and dump it off the pier every day. Absolutely. Yeah. Then how many slips are there? A hundred and sixty-five. Okay. And what's that divided by the $47 million? Yeah. You can see the improvements that everybody over there is getting, both commercial and a wreck. And somewhere, we certainly understand what you're talking about and certainly understand the quality of what, you know, having a draw like that has value, too. So somewhere in the middle. Yeah. Thank you. And, again, I'm on a lot of advisory panels for the Federal Gulf Council. I'm on the Business Advisory Council for the Gulf of America Alliance. And I've learned over many, many years that you don't pound the table. You come to the table. And I know that council and advisory boards get many people that just like to pound the table. I would rather work with Mike and Bill, which have done their absolute best to make a seamless transition from the old marina to the new one. I mean, you guys have put their best foot forward, and it's worked. I don't have any complaints about, and I don't know why I would, about how the marina has progressed through this reconstruction. It's been about as seamless as you can get. And, sure, there's been some hiccups, but you can expect those, you know, from any large-scale project like this. But, again, if we could advise council to explore putting a two- or three-year increment into future increases, whatever they may be, and possibly leverage fuel costs against that, that would be a win-win for us and possibly for the city because, again, we want to attract people to come here that will have a pricing that is sustainable where I don't have to keep raising my prices, you know, every three or four months to keep up with everything else that's rising. I'd just like to make a comment. I never quite understand the philosophy of market rates, meaning in this case that, you know, whatever this guy charges, we need to be here, and if this guy's there, then we need to go like that. Everybody just chases each other endlessly, it feels like to me. I don't know what the goal ought to be for the marina. Now, obviously, cover operating expenses, maybe make a reasonable profit or a reasonable return for the city, but at the end of the day, it seems to me that keeping healthy businesses for tour operations, for charter operations, also ought to be part of the equation. You know, we can't just chase each other endlessly. You never get there. You know, the city, all we want to be is sustainable. We want to be able to afford the repairs and then the eventual replacement without tapping into loans against the general fund or, you know, using any general fund money at all. It's supposed to be self-sustainable, and that's what we project everything to be, especially when we do these market rates. You know, this is where we need to be to be sustainable without, you know, having a major. So not necessarily we need to be at this level because this guy's at that level, but rather this is what we need to be able to afford to operate the marina. Correct. That's reasonable. Correct. You know, nobody's getting bonuses. Nobody's, you know, getting rich off this. I mean, the pay is the same. But, Mike, the survey that you did are establishing, okay, it costs the city X dollars to operate the marina, okay, but if, say, it was $10. So if the market is $30, okay, that's greedy. We don't need to go that far. But it costs $10 to do it. Markets at $30 will come in somewhere in between to sustain. Absolutely. I mean, those discussions will be had. That's what I thought the goal was. Yeah, but we've been so low for so long. Right. You're behind the eight ball. Yeah. When is this new raise supposed to kick in? Which one? For the recreational? Yes. The recreational, the new rates start October 1. When do we start letting the recreational back in, or have you already? Probably sometime in mid-October. Okay. So, but these are recreational rates, Harbor Marina, Island Estates, and then eventual Beach Marina when they come back. I don't think anybody's got an issue with the rec rates, correct? Yeah. They're set. They're done. No. They're done. Council's approved them. Yeah. Any chance I can have a little bit of podium on this, because I... Please, can you, please come up. Introduce yourself. Yes. Tony, N-E-Y. I think you're going to miss. Yes, I believe that, of course, you have a survey. Pass out a few. Who did this survey? Oh, okay. I'm a silly engineer. Lockheed Martin. 20 years, I ran a division. I ran a company of my own for 27 years. I've got some skills. If you take a look at what I have here, what's interesting about this survey is they included all of the private marinas. Excuse me. I've got to get the word. A number of only one municipal marina was included, and that was Dunedin. If you look at the bottom of that chart, you see in yellow St. Petersburg. I don't understand how the city of St. Petersburg's municipal. That's your only real competitor when it comes to recreational. It was left out of this because the goal was to raise the prices. It had nothing to do with anything else. Look at the prices of the St. Petersburg marina slips. The new prices are $3 an hour, but coming on October 1st. Look at the numbers on the St. Petersburg side. These are current information to basically in the last week. This is your competitor. There's nobody else that comes anywhere close to what's between Clearwater and any of these other private marinas. Way different prices, right? And these are current numbers. St. Petersburg, it's full. It's a destination. Clearwater is not a destination. You turn it into one. From a cruising standpoint, you're not a destination. So it screws up some of the revenue you get from transient. One interesting thing on this chart is look at all the features, right? These are critical. There's no fuel available. Super important. You charge for parking. I don't know of another in this state that charges for parking. St. Petersburg not only gives you free parking along with every other marina, but they give free parking to the public so that the public will go to the rent. The public has free parking. Clearwater's gone nuts with parking. If you want to draw people back into the community, have some. I couldn't find a parking space to park here to come to this library today. Look at all the services around that blackboard. Clearwater has none of them. Read the top. Docking support. I have a 50 patroller, 84,000 people at the Harbor Marina have no clue how to help you bring that boat in. They don't respond to radio calls. All they do is basically clean up bird dropping. They're out there spraying every morning. I don't think they have any other skills. The Harbor Marina is a parking lot for boats. I'm sorry to say it, but that's what it is. Two nights ago, a fellow came in with trying to back it into his space. He was there maybe five. The guy spent an hour trying to get his. He's yelling at everybody to give him help and so forth. Anyways. The point is, every four big boats come. The Harbor Marina has no clue what that's all about. You don't really have a marina going, and you're about to charge $23. You should be matching the St. Petersburg rates. Another thing of interest is, you have no services. Absolutely nothing. The Beach Marina does have some services. But the Harbor Marina, we're next to a go. The only store nearby is a Starbucks. That's it. I pull in. I need fuel. I need food. I replenish what's on my ship. There's no way to do that. There's nothing within walking. You have to get something and drag on. There are no, yet you're charging rate and above. If you look down that column of arena prices per foot on the left side, what's interesting is, every one of those is a negotiated price. None of those are in writing. Not a single one of them are on a sheet of paper that you could. I mean, I called these guys up. I also went to everyone. The numbers I got there, they'd only give me one number. For a single boat, size boat to X size, they would not. Every one of these places that I visited won't get off my phone calling me now. I don't want to negotiate. I told them, well, your prices are high as I drove. So I start getting phone calls. Every one of the prices only the new... None of them have waiting lists? I don't know if they have a waiting list. They never told me that. For my slip size, they all have a slip. Every single one of them. And usually, it's the bigger sizes that are a problem. If you look down that list, there's only eight marinas in it. One of them burnt down when it was so small. The Oasis Marina Rebuild Hotel. One of them, Loggerhead. You know, you can't have a boat over 18 feet air draft. That's not a competitive situation with it. Yet it's on this review. Port 32. They don't take anything bigger than 42. Again, Clearwater claiming we could take a 180-foot-length boat, right? They're non-competitive. How on God's earth... Look at all the St. Petersburg marinas that are in this list. How did they run a survey without including St. Petersburg, right? That's not an accident. That's 641 slips. That's the main competitor in the area. They outgun everybody. I mean everybody. You get off your boat, you can get any you need. There's a boat store. There's top-grade fuel. There's 50 right nearby. There's any kind of supply you need within walking distance. It's a boat destination for somebody. If I had my brakes and I wasn't parking my boat at a home base, but I live here. For seven years, I've been in this area. This is my municipal marina. And you're pricing us out of it with these ridiculous prices. Your prices shouldn't be any more than what you see for safety. This is the main competitor, right? And you've blown right past them. Their place is full and booming. Yours is empty. I'm sure we're talking apples and apples. Absolutely. So St. Petersburg, they don't assist in – in other words, they might charge a rate, right, that is $17. But are they – is the city paying some of the costs to maintain that marina? No, they're making a profit. And in 28, they're going to rebuild the place and all have floating docks. They're doing well. The last I saw, am I incorrect, in 2024, was the harbor marina not making money? Because I didn't see any other published information. Yeah, we've been – In the red. Yes, you appear to be below market rates. You boosted it up approximately 50% already. Now you're going to take it to 113% in under a year. That's ridiculous. I agree with the gentleman representing the charter fleet. You're going to put this – things are going worse for the voting community. If people are not noticing, like explaining, things are going downhill. The price of everything – hotels, everything, fuel, everything surrounding the voting community has gone way up. Now all of a sudden we're going to jump in and hit the charter fleet and the local citizens with a 113% increase? That's what I was referencing before with the timing on this is horrific because you've got all the circumstances of major ownership of marinas, of waterfront. There is no more waterfront property. We want to build a new marina. Great. What are you going to tear down and get permeated for? Exactly. Good luck. There's nothing left. This isn't something I think that we should – if you study this a little while, you see – If I could add one thing, though, I think, and having voted for a while at a rattlesnake point over in Tampa, that it's a long ways from there. It's – Clearwater's selling point is you hang a left, you hang a right, and you're out in the Gulf of Mexico. There's virtually no transient dockers here. At your facility at Harbor, I sit right – Well, I'm not necessarily talking transient. I'm talking the person that goes out fishing two or three times a week, the person that's burning that fuel to get from St. Petersburg to get out of that dock, to get to the channel and to get out, whether past the grill or by the bridge, that you've dropped $100 worth of fuel, just getting to somewhere where you can drop a line. I think that's easily a big selling point for our marina is saying, look at this access, whether it's the beach marina or the municipal one. Cruisers are kind of a different animal. I don't mean that disrespectfully. Go ahead. Compared to what's at the city marina right now, you've got, as you addressed, a parking lot for wrecks and a storefront for commercial operations, which you don't really have at the St. Pete marina. Yeah, you've got a parking spot for wrecks, but it's the folks that live within that area. You've got the same thing in the city of Dunedin. You've actually got to be a resident to keep a boat there. There's some little ones down here, Tierra Verdes and so forth, that have little small marinas. But I think what we have here is a point's taken, and to that, I've got nothing. But it's a different type of marina. Again, you can come out of deep water, come in a pass, and you're at the marina. You want to do that in St. Pete, you've got to come in under the Skyway, maybe under the Meisner Bridge, depending on what you draft, run all the way up the bay. It's a lot of extra engine time, if that's what you're looking for. Because, yep, you're right, you've got a Publix, you've got all those restaurants. We're not there, okay? Right. We aren't. So if that's what you're looking for, we can't help you. If you're looking for quick access to the Gulf, that's what we've got. They can't help you. Same thing over at Port 32, way on the other side of Tampa Bay. Right. And the loggerhead, I think they picked up marker one. Like you said, the squeeze is starting, and it's coming hard. I mean, even West Marine, it was gobbled up by private equity. And they're, I don't know what. Half of their facilities have been closed. They're going to lose half of them. Yeah. Who's that, I'm sorry? West Marine. West Marine. They closed. Bankruptcy. Yeah. And 50% of them are closing. I mean, that's telling you something about the boating industry that we're hyperinflating. That's not so much the boating industry. That is private equity doing what private equity does. Of course. Which is they come in, they take everything they can out of it, and then crumbs, sell them off. Right. And that's what's happening. Mike, is there a direction we can take on this? I mean, we're clear on what the objections are. I mean. Yeah, this is public comments. This wasn't an agenda item, so I don't have any other information in front of me that I can get on. But, I mean, Mike, you know what the expenses are. You know what the actual cost is to staff the dock, fix the dock, all that stuff. Absolutely. And with these new rates, we're sustainable. Without the new rates, we're not. And, you know, it isn't cool, but I hate to say it, but it is what it is, you know. It is what it is. Thank you. So we hear you, and, you know, we'll discuss it. And just know, we're, let me say a bunch of boaters, we're sympathetic to where you're at. Right. We've all, at one time or another, paid these fees. That, um. You lost a percentage of individual boaters? Yes. When the first rate went through. Well, I was there. I'll bet you you're going to lose another similar group, because they're not going to be able to afford it. Right. We'll face that. Which isn't going to help the revenue stream. No. And we're stuck between both of those, as you are. Right. And a lot of people that are at the edge, it's like, well, man, if that goes up, I'm going to have to sell a boat. I just don't use it anymore. Right. I'm aging out. My health is failing. This is getting more expensive. I can't. I don't. I won't. That all this factors together, and here we are trying to decide, what's it cost to operate a marina? Right. And you have to cover that, and I understand. But I'd look at those numbers very hard. Thanks, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Good input. And think about presenting that to the city. Okay. Are there other citizens here waiting to be heard? We will move along. The Beach Marina Commercial Tenant Outreach Group Update. Trish had an emergency, so she's not going to make it. Trish will not make it. Correct. Okay. Is she permitted to present something to us in writing or anything? Not at this time. I don't have anything from her. Okay. So. Really wanted to update on how they're doing. There's a difference, I think, believe, Mike, between your fishing guys and the Trish group. Two different businesses. Yes. Beach Marina Reconstruction Project Update. Kelly. Good morning, members of the board. My name is Kelly Petrich. I'm the Engineering Division Manager here at the City of Clearwater in the Public Works Department. As far as the Beach Marina, we're finally at the final stages of the project. We're scheduled to complete now at the end of the month. Right now we have a lot of upland work, some punchless work. The main items are installing the fuel line and also electrical conduit on dock A. We're really happy to get all the associated docks in place now so we can really hit that work in the ground running on that. We're also extending two of the catwalks. These are for the Queen Fleet and the Double Eagle vessels. But, yeah, besides that, we're really on schedule and we're going to be complete here by the end of the month. So, any questions? My continual question, is there going to be a party? We'll get to Mike on that. Yeah, with all the extra money for the rate increases. So, on September 24th, there's going to be an unveiling for the artwork at 9 a.m. You guys are all welcome to come and join in that. And then we're going to have a ribbon-cutting ceremony sometime in late October, early November. Excellent. Yes. Just from Phase 1 to Phase 2, we felt a little left out that there was even any little ceremony that we weren't involved in. Anything else coming? Oh, no. Move on to the beach reconstruction? There was not a ceremony for Phase 1 to Phase 2. We were just trying to get through construction. You could go over at any time with a drink and a little umbrella in it. I've done that, actually. Yeah, right. All right. The Harbor Marine update. Yes. As you know, this was broken out into two separate projects. So, beginning with the south end portion, Kelly Brothers is currently in the process of working on getting all the submittals completed. For the electrical substation and then also the actual precast docks. We're looking to begin the actual construction on site in the springtime. So, that one is on schedule to work on that one. As far as the north side, we can't officially announce who won the bidder, the low bid on that. And we'll update that on the next meeting. But we're hoping to actually kind of combine those two and both get them, you know, worked on at the same kind of time. Do you have a guesstimate of a time window? Well, we're hoping to get all this done before the next storm season. Fingers crossed. I mean, obviously, you know, at this point, you know, we're still in the construction phase. But, yeah, that's our end goal. This includes the wave attenuators? Yeah. Okay. I was accosted with questions about the broken dock out there and trying to explain to them, one, come to our meetings and you would know. Two, until the wave attenuators are in there, why fix a broken dock that it will not be protected inside? And cleared up the question, but we're thrilled to have some people here today that we wish more people would come here and find out what's going on before they go on next door or one of those and scream bloody murder that there's an ugly dock sticking out of the water when we've been working for going on two years. So I can tell you the difference between, you know, the two projects. The second project, which is the north side, where the gangway is in the water, that has not gone through environmental permitting yet. So we're still working through that. We haven't had that checked off. The other side is completed. We have the permitting. So that's one reason why that bridge is still in the water from that cell boat. The second reason is the cost that it would, to fabricate that, mobilize a barge and crane, to come in there and install that. You're essentially, that price is, you know, half a million dollars to mobilize it and do those projects separately. So cost was a huge factor in that. Okay. Anything else? No. Any questions about the harbor marines? You're doing the seminal boat ramp update also? Yes. So we're hoping to get that out to bid here in the next four to six weeks. And we would like to, you know, get a bidder on board, and we're hoping to begin construction again in the spring timeframe of next year. Okay. But, yeah, we haven't officially gone out to bid yet for that project. I haven't been down there. Are there still just limited access to it? We're short one dock, right? No. It's totally open. No, it's totally open. This is the bottom ramp portions. Yeah. They're in very bad shape. So we're doing that. Instead of adding the amenities, we're going to go ahead and repair all the bottoms of those ramps, everything from water side down. Okay. Do you know yet if the scope of work is going to include case on that whole thing off at once or try and do it in two stages? That's really going to be up when we get the bids in to really evaluate the bids and the cost and timeframe associated. Based on your knowledge as an engineer, cost effectiveness of trying to do that in two versus one? I mean, I would say it would be a lot more cost effective from the mobilization standpoint if we do it all at the same time. That's what I'm thinking. The case on it all, pump it out and go to work, right? Yeah, because then you could have the same subcontractor just mobilize once, get all their work done as far as, you know, the subgrade and everything instead of having to come back and remobilize it. It will be cheaper. We just have to evaluate the actual timeframe and, you know, the impact of the public, too. Just don't start it at Memorial Day. Start it at the weekend. Yeah. The weather, obviously, would be the ideal time to do that, December, January, February, when the boating weather is not. That's an obvious thing. Yeah, ideally we'd like to get out there in February, but, you know, with the bidding process still hasn't gone all the way yet. So really a time crunch at this point. Yeah, very up and wait. Thank you. Any more questions? Anything else, Morris? No, I don't. Move on to Stevenson Creek. Is that going to be Mike? Yes, sir. Thank you. You're dismissed. Thank you. Mike McDonald, Marine and Aviation Director. The city continues to move forward with establishing the Stevenson Creek Manatee Protection Zone. The city council has approved both readings of the ordinance, which established the protection zone within Stevenson Creek. The proposed zone was developed in coordination with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, as well as the Stevenson Creek Advocacy Group. The city staff and other stakeholders is intended to provide additional protection for manatees regularly utilizing the creek while maintaining reasonable navigation access. The next step will be to have the commission, the FWC commission, actually approve it. Once they get that approval, then we have to go into the permitting process and get it permitted and then put the markers up. So after we do that, then we'll get rid of the two speed zone signs that are now underneath the Edgewater Bridge and the Pinellas Trail Bridge. The resumed normal operation ones? Well, right now, you know, there's 300 feet on each side of those bridges. That is a slow speed zone. The state FWC does not want, you know, intertwined zones, so we'll have to get rid of that at some point through an ordinance change. Any questions on Stevenson Creek? I had a concern that recent news story, and, you know, I spoke at the first meeting when they did the first reading just a few weeks ago, and it was a weird experience because you're standing there speaking to somebody that usually up here a bunch of serious scowling people, and when we were talking about the manatee zone, in the middle of my little talk, I basically said, this is all moot because they're all sitting up here smiling and just can't wait to vote for the manatees, and you realize I don't need to persuade these people of anything, that they were, you know, they were clearly on our side. I have a concern, a recent news story in the Times, and we went through this. When we put through our letter in support of the manatee zone that went to city council and got you started on your road, that they insinuate in this article that somehow this manatee zone is tied to the private docks that are trying to be put in right by the bridge, and I felt that was misleading, and we even specifically, they brought us our first letter, and we told them, you have to take all this out. We don't have anything to do with things that are going on in private property, and that's not our purview, and we can't suggest anything, break it down to just the manatee thing, and they did, and we put the letter together, and we sent it on and started all this. So my concern is that if these commercial people, these people that paid the $25,000 to skip any environmental studies or anything, have the motivation to think we have to stop this manatee thing because it's going to shut down, which it shouldn't. You can have a boat dock in a manatee zone, even if it's multiple docks, but I worry the powers that be may look at it and say this manatee zone, when we're this close, is going to be trouble. It's going to stop the production of these docks that we've already permitted, and I'm afraid that that might creep up on even Stevenson Creek Group is kind of using that to say, now we have a leg up on stopping these docks, and it's like, don't tie the two, especially not until we have those signs up, and this is a done deal because they're two separate things. That doesn't affect us. It'll affect us if somebody higher up, if somebody representing a contractor somewhere goes to somebody and say, this can't happen, this is going to ruin our whole condo project of multimillion dollars. Well, that's purely coincidental because all we've addressed to the masterminds, coincidental when it's put into a news story and insinuated. Well, the newspapers have never gotten anything wrong before, so this would be our first. Ask me, yes, ask me how the newspaper gets things right. Yeah, I wouldn't speculate. No, all this stuff is on tape. Yes, it is clearly speculation, but it just seems to me like we've got all the work that you've put in. Congratulations. You deserve all the kudos that you've been getting for continually to follow up on this. I mean, every time you've had a new update of I've done this and done that, they've come back to me, I've gone back to them. All the work that you put in there to be shot in the tow because somebody says, now we can stop those docks, which the two are totally unrelated. Exactly. But they do insinuate that in the thing, and whether it was out of the mouth of one of the Stevenson Creek people or not, I don't know. I just think that's a dangerous road, and everybody should be warned. Let's get this done. Let's get these signs up. On another note, somebody sent me something, and maybe I can forward it to you, about some grants, and you're the master of grants. I already know because we talked about your airport project and the money that you raised to get that, to keep so much of the expense out of the city, of a manatee sign rejuvenation. And the Sierra Club had approached me and said, can you talk about that? And I think I mentioned it to you or to Jennifer that our other manatee signs, our other manatee zones are below standard, are possibly deteriorated, or possibly if we're going to put signs up, maybe we can do this all at once, that there is some kind of grant ending very soon that may be, I mean, within weeks. And I've misplaced the e-mail, unfortunately. I can find it. I'm sure my e-mail volume in the last few months greatly increased, but I am still getting caught up. That if there's something out there that could read, that sure, we're going to put up new signs in the creek, but then what about the rest of them? Are they still readable? Are they still done? And I think that Sierra Club went out with some people from Stevenson Creek and went out with another group. Maybe it was with the kayakers to get around. That may be available. Do you know anything about that? I do not. So the manatee signs that are currently around Clearwater now, it's a state permit that the FWC put in. So FWC would maintain those signs. Okay. So they haven't approached me about helping them replace any signs, so I don't know about this program. I'll find that, and I'll forward it to you and see if it's anything of interest. Just because we went into this hoping that it would cost us the minimal amount, and it looks like it really is, that we should all be happy that we helped them get this started and that everybody involved followed through on it. And just when I read that news story, I'm like, we cut that whole part out because it has nothing to do with us. Now, don't try to put it back in like we in the city made it a manatee zone to stop this dock project. We'd hate to see our hard work go down the drain because somebody wanted docks more than manatees, and that's about it. And so those signs aren't ours, and that's moot, but I'll get that to you. Okay, because I'm going to have to purchase some signs for the new manatee zone when it's approved and we get it permitted. I will get it to you today because I think it's really like something this month that expires. Okay. Anybody have anything to add? Not to that. Speaking of kayaks, anything on the kayak launch over there by the shuffleboard court? I have not heard anything, but I can reach out to them. Whenever. Well, Cooper Bayou is fenced off, and so things have begun there. And as I said earlier, I had nothing to do with the first kayak launch being put three blocks from my house over on the east side as opposed to the Stevenson Creek. But it was. It was one little idea. I know it wasn't even really this board that started the kayak thing. We asked you for information on it, and by the time we had another meeting, there was already things in progress. So more of those. Anybody else have anything else for Mike? Anything else for us? No. Well, I wanted to just speak briefly, I promise, on the potential parking change at Seminole because with jet skis, the causeway is done. No more, never. The city of Dunedin is going to make the launch resident only, and they are looking strongly at prohibiting personal watercraft from launching at this one slip ramp in Dunedin. So, like it or not, we end up with them at Seminole. It has increased the volume significantly. But the good thing about it is they're smaller, they're shorter. And I actually took some measurements and did some messing around measurement. I actually had a guy volunteer. He pulled up with a pickup and a jet ski trailer behind him. And what I was questioning and proposing, and it's not way out of my wheelhouse, the parkings that is on the north against the north curb facing the playhouse. If those straight spaces are angled and made available to short stuff only, specifically personal watercraft trailers and tow vehicles. Isn't there a dedication of those spaces to the playhouse? No. I'd like to go back and look, and I don't have that information in front of me. Not on the south side, my understanding. The parking lot immediately behind the playhouse, yes. The parking over by the, where the big long spaces are on top of the hill next to the Brumby property, that's on the north side of that. If those spaces, instead of straight, were angled, and I took a picture of a truck with a jet ski behind it, and it's out of the way. And instead of doing this with a single car, you'd turn it this way, and you'd lose a couple spaces. But it would add the number of parking spaces available. It's really a shame to see those big 50-foot spaces that are 15 feet wide with a little jet ski trailer, where, and you've got a guy with a big triple axle from his 42-foot Freeman that he's trying to try. Do you have to designate those areas? Yes, you would. Yes, you would. But, again, you know, we've got signs around, and people want to be stupid, and, you know, that's what tow trucks and tickets are for. I mean, it happens everywhere, all day, all around the city, everywhere. Somewhere, again, like the gentleman was saying, somewhere between $10 a foot and $50 a foot is reasonable. And that's all. Just a thought for what it's worth. I'm done. Thank you. I don't think this is going to pop up. Is it popped up there? Yeah. Yeah. It is. So what I think is you're talking about all of these spaces, angling them? Yes, the ones directly facing the playhouse. Right here? Mm-hmm. To allow for small trailers, so like jet ski trailers. Right. And simply by angling those spaces, taking out the car stops, let them pull up against the curb, it'll fit, because we did it. Right there or up on the hill? Oh, up on the top of the hill. Up there. Up there, yeah. Oh, okay. Time to see in the... That's a lot of spots. Okay, these spots here are the ones we're talking about. So you've got a car straight in here. If this first three spaces, if these were angled, these are 50 feet long and 15 feet wide. And with three spaces, you've got sufficient length to put a short trailer. And all that would take is re-striping and some signage. And if somebody wants to go park a triple-axle trailer there, ticketing or towing. I mean, you know, you can't... You can't... Plus, it physically wouldn't fit. They don't need to be... I was going to say he's not going to get in there. And they don't need to be as wide either. They don't need a 15-foot space for a vehicle with a little narrow trailer. Even the double jet ski trailers are still that short wheelbase. And again, just a thought, because that would significantly increase. Now, this lot over here is the ones dedicated to the playhouse. You've got all these parking spaces here for single vehicles. You've got a few here. And these could perhaps even be tightened up if the time ever comes that that's resurfaced or re-striped. If you took a foot off each one, you know, you've got a couple more spaces. If you could put 10 more spaces in this lot down here and make those spaces up there for jet skis, I mean, there is no more waterfront. There is no... Even people walking blocks on a Sunday matinee. If all those spaces... That parking lot does... During a Sunday matinee... How about the Garden Club? Don't they have an arrangement with the Garden Club to be able to use that lot? They have an arrangement with the Garden Club for people that are actually in the shows that they give passes to. Okay. That they can park in there. But, you know, again, we've got to balance. They try to... We've been given an extra situation. Every theater has the crisis of the actors always show up an hour early as required, and they take all the best parking spots and leave their patrons to walk through the rain unless they have the handicap stick. Umbrellas and raincoats. Also, perhaps get in touch with the property owner and see if you work out some kind of a lease agreement there to use some of that other property or use it only on weekends. We've got to start thinking outside the box, because our box is getting smaller. There's a lot across the street that you do use already. Who owns the property? This is parking questions. I don't have anything to do with parking. Well, and who owns... Good point. I mean, I'll pass this information on. The old Brumby property. Who owns that property? This one here? Yeah. That's where the Brumby house was, which was since demoed, but there's nothing there. And then this tract up here on the corner, where we're at, it's just out of sight here. I think David Dugan owns that, and they enforce a towway on that. I mean, you know... You've seen this. They had tow trucks prowling when they had that North Ward event around that neighborhood. Well, we convinced him to cut us some slack until... So he was kind enough to do that. The city of Clearwater doesn't tow. No, no, no. This was a private owner. He knew there was an event at North Ward, so he had two tow trucks standing by in case anybody parked on his property for an hour. But the problem is that's an expensive piece of property you're pointing at as saying, oh, look at this empty lot. No one's going to give it to them, and the rule of parking, unfortunately, is either it pays for itself or it doesn't happen. Well, that's what I'm saying. Could it be leased or leased for weekends? It's just sitting there collecting dust. If the city said, okay, we'll know it, we'll lease it from you on the weekends for X amount, yes, no, and move on. You know, again, just a thought. Like I said, we've got to start thinking outside the box because our box is getting smaller, and people still want to come to this area. They still want to use the marina. They still want to use the ramp. All the facility, you know, or anyway, that's all I got. Thanks. I lack sympathy for jet skiers. I hate to say it. I do, too. I do, too, and I'll be the first one to say that. They began early. I've been doing this for over 40 years. I got you. And so you had to stand up or something on them back then. Yep. I got you beat. I've been doing it. Anyway. The sit-down thing, I just remember my ancient service manager throwing a brick at one that was doing donuts in our back. Marina. Almost got them. I've almost crushed them. Our saying was, here's your new jet ski. The water is that way, which is about the training that goes into somebody driving one. Don't forget the two-drink minimum to operate it. They're dangerous. They're unsafe. They're like micromobility devices that we're dealing with now on land, that they are a nuisance. I understand your sympathy of saying let's not let them take spots from real boaters. Don't misunderstand, Kevin. It's not a sympathetic thing. It's like, okay, how do we deal with it? Just like the electric stuff on the trail on the sidewalk, it's here. We've got to deal with it. We can't just say, no, no, no, go away. That would be nice if we could. But it's here. How do we best deal with it so the gears will hopefully mesh a little better than crashing like they are now? That's all. And, you know, just stuff to consider, this, this. It may all work. May none of it work. We look at it. New marina opening in Safety Harbor any day now. Mark, has anyone looked at a launch facility for the watercraft, personal watercraft, that, aside from the Seminole boat ramp, anybody in this, is that something you guys are looking at? No? I mean, it is an issue, but. There's no land available. That's the problem. You know, unless you could redo something over on the south side of the ramp, that'd be big money. You know, put in a little small ramp or something. We talked about a kayak launch at the tip of the little park there at Seminole Street. Stuff like that. That one was ruled out. What's the? Kayaks in a marina. That was, they looked at three places. They looked there, they looked at Stevenson Creek, and they looked at Cooper Bayou, and they said, well, this one, no. Because putting kayaks, and I think we had this discussion, you know, at the last meeting, where they rent the jet skis out, out on the Dunedin Causeway, and you, or they, I'm sorry, they rent the kayaks, yeah, and little sailboards or whatever, and then immediately send them out to cross that channel. That's right. To get out of there. Across a lot of an angle, so it takes a long time to cross it. And they line up, you know, one after the other, not realizing that that's a channel, depending on the tide, that you cannot leave. I've lost a propeller in that channel. Oh, that's a wheel ditch. Yes, yes, limping to marker one on two propellers, which I was fortunate to have that, that I could, and even there, I had to cross the main channel by the bridge to get to marker one. That's Dunedin's problem. And here comes a guy screaming down, and I can't go in. That's a Dunedin problem and a county problem. Yes. We're focused on a little old Clearwater. Well, yes, and on Clearwater, you'll never see a kayak launch on the inside there, where boats are coming and going. Okay. But, you know, again, we put this stuff out, we evaluate it. Yes, no, maybe. But on the jet skis, we can just hope that they get tired of not having somewhere to park the trailer, or they get tired of their places to launch. Some of them might. Some of them might stay over in Tampa, use the Courtney Scramble. Anything else on the director's report? No, but, I mean, that's a point that we're going to look into before it does become an issue, because he's absolutely right. They're not going to let them launch the jet skis off the causeway anymore. Dunedin's going to go to residents only. So it is something that we need to look into and expect. Sort of get ahead of it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, fair warning, I have no clear solution for it. I have no sympathy like you, but I think we have to do it. They're going to park somewhere. They could take the jet skis and all the electric scooters and bikes and put them all in a roll-off dumpster, as far as I'm concerned. We can ask the commercial and recreational boaters to come back to the podium and tell us there are many jet skiers. But apparently that's not necessary. Put that deck-mounted M60 to work. Do any other – we've got that out. That was board members who've heard. Do we have anything else to come up? Anything else is good. I think that – We're done. It's been an interesting term in between these two meetings. And I hope everybody else learned as much as I did. But I'm glad that I am going to stay here and keep going. We didn't ever find out that – I got news there was a new member coming on board. You don't have anything? Is there a vacancy still on the board? There's still – I don't have to look. Okay. You've got other stuff to do. Don't worry about it. Yeah. We have one person out. We have one other – yeah. I think we have one open seat still. Because I think a couple people have applied for it. I will keep that. I want to look at that more. Yeah, that's interesting. Thank you. Did you get one of these comparison spreadsheets, Mike? I did. Okay. If no one has anything else to add, anybody in motion, we adjourn. Motion to adjourn. Second. Good. And seconded. This meeting of the Marine Advisory Board of Clearwater is adjourned. And good night. Good night.