the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god and indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay this is planning and zoning board slash lpa which is advisory board of the county commissioners will have the final recommendations and uh on on all items today um items on today's agenda will be heard by the commission on july 17th at 5 p.m at the same place when a motion ends any kind of split vote a roll call vote will be taken to ensure accuracy as a reminder each member needs to make who makes a motion or second needs to turn on their microphone so the voice will be on the recording speakers for the public comment on agenda items will be given three minutes at this time is there any board members that have had communications with anybody regarding anything today seeing none turn it over thank you item h1 lindy inc represented by kim razenka request a conditional use permit cup for iu1 under application 25z 000 located in district 1 yes ma'am such a short presentation i got sidetracked uh my name is kim razenka i'm here on behalf of lindy inc um with me is michael ashton he is from texas he's the uh government affairs director correct yes um and he is here to tell you a little bit about lindy i know you many of you have heard me about four times now um regarding lindy's expansion lindy has been a natural grass gas production facility since 1966 in mems it's on hammock road next to the river wiley road way up north mems eight miles from the county line i was here back in january just for the zoning the heavy industrial zoning and the future land use to make the land consistent this board voted unanimously to approve the heavy industrial use and land use and i told you we would come back with a condition use permit when we're able to get a site plan and that's what we're here for today with me also is bruce moya the engineer of record he's the one who drafted the the site plan so if you have any specific questions this is basically just expanding the plant they're taking another plant they're buying and moving it here so they can increase production this is needed because of all of the launches at the space center spacex particularly you all have seen the letters of support for this because they need this to go forward they need to be able to get the gas they need to to launch these rockets so this is a conditional use permit the county code requires a conditional use for heavy industrial unlike most conditional uses there's no criteria it just says you must have one that's so you can look at the site plan you can ask questions if there's conditions you think need to be placed on the conditional use that's where this comes instead of a binding development plan it goes on a conditional use uh approval so as i said this um future land use and rezoning was approved by you all january 13th unanimously went to county commission was approved national county commission on february 6th the purpose as i said is to expand this and i know you've heard this before but michael's going to talk about lindy and tell you what it does and then we can go through the conditional use uh standards and requirements so i'd ask michael to come up okay and thank you he's got a powerpoint if you want a printed version i have those as well just make sure it works right out should work okay so thank you uh members of the board my name is mike ashton as introduced uh to government relations from lindy i really appreciate you taking the time just really briefly to want to go over a little bit an overview of lindy what this project is going to be doing lindy is a global industrial gas company uh you see up in this slide some of the end users that we have um what we produce in this facility particularly is going to be oxygen nitrogen and argon and this is a very foundational uh product for the aerospace industry electronics food and beverage medical services as well so um let me just kind of go to the next one this is what we call atmospheric gases so this is the air that we breathe you know it's 80 to nitrogen 20 oxygen and then about 1 argon and other rare gases so what we're doing it's been capturing the air that we breathe cleaning and turning around for sale so let me give you this is a schematic of of the facility that we will be building that was already exists today in mims that we'll be expanding to um and this uh condition on this conditional use permit so i'll kind of walk you through a little bit of the process uh what we do again is we take the atmospheric gases that we breathe today um what we're trying to do is is focus on oxygen nitrogen and argon we uh strip out any impurities anything else that's in the air vent that but then we take and and cool and our cool cold boxes using uh gravity pressures and really cold temperatures to separate the oxygen nitrogen and argon and so we put it into a liquid phase and then we stored at these different um storage facilities and then we have a loading bay we put them on trucks out for distribution so that's essentially what the what the process is there is no chemical additives into the process so it means a very clean facility if we have any um upset as far as a power outage or something like that we can just vent it back up in the air because it's the air that we breathe essentially is what we are processing so it's a very from manufacturing standpoint it's a very clean process i wanted to give you kind of a side view of it there is a there is the cold box does have a height of about 135 feet but it kind of gives you a side view of what of what we are looking at from the facility this is a picture of our existing facility that's at mims today again it was produced started in the 1960s with nasa and we've been able to expand that to continue to grow but we're really excited about this opportunity to to double the size just kind of get a little schematic of where we're going to be this to the picture on on my right is the existing plant up to the north you see those two rectangular locations that's where the existing plant would be going in this is property that lindy owns and so this is the this is the area that we're looking for expansion to my left is kind of a little broader view of where this is located off of wiley avenue and you see route one as well so we feel it's a very good location and we're really excited for this opportunity it's going to bring about 20 new jobs and this is about a 90 million dollar investment for for our company so really appreciate the time um open up for i'm happy to have any questions answered or anything that you might have because you're the technical guy let me get anybody on the board like talk to this gentleman here okay how are you going to transport your finished goods to the space sites yeah so we do we will put them in trucks so it will be these um these vehicles with these trucks right here we put them in these cylinders and we track them out similar to what we do today i was questioning the route oh the route so yeah so it's going to be down down down route route one will be with the primary uh um they get over to right from wiley avenue and then on route one okay i'm looking at a map here you're going to be going through on wiley to us one to us one and i'm just looking to see if you know there's a lot of small lots there and houses that are along wiley okay now you have a current operation so i assume that you you've been doing this how long has that other plant been there so it started up in 1960 okay so then we've had we've had um some expansions there we today we truck about 40 to 45 40 to 45 truck loads leave the plant today and what will happen with the increase in production so we could see a peak we could see that double to about 90 trucks okay and um but they don't they don't all leave the plant at the same time they they are spaced out and so throughout the day you'll kind of see that moving um maybe you know a handful of trucks an hour it's not a conga line um to get a little background so the truck drivers are lindy employees we do have what we call back to base operations so they kind of come into the facility they check in they do some maintenance and then they go on their routes and then come back but we do not have where they're all going to leave at like 6 a.m it's going to be just make sure it's staggered okay will you store any trucks at your site um yes we do store trucks at our site um another question what are you going to do with the surplus materials that you don't use you can just let them back up into the air so that's that's the purpose of the storage facilities so this is we do have these storage tanks so these storage tanks will be will load up the big one on the on my left is nitrogen the the tube ones are kind of oxygen liquefied oxygen and the small one is argon so we are able to store them um in these in these in these facilities where we put them on trucks however if we do not have a market yes like if we do have too much oxygen or if we produce too much we would vent it you'll vent that what about the other gases that are in breathing air so that you're not going to use so those those are kind of so those would be regular that already in the atmosphere today so those would be any impurities that we find like nox or any sort of particulate matter and so we would vent those back out as well but in higher concentrations not necessarily because we we're taking them right in and then they're separating at at that moment to be they're vented out vented out at that at that moment and then they're and then the oxygen nitrogen argon are captured and pushed along but right right when they can't right when we use the vacuum to suck it in we we vent any impurities right there so it's not any concentrated matter we do not need a state permit for air for this facility environmentally environmental yeah okay um you dumping anything no you're not dumping anything okay so you don't have any ponds i noticed we do have we do have waste water we do have retention ponds we do have waste water um because we have cooling cooling tower facilities and so in order there's a lot of heat concentration that is utilized in this so we do have some of that waste water i don't know if i'm sorry to say we're dumping it but we do have to capture that waste water yeah okay um i'll assure you that stays on site yeah are you going to house any people on that site so we mean by housing as far as like offices facilities not at this site because of our existing site already has the offices that are required and needed that's all thank you anybody else okay i have a question so wiley road is paved but the that section of dixie way or hammock or whatever it is right there is dirt is that correct that's correct okay okay all right okay okay so my question just is so with these trucks leaving like you know and i know they're not going out one after another after another right but like i know traffic in that area does back up are we thinking about uh being a stoplight is there you know anything like that in the works yes so well what we have done and this is our commitment to commissioner delaney we've had a discussion with commissioner delaney um and i'm part of that i reached out to florida dot and we've we've begun having that discussion i talked to um just a couple weeks ago i talked to a team there about the expansion and what that means for additional trucks to that intersection they did a study a few years ago upon lindy's request for the existing facility and they did not find any need but now that we're doubling the capacity additional trucks they are going to evaluate additional study and that's kind of our request and so that is that is ongoing discussions that we are working with dot especially because it's going out with these chemicals right so that that's if your factor there we wouldn't want anybody running in to having an accident with that completely understand yep yes and that's that's that's it that's why we commissioned the study in the first place we feel confident in our truck drivers but as well like we know how accidents happen and occur we do also very um you know accidents can happen but i want to assure you that these tanks have multiple layers to make sure that nothing can get out and and then they're also like is they're also going to be vented very quickly out in the air in case there is an incident question okay yeah it is so you're taking air and out of that air you're taking nitrogen oxygen and argon and then what isn't in that group of three you're putting back into the atmosphere do you know about what percentage of the whole cubic footage of air that you're taking in goes out as not one of those three yeah it's it's i don't know exact percent but it's very very very small so less than one less than one because argon is one percent and we're capturing that in order to produce it there also is we can capture neon zeon and and another gas as well but it's some of the particulate matter particularly that we will be venting back out okay it's very very small trace i just got two small ones i'm sure you've got every epa permitted that one of these plants in the world you've got them so um you know we've got a plant it's not yours that's in north merritt island and it's generated some concerns with the the neighborhood there with some of the sounds now that are created when it was built i think after yours um it was rather quiet when you fire once a year it's not too noisy and now today it's much noisier are your sound differentials different with a newer modern more plan than than the old one is there on north right now so so i'm going to take you to and i do the u.s i'm going to take you to wisconsin because we're building another facility wisconsin kind of closer to your neighborhood and we've talked about the noise factor this is a manufacturing facility right we're on 24 or 7 we had a lot of discussion at public meeting about about noise i would say that our new technology does have efficiencies to mitigate that but what we did in wisconsin was kind of build some burrs around it to do some mitigation for that to reduce the level at the fence line um we we knew that their local organization can't remember the exact number but they had a a noise figure that we at our fence line we were able to get below that yeah um and i would say it's going to be very similar here we don't we do purposely cite it where it's around industrial area but i would say that so from a efficiency standpoint our newer technology is better but i would also verify or classify that this is a manufacturing facility that will have some noise but we should not reach the threshold of any requirement right right because what's happened there on merritt island when they built that plant there was nobody there then everybody came and now they don't like it it's like when you move to the lake right and you you like it at first but you don't like the boats now yeah we we have a little bit of excitement up there but we and we have done in other locations we've been able to put kind of fencing or some noise mitigation measures around if that's that's necessary thank you okay mr chairman i have another question ron uh yes uh you the plant operates 24 hours a day correct yes do your truckers operate 24 hours a day yes okay yes so they'll be going out early in the morning and later i mean you know two three o'clock in the morning yes as whatever our customers need but in this case for spacex they require quite a lot especially for launches and so um and so we we do make sure that we have that capability but they they will be for regular customers yes it will be 24 7 okay thank you like for for if i can just clarify for hospitals for instance usually they have some storage facilities on site as well so we can deliver oxygen on site to a hospital or you know fill up their storage tank so they don't require it at a certain time so we can kind of make sure that's scheduled in for instance ron that almost equates it just two vehicles every hour if they just run all night long so may really it's the fact that you run at night that's got some pluses on it yeah okay is this what the plant currently produces you're just um making more of it yes exactly this is exactly what the plant currently produces and we'll be making more and it's based upon the demand primarily from the aerospace industry how much of the wetlands was going to be affected which of the wetlands less than an acre with mitigation credits or by itself mitigation mitigation credits without the mitigation credits yes what's that what's i'm sorry without the mitigation credits like how much as a whole will the wetlands be affected if you're the hardened report that's in your staff and in the package says it was 5.6 acres that was done in october of last year before they actually had the design for the site plan so what's actually being impacted is about an acre of wet uh half an acre of true wetlands and then you have the 25 foot buffer so it's a full acre that they will get a mitigation credit for about 240 000 to cost but it's only one acre total they have to mitigate and it will be in the mitigation bank in this area that yellen i believe it's called thank you good any more questions um bruce do you want to are you next i think i'm sorry i have one more question and clearly if these you're already producing these so you have you know safety precautions everything in put in place but i mean like i you know and i'm reading you know you had some people who said they you know they're concerned because it is there are some residences around this and zoning for residential right around this area but so i'm okay with like the linn you know but when it comes to the nitrogen i do get frightened so maybe you could just calm ease my fears and tell me what happens and how you make sure that we don't have like any of these leaking vaporized because when i read about this it says when ignited causes boiling liquid expanding vapor and it can bring about massive fireballs and you know i mean there is there's a lot of like negativity and connotation to this so if we're making more and we've got residential areas around us yes it makes me very nervous understood so let me i can talk a little bit about some of the precautions we have first off is that um you said key key point there is when is ignited so this this is if if you vent it it will go right up in the air it's very light materials it'll go right up in the air and so that is the precaution that we have if there is an accident that we would vent it right away before it could be ignited so that's kind of the idea behind some of the safety precautions from a business practice practice obviously we want to contain everything that we produce here so it's that containment is very very important if we are if we have a leak then we're pretty much wasting the money the product that we have so all of these storage facilities our cold box are multi-layered so that we try to do everything we can to prevent that leak because the value of the product so to get really into it if even if one of these tractor trailers were to get an accident you know it would have to penetrate really deep into that to that tanker in order to expose any of the oxygen or any of this any of the gases to leak out and and to ignite if you will but then once that accident happens and there's a case like that there is a there's a switch would immediately um event up into the air so that all that would be eliminated in the process if that makes sense yes thank you it does make sense so i guess my next question of course is have you had any leaks so far with the existing we we have we have not and we have a um i think we're up to almost 10 years or even our trucks have not had any incidents where major incidents that that would classify as something that would have a potential leak i mean we have obviously some fun fender benders and those but that has been we our safety record is very very strong and i get you some more information on on that thank you i build on that for a second kim you done um i'm sorry can i ask can i build on that for a second go ahead um the nitrogen when you vent it out does it go so i'm not a scientist so i don't know how it lays in the air does it go to the ground does it go up does it stay right around it because i think i was reading about the nitrogen and how it can and maybe i have it confused with one of the other elements does it does it bring oxygen like like you can suffocate from it if you're exposed to too much of it not that i'm aware of these are atmospheric gases so does it go it would go up it goes up so it wouldn't like settle down and go into a neighborhood or around an accident or something like that not like a processed gas that we'd have such as hydrogen or carbon carbon dioxide or so etc this is this will be kind of this atmospheric gases are light they'll go right up and there's there's not side effects to that for the neighborhoods no because it's their air that we breathe we have 80 percent nitrogen around us that we're breathing on databases so okay i read probably exactly the same thing that you read and it does say the hazard would be as this as fix so i'm sorry for work with me thank you thank you guys all right and as it evaporates right that it displaces oxygen in the air which can lead to suffocation enclosed or in poorly ventilated areas so that's why i wanted to know if you had the safety precautions already there because at that i read the exact same thing and that is obviously you know a concern to the average citizen and to the people who live are going to potentially live around it i think the key there is poorly ventilated i mean i'm i'm thinking of an instance in our facility or on the streets where we are an open air environment where the ventilation immediately would go would go up out if you're in a closed facility with a lot of nitrogen yes there are some dangers there but i don't foresee that in this i know we have safety precautions in our plant that that would not occur i don't see that would be an instance in the public thank you uh let's get back to the roads issue sure i'm not familiar with the area that much which roads are unpaved in your near your site so hammock so if you see this up here you got to go why the road and then and then the hammock road going up to where our facility our expansion facility would be so it's just hammock road that is uh unpaved yes the wiley is the wiley is yes wiley's and hammock trail isn't it trail trail now still road uh do you have any plans to pave that road yourselves um i if if yes if our truck if our trucks are going on it yeah yes like um yes okay you want to you want to come and talk give you a chance to i've seen that facility and when the trucks leave the gate they're on probably less what less than a hundred feet of dirt road before they hit wiley it's just this is further north so they're going to have more of a dirt road to travel on yeah right now hammock hammock road uh basically stops a couple feet north of the intersection with wiley uh right at their driveway so when they come out of the distance facility they come right out but the new driveway is going to be up past that ditch so we're going to pave it up to the next driveways so any driveways we put on hammock we're going to pave up to and if you look you can kind of see what it makes sense to do that well we'll have to it is a county right away and they will require that thanks bruce you're welcome thank you can i ask a question about the noise yes yes thank you um jones road which borders the property is one of the few parks that we have in north brevard very few parks we have in north brevard um i was out there not so long ago and you can definitely hear the noise and expanding the plant closer to the park on jones road i wonder if it might make it unappealing for north people in north brevard to continue to visit that park based on the noise and i know you were talking about some noise mitigation strategies do you are those in place or is that just something that you're going to consider doing that's something right now we'll consider doing um and so yeah we can have more discussion of that i am not aware of it uh having any impact um that far north because of the green field that's around so those two rectangles where the facility will be coming in and you say right above jones road i was i was out at jones road a week and a half ago um at the park and it's very loud at the park okay it was it was really weird because on hammock i didn't really hear it so much which would be your residential side but on the back side where the park is it was very loud okay okay then that's something that we'll definitely want to make sure we have in consideration i'm not aware of that so i appreciate it your presentation i just have a few comments okay i'm gonna let me grab the audience rule that's what i've been trying to say anybody in the audience like speak for against this seeing none come up please i just handed out the site plan um that shows the road that mr moya was talking about if anyone had any questions that is that is a binding site plan that's what you will see that's what you will get there may be some minor tweaks when there's more engineering but that's the whole purpose of this conditional use permit i i did want to draw your attention if you look at page 51 the aerial map you can actually see it here pretty well too this isn't a commercial this isn't a residential neighborhood there's very few homes around here there are i can see three in the picture on page 51 also too and when you compare it to that site plan there's still a quarter of the property it's 21 acres that's not being developed to the north so there's still quite a bit of buffer natural buffer there as well we still need to meet performance standards if the noise level is too high at the property line then something will have to be done because we still have to meet all performance standards of the code i also want you to look at page 53 on the wetlands map most everything to the west of the existing site is wetlands and it's residential it won't be developed it can't be under brevard county code and the property to the north lindy actually looked at purchasing that to move to the north it's almost all wetlands so that didn't make it possibly there's currently residential so not a lot can be built around this in the way of residential but again if there's a noise problem they have to fix it so i did want to mention that i did want to also mention where the existing site is already has the conditional use permit for heavy industrial was granted a long time ago this is the 10 and a half acres to the north part portion of this site the other items i wanted to mention uh in the staff report is that they mentioned there's no concurrency problems there's water there's sewer there's everything they need the raid the road will be paved up to the new entrance up there and anything else that's needed if right away is needed whatever they're committed to doing that as well so with that we would ask that you approve the conditional use permit if you have any other questions we're here to answer them as well you know kim one thing that makes me look positive of this is the fact that it's got a track record it isn't like they're just coming into town and we're going to see what they've got but to 1960s he's the 1960s probably just says 66 but they're not always correct at least you got a track record i've had no explosions okay was there any comment from redfish ranch just north of you about this going in i don't even know what they do up there if they just fish or if it's a restaurant or it's it's a boat launch just a boat launch just a boat launch okay i'm not moved to any more what's pleasure ruth go ahead you want to make a recommendation um i can recommend for um we recommend approval with um the county commission requiring a stoplight at us1 and uh wiley road and noise mitigation for one of the few parks that north brevard has that would be my my motion okay i would second that motion how's that that's a state road you can't require that there's no way for us to dictate that it's going to be hard to justify if you got two vehicles two trucks every hour and you got a total of 90 during the course of 24 i did want to mention we have employed ltg to look at this they're looking at the crash reports they're talking to fdot if there's something that can be done or needs to be done such as lowering the speed limit ltg is looking at that because we did commit that to commissioner delaney i've been in touch with josh black so we are looking at that i just don't have anything to report other than there's only 10 000 trips a day at that intersection so i do have that report thank you and we need a motion we have one okay do we want to vote on this uh on the what ruth brought up so there's a motion in second on looking at looking at not requiring i think is that true looking at then yes yeah okay there's a motion second on the floor all in favor signify by saying aye aye any uh opposite like sign i guess that passed so you can take a look at that now we need the motion on the uh on the whole item that was that was for the signal i think it was approval with that was that with the approval okay approval with the light and the noise um with the boundaries right but then we kind of amended it to looking at putting a light in so i think what we've done is we now you can't do that yeah no well so did we amend the motion to uh approval with looking at putting a light in and and um requiring noise uh reduction or noise boundaries if needed if needed that's kind of open that won't work okay so my understanding of what the motion was was a recommendation to look at putting in a traffic light and noise mitigation that was my understanding that was my understanding as well for the record we want to if we need to clarify that let's let's do that okay i apologize i i meant for approval with those things if i didn't say that clear enough then we have to vote to look at those things so you're not willing to amend your uh your original motion i'm willing to make a motion for approval with them looking at the light and noise mitigation for the park it's kind of open-ended though just looking at it i don't know the proper way to say it i'm sorry you don't want it as a condition do it you would you would you want it as a condition that they said i can't you can't make it a condition for the light it might be if if the study warrants those that it be included in the cup it sounded like the applicant stated that they were doing some studies on the traffic and that they were potentially looking at the noise impacts okay so if warranted then those things would be included in the cup that's a better way to say it then i would say so yes okay so if warranted i would recommend approval if warranted while they're looking at it for the light and noise mitigation for the park so you're amending your motion okay if that makes everything better does it need a second i will second that i didn't realize we couldn't you know with the light so thank you you make sure we have this right we're not there's no way we can mandate a signal there i mean that that's going to be that's going to be beyond our area of expertise right that's why i said it based off of their studies if it's warranted like mr s is recommended but anybody i mean when you talk about signalization and you only got they got 45 there now so they got 45 more trucks and now we want to signalize it i think that's going to be a tough instrument i mean i think if the studies right indicate hey this we're the we have these trucks and they're carrying very dangerous you know toxins and if somebody runs into them it could be a big problem like if the studies indicate it then the studies indicated if the studies don't then then we don't have you know this is out of our hands but i just think you know we should have these studies done the problem with studies i mean they're easy but they're extremely extremely expensive it's underway so before a vote may i just understand so if it was just a blanket approval they're doing the study anyway to determine whether or not it needs a signal and or noise mitigation right so effectively we're just memorializing that in the motion is that correct if there's a noise issue then they would be subject to the code they would have to fix that anyway if they're required to put in a traffic light based on a study then they would have to do that understanding is this is an approval of this as written and then based upon whatever those studies come up that's going to happen regardless right so we got a motion a second all in favor signify by saying aye aye aye any in opposition that passed unanimously i think that was a yes i think it was a yes next one is there is there no i thought they had a little tidbit there okay any tidbits i thought you had one i need a motion to adjourn so motion to adjourn