Brevard County Board of County Commissioners on 2025-12-02 5:00 PM - Regular - Dec 02, 2025

Thank you very much. Our nation's first president was not known and did not make his reputation by praying powerful prayers. But George Washington did not know Brevard County or the county commission. But the prayer he prayed in the 18th century could have just as well been prayed for you all. And I'll use it as my intro. Heavenly Father, I now make it my earnest prayer that God would have you and the county over which you preside in his holy protection. That he would incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of obedience to government, to entertain a brotherly affection for one another. And finally, that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice and to love mercy. Lord, tonight I pray for the health and the strength of this body, for each individual member to have discernment, to hear, and willingness to listen. Lord, grant them wisdom beyond all learning and gifting they have been given. Give them a striving for excellence in service to all. And Lord, the satisfaction of a day's work well done, even in the face of opposition. It's in your name we pray. Amen. Be led by Commissioner Rob Teltner. Please join me in the pledge. First item on the agenda is approval of the minutes for September 16th, 2025, regular meeting, and October 14th, 2025, regular meeting. Motion to approve. Second. Motion to second. All in favor, signify by saying yay. Yay. Yay. Motion carries unanimously. Okay, we have a resolution recognizing the 40th anniversary of WESH 2's Share Your Christmas Food Drive. I'd like to ask Megan and Tim to come up, and I'll read the resolution if you certainly will have the floor to say a few things as well. Do you want me to go say something first? I think we can read the resolution. Okay, go ahead. Okay, go. It's up to you. You can read the resolution. Okay, all right, and we certainly thank WESH 2 for their good work and help and support the community in this important matter. Whereas 40 years, WESH 2 News and Central Florida community have come together to make the holidays brighter for neighbors facing hunger through Share Your Christmas and, whereas what began as a simple act of kindness in 1986 has grown into one of the area's most cherished holiday traditions, uniting families, volunteers, and community partners to support local kids, families, and seniors through Second Harvest Food Bank in Central Florida. Whereas WESH 2, work with Second Harvest Food Bank of Central Florida through Share Your Christmas, has collected more than $10 million and 5 million pounds of food in the past 40 years. Whereas operating in multiple counties each December, Share Your Christmas has been a one-day as well as week-long event evolving over the years as needs in the community have changed. Whereas WESH 2 Share Your Christmas broadcasts have highlighted the needs of residents of Brevard County for the past 40 years and ensure all food drive donations made it to Brevard County stay in Brevard County in the benefit of its citizens. Now, therefore, be it resolved that the Board of County Commissioners of Brevard County, Florida, hereby recognize the 40th anniversary of WESH 2's Share Your Christmas and celebrates the milestone of four decades of generally compassionate and community impact. Come and order and adopt it in regular session this second day of December, A.D. I entertain a motion. Motion to approve. Second. I represent Commissioner Feldner and Commissioner, seconded by Commissioner Delaney. Any discussions? All those in favor, signify for saying yay. Yay. Yay. Motions carries unanimously. Okay. I'd like to give you the board. I just wanted to say thank you so much, first and foremost. My name is Megan Moriarty. I'm newer to the area. I just moved here in January to join the WESH 2 news team, specifically to represent Brevard County. So thank you so much for having us here. And on behalf of the entire team, thank you so much. We'll be accepting all those donations next week at the Brevard Zoo on December 12th. And, yeah, we hope everyone can come out. It should be a good time. Fantastic. Thank you so much. And please let all the folks know back at WESH 2 how much we appreciate their commitment to the community. And at the Brevard County Supervisor of Elections, we've been partnering with WESH since 2009 when my predecessor, Lori Scott, first kicked off the program. And in the 16 years, we've collected over 6,800 pounds of food just in that time. We are currently accepting food donations right now, right across the hall and in all four of our administrative locations. And it's always been our common belief that everybody on the holidays should be able to have a shared meal with their families. So we appreciate our partnership. Thank you. Thank you. I think we'd like to get a photo. We want to get a photo. And I'd like for the whole full commission to join us if they can. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. That brings us to our consent agenda. The entire consent agenda will be passed on one motion to include everything under Section F, unless something is asked to be removed. Are there any items that are needing to be removed? We have no cards. Move to approve. I'll second. There's a motion and a second to approve. Any discussion? All those in favor, signify by saying yay. Yay. Motion carries unanimously. Okay. We are now going to the public comment cards. And Diane Nagel is our first speaker, talking about drainage. You might have known me as somebody else. Yeah. Where do you want me to put the pictures? Let's just set them back. Sure. Okay. Against the chair. Stacey, can you grab that? Against them? Mm-hmm. Getting that. All right. All right. That's it. How are you doing? Staying at the floor. No. Okay. Is my three minutes start now? Yes. Okay. I'm here because I'm upset. I'm hot. And I'm going to tell you why. It's because of your district, District 1. And I am used to working with commissioners that do something. And I can honestly say I'm very disappointed with your office. They do nothing except, okay, okay, we'll take care of it. But we can't call District 1 Road and Bridge. You'll have to call them. This was my fifth phone call to your office. I was finally told by somebody that I have to call the District 1 Road and Bridge office. I said, okay, what's their phone number? Well, I don't have that. And I said, oh, okay. Well, what time do they close? Because it was 3.43 in the afternoon. She said, I don't know. I said, okay. So I found the number, and I called Road and Bridge. They were closed. But the tape message said, we're open Monday through Friday from 7.30 to 3.30 and closed on holidays. And I said, okay. So I called back to your office, and I told whoever answered the same lady. I said, by the way, your Road and Bridge department is open from 7.30 to 3.30 Monday through Friday except holidays. So now you know. So that was my conversation the fifth time that I called their office in District 1. I was told originally that something would be done. It would be looked into that my backyard was underwater. This was, what day was it, Nancy? I don't know. November 12th? November 12th, something like that, around 11th. Anybody know? 26th of October. Okay. Well, that's the backyard in the middle of the night. I have four young children there under the age of eight that are scared because their house is flooding, and there's a river in their backyard. But nobody cares, nobody from District 1, nobody. So they don't even come out and check it. I don't care. This happened a couple years ago, and we were told, oh, well, we'll take care of this. A couple years ago, nothing happened. There are other people here today. I'm not the only one. You want to raise your hand, some of you? People were run out of homes. They don't have any homes anymore. Their young children have no homes. And nobody cares, nobody comes out and looks at it. Your office doesn't have a clue, clue what they're doing. I'm used to working with county commissioners like John Hurdle and Joe Wickham and Lee Winter that do something. They'd have a sump pump out there pumping that stuff out. They would not accept the incompetence that your office provides. And I'm hot. And I'd like to ask that you have an agenda item for this and you get something done. We don't want to hear, oh, it's going to cost too much money to fix this. I know because I own several homes in this county. I have wonderful drainage on Merritt Island, Taj Mahal drainage. I have Taj Mahal drainage in the Canaveral Groves. But it wasn't provided by District 1 office. It was before she or others before her ever got there. The ones that have been in District 1 have been asleep. There's been no drainage in District 1. They have gone without while the rest of the county got all the money from stormwater drainage taxes. Thank you. I'd like an agenda item respectfully. This is a major problem. Ma'am, what street are you on? Oh. On Westwood? What? Are you on Westwood? Am I what? On Westwood? Westwood. What street? Kirby. Kirby. My neighbors are gone, truly. It's a rental house. My husband was born and raised there. So it's a rental house. We still have it, but we have other houses and I have other houses. I'm just telling you I'm upset. Thank you, Diane. I'll be in touch. You got it, Thad? Yep. Thank you. Sure do. Yes. May I call over? Commissioner. Tom, thanks. Sure. Absolutely. Mark, would you thank you for coming up? Mark, are you aware of this situation on Kirby? I am, Commissioner. Can you shed some light on why? Because even the other day, I've known Diane for 40 years. So when I rode up there, the streets are still wet. I understand there's a lake behind Kirby and this spring fed. Is that any truth to that? Yes. So, Commissioner, there is an artesian well. We're not sure exactly where it is coming from. But I do want to articulate that there's a couple things that were said by the Speaker. While certainly empathetic to the concern, Road and Bridge does not handle private lot drainage. They don't do it in your district. They don't do it in District 1. They don't do it in any of the districts. We handle public road infrastructure. Now, should the Board want us to do something more? Certainly, we are at the pleasure of the Board, but we would need funding and resources to do so. But specific to that, we have been out there. We did a maintenance project about a year ago to address some failing infrastructure within our easement. That was corrected, but we also have a drainage project that has been explained to the residents, is what I'm told by my staff. We've been on site. We've answered emails. We've answered phone calls. We have both a Dixie Village drainage project, which is roughly $4 million. We also have a Westwood drainage project, which is another $2 million. We are working on the design, and right now we don't have the funding for both those projects. But given the funding constraints that my department has, we will continue to work with the Board to figure out ways to find that money. And we'll also be submitting next year for state appropriations. But if we can get to the 50% mark, because typically they look for that. Okay. Chair, another question? Yeah, go ahead. Did I understand you in the first presentation, you just started your presentation, that we don't control rear lot drainage in that sort of thing? That's correct. It's actually in the Brevard County Code that rear lot and side lot drainage are requirements of the homeowners to address. So if the Board would like us to change that, we certainly were up in the District 1 area throughout October. There was a lot of flooding, and we did what we could in the public infrastructure, but we had a lot of homes flooding. And, again, I'm empathetic to that, but we don't have the resources to handle that. I understand. Chair, please. Absolutely. Go ahead. Just finish your line of questions. With that being said, those homes, when they were built, was there drainage grades on side swells coming to the root? Or did they have been filled up by homeowners? Or do you know? So I don't know specifically to that particular house, but that is a problematic issue for us countywide. And it's something that we are going to be briefing to the Board about some drainage concerns that we have and how possibly to address them in our budget workshop. Right. If that natural lake has an artesian well, by state law, aren't you supposed to cap it? Isn't somebody supposed to cap it? I can't answer that, but I can say that our staff looked at it, and they were concerned about when they attempted to cap it and the flooding that appeared to come from that. So they decided it was best to leave it alone for now. Okay. All right. Let me ask you, stay there. Virginia, could you come up, please? Well, Virginia's walking up. I have a question on something you said. I'm going to fill the time. Now, if I live and there's a public drainage easement in my backyard, the county would be responsible for that public drainage easement, wouldn't they? So, again, Commissioner, in our code, and I don't have it committed to memory, but it actually says that even if it's dedicated to the public side and rear lot drainage is the responsibility of the homeowner. Now, if I'm going into a public easement, though, I'm a private homeowner, and I start working in what is considered a public easement, do I have to have the permission of the easement holder to do the work there? Technically, you do need to obtain a permit. That is one, as Commissioner Goodson was alluding to, we have a problem throughout the county where we have drainage easements which are being filled in. They are one of the major issues that we have. In addition to that, we have failed private coverts. So there's a number of issues that we intend to brief to the board, but that's the reader's digest version, so to speak. Yeah, and we've talked about that. That is a serious problem. Okay. Now, thank you, Chair. Virginia, what is the ruling on open artesian wells in the state of Florida? The Water Management District has a well-plugging program to assist homeowners with getting those plugged if they're on private property. What if it's on a county lake? I assume that's a county lake. Right, then we would be the funding partner. Is that a county lake up there? Does anybody know that answer? I don't know. I'm not familiar with the site. We can certainly look into that, Commissioner. Yeah, please look into that and let the board know because I was under this false assumption that St. John's wanted artesian wells capped. Yes, they do. So who would help pay for the capping of that well? Well, so the Water Management District gets an allocation each year in their budget, and it's, you know, first come, first serve, but typically they'll cover all the costs until they run out of budget. Now, if that be a public lake or a public well or a dark easing well, Mark, do you know if there's an outflow structure that allows the water to leave the lake but go in a correct area rather than Diane Tingly Dunn's house? So the maintenance project that we did last year corrected within our easement from that area to the road a failing culvert. So I believe we've addressed that, but we could certainly take another look. Then why would there be standing water in the street today? So that is why we have the two projects that I had mentioned, one for Dixie Village, one for Westwood. So we have, you know, a lot of issues throughout District 1 that require, just because it wasn't well planned, we have the easement issues, the culvert issues we talked about. We have, depending on when the subdivisions were built, if they were before the early 2000, it predates our subdivision code for stormwater. And so we have certain older communities that don't have retention ponds. We have areas that are blocked for, you know, various reasons. So there's a number of reasons that have led us here, you know, 30, 40 years later. But we do have a mess, and, you know, we don't have the funding to address it. If I may. Commissioner Delaney. Board, this is a result of some of the stuff I've been talking about for months. Ma'am, I'm so sorry what you guys are going through. I am. I have been all over District 1, especially during that time, all over. And you guys are not the only ones that are suffering. And I'm not saying that to diminish what you're saying, because I am with you. I understand. I have been making slideshows so that I could present these things to my board. And up until now, we haven't really had any movement about, you know, wanting to discuss this in depth. And, you know, it takes a lot of effort for people from District 1 and District 5, because you're, you know, at the south end of the county, to come out here. And we have a lot of people here that took the effort. And I hope that this puts a sense of urgency. I keep hearing from this board that we're supposed to represent the entire county. But I'm the only one who's been advocating for District 1. And I keep getting voted against. And I'm about done with it. And so are my constituents, obviously. So during that time, Mark, didn't I call you? I don't know. I can't even count how many times. Basically begging to see if we could get back trucks out. And yes, Commissioner, over and over again. And it just isn't in our code. We weren't allowed. And I was told that I would have to get board approval to make that happen. He's lost their homes. Yes, ma'am. 30. I know. Way more than that. Way more than that. No, that's just in our neighborhood. I know. Please, if you're going to speak. Fill out a card. I know. Fill out a card, and we'll hear you. Okay, good. I can't afford my card. I guess the last thing I'll say is this is a critical issue. We're in an emergency. We're not even in a critical issue. It is an emergency, what we're dealing with in District 1. So I'm asking you, board, to please hear the people that are, hear these people that have traveled this way. Hear them. Mr. Chair, can I? Commissioner Goodson, I'm impressed. How did you know there was an artesian well there? That's a big county. Well, you know, as dumb as I am, I do fall into a mud hole once in a while. Mr. Chair, can I address that real quickly? Yes. So staff was looking at that while the last conversation was going on, and it is a private lake. Yeah, and the district's program does assist private homeowners with well plugging, and the phone number is 386-643-1152. Now, is that a state number you're giving us? Yeah, that's the St. John's River Water Management District's artesian well plugging program. And they do that for free now? They used to have a fee, but they waived that fee. There's no match or fee anymore for the private homeowners if they have a free-flowing well that needs to be plugged. I don't know how much, I don't know how big the well is. It could be four inches or 12 inches, you know, which there could be a lot of water going in that lake. So why would I want to call them when you're in that position to call them? They know you much better. So I would like staff to reach out to them for this capping and this lake and get back to us, get back to us with what you're going to tell us, you know, it's going to cost. I just can't imagine if you can control the water that goes in the lake, that would help somewhere down the road, would it not? So I believe it will, but, you know, also, like I mentioned, we have a lot of other issues. We also have a very high water table. So even with our project, we are still going to have issues in that overall area. That might be true, Mark, but also you might release, it might condone the drastic stuff and help it a little. Right. I think indirectly, certainly. Now, the other comment I'd like to know back from staff, is there an overflow structure for that water to get out of that lake to go somewhere rather than in these people's homes and these people's streets? Because I would think if you pipe a ditch into the lake somewhere along the line, it would make you understand you better have an outflow to get the water out of the lake. So can you do some studying and get back to us on the next board meeting and letting us know about capping the well and where does the water go once it leaves the lake? It's just common sense. Those free-flowing artesian wells can generate massive amounts of water over time. And you're elevating the lake. You're elevating the water table. And that may have played a contributing factor in the flooding. I think we also should ask the Water Management District, if they can, and it first comes first service the way they operate, but if they can prioritize some of these free-flowing wells that are threatening public health and safety and property, because obviously by focusing on these type of wells that are causing significant flooding problems to prioritize would make a lot of sense. One more question, Chair. Yes, go ahead. Virginia, can you tell the board where are artesian wells allowed today? Where would you have an artesian well that's legal and that's allowed? I would comment to Deseret Ranch, comment to Kempfer Ranch, South Brevard County, to any ranch and grasslands down there. But as far as having one on Tucker Lane above here, have one, has the Viera people close all theirs? You know, it's a state program. It's a Water Management District program, so I'm not familiar. I'd have to research and get back to you. Please do. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. It was very well said. You know, in Florida, we have the artesian aquifer, and it's unique. If you dig a pipe a certain amount of depth, then water will flow. You don't have to pump it. And it floods. It depletes the aquifer, but also floods the surface waters, too, and that's why they're not a good thing. Maybe in the old days they were. And maybe Ponce de Leon thought maybe that was the fountain of youth, but they can wreak havoc. Hopefully this will be one of the things we can do. Commissioner Delaney? I do just want to make sure that we're not zeroing in on this one thing, because while the artisanal well might be one issue, it's by far not the end-all, be-all of the flooding that's going to be. Oh, I can assure you we know that. Okay. Yeah. I can assure you. I just want to make sure we're not zeroing in. Okay. Just as for my own education here, a technical issue, once it's capped or plugged, does that allow the area to be sort of a natural stormwater retention pond after that, potentially? It would depend on the elevations, but yeah. I mean, if water's coming up there now and pooling there, it seems that's where water wants to go, right? That's the low area. It would depend on the surrounding elevations. Commissioner, I think we'd have to look at it. So again, communicating with staff while we're here. We don't believe it was designed. We're going to check with St. John's. Maybe the residents know. A lot of good questions. We, you know, it's a private lake, so we may not have the information, but we'll look to see what we can find. Just one follow-up. A lot of people have these food-flowing wells in these lakes because in the dry time of the year, the lakes really draw down and they expose a lot of the shoreline. It may not look as attractive as having a lake with a high-water table, but the problem is when you don't allow that water to dry down, you get a gully washer, there's no place for the water to go but people's houses or yards. Commissioner Felton? I was just going to say in my district, I can appreciate that there are older neighborhoods that don't have stormwater retention. And then there's the newer areas, like over here, where there's stormwater retention everywhere. And it's hard when you're contemplating how can we retrofit older areas with stormwater where it doesn't exist. So I know that's an ongoing challenge. And so we'll continue to work on ditches and some of those other things. I was just curious if you plugged it, if it would become a stormwater retention pond. Anyway, you're the engineer. The water has to get there. Again, probably couldn't hurt, but we'll have to look at it. Yeah. Okay. All right. This board, I appreciate those who appeared. We've got more cards about drainage, too. This commission and other commissions, you're going back way to my first term, spent thousands of an hour trying to address drainage issue, and I can assure you we will continue to do that and more. We've talked about master stormwater plans, master drainage plans, surveys that need to be done. I actually had done an appropriation bill in the legislature where we try to redefine the floodplain because our floodplain maps are not up to date in Florida. We have a lot of work to do. And there's going to be some tough decisions to do it, and we're going to need your voices to make that happen. We have another card. Yes. Beth Scott. Good evening. Thank you. Respectfully, I feel like this is kind of lip service. We have owned property in Westwood Villa since 2002. The family has owned property on Kirby since 1960-something. It belonged to my former mother-in-law. During Ian, there was nine inches of standing water in the neighborhood. During this storm on the 26th, there was nine inches in the garage of our home, four and a half inches inside our house. When I opened the front door, it looked like a storm river, literally a raging river coming from the back of my house to the front. The entire top of the street was underwater. I have photographs. I sat in my car and watched the water rise. Nothing that could be done. This is the second time, as I said, we got told during Ian it was because there was a broken pipe on Parrish Road that served the neighborhood up off of Parrish Road. The engineer assured us that the lake on the property behind Kirby had nothing to do with it. And before they could even fix the Parrish Road issue, the culvert failed right there on Kirby and Bryn Mawr that runs behind our neighbors' houses. We watched as they pumped the water out from the lake behind, trying to that culvert, which is what caused that culvert to fail. We sat there and watched it. Respectfully, this is not a new problem. This is a problem because we have allowed overgrowth without paying attention to the neighbors and the surrounding areas. Plain and simple. We bought that house on Bryn Mawr in 2002. It's still, according to the drainage maps, is not in a flood zone. I guarantee I'm to you, it's a flood zone. I have pictures. My kids now have to take all of their stuff out of their house again with no insurance, no way to cover it, and replace everything all over again. You need to realize that the growth in this county needs to consider the older subdivisions, not just what you're putting in new. Don't let what you can build up here on this person's property affect me down here. I shouldn't have to have flood insurance, right? You said move the water out of my backyard. Well, during Ian, I made sure that occurred. I have sump pumps that run all the drainage water out of my backyard to the road, right? That's my responsibility, is to get the water out of my backyard so it doesn't flood my house, right? Didn't do any good. Respectfully, please fix the problem. Dale Berry? Dale Berry. Oh, there he is. Yeah, I live on Bran Marr Drive. There was 18 inches of water in my house for over 12 hours. The ditch that you call drainage behind my house floods every time it rains. And they spent a lot of money on that, the culvert that passes Kirby Street. It seemed like it did any good. What would have been helpful if the governor was involved and declared a disaster area so we could get some federal help. You guys can't do it. Trump seems pretty eager to come in and help people, so why weren't they involved? No one has heard anything about this flood until this meeting. For you, a month ago, when we were trying to pump our houses out, that drainage ditch behind my house is supposed to be cleared every year. You know when the last time it was cleared? Probably about five years ago. That's a main drainage ditch. They come in with the big machines that pulls up all the trees and clears out the waterway. Why don't you do it? I mean, I don't have that machine. And it wasn't until our backdoor neighbors called and called and called and called for years before it was ever cleared. You know, I don't like replacing everything in my house, and I lost a lot. I just rent, but our house is the lowest house on Brandmar Drive. A neighbor of mine, make this short, neighbor of mine, his house burned down. Took him two years to put the permits in. When he rebuilt his house, they forced him to raise the foundation two feet. And what does that look like to all the neighbors that he lives by? Please, do something. Our next speaker is Sandra Sullivan. Sandra Sullivan. I've been coming here for eight years and run a local Facebook page called, or group called Waves Action. And I've been saying, many times we got mocked on the lagoon tax. I'm just appalled. I'm going to say the lagoon tax is a scam. We had nearly 21 million gallons dumped to the Indian River Lagoon in 2022 and 2023. Appalling. Who knew? Testing shows E. coli in the surface water. There's issues on both those plants. That was at Sykes Creek and South Beaches, mostly South Beaches, District 3, where 19 million of that came from. There's issues with the well and consent orders. And the lagoon tax, what we voted for, included AWT upgrades. So it's $2.4 million on the soil plan for that. But it's $18 million to do the work, which was awarded in 2022. Nothing's been done. The infrastructure everybody knows is an issue. He's fining Brevard County for not reporting sewage dumping since 2023. Consent orders on these sewage treatment plants, both on your monitoring wells, which you're not monitoring. You know why? Because sewage has a way of coming up, upwelling. Sewage dumping is the largest source of pollution. You can pour all the money you want in the lagoon tax. But if you're dumping sewage to that degree, 21 million gallons of sewage, and that wasn't a peep. We didn't know about it. I looked it up on Oculus and found that information. Now, regarding these comments on the flooding, they don't know, but I know because I come to these meetings. Katie knows, because Katie fought for this, that you guys removed the density limitation from the comprehensive plan, which is going to increase the density hugely. We have four floodplains. And so, if I look back on the last eight years of what topic has filled this room more than any other issue, and we even had somebody recently saying they had to buy a boat because of their flooding recently. But the issue that has plagued Brevard is flooding. And what you guys did in the comprehensive plan is so incredibly irresponsible for the future flooding, you're going to have way more people than this coming in here. Now, I have an award for you guys. And I call this the We Got Mucked Award. One to you. One to you. Thank you so much. One to you. Congratulations. Thank you. Next speaker is Teresa Williams. Sorry, I forgot one. I knew I had five. The county manager. Thank you. It looks like Christmas is coming early for us. Hi, my name is Teresa Williams, and I'm a resident at 3050 Kirby Drive. October 25th is the last evening that I was able to spend in my home due to this flooding. We were on Harrison Avenue. Four hours, enough rain fell that we almost did not make it home. There were sections of Titusville where water was washing up over the hood of my SUV. We were stranded. We had to have someone with a lifted truck come and rescue us and take us home. You want to know where that pond is draining that's directly behind my house into my pool, into my home, into my neighbor's home that lived directly next to me. Drywall has come out. Flooring has come out. I don't have a kitchen. I can't live in my home. You mentioned that there's a $2 million budget for Westwood, a $4 million budget for Kirby might have those numbers mixed up. We bought a home with my mother in 1988 on Westwood Drive, 3320 Westwood Drive. Every single time it rains, Westwood Drive floods to the point that cars have to be rescued. Emergency services have to be called out. So there's more money that's being wasted because the county refuses to do anything about this problem. Now, when the rain recedes and the waters recede from Westwood Drive, the streets dry. However, if you go to Kirby Drive right now, there is water actively flowing down the gutters, down Kirby Drive. You can go around the curve toward Westwood and you can see where it is coming out of the cracks in people's driveways. And it's real easy to sit up here and say, budget this, budget that, commission this, vote that. But the fact of the matter is, how many of you are able to go home to your bed tonight? I can't. I can't because the county refuses to do anything. They send people out to Westwood Drive and they dig a hole and they put a patch. You know what we've got now on Westwood Drive? Patches, potholes and a flood every single time it rains. Insurance will not cover the damage done to our homes because it overflowed from a natural source. I was catching catfish in my pool. I cannot go home because of the problem in this county. I am completely displaced because of the problem in this county. I have a home that my church, thank God, is coming together to help me repair because clearly my church cares more about me and my welfare and my home than my county does. And that's a damn shame. You need to do something about it and you need to do it quick. Thank you. I think that was our last card. Okay, thank you and we will definitely, I know we have a lot of work to do and it's a problem that took some time to create. It's going to take some time and resources to fix. But we hope that you will be here rooting us on as we start hearing those type of proposals to fix this problem. Okay, we'll move on from public comments to unfinished business. Excuse me, may I have a comment please? I filled out a card. Okay, let's see if we can find them. If you're past the first five, you speak at the end. Our public comment policy is the first five comment cards. Go first, NG. I apologize. No worries. Yeah, we need to, we don't have a card. Did you guys fill out cards? Public comment section. I apologize. That's okay. All right, good. And the way it will. It's J2. Okay. Okay. We have that. Got it. We do have that. Okay, we'll see if we can get through this agenda as quickly as possible so we can hear from the next public comment. You want to let us speak on this issue? We will. Make an exception. If you pull out a card, you will. He's speaking on a different license, so it's not this issue. Okay. Okay, this is unfinished business and this is the board direction. With the city of Melbourne's request to amend the interlocal agreement governing the old Galley Riverfront Community Redevelopment Agency. This item was tabled from the November 18th meeting, 2025. I know Commissioner Felton, you've been working on this issue. I'll probably give you the floor. Mr. Chair, I'd like to hear from the cards. I think Melbourne's here tonight. Let them speak and see what it is that they're proposing at this point. And then we could go on. Are there cards for them? Yeah, there are cards. Yeah. For I-1. Why don't we, we're in the order of the weather filled up, but I think it would be helpful to first hear from the city of Melbourne. Jenny Lamb, probably let's let her speak first. Good afternoon and evening. Thank you for having us here tonight, Commissioners. After the November 18th County Commission meeting, we, the city of Melbourne had a, oh, Jenny Lamb, city manager. I'm sorry. I don't know if I need to address myself there. After the November 18th Commissioner's meeting, the Melbourne City Council had a discussion item on their November 25th agenda. We discussed some of the comments that were made during, from the different commissioners, and we came to a consensus. I did send a letter last Wednesday, the day after the council meeting, and sort of went over some of those terms. I'll try to do this as briefly as possible. So as far as the sunset date, our council did agree that we could change that from 2038 to 2033. And that is in the revised interlocal agreement that it's in Section 4. And then also in regards to the number of parking spaces, we heard the concerns about the original requirement of the 90% of the public. And I don't think I explained that properly the last time. So the basis of the original agreement, where we said 90% of the originally proposed 300 spaces, because that was what was originally proposed. So in the revised, in the red line version of the agreement, we have agreed to 270 spaces, which is 90% of the 300. So we're back to those original terms. And then, as far as low-impact development, we did coordinate with our engineering department and also your natural resources department. And in looking at that, and our city council agreed to incorporate reasonable green infrastructure design elements for the stormwater system for the parking garage project. And that is in Section 5. So then in regards to free parking, we heard that we had proposed, it was originally 50, we had proposed five years of free parking without any type of payment. And so the current proposal is for 15 years, no charges, 15 years after it opens. And then for the next 10 years, it would be only the amount that would capture maintenance costs. And the reason that the council came to this decision was, is we recognize that there are long-term maintenance and operational costs of the garage. So that gives a total of 25 years with those restrictions on the paid parking, or unpaid parking, excuse me. Sorry, I misspoke there. And then some of the other concerns that were addressed were that there is no fee differential, like between city residents and non-city residents. And that was included in Section 9D of the interlocal. And then as far as the rate structure, making sure that if rates are charged, that they don't exceed what the operational and maintenance costs are. And that is in Section 9C. And if you didn't, I don't know if you received the interlocal agreement, but I'm happy I have copies here of you, if you did not receive those. Okay. So, I did that in my allotted time. Great. Any questions? We have the mayor also as Phil. The mayor's here for questions. I want to recognize your presence. Okay. Do you have other cards, sir? We do. I think I want to hear all that. I would like to. Okay. Thank you, Jenny. Our next speaker is Katerine Estrock. Catherine. Catherine. Okay. Thank you. Good evening and hello. I'm Catherine Estrock. I'm a resident of Vieira, so District 4, but I'm also the executive director of the Brevard Cultural Alliance, which is Brevard County's designated local arts agency. And I just wanted to come and speak in support of EGAD and wanting to see a beautiful, important local arts and culture area in our county be able to grow and thrive even more. I think that the addition of this hotel and parking structure will make a huge difference in the visitability, if that's a word, of EGAD, where it will allow folks more of a guarantee to know that they can park and get places successfully. It will create more foot traffic for those local arts and culture businesses and hopefully even draw more new arts and culture businesses, local small businesses that are really the heart of Brevard County and what makes us us. We have lots of wonderful cultural areas all throughout the county, and EGAD is certainly, I mean, I love it. It's a fantastic place. I think the development of this will be transformative for that area, and I appreciate your thoughtfulness in discussing all of the possible options and making sure that you do this the right way and the best way for the county. And that's all. Thank you very much. I appreciate you all. Thank you. Appreciate you. Anouk, if I get this right, Jourda, the artist known as Noon. She has many paintings on display at Urban Prime, by the way. Thank you. I'll have to go check them out. Good evening. Thank you for having me. So I come after Catherine. I need to pronounce your name. I want to see how close I got. Anouk Jourda. Okay. It's close. I'm actually French. I started working for Brevard Cultural Alliance two months ago. I have installed art in several of your offices. I recognize a lot of familiar faces. Thank you for having us tonight. I wanted to speak on behalf of a lot of artists that have approached me regarding EGAD. They want to make sure that EGAD thrives and develops the way it was intended to be. They are all regretting the disappearance of the Fusener, and the fact that this museum is gone has created a gap in the flow of traffic and in the art flow of the whole district. So I wanted to emphasize the fact that if you develop it right, it could take EGAD to another level, to the level you intended. But if there is no art development regarding this new project, the hotel, the parking lot, the Fusener will be missed. It is still lacking in the unity and in the development of all the beautiful, unique businesses you have in EGAD. So a lot of artists used to gather there, connect with the artistic community. The art walks were more meaningful when you had that museum. And if the hotel is built, it should be built quickly and restore that flow. And it should also focus a lot on the arts so that EGAD does become a destination for arts and not just, you know, a few art stores trying to get attention. You would drive a lot of tourists thinking, oh, I'm going to a whole district that is intended to be developed, focused on the arts. This weekend, I'm actually going to Miami for Art Basel, which is a world-known destination. And I'm actually attending one of the hotel art shows. It's called Aqua. It's a whole hotel that is turned into a gallery for the art week. Why not dream big and develop that for EGAD in the long term? People will get tired of Miami. It's overflowed with traffic, too many people. But if we develop something that is unique and is a non-district, non-destination, then we are nailing it where we need to. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Sandra Sullivan. Sandra Sullivan. So you're just talking about you don't have money to take care of drainage for these poor people. What, 30 people lost their homes? How many meetings do we come to that we hear this over and over and over and over again? There isn't enough money. We have $2.2 billion deficit in the budget for transportation. That was as much as the entire budget at that time. District 3, I noticed, has an appropriations for $219 million for a new, I presume, toilet to tap, since it's a toilet and water facility. You have a, you have sewage plants that are at, or over capacity. Let's see, Port St. John was at 184% capacity on October 28th. We're dumping raw sewage down deep injection wells against the law. We have a critical crisis on infrastructure. And yet you're going to consider giving $12.1 million to a developer who wants to build a hotel. Now, since when did we do pick winners and losers? You know, let free enterprise work the way it's supposed to. Close all three CRAs that have no debt. That's the fiscally responsible thing to do right now. And then for the rest of the CRAs, negotiate with the CRAs to take on no new debt. But they have almost 13% more income going into their CRA because of the tax increment just this year. No wonder they can pay it off earlier. Because they've already collected over $6 million since 2021. When it was supposed to be a $6.8 million project. Earlier this year, it went up to $8.7 million. Then it went up to $10.5 million. And now, it's $12.1 million. They can't even make up their minds on how much this thing's going to cost. What a joke! You guys are a joke. Where is the fiscal conservatives that we elected to be up here? Right there. I still had a couple minutes. A couple seconds left. I want to add to that. It is a bad look when this developer gives money to your PACs to help you get elected. Oh, bad look. Next speaker, Adam Conley. Good evening, board. Thank you. Adam Conley, city attorney for the city of Melbourne. Generally, just here to answer any questions that you have. The only thing that I'll add to what Ms. Lamb said was, again, to reiterate, the redline draft that was presented to you last Wednesday represents a work product of city staff based upon the consensus direction from city council at our November 25th council meeting to try and negotiate final terms and address the concerns that you had. The only other thing I'll point out is city council does have a scheduled, the final scheduled council meeting for this calendar year next Tuesday, December 9th, and we at least tentatively have an agenda item scheduled for consideration of this interlocal agreement. So we would certainly appreciate any final direction concerns of the things that you have so we can discuss that with council on the 9th or at least consider giving Commissioner Altman and staff authority to finalize negotiations or consider giving staff direction to place this on your December 16th agenda for final approval. Beyond that, I'm happy to answer any questions that you have, but I'll stand on the points that Ms. Lamb made. Thank you. Thank you. Any questions? We have something we'll definitely ask. Thank you. Oh, you have a question. I've got about the floor. Oh, five questions. Well, you have the floor. Take your time. Commissioner Eickson. So we know from earlier speakers that we're looking at about 270 spots, which is 90% of what we are going to build here, which is the original agreement was 90%. The city's goal is to make sure that we have a minimum of 270 dedicated public parking spots. The current design for the garage is closer to 542 approximately. So again, right, the goal was, the city's goal right now is to achieve 300 parking spaces. The reluctance to just put 300 parking, dedication of 300 here is we don't have a final architectural design site plan for the project, and we would hate to run into a situation where all of a sudden we got to 298. And so the goal with, you know, we originally said we will guarantee a minimum of 270, and there was concern there from the council members or from the commissioners. And so we said we are happy to, and city council is agreeable, to increase that number to 270. But you're not willing to say 90% because that was going to be my next question is, is there a chance that this building could get bigger and house more spots? And right now what we're talking about is 270 being 90%. But if the thing gets bigger with more spots, and we've only agreed to 270, well, then that's not 90% anymore. And again, right, the reason that we are asking to change that underlying number from a percentage to a specific number of dedicated spots is because we have this opportunity to do a public-private partnership. The hotel project, as presently proposed and is required within our city code, requires them to have 242 spots dedicated for that use. Those will effectively be the hotel's parking spaces. So that actually brings me to my next question. Will the private partner actually be paying proportionately for the maintenance of this building for the spots that are going to be dedicated? We have numerous elements of maintenance costs that we've been in negotiations with them with on certain items. There is an intention for a proportionate share of capital maintenance costs. One of the elements that we've been negotiating with them, and as was presented at our November 12th council meeting, or 13th, I'm sorry, was the concept that rather than the hotel developer paying an annual lease or license fee for them to cover annual maintenance and operating costs, which we estimated somewhere in the value of about $100,000. Our economic analysis shows that that is about on par with what a license or lease fee would be for 240 spaces in the area. So again, right, we are actively negotiating for those costs, right, and trying to work on the best deal for the CRA and the city in that regard. I mean, obviously, we sure would hate to see residents paying for spots for a hotel. Yeah, and that's certainly not the intention. So the other question that I have regarding finance, and I don't completely understand my question. If there is a staff member who can articulate my question better, please feel free. Um, so my understanding is that we already have $6 million in the kidney to build this thing, but we're looking for more money, to finance more money, and I'm wondering. So the original, the existing interlocal agreement, when it was adopted in 2021, anticipated a certain date threshold, the end of fiscal year 2022, at which point any future funds beyond that had to go towards debt service on, and there's language in the existing interlocal agreement that speaks to, a maximum financing amount of $6.8 million. And so when you include the amount that was in the trust fund as of the end of fiscal year 2022, plus the $6.835 million that was authorized for financing, you get to a total project number of about $8.935 million. That's what's current, that's what's currently allowed under the existing interlocal agreement to be used on this project. With additional construction costs, so on and so forth, that's not feasible for, for us, whether it be the city and the C-R-A on its own building 300 spaces, or whether it's a contribution for public-private partnership to build a larger garage. $8.9 million is not going to do it. And so that's where, with, again, with our understanding in our negotiations on the amount of the contribution for the capital amount and financing costs and everything else, yes, we've got $6 million effectively in the kitty to use. We're asking for a total, effective total project budget of just over $12 million to be able to contribute both for capital contribution together with construction inspection services and other administrative costs that the city will have for the city's contribution to the project. Okay. And lastly, so once we start paying to park here, are we only going to charge whatever it's going to cost to maintain the building? Or will there be extra? The current proposal, and based on the council consensus that I received and direction I got last week, the proposal is for 15 years of free public parking and then an additional 10-year time frame where the underlying fees are matched at what those annual maintenance costs are intended to be. So then where does the money go after 25 years? The extra money, if there is some. That would effectively be at the discretion of that future city council. Thank you. Of course. Yes. Commissioner Goodson. Commissioner Kim, if you don't like the proposal, they can offer to them again for them to go back to their council and see if they would agree to them. I actually have a motion I was going to make, but I wanted to make sure we all had time to ask our questions. All right. I'm just glad you're ready. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Commissioner La Russa? Councilman La Russa. I got a raise tonight then. Are you either demoted you or raised you, depending on your perspective? I'll have to ask my wife. You know, she'll tell me for sure. Chairman, commissioners, thank you for having us this evening. I wanted to stand up here. I know the mayor is here for questions, and we're all very concerned about this. I am the district representative for District 2 from 2004 until 2012. I thought I was done, like you said, but I got pulled back in in 2018, and I'm proud to be here, and I still represent District 2, and I still represent Ogallie. We have worked so hard for this district. In 2004, when I was first elected, the place was half-shuttered, similar to downtown Melbourne. We all know what we went through in those days. What we're asking for is to help us to continue our success. I'll just mention a few of the – we bring about 50,000 people down to downtown Ogallie every year, every year, based on the EGAD Saturday markets, the Eye of the Dragon run, and I can go through the whole list. And just three weeks ago, we had the Rocky Water Brew Fest, and that brought anywhere from $7,000 to $8,000 estimated. Where do we put them? How do we park? So my question is, basically, is that I think that this is an opportunity for us to keep our dollars in our community. It's an opportunity for us to help grow what was once a struggling CRA for many years and is now thriving and can – and as we said, five-year – we'll pull back on the five years on the sunshine. So that's money back in the county's pocket, of course. I'm asking. I'm asking sincerely. We have worked so hard down there. There are people who have put their life savings into everything down there. And if we can't park the people that go down there, intercoastal, nomads, pineapples, squid lips, you know them all. We know them all. I'm asking you for your consideration. And the charging of the parking? I had a conversation with Mr. Altman earlier today, Chairman Altman, sorry. And there are some variables that we can provide for your consideration. So with that said, thank you for your time. I appreciate it. Oh, and construction costs? I'll go back one more time. We have a $12 million project. We're water providers, as you all know. We have a $12 million water project that we have to do based on non-funded mandates coming down to us in 2020. That has turned into $23 million between 2020 and now. Construction, supply chain, everything that goes along with it, everything you're experiencing, we're experiencing as well, too. So thank you for your time. Sorry if I rambled. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for your input. And I'll talk a little bit about our discussion, conversation, questions I have, bringing this to the board. And we might do that right now because that was our last card. So any discussion, comments? Sir, if you want to speak. I know the councilman and I discussed about, as I mentioned last minute, I am not a fan of fee parking, especially when it's unmanned, unstaffed fee parking, where you have to have an app. If you don't have the right app, you've got to find how to pay, and you've got to have the right credit card. And then it doesn't spit out your receipt, and it goes on and on. And I like the way they're doing it at the existing parking garage in the Melbourne downtown redevelopment area. It's where they have parking during special events, and they have staff parking that manages that. And that generates significant revenue. I think I have no problem with that. If you took that same approach here, that works, and I would support that. But I agree with everything the city has said, and I'm willing to go forward and support this. I think this is wonderful. Having lived a part of my life, my family moved to this district. I moved into this district in 1957. I was 18 months old. Well, my family moved me there. But the reason that we have this money, that this district has accumulated, is because it has worked. This is good public policy, good decision, good government, as well as partnering with our private sector. And I'm excited for the future. I support this wholeheartedly, and I hope we can move forward with it. If I may. That's my comment. Yes. I don't have an issue with a hotel and a parking garage. I think that would be a great addition to the O'Galley area. The thing that I'm still struggling with is this money comes out of general fund. And this board just recently got rid of the North Brevard Economic Development Zone because we had a critical need for our firefighters, which, frankly, we still have. We have, we have also a critical need for infrastructure. And this money comes out of our general fund that all of us pay into, and I just have a real problem with we have a room full of people that have lost their homes, and now we're going to give all this money to a developer. It just is. I can't, and I'm not saying that the CRA has not been successful. I'm not saying it's not great, but we have some real needs in our community, and we don't have enough money to go around. And so it's very frustrating sitting here, you know, telling people that we don't have enough money to stop the flooding, but telling a developer we have enough money for their hotel. It's, I don't know how to make that make sense. So, that's, that's where I'm at. Any other discussion? I'll say a couple of things, Mr. Chairman. The money is not going to a developer. It's going to fund a parking garage. And it's typical that in municipal areas that a parking garage would be similar to a road, a bridge, other large infrastructure. So, that is, that is a typical public good. I think this, I think the city has, has worked with us on a couple of things. I think 15 years of, of parking at no charge. The next 10 years, strictly dedicated to maintenance fees. No differential in fees. The original 270 spaces. To your concern about how parking apps work and those sorts of things, I might suggest, and technology is going to make this a lot easier, but when you park at OIA now, you know, your e-pass works. And I'm, I'm sure most of us have e-pass, and that's, that's seamless. That's, that's pretty easy. So, that might be something that you would look at. So, I think what the cities, what we have here in the packet, with the updates that the, that the council considered, I'm, I'm good with today. Okay, we need you to fill out a card. A card, or the other thing, wastewater. You'll need to fill out a card for this item. That's the next. Okay. Yeah. Commissioner Atkinson. Thank you. So, I, too, have lived here almost my whole life, and O'Galley is very cool. I go to every art, anything that they have down there. Parking garage, I think, would be great. My issue is not with the project itself. My issue is how we get there. So, we've got five different people up here, and having been a mediator for 12 years, I would guess that we might just all negotiate this deal differently. So, I appreciate the concessions that Melbourne is considering, and I, I really do appreciate that. But, I would like to make a motion that we allow staff, county staff, to do their job and to negotiate this, this contract, this deal, keeping in mind all of the concerns that we have. I would, Mr. Chair, just real quick, I would say just, I won't make the motion quite yet, but I think that's what we're, we're basically looking for here tonight, is to give direction of staff to go negotiate. I support your motion. I support what you, you've tried to build some consensus. So, that said, I don't know how different your motion is with the motion. My motion, the intent of mine would, would be not to give staff parameters, but to ask staff to do the best that they can for the Brevard residents. And obviously, this is coming back to us anyways, correct? Right, so. Yeah, but I think they're going to need some parameters. Could we, could we. They have, they've heard everything that we've said today and. Could we, could we have just, Mr. Chair, thank you, sir. You know, start with these minimums and let them hammer out the rest of the details and bring back both to their council and to the board. So, again, I think ending the CRA five years early, that's, that's a benefit to the county. There's, there's no doubt. We, we appreciate that. Uh, 270 spaces dedicated to the public. I think that maintains the original intent. Uh, 15 years of, uh, no charge. 10 years, uh, after that, just strictly for the maintenance. Uh, no differential in fees. I would, I would, I would say, how about that as the minimum starting point with the city? Let the county and the city hammer out those details and, and bring it back to the board. And, uh, maybe you'll consider the OIA, um, e-pass, uh, parking scenario. Is there a second to the motion? I have a question. Yes. Um, what about the, the extra money that they're asking for? It's about $6 million. Um, I, I think, though, if we, if we look at when the CRA ends five years early, um, I think we ought to look at that. Certainly, I think we could have a discussion about that. But, you know, when you're talking about something in 2033, it's, it's hard. I don't think this board can bind the hands of another. That's, um, that, that's always a rule. But I estimate, uh, today that would probably, in today's dollars, be worth $1.8 million. I think in 2033 time, that's probably closer to $2.5 million. So, it's, it's not nothing. I, I hear you on the $6 million, but, um, I think, I think the, the city's working with us. And I, I think asking staff to go get more information and bring it back to us is important so that we totally understand that part of it. And if what you're making is a friendly amendment and those are minimums, then I would accept that. This is, I'll, I'll do that as a motion that we start with those minimums that, that I outlined for staff to negotiate with the city and bring back to us as a final product. That'd be my question. Second by Commissioner Atkinson. Now, debate on the motion. Is there any debate on the motion? I, I want to say a few things. One is I, I'm very supportive of the CRA and what's happening there. I'm against support, shortening the CRA, even though the city's agreed to it. I, I think it's, you know, if we're going to, but I will vote for this motion, that said. And I'm against the fees. But I'm going to vote for this. You don't always get what you want. But this is an important project. We, we need to move forward. We can debate that again when it comes to us, the final product, right? Yeah, right. We can. Yes, sir. And I, do we have another card? We just, we just got that. Okay. Probably before we, but we need to hear, there's a card. Hilrand? Is it the last name? Hilrand? How do you say your first name? Call into Amanda. Amanda. Amanda. Okay. Sorry. Terrible handwriting. Well, it's probably the person reading as well. So I was uninformed about this project until I came in tonight. But from what I've heard, I'm not very happy. We're talking about a project that originally started off at $6 million. Now, we have doubled that amount. And I, from what I heard, it was originally from 2022. Now, there hasn't been that much to overall increase a project by twice as much, in my opinion. Another thing, our governor, whoever it was, stated that they were going to go ahead and have 90% of those spaces be allocated for people here in Brevard. However, that was 200, almost 300 spaces. He then stated that they would like to change that number from the original 90% to an actual frame of 297. And the rest of those spots would be for the hotel. Now, he also stated that the hotel was going to be paying some kind of money. So if the hotel is using these spaces and charging for these spaces, then they should be paying for a portion of this overall project. If the project has doubled in the amount of time frame, which is a couple of years, that's kind of astronomically insane, in my opinion. Now, as a Brevard resident, I know this area. And yes, we do need parking. But to have the overall parking be taxed against us, we already have so many spaces. Even our beaches now are paid to park, every single one of them. We do not need to pay $12 million for a parking space that is only going to be allocated maybe half of those parking spaces to us. Then after a portion of the time, those profits are going to be used for who knows what in 2023, I'm sorry, 33 or whatever he stated. However, those funds should be put back into our community. If we are allocating these funds for this project, that overall proceeds need to come back to us. Because why are we spending the money? You may see it's for tourism or to boost up the overall economy. I say that's bunk. There is no reason for us to be paying double the amount of money for a project that an overall real estate developer is also putting funds into and then allocating that public parking spaces to be used by a developer so that they can charge us more money in less than 10 years or whatever you're going to change the number to. I personally don't think that we should be paying the $12 million. If you are going to pay something to it, it should be half of the price. And if the overall real estate developer is going to be allocating those spaces, they should be ahead and paying for that. And if the original spaces was 90% for us to put in these taxpayer money, then it should stay at 90%. It should not be allocated to a smaller amount so they can make it even larger. And we should have overall say in the funds that are going in here, what it's being poured to, what the overall company that is a private real estate developer is adding in. Because the numbers to me aren't adding up. How do we double in amount of a couple of years? I know that there's tariffs and there's taxes and everything else, but that just doesn't make any sense. And I would like to see that overall paperwork before you guys vote on anything. Thank you. So we will get that information at our final vote. We're not voting to approve anything. We're voting just to proceed forward. So we'll appreciate your input there. And if the city was here, we can get those numbers. Okay. Is there any discussion, debate? Seeing none. All those in favor of the motion signified by saying yay? Aye. Aye. Against? Nay. Nay. Okay. So that we have one negative vote from District 1. Mr. Chair, can we take a five-minute break? Yes, I think it's a good idea. Thank you, sir. That'd be good. Thanks. And Danielle, I need to chat. Sorry. So we got, so the next item on the agenda is J2, a written request for public meeting regarding draft permit, number so-and-so, submitted by Blue Origin LLC to the Florida Department of Environmental Protection for the discharge of .49 million gallons of water per day. The process and non-process industrial wastewater to the Indian River Lagoon. I'd like to read a statement because we've gotten, offices have gotten a lot of calls just so people can fully understand the nature of this agenda item. The Bovard County Board of Commissioners has been asked to submit a request to the Florida Department of Environmental Protection for a public meeting on this matter. Please be advised that the county has no jurisdiction over the final permitting decision, none, which rests exclusively with the Florida Department of Environmental Protection. We can give feedback. The first step is we're going to vote whether we want to ask for a public hearing so many of the people here tonight can also appeal or be informed or participate in a public hearing. Although the Florida Department of Environmental Protection is not obligated to hold a public meeting, the Board of County Commissioners may make a formal request within the 30-day notice period. This is the purpose of tonight's agenda item. Should the FDEP grant a public meeting, it would allow all interested parties an opportunity to express their concerns and obtain additional information. I don't think the public hearing will hurt and I might add we probably ought to ask, if this is what we ought to ask our legislative delegation members to reach out to the Florida Department of Environmental Protection too because there's a lot of interest in the Senate. Okay. That said, we have a lot of cards, so when you speak, we want you to know where we are. First speaker, Terry White. Good to see you, Terry. Good to have you here. He's a space shuttle legend. Thank you for that. Thank you for your service. Yeah. I live on North Merritt Island off of East Crisofulli Road on Joseph Court. I've been a Merritt Island resident since 1965 and a North Merritt Island resident since 1979. The recent storm dropped 20 inches of rain on our house overnight and five more inches the next morning. And now I'll go into a little bit of the history about the pump out there that they're talking about. They want the permit. That was originally by, operated by Sullivan Groves. Many of you are familiar with it. And back when they had orange groves on the Space Center. All of the orange groves on the Space Center have been gone for years. Okay. But when we had a flooding issue several years ago, I questioned the issue of these pumps pushing water into Pine Island Canal. I was told by Deputy County Manager Denninghoff at the time that they were not operational. But being a badged employee, I could go on to Kennedy Space Center and I went out and verified that the pumps were operational. And because as well as being an employee, I was one of the people that caught the nuisance wild hogs on the Space Center and had them removed. So I had access to all the wooded areas out there. Okay. At the next meeting, Denninghoff admitted, yes, the pumps are operational. But if you don't know it, almost all of the storm water on North Merritt Island goes out through Pine Island Canal or the Judson Canal to the south. All water east of State Road 3 and north of Hall Road are affected. There is also culverts under State Road 3 that draw water from the west side of State Road 3 under the road. And they also pump into or flow into Judson. So almost all of North Merritt Island is affected by going out through the Pine Island Canal. Okay. Recent storm waters were flowing north, verified at East Crystal, Philly, and Judson Canal when the county pumps at Pine Island were on. When the pumps at Hall Road were on, you could see the water flowing south. You could just stand there and watch the water moving. Okay. Upon checking, well, the water stopped flowing north. Upon checking, I found out that the pumps on Kennedy Space Center were pushing a large volume of water into the Pine Island Canal, much more water than the county pumps could handle. Our water level continued to rise even after all the rains had stopped. And East Crystal, Philly, stayed underwater for two weeks after all the rain in that. It's even with the county operating the pumps around the clock 24-7. We are being told that Blue Origin needs to pump 490,000 gallons of wastewater from their tank verification testing. Well, as being an orbiter processing chief and working on flight hardware for 33 years, I was involved with all kinds of testing on our space shuttle orbiters and that, and I can't see a system requiring that much water. 490,000 gallons, okay? And thanks. I just got the notice, too, about the Florida Department of Environmental Protection and that. But, okay. One last comment I'll get out of here is the existing pump system that the county has in place at Pine Island struggles to handle the water when we have a storm like this, and no way can we take another 15 million gallons a month being fed into those pumps. They just won't handle it. Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker, and then after, Gordon England would be our next speaker after Julio. Good evening. My name is Julio Torres. Thank you for your time. I'm here to oppose the additional renewal of the permit to add 50,000 gallons a day of industrial wastewater by Blue Origin. When I heard about this, it felt like a Twilight Zone episode. It was very science fiction, but it has been occurring, I believe, for about five years. I have been living in Brevard County for 25 years. When I drive over the El Galley Causeway, I love looking at the dolphins breach the water, the ospreys dive for fish, the pelicans sit on the surface with a full belly. That wastewater should really be called industrial chemicals. It first goes into a retention pond. That retention pond will eventually affect the local drinking water, which is full of Forever Chemicals. Brevard County has been battling the Forever Chemicals, PFAS, for many, many years. So once it's in the retention pond, it will affect the local drinking water. And if Brevard County is investing millions to keep our Indian River clean, this idea will fight that investment. It would not make any sense. So thank you for your time. And please encourage the FDEP to not renew this permit. Thank you. Thank you. Gordon England. Okay. Thank you, Gordon. Michael Majek. Good evening, Honorable Chair, Commission. I'm Michael Majek. I'm a member of the Indian River Lagoon Roundtable, and I'm also on Titusville's Environmental Commission, and I've been there for about 13 years now, and I've been a resident here for over 35. I came here to work in the Space Center, originally working in NASA life sciences when that was still a thing, eventually moving on, as many of us do. I want to talk to you about water, and I know, I'll just say it out front, I would like for you to ask them to deny the permit. That's right off the bat. But here's a couple of simple facts. The River Management District recently posted that by 2040, we're going to be 96 million gallons a day short. Here's a half a day right here. That's almost 5%. I mean, it's a significant chunk of what we need. And I have to ask, you know, what's it for? And the answer that we've gotten is that it has to do with wash water, washing rockets, cleaning them up so they can be reused. Well, if I want to go wash my vehicle, the place that washes it has to filter the water and clean it and reuse it. They don't get to simply dump it into the local waterway. If I have a boat in a marina and I want to wash it, I can't do it in the water. I have to manage the wash water and the cleanup. If I have an aircraft hanger, an aircraft that I want to wash, same thing. It's regulated. Why does a vehicle that goes up vertically operate any differently than one that goes horizontally, whether on water or on a train or a plane or a car? This is our water. This is our environment that we're talking about saving. I talked to you last January about how we need a spaceport authority like we have a port authority for the cruise line. This is a whole new industry. It's untaxed. It's unregulated. It's unmanaged. As we just saw, Blue Origin just bypassed Space Florida. They bypassed NASA. They just simply went right to Florida DEP for a permit. So where are you? You represent us. This is our water. It's our environment. And nobody is looking at creating a cohesive answer for how to grow this place forward. If you don't stand up for a spaceport authority, I don't know who will. This is just the beginning. Thank you. Sandra Sullivan. And after that, Amanda Holland. Sandra Sullivan. I have Waves Action Facebook group. So the first thing I want to say is we're renewing a permit, and they have a consent order and fines for violating, for not taking samples, for exceeding exceedances on the samples. So I want to point out when you say, oh, we can't do anything. This is Florida DEP's decision. I'm going to say you can do something. Because under your Sorrel Ordinance 2016-15, it says to ensure compliance with the Indian River Lagoon Act, which is state, which complies with the NEP, which is federal, and to reduce, eliminate, where possible, industrial and domestic wastewater discharges to the Indian River Lagoon. And the second one is to ensure compliance with the Indian River Lagoon Act, Chapter 90-262, also known as the Indian River Lagoon Act, reduce or eliminate industrial discharges to the Indian River Lagoon. You have now, you can take action on this. Because you can go talk to your state legislators. You can go talk to your federal congressmen. And you can say, we're bad by this. Talking half a million gallons a day is not just them. That's in exceedances. It's also SpaceX is in violation, has consent orders for violating and having exceedances. And then they have the commerce area. And they have an environmental report with that. And they're saying stormwater management and for planning, performing dewatering, or other intrusive work may affect contaminated media. They're talking PFAS, forever chemical. They say in here, additionally, that designing stormwater management features may require evaluating the potential for increased contaminant loading into the lagoonal systems. Do you know that under the CCMP, which is the lagoon plan for the NEP, approved by the EPA, which is over DEP, that we are required in our lagoon plan to have pollution, which we don't. Even though, you know, all this PFAS that's been discharged at the Cape and Patrick is laden, we have all this PFAS and it binds to the organic material. I want to just say this. Here is what you can do. You can negotiate with Space Florida to, one, pay for, under ad ad alarm tax, a stormwater impact fee. Because we have huge flooding, right? We've had meetings. I've been at your meetings with the North Merritt Island residents. And the incorporation study said $5 to $10 million a year. And then, secondly, require them to build their own industrial wastewater treatment plant. It is not on the people of Brevard County to pay for spaces infrastructure. And he stood here in this room and said he wanted to use other people's money, the taxpayers' money. And that's unacceptable. Amanda Holland. My name is Amanda Holland. I've lived in this county now for 22 years. When I first originally moved here, I was visiting my family also here in this area since probably the early 90s. I have watched the lagoon over that time period slowly decline. Our overall fishing industries and everything has declined during that time period. Starting in about 2014, 2015, we started actively, myself included, going around and getting signatures to increase our taxes here for that half cent, which was completed in 2016. For almost the last 10 years, because it does end in 2026, we have raised almost $600 million. Over 400 projects have been initiated in this county to save our lagoon. We have animals dying left and right. And these pollutions that are going into our water every single day, there is a reason why we have seen an increase in our blooms of our algae and our overall animals dying. It is because of these PFAS, because of all of the nitrogen and everything else that is being funneled into our lagoon. We need to take back our area and fix this. Put in restrictions against all of the people who are using the CAPE, not just Blue Origin, but also SpaceX and the rest of them. Because it's not just one, it will be the rest. Once you let one person in, the whole entire gates open. And we have spent millions of dollars to fix this, 10 years almost, in order to make our coastal system, 40% of the east coast of Florida, is the lagoon. And that is where majority of our tourism has came for years, not to mention all of us here who enjoy the lagoon, who enjoy going out on our boats and our crafts. We can't even eat the fish out of our water anymore because of this. And those PFAS will never disappear. This is a problem that they have created that they need to fix, not us. And we need to stop them from any kind of permits because, again, they did not go to the proper overall channels. Instead, they bypassed all of us and went to the DEP. It is up to Brevard County to put their foot down because, just like she said, we do have an act in this area that prevents them from polluting in our waters. And instead, we are turning a blind eye and allowing them to pollute. Because if I remember properly, this has been going on for six months or longer now at this point. And it needs to stop. Again, we have seen larger algae blooms throughout the entire summer. And it will only get worse. There will be massive die-offs. And when that happens, there will be no coming back for our overall lagoon. And we have dredged 1.3 million overall phosphates and things out of our river to improve that. And when one fell swoop, we are erasing all of that hard work, all of that money that we have poured into this county, into this lagoon. And I thank you very much. Have a good one. Thank you, Elizabeth. This is Elizabeth Michaelman. Atlee? Bailey? Yeah, that's an I. Okay, Bailey. The next speaker. Hi. How are you? I'm Liz Michaelman. I live on Mary Island. I stopped coming to meetings because I didn't like the blank looks I'd always get. Just like, am I speaking a different language? I'm here today. I had a great speech, but I'm going to cut to the chase. Are we here today because we're looking for you to get on our side so we can have a public meeting to discuss this further? If you are not the powers that be, we need to speak to those powers. Now, the thing that's really interesting, on your agenda today, on the calendar, you have three documents that were attached. Are you aware that one of those documents is from 2022? And we're talking about a renewal. Did you know that when this was first approved, it was for 3,000 gallons? There's a big difference between 3,000 and 500,000. So how is this a renewal? So there are so many questions, and everybody here is really concerned, as should we all. Because I'm not voting for a half cent again. Not doing that. No way. You are ruining the value of my home. You are ruining my quality of life. And I wish that, just tell us the fact, will you support us having a public meeting, and will we have that public meeting? That's what I really want to know. So you're going to hear that answer real soon, as soon as we get through all these cards. But that's the essence of what we're doing. Right. And you know what? I saw it, I read it, and I am concerned. And all these people, they can bring up the documents, and they can give you the raw facts. How much you guys have given Blue Origin? How much have you given it since 2015? $66 million. Come on, this is Jeff Bezos. I am sick and tired of the billionaires playing the power game, and we are insignificant. Throw us aside, because they don't care. They get rid of us. They'll go someplace else. So I'm fighting for my home, as should all of you. And don't look away. This is the truth. If this is not hyperbole, do your research. I sure do. I believe in fact-checking. Do you? Thank you. What we're talking about tonight is bigger than any single permit, any single company, or any single project. We're talking about the future of Brevard County, the place we live, the place we love, and the place we invested years of our tax dollars into trying to save the lagoon. And that's why we cannot accept being told that these discharges are just as trickle, or that it's not that much. Because this isn't just about one permit. This is one piece of a very large, very connected system. When you stack all these permits on top of each other, 10 years down the road, we're not talking about a trickle. We're talking about billions of gallons of stormwater runoff from these type of permits alone. We've watched cities in Brevard make the same mistake, build first, worry about infrastructure later, and now we're paying for it, literally. They're having to rebuild systems that should have been designed differently in the first place. If industry wants a stable future, the financially smart move is to deal with the stormwater responsibly now, not after everything breaks. But the biggest problem, too, is that we do not have an oversight committee. The community has asked for this for years, and we still don't have a single body looking at the overall long-term impacts of the spaceport. Only piecemeal approvals, one project at a time, as if each facility dumps into its own separate universe. Where is the leadership in Brevard's taxpayers, the same taxpayers who've paid to save the lagoon because we care enough to fix what's broken? There is a pathway forward. There absolutely is. Industry and community can coexist and thrive if the spaceport moves out of the 1950s playbook and into the modern age of stormwater management. They could be building reservoirs. They could be filtering and reusing water. They have thousands of acres in the wildlife refuge to create regional retention systems. They are brilliant engineers. So why are they being instructed to dump into the lagoon instead of being challenged to innovate? And mitigation? There aren't enough credits in the entire Indian River Lagoon Basin to cover all of the expansion, but those credits could be used creatively. Repairing dykes, installing wave devices, reopening roads in the refuge that have been closed for 15 years. Strengthening the refuge, restoring habitat here, not sending our scrub jays over to Fort Myers, which they are doing. Supporting Brevard's environmentally endangered lands program. Because what happens at the space center impacts us here in Brevard County, and mitigation should benefit us here in Brevard County. I'm not asking the industry to stop. I'm asking it to lead, to be good neighbors, to be responsible stewards of this land we share, to think bigger, plan smarter, and build a spaceport worthy of the future, not trapped in the past. Thank you. Sarah Hodge? Okay, well, thank you. Okay, thank you, Sarah. Sarah Williams? And then after Sarah would be Laura Lee Thompson? Also in opposition to giving any kind of further permitting to Blue Origin, you said you're going to be encouraging a meeting with the FDEP? What we have the authority to do here is to request a public hearing so the voices of the people of Brevard can be heard. With the FDEP or Blue Origin? The FDEP. Okay. Yeah, so I'm just kind of in support of that. I didn't know if any of you guys are aware that there is additional discharge in this permit on top of what's already being obviously polluting the lagoon that has very little support by Brevard residents, so definitely encourage that. Thank you. Thank you. Laura Lee Thompson? I'm Laura Lee Thompson from MIMS, and I don't know how I could say anything any better than what Stel just said. So I'll just tell you, I mean, I'm 72 years old. I grew up here, been here my whole life, played in the river, fished in the river my whole life. I've watched it go downhill actually my entire life, and part of that is because of the impacts from the Space Center from the 1960s. And unfortunately, they are still using the same 1960s technology when they're talking about how to manage their stormwater out there. There's a misconception that a healthy estuary can handle big surges of freshwater, but that's not true. It changes the salinity regime. Too much freshwater can cause egg-hatching failure for important commercial and recreational harvested fish. It can cause seagrass to not thrive. It can even cause seagrass to not even grow. And like Stel said, this is just the beginning. There's way more companies that want to come here. They're all going to end up with these half-million-gallons-per-day permits. And when that happens, we're going to be looking at not millions of gallons per day, we're going to be looking at possibly billions of gallons a day of freshwater going into a system that in the Banana River has a two-and-a-half-year residency time, and in the Indian River has a year-and-a-half residency time. So all that freshwater is going to be going into the lagoon, and it's trapped by the causeways, and it has nowhere to go. So I know that the purpose of the meeting tonight is to request, ask you guys, beg you guys, please, please send a letter to DEP and request a public hearing because we were caught by surprise. We're in the dark. The public has a right to be able to confront the people that are asking for this permit and ask them questions and hear why they feel like they need to discharge half a million gallons of freshwater a day into a system that absolutely cannot, an imperiled water body that cannot handle it. So please write that letter and put a strong emphasis on requesting a public meeting. Thank you. Thank you. Andrew Stein and then Jen Parrish. Good evening. Thank you for allowing me to speak. I know yous have a difficult job. My name is Andrew Stein. I live in southwest Palm Bay. I think yous have to recognize that this is a public property issue. The lagoon is public property. We are founded on a country of property from John Locke. John Locke specifically said public property is a resource held in the common good by society. This is who owns that. You don't own it, and neither does Blue Origin. And I disagree with you when you tell me that we can't do anything because I read Trump versus CASA, C-A-S-A. I behest the county attorney to file an injunction against Blue Origin if you all believe that this should stop because this is an irreparable harm, as you heard here today. And this county attorney could file that injunction not only against the state of Florida Environmental Protection Agency, but also against the DEA. Why is it different in Trump versus CASA? It's a specific person. It's Blue Origin. It's not a universal injunction. If he doesn't want to file it, I'll file the injunction. I filed hundreds of them in my life. I've tried over 750 cases in my life. I'm retired right now, but I'll file it for the people of this county because my daughter and I fished there about two or three times a week. We enjoy the lagoon not only to see the wildlife and not only to catch fish, which we don't eat, but because of the recreational purpose that it provides us. I understand that Blue Origin wants to go ahead and dump their chemicals in there, but that's against a public purpose. It's against the people of this county. It's against the people of the state of Florida, and it's against the United States. It is not only against us. I believe it's criminal. And if you're going to engage in criminal activity, then just tell us now, and we could all just leave, and we could start a whole different petition because, quite honestly, the county attorney could file an injunction. Let him read Trump versus CASA. I've read it probably three times, and that's what I'm here for because, look, we're past our prime, but our grandchildren and the people who come after us deserve a right to use that public property. So not only should we have a hearing, but I would ask you all to have the county attorney, who we're all paying for, his salary to get the injunction started today. If you don't want to do it, if you don't want to do it, then I'll go ahead and file the injunction myself. My name is Andrew D. Stein, Esquire. Thank you very much. Well, let's have our county attorney address that comment. I'm not an attorney, but I would assume you would have to exhaust your administrative remedies before you've got a ruling, and to exhaust those remedies would probably begin with this public hearing. That's correct. That's correct. I have a question about that. Yeah. So that addresses this discharge, but what about the discharges that have been happening for God only knows how long? What about them? So what about all those discharges? Can we do anything about those or stopping any future discharges of the freshwater into our lagoon? Is there anything we could do to stop this from happening? Well, even when it's clean, but when it's cleaned, some of it's industrials, some of it's... You can't answer that in generalities. We'd have to talk about specific ones, and in a lot of areas, the state has preemptions, so... I guess what I'm asking is, what is our authority here? Well, I think, let's have you an opportunity to get that information, maybe put your question in writing, and give the attorney time to research that. But we still have cards. So, but the bottom line is, this is a part of the process to do that. This is an administrative hearing that we hope we can get, and I think any court, having been around a lot of these things, would want to be sure that we've exhausted all administrative remedies prior to going to court. This is part of that. So, Jen Parrish, and then Sharon McDonald. Good evening. My name is Jennifer Parrish. I'm a resident of Titusville, and I'm a small business owner. So, before listening to your explanation of what this actual agenda item, and listening to some of the folks in the audience tonight, I'm going to change what I want to say today, because after listening to your negotiation skills of picking a $12 million parking garage over saving people's homes, I'm reluctant to know what your written request is going to look like to battle against the federal government, because what I saw here tonight lacked the leadership that we need to stand up against the big boys. So, I want to know, what is your strategic plan? What it, we've heard some fantastic ideas and some really devastating facts, but you all, some of you, have been sitting on this dais for decades, and we are the collateral damage of this. This surtax is the collateral damage of failed leadership. We are tired. As business owners, why do, why would I want to destroy something? I want to keep, it just blows my mind that I would allow a big company to dump water into something where my employees live, thrive, and enjoy their lives. To not have a strategic plan is just mind-blowing. And to see that this is listed as new business, when it's a renewal, just the deception of facts of how you present it to us is so unfortunate, it just, it leaves me almost speechless. So, I'm asking you tonight, have an open forum before you request the meeting to actually have direction from some of the subject matter experts that came up here with their time and took the time out of their research, and they've even worked in the industry, or they live in the muck that you make them deal with every day because of your failed decisions year after year. And the next time you guys stand in front of a committee or ask a voter for your vote, think about what that written request is going to be, because it's not stopping. They're just getting started. And it's not fair that the simple solution is to throw more money at the situation when you're not doing anything to fix it. So, let me get this straight. They are brilliant enough to send rocket after rocket up into the sky, but they can't figure out a better solution because they're too cheap. That's exactly right. It's cheaper to just dump it and let us continuously pay for it over and over again. So, I'm asking you tonight, rather than push forward, make a motion to start the conversation with the folks that have to deal with it or pay for it for a strategic plan. Thank you. Sharon, the last speaker, Sharon McDonald. Hello. I'm Sharon McDonald. I just, I was very upset hearing about the Blue Origin and what's happening with the lagoon. I live directly on that waterway. When I bought about four and a half years ago, the water clarity was way different. I've got pictures where you could see the grain of sand. You could see the blades on the grass growing underneath. I could see sheephead, fish out the yin-yang. We had dolphins gobbling them up all the time. Vast amounts of dolphins. I saw baby dolphins. What I've realized is that the waste that's been going in all this time, I thought was a leak or a sewage thing, but now I realize that this wastewater has been going on for the past four years. They've already had multiple violations. They've changed the pH in the water. I can tell you now, every time I go out, you can't even see in the water. It is a brown, murky, green muck. There's no more grass. I have yet to have seen a fish in about a year. When it was plentiful, you could see that it was thriving, that changes were being made or good with the lagoon. Now it is just heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking to see the birds looking for fish to eat. We had ospreys that had babies, came every year, dived down, got all that they needed. Nothing now, nothing. I don't want my kids in the water. I don't want my dogs swimming in the water. When we have algae blooms, I don't even want to sit on my back porch. It's devastating when you've invested in a home on the water for millions, and I'll probably never get that back if you guys continue to let them pollute our waters. I want to fight this. I want people to care. It is supposed to be a federally protected sanctuary. It's the only one that exists in the state of Florida. It's where they go to have their babies. You're stripping that. You're taking it away if you don't stand up for the lagoon. The lagoon doesn't flush. It is a stagnant body of water, and when they put the wastewater in it, it has nowhere to go. It's just going to kill everything that's underneath it. So I just hope that each and every one of you, whether you live on the water or not, that you just care. You care about the people that live there on Marin Island. You care about the water. You care about your children. I don't want anybody getting sick. I mean, they've already talked about if you have a compromised immune system, you shouldn't be in it. So I just hope you guys care enough to take this to the EPA, make it happen. They have ways to treat all the water or find ways to do it and not dump it in the lagoon. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, that is our final card. Is there a discussion or a motion? Mr. Chair. Yes. Thank you. I have two things that we might add as an amendment to this item, if you would. One, I think we should send copies of our request to the legislative delegation. So I think they should have that sent to them directly so they can see that. I also think if we're going to request them to do a public meeting, I think we should probably remove the barriers necessary for them to do that as much as possible. And to that end, I would suggest that we maybe even take it upon ourselves to contact Eastern Florida to see if the meeting could be hosted at something like the Simpkins Center in Coco. I think that's closest large venue to Merritt Island. So expecting them to say, okay, we're going to have a public meeting, and then for them to find the venue, I think that's just an extra step. So maybe if we do that on their behalf, it would go a long way to them considering it. Okay. Those would be my two suggestions. And that's on the Cocoa BCC campus? Yes, sir. Right. Okay. There was a motion. Is there a second? I have a second. A second by Commissioner Atkinson. A question by Commissioner DeLady. I guess I want to re-ask this question, just because we have all these people in the room. What exactly is our authority here? And with the Indian River Lagoon Act, does that give us any added authorities? Our authority right now with regard to the permit is to request a public meeting and submit comments within 30 days of the notice of publication. That's our authority. Even with the Indian River Lagoon Act? Yes. And so since it's a protected national estuary, how have they been allowed to do this for so long? And are you telling me that we don't have any authority to do anything about it? I'm telling you that right now, our authority and what's before the board is to request a public meeting and submit comments within 30 days of the notice of publication. And we're on the clock. And we have to do that. I understand what you're saying. Anything else is bigger picture that we have to look at. Excuse me. What I'm saying is, I understand what you're saying, but I'm asking in general, I'm sorry, this is personal. We have people in this room right now that are cancer survivors. That's me. Cancer survivors from the chemicals that are in our community. So this is personal. And I don't appreciate being spoken over. I don't think anybody's speaking. He did speak over me. I'm the chair. He did speak over me. Well, I'm speaking over your nurse chair. I think we need to have decorum and courtesy. And I heard that. He's trying to answer your question. He's not. I might make another point. We are not successful in achieving our ends by wasting our time. We have a process. The federal government has a process. And the process we are in right now, and I think that was the answer to your question, is the DEP has a public hearing. I think you're going to see this board. Well, there's a motion. And I think you're going to see overwhelmingly we're going to ask them to have this public hearing. They could deny our request. But this is what we need to do now. And I think we'd be misleading the public if we were to say there was something else that we could do. What we have now is the ability to ask for it. I do have a question related to that, Commissioner Feltner and the staff. Are we asking staff to comment in the public hearing? Because I think they would need our approval to do so. With the meeting that we're requesting of DEP. Right. Of course, they would have to agree to a public hearing before we ask staff to comment. So take one step at a time. I think so. And that's why I wanted to send copies to the legislative delegation and suggest the center. I'll say something real quick just since I have the opportunity. The governor, too. Okay. I would amend that to send to the governor's office. Okay. Very good. So but I think since the time frame here that we have to do this by December 18th, I think it is, you still have legislative session ahead of you. Okay. So take this step. And if they deny it, then potentially petition the legislature during session. I think that would be the pragmatic way to go forward with this issue. Well, session is after this. So session is January, February. So I think if, I know you didn't do a card on this specifically, but I think if DEP says back to us, no, we're not going to do this. I think that's a lot easier also after sending our letter, right, to the delegation to petition them to say, hey, look, this is where we are. This is what DEP's response is. We have a potential legislative fix or we'd like to see this or we'd like you to take that action. I think you just take those steps would be the proper way to do it. So tonight, let's send the letter and suggest the meeting and the venue and send copies to the delegation and Commissioner Goodson's friendly amendment to the governor. What exactly is this letter going to say? It's requesting the public hearing. I think that's what we're looking for. Could I make an amendment or another motion after this motion that we send some kind of statement from this body, how we feel as a county commission? I'll tell you what I think we ought to do. Let's do the letter, okay, and send that off. And then in, that's my suggestion, in the next commission meeting, you could have on the agenda a similar letter because I think we have one tonight that we're going to think about on board report, right, for, to send. A letter. Right, a letter. So I think that would give you time to draft a letter for the rest of the board to see it and then we could consider that at the next commission meeting. I think it's, well, I don't, I don't, I don't think, no, I don't, I don't have anything in front of us. I mean, in fairness, I just, Jim, I see you waving your hand over there. Thanks, Mr. Chair. Virginia, because there's a little bit of a format in the letter, so Virginia can highlight some of the subjects we put in the letter. Okay, that'd be great. The state requirements, in order to request the public meeting, you have to provide a statement of the facts that the department should consider in making a decision about whether to hold that meeting and identify rules or statutes that require reversal or modification of the department's action or proposed action. So the, the, in your packet were the comments that were submitted in 2002 to Blue Origin when they submitted. So we would, I think at a minimum, we would need to identify sort of those same facts of why DEP should hold a public meeting. Can you stop me if I'm wrong, Virginia? And then also in the package is a letter from 20, it's 2022, and we asked for a similar public hearing for, I think, was this SpaceX? Yes, SpaceX. And it talks about the impact of the lagoon, so we'd have similar, different situations, similar formats, similar language into it, so. I'll tell you what, Mr. Chair? Yes, sir? I would split something here with Commissioner Delaney. I don't see any reason why we couldn't send the public comments from this meeting. And just say, here are the, here are the comments that we've received at our meeting, along, along with it. And they've already done that on the record. I think it'd take the staff, it'd take a little time to type it up, but I think we could, we could probably get that done. Yeah, I didn't want to steal thunder from the clerk, but I, I was going to ask. Okay. That's a great idea. Yeah. Is that, would that be, would you be amenable to that? Sure. Okay. I'll also write something up, too, and, you know, we could even assemble. You can still continue to add things. I mean, for sure. We just, we got a clock here, and we want to make sure that we, we're timely. Right. So, I think, is that, so, should I restate that, sir? I just, no, I think we got it. I think Jim is waving us down. All right. I got to learn how to use the buttons. I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I'm sorry for now. I just suggest you, as commissioners, can also send individual requests on your own, too. And anyone in the audience, also, everyone here can submit written comments and their directions on doing that in the notice that's attached to the agenda item for tonight's meeting. So, anyone in this can also send individual written comments to DEP. You just have to do it before December 8th. The address is available online? In the agenda packet for this item, it's the first attachment. I think it's the first attachment. Yes. The first attachment to this item is a published notice, and it has the address, the place you send it to, and it tells you about the format you have to put it in, because there's certain, there's certain information you have to provide to them when you make your comment. But you can do that individually. Everyone in this room can do that. Okay, great. That's good input. Okay. Any other discussion on the motion? Oh, I'm not on the motion. I have questions. Okay. We're questioning. I have questions. I have questions. Can I ask you a quick word people are looking at? The meeting today under J2, first and second, or third piece of paperwork, it has all the instructions that anybody needs to recommend sharing, but it's not out there. Can we make it more out there, more transparent? People are looking at their paperwork. Well, I appreciate you bringing up the website, because that is extremely transparent, and anyone can go to the website and see that. Okay, any other discussion? Is there any way that we could, is there any way that we could maybe put that information on a Facebook post? That would make it really accessible for people, and they wouldn't have to go through the website? If the board gives us direction, then we can do that. I, okay, I'll tell you what, we'll include in the amendment that we take the notice that's right here on the other side, and we're just going to put that on the county's Facebook page. Just that notice, as it is here. Yeah, I mean, we'll get with Don to figure out how to format it properly. All right, we'll include that in my amendment, or my motion. Okay, that's included in the motion. Okay. Yes. Commissioner Goodson. Thank you. The only other way, I guess, they could get rid of this stuff is deep well injection, correct? Correct? Or treatment and recycling. Okay, recycling. I'm going to ask the audience. We've given, gosh, an hour of public input. We're now deliberating here, but not to shout out from that. It disrupts what we're trying, our communication, what we're trying to do. Thank you, Chair. Appreciate that. Okay. Okay. Either reuse or deep well injection, correct? All right. Probably deep well injections are too expensive. Is that their thoughts, or would that be their thoughts? Being the richest man in the world, that would be his thoughts, right? It's expensive. Okay. Well, Cocoa Beach does it. Port does it, you know? Brevard County does it. Yeah, it's okay. So, now, the other issue I would just like to know, not that I would agree with this extension of this permit. I don't like it, because we're being taxed to clean it up, and they're polluting it. So, therefore, I'm against all this. My question to you is this. How often do you, Brevard County, check your outflow on Pine Island Road as far as improprieties or sewage? How often do you check that? We don't do regular testing. We test. We look at the volumes, right? We watch the volumes because of the flooding issue, but we don't test the water quality on a regular basis. Okay. Do they test the water quality? They test the water quality at the end of the pipe. The outflow pipe into the lake. Outflow pipe into the stormwater. What if it's bad? They cut it off? And what do they, they put that on pizza or something or what? No, they submit a report to DEP stating what the values were. But they still pump it into the lake, and then it overflows into the lagoon. Yes. Fantastic. I think they're doing a wonderful job. Okay. Thank you. All right. Any, Commissioner Delaney? Morris, could you get for us more information about these, these laws, the Indian River Lagoon Act, the, all the stuff about the national, national estuary, what we're supposed to be, you know, what those acts are supposed to be protecting, what authorities are put into those laws, what, um, we need a briefing on this because the, the, there's gotta be something we can do to stop the pollution in our community. So, I, I'm just asking to look into these laws and see if there is anything, you know, that we could be doing that we're not. Sure. Yeah. Okay. Okay. We have a motion on the table, and do we have, do we have a second by Commissioner Atkinson? Any debate? No debate? All in favor signify by saying yay. Yay. Yay. Opposed nay and passage unanimously. Thank you so much, and thank you for your coming out. Okay, we're going to go back to the public hearings. We bifurcated our public hearing. We have one at the beginning and one at the end, and those who waited, our first is, uh, Jason Baum, Baumann, Baumann, because he's still here. He's making his way up. Jason, let's give a little bit of time so we, we can hear you. And our next speaker after Jason is Nancy Albritton, Albritton. Okay. So I live on, uh, Bryn Mauer in the Westwood Villas there, and moved in two years ago, and it did flood back there. It flooded all the way up to my driveway. Um, they came, they came a couple weeks later and cleaned out the ravine behind my house, which runs behind Bryn Mauer, Barber Street, and Darius Terrell. Uh, when they did that, they pushed all the dirt up into the backyards, so then therefore my, my yard would flood when it rains in the back. Um, a year ago, when they had a hurricane come through, I don't remember which one it was, uh, knocked down some of the trees back there, and now they're still in the ravine. The ravine has not been cleared out in the two years since. Um, so there is a lot of debris in there that does need to be cleaned out. Um, and that's continuously all the way through to wherever it goes. I don't, I don't know exactly. Um, so this time when it rained in October, it, my house got, took on a little bit of water. I said a little, Dale, Dale Barry was here. He spoke earlier. He's my neighbor. He took on 18 inches. I had just a little bit in my house, but my, my shed is downhill. It's more of a carport kind of shed in the backyard. I had 20 inches in there. My car was parked in there while I was out of town for a couple of months. I actually flew back to take care of it. I had six inches of water in the car, uh, above the floorboards and had to take that apart. I had to, had to clean all that up. I had my pressure washer, lawnmower, all that was completely submerged underwater. So yes, this is an ongoing problem. Westwood street looks like it's from up North where it's just full of potholes and at the corner of Bren Mauer and Westwood, and also at the corner of Kirby and Bren Mauer. It's constantly wet. And as it rained in two weeks, you can drive there and see the water constantly flowing out of the yards and into the street. But yes, the potholes and all the patchwork that's been done, it's, it's just bad. And mainly one of the things we need is the ravines cleaned out. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. And Nancy Albritton. Albritton. Hi there. I'm Nancy Albritton. And I want to talk to you about roads and bridges. Roads and bridges came by today to check to see if they were there to clean, to get the evac truck to vacuum out the ditch. Well, come to find out. Roads and bridges only has 17 people to maintain all the way from the Brevard County line all the way down here. They have equated equipment that when it breaks, somebody from down here, Viera, has to go all the way to Titusville to fix their equipment. What happened is they're having a hard time cleaning this ditch out because when the machine goes down the ditch, it has a bucket. When they go to dump the bucket, they dump it in people's yards instead of in a truck or something that they can put it in. So everybody flooded out. Y'all narrowed, well, y'all, roads and bridges narrowed the ditch when they redid the ditch, I think it was five or seven years ago because they put a new concrete, they put a new culvert in on Kirby Drive. They also put one from the lady, Brianna Robinson's property that overflowed her pond, overflowed, they put it in the lady that spoke, Diane, in her backyard. The day of the rain, the neighbor that lived there cleaned that drain out. Yes, the water came fast and furious, but they couldn't, all the debris, everything, the drains couldn't handle it, from the pond overflowing, not from the rain, from the ponds overflowing. I was very fortunate my house did not get it, but it come down my driveway just like a, like a falls. Um, I wanted to talk to you about that. One of our neighbors had to file bankruptcy because his house has been flooded twice. His newborn baby, his new wife, they had to leave, their car was in the, parked in the road and the water came up from the houses so fast that it moved his car all the way to the culvert. It was terrible. Um, hmm, one second. Oh, Wendixie was a mess. The Wendixie parking lot. I came in in my husband's big four-wheel drive truck and that's the only way I got in. He begged me not to come. I said, I know that area. I've been living there all my life. I've lived in this house 30 years, twice. I've seen this water. Please help us. Thank you. Amanda Holland. I'll be quick. Um, I just wanted to comment about Turkey Creek and the overall, uh, preserves that we have. They are disappearing on a massive scale for overall real estate development. A lot of those areas have been rezoned as commercial so that they can put in as many, condos and apartments as they possibly can. I have now watched a good half, I think, of Turkey Creek near my home be completely demolished. And all of the gopher turtles and other animals that lived in that area, they didn't get an eviction notice their animals. They just got bulldozed. And as we know, gopher turtles are one of those endangered species that are vital for Florida as it burrows and allows other animals a place for them not only to live in regular conditions, but also during fires and other things like that. So for us, losing those gopher turtles and those reserves is impacting our ecosystem on a massive scale. And I don't think we need any more of these, you know, cookie cutter houses that are made out of wood that won't even deal with a hurricane. What we really need is to care about our animals and what we already have. That sanctuary has been there probably even longer than Palm Bay as it stands. And we use the shrub jays as a good way to go ahead and keep them in there. But now they're looking at getting rid of the area over there on Malabar. They already have it closed where you can't walk through it. And I would hate to see Turkey Creek as a whole completely disappear as now we only have like maybe three small sections left, at least in my area. I'm sure it's a bit larger than what I'm thinking. But still, pretty much, I just want to say I would really like us to see some kind of development in actually protecting those key systems that we have in our preserves, like the overall gopher turtles, as there has been a lot of relocating of gopher turtles and or removal entirely that have just been met with fines. I think it would be better if we actually put in maybe more restrictions against these corporations where they cannot build in these areas where these gopher turtles live, because those sanctuaries are vital and we have very small pieces of them left. I have watched at least three of them be bulldozed in just the last like five years. And it's very sad to me. And it has changed not only the way that we incur during hurricanes, because the hurricanes now when they come through, they no longer have that protection of that forestry that was cutting down the winds and the overall tornadoes and everything that we're getting. And ever since then, we have gotten more tornadoes, more devastating force wind forces that have came from those hurricanes due to the fact that we have lost this infrastructure of our sanctuaries. And I just wanted to go ahead and bring that up. Thank you, guys. Thank you. You know, we did make the acquisition for the Turkey Creek Sanctuary using environmental lands money. This year, in our budget, we increased bonding capacity for environmental lands. And probably we will have some debate about whether to extend that program and the type of things you want to protect, that money can be used. So hopefully we can get your support then, too. Appreciate what you said. Okay. That is our meeting. We will move on to board reports. County manager? No board report, Mr. Chair. County attorney? No report, Mr. Chair. District 1? Yes. So I just wanted to put out there for everybody who's watching, just a reminder that January 1st is when the Speak Up Brevard program opens up. So we have about a month for everybody to get their ideas together and get those things ready to submit. And I'm really excited about this program. And hopefully we can have another workshop this year if we can get some board support to do that. Also, I just wanted to comment about something. Earlier, there were some people who talked about having a public workshop to get input from the public about how do we move forward with the space industry. And like many people said, we don't want the space industry to go anywhere, but we just want them to be good neighbors. And so I was, I guess, I feel like we need to get public input about how they want us to move forward with that discussion. And so I'm proposing that. I'm proposing that we have a workshop to get public input into that discussion. And I don't know if there's any support for that. I think I'd like to see what the response is to our letter. I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I'm sorry, sir. The letter from the board requesting the public meeting. So I'm not against you there. I'm just, I want to see how this plays out. Okay. Yeah, because I'm just thinking that, you know, that meeting has to do with this issue. But there's so many things that are going on. I mean, the wastewater treatment plant discussion has kind of dissipated. The, I had a conversation with Space Florida, and they filled me in on some dynamics that they have to deal with out on the Space Center and dealing with all the entities. And I really think that it's past time that we figure out how to get Brevard County commissioners in a round table with the space industry so that, you know, there's more cohesiveness and that we can, you know, get on the same page for the future. Because like so many people said, they're operating in the 1950s, you know, with their infrastructure and some of the practices that are going on. And so it's, that's just not going to work anymore. We have too many people here now. I think that's a good idea in the long run. We do need to open that dialogue. Probably ought to reach out to the Brevard EDC. We ought to reach out to Space Florida. But maybe we should wait. Tomorrow, actually, they're going to begin the hearings for the confirmation of the new NASA administrator. So we don't even have an administrator to talk with. But let's look at that as we go on down the line and maybe give the chance, the board, to maybe give some additional input. But I think it does have merit. It's a big issue. It's huge. And it's very important, you know, to our area, to our country, to our society. So, you know, I think we should move forward. But let's give it a little bit of time. I'm done with my report. Thank you. Okay. District 2. None other than the college football coaches are making millions of dollars. God bless them. Haven't won a game yet. But, nope, I have no reports. Well spoken as an FSU fan. I feel your pain, Commissioner. District 3. No report. District 4. I'll say something quickly, Mr. Chairman. Today, I went to a funeral in Indian River County, celebrating the life of Sergeant Terry Sweeting Mashcal, 25-year deputy who was shot over an eviction issue, along with a locksmith who was 76 years old, also shot. And another deputy, Arispe, I think, let's say his name correct, but he's also a 25-year deputy. He was shot in the shoulder as he defended his partner and the locksmith. So, in attendance today, the governor was there, the lieutenant governor, CFO, Blaise Angolia. There was about 3,500 people at a hangar in Vero Beach. It was a very moving tribute. Members of our law enforcement were there, and also fire rescue participated in the honor guard. And so, it was a very moving experience. And she was the second deputy in their 100-year history to be killed in the line of duty. So, and as the sheriff said, of course, that's too many. But it was really, I think, it was well done. And I know it was a very difficult thing for them down there. So, our hearts go out to everyone in Indian River County and certainly to their family. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for bringing that up. And thank you for attending. Okay, that leads to my report. I do have a letter that we've handed out. It's a letter that the TPO has requested that the county send to Secretary Duffy, the Secretary of Transportation, in support of the application submitted by the City of Cocoa and Space Coast Transportation Planning Authority for the inner city passenger rail program project. And I just wanted to make sure the board knew that we were going to send that letter and get their approval. Do you need a motion, sir, and a second? Yes, that would be great. For the board? I'll make the motion for you. I'll second. A motion and a second. Is there any discussion? All in favor, signify by saying yay. Aye. Motion passes. And we are, final item, I'll pass this out. We, at the time, it's a new chair looking to make some board appointments. And I've got a list of the board appointments. First is the Central Florida Expressway Authority. District 1 is represented, is our representative there. That's a two-year appointment. The Central Florida Regional Planning Council would like to appoint District 3 as the alternate and myself as the member. The Economic Development Commission would like to continue my role there, appoint myself as a member. The Election Canvassing Board would be District 2, and then Daniel Stern would be the alternate. We're all members of the Florida Association of Counties rep, but we're not on the Florida Association, so that's sort of a mute issue. The Indian River Lagoon Council would be District 3, and District 1 would be an alternate. The Bovard Flagler Evolutionary Workforce Development Commission, that would be District 4. Public Safety Coordinating Council would be District 4. Public Safety Council would be District 4. The Tourism Development Council would be District 4 as well. And the Affordable Housing Advisory Committee would be District 3. Transportation Planning, of course, is all of us. That's automatic. And the Value Adjustment Board would be the same, District 3 and District 5. Now, there's only three of these we have to vote on. The ones we have to vote on is the Bovard Canvassing Board, the Affordable Housing Advisory Committee, and the Value Adjustment Board. I have a question. So I'd entertain a motion on that. I have a question. So, which I understand if, you know, you want to keep it the way it is, but the Eastern Central Florida Regional Planning Council, I was serving on that last year. And, you know, I just wanted to let you know that I'm willing to serve on that. I'm willing to continue to serve on that. And I just didn't know, you know, with your schedules and Commissioner Atkinson's schedule, if that would work for you guys to serve on this board. I have no problem. I didn't miss one meeting. But I just wanted to put that out there. We definitely appreciate your service there. But looking forward to going back. I've served there before. And I think. Is Lee Constantine still on there? Yes. Yeah. Okay. All right, sir. Chairman. Chairman. Yes. May I? This is totally something different, but I wanted to bring it to the board's attention. I'd like for staff. The Value Adjustment Board just approved an 85-foot board of adjustment. Yeah. Approved. Yeah. An 85-foot sign on 528 with no consideration to MIRA or the board. I'd sure like to know if we can pull that and make them come back to us. Because 85-foot wide sign is pretty damn big. Pretty big. To advertise their parking for cruise lines. Who did that? That wasn't the VAB that did that. No. It was the Board of Adjustments. Board of Adjustments. Yeah, Board of Adjustments. So, okay. They issued a sign variance. Yeah, and so. Do they have the rights to do that? They have the authority, but I've got an attorney in my office who works with MIRA looking right now whether everything was done properly in accordance with the code requirements. All right. Thank you, sir. On that point, on that point, don't they have to demonstrate a hardship? They do. That's one of six different criteria they have to establish at the hearing before the Board of Adjustments. So, found out about this yesterday, and we're looking at it now just to make sure that they met all the applicable criteria. Is it an existing, Mr. Chair? Yes. Is it an existing sign? No. But there is an existing. I think it's a grandfathered, maybe non-conforming billboard at the site that right now has a Ron Johns ad on it. So, I think the variance requests that it would be visible in relation to that is my understanding. If you allow this to happen, you'll have every strip club who each would sign up, okay? Which I'll vote for that. No. Okay. Yes. Commissioner Atkinson. I'd like to make a motion to approve the Board appointments. Is there a second? Second. Motion, second. Any discussion? Motion, all in favor, signify by saying yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. Opposed? Cozzy, unanimous. Okay. I think that is our meeting. I appreciate the Board's tolerance. Thank you. Okay, bye. The opinions expressed by any member of the public during any period of public comment do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the Board of County Commissioners of Brevard County, Florida, Space Coast Government Television, or the program sponsor and are solely those of the presenter. The Board of County Commissioners of Brevard County, Florida, Space Coast Government Television, and the program sponsor hereby expressly disclaim any and all responsibility or liability for any defamatory or slanderous statements expressed by any member of the public during any such period. The guidance counselor's office, there was a picture of the Ponce. They said, that's where I want to go. It's almost always the Ponce. I asked people, you know, what attracted you here? We vacationed in St. Augustine. We drove by it. That building is what really just kind of embraces people. And with the recent upgrades, the Ponce de Leon will be housing students for generations to come. And that's it for this edition of Capital Update from all of us. The American alligator is Florida's state reptile. They're in all 67 counties, and there are more than a million of them out there. But this is a story about one particular alligator in a particular Florida panhandle town. It's one example of Florida folklore and a legend that's been passed down for years. Esto, Florida, population 300, is the kind of place where locals say everyone knows everyone. And based on the self-serve pretzel stand, people trust their neighbors. In recent years, the town has revived an old tradition, a festival with craft vendors, pageant princesses, and food, typical fair treats, and local delicacies. It's all to celebrate the town mascot, an alligator known as Two-Towed Tom. Town clerk Ben Tu recounts the story.