If you wish to speak to any item on the agenda or during the public comment portion of the meeting, please fill out a speaker card. Each person addressing the board shall have three minutes to complete his or her comments on each agenda item for which he or she has filled out a card. The chair has the discretion to determine or alter the time limits on any agenda item. The Board of County Commissioners requests that speakers appearing under the public comments section of the agenda limit their comments or presentations to matters relating to county business that are within the board's control, authority, and jurisdiction. Good evening. Welcome to the September 10th first budget hearing for the Board of County Commissioners. We have a quorum. We'll call the meeting to order. Tonight, we have invocation provided by Sean Grant with the local spiritual assembly of Brevard. Sir, you're recognized. Thank you for inviting us again. And on behalf of the Baha'is of Brevard County and Melbourne, we'd like to present a prayer for America. O thou kind Lord, this gathering is turning to thee. These hearts are radiant with thy love. These minds and spirits are exhilarated by the message of thy glad tidings. O God, let this American democracy become glorious in spiritual degrees and render this government victorious. Confirm this revered nation to upraise the standard of the oneness of humanity, to promulgate the most great peace, to become thereby the most glorious and praiseworthy among all the nations of the world. O God, this American nation is worthy of thy favors and is deserving of thy mercy. Make it precious and near to thee through thy bounty and bestowal. Thank you. Thank you very much, Commissioner Delaney, for the pledge. Okay, Commissioners, we will go right into the public hearings. We're on item D1. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Item D1 allows for the reading of the tentative aggregate operating millage to fund the portion of the FY 2025-2026 budget that is supported by property taxes. At this time, I'd ask the budget office to read into the record the tentative aggregate millage rate for fiscal year 2025-2026. The aggregate tentative millage rate for the fiscal year 2025-2026 budget is 4.5129. The tentative aggregate millage rate represents a 5.43% increase when compared to the aggregate rollback rate of 4.2806. The tentative aggregate millage rate represents a 1.66% increase when compared to the current fiscal year 2024-2025 aggregate millage rate of 4.4390. Commissioners, as approved by the board on July 22nd, tentative millages have been set at the rates required to fund board priorities, including public safety, specifically for fire rescue wage package, as well as higher funding requirements for constitutional officer budgets, along with an increase in the mandatory Medicaid contribution to the state and other operational requirements. In addition, this includes an increase in the voter-approved millages for the fire control, MSTU, and the parks and recreation millages. In Agenda Item D2, the board will hear comments from the public and then discuss millages and associated revenue and Agenda Item D3. Okay, Commissioners, we don't need a vote on this one, so we'll go into D2. Okay, let's go on to D2. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Item D2 allows for the public to comment on the revised tentative county budget for fiscal year 2025-2026. Before we begin public comment, I would ask that the Budget Office read into the record the revised tentative budget information. The fiscal year 2025-2026 tentative budget is $2,510,399,801. This budget represents an increase of $189,967,259, or 8.19% more than the fiscal year 2024-2025 current budget of $2,320,432,542. Commissioners, we are now ready to accept public comments on the revised tentative budget for fiscal year 2025-2026. Okay, let's do that. We're going to go to the cards, okay? I have two cards. Allie Goff, ma'am, you're recognized. Good evening. My name is Allie Goff. I am the president of Space Coast United Soccer Club. On behalf of our soccer club and our 9,000 members, I want to voice our strong support for the proposed $20 tax increase. We've spoken directly to our membership, and they are 100% behind this initiative. The reality is simple. Recreational growth and facilities have not kept up with the needs of our community. The seven acres at the north end of your regional park have now been delayed about 15 years. If we wait another two to five years, we're continuing the pattern of neglect, ignoring the growth and development of our services and youth programming. It's not hypothetical. We're already feeling the consequences. Just this year, our soccer club has had to turn away 350 children just due to playing sports, just due to not having the facilities and the space in our community. We just didn't have the fields. We didn't even moving it across the parks, you know, within Wickham and Dick Blake. At the same time, our club has been forced to fund and develop county improvements ourselves because Parks and Rec is constantly trying to balance the budget that simply doesn't match the reality of our growing population. As an organization that works with thousands of kids every week, we know firsthand sports are more than just games. They're the backbone of life lessons, teamwork, and character development. When we fail to invest in facilities, we're failing to invest in the future of our children and our community. That's why we stand firmly in support of this tax increase. It's not just about the soccer fields or football fields or baseball fields. It's about creating opportunities for all kids to play and grow and to thrive. And I can say with confidence as the president of our soccer club, our families are behind this project. The one thing to note, I also have the support of our football club here. I myself have three children, all three play in the soccer club, and two of my three are in the football club. My husband is on the board of directors of the football club as I'm on the soccer club. So we're heavily involved in our community, and we work diligently to try to support each other by the same time. On five nights of the week, they'll have 200-plus kids on their football fields, and we have double, triple that on our VR soccer fields. So, once again, we're just here to try to support and show our initiative to say, we need these nine acres, or seven acres, excuse me. That's all I have. Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you. I have a couple things to hand out to everybody. Do you want to just take them, pass them down? First time jitters here, so. Okay. Good evening, commissioners. My name is Pam Avery. I've lived in Brevard County most of my life. I've been a small business owner for over 20 years. I believe in transparency, accountability, common sense leadership, and above all, the truth. That's why you have the packet in front of you, because everything I'm about to say is factual and documented from months of research. Over the last several years, North Revard has made real headway thanks to strong leadership on this board. One of the best examples of that was the creation of the North Revard Economic Development Zone. That program brought in $3.5 million a year to District 1, supported small businesses, attracted companies tied to the space program like Blue Origin and SpaceX, and helped developments like Titus Landing take root. For once, North Revard was being recognized as up-and-coming with real investment and momentum. Before Commissioner Delaney even took office, she campaigned to dismantle the zone. She eventually voted to preserve it, but by then the damage was done. We lost the zone. We lost the funding. Her early comments claiming the zone benefited millionaires and billionaires were not only false, they were reckless. Throwing around the word corruption doesn't make it true, but it does erode trust in the very programs designed to help us. In the end, we lost over $56 million in economic development and growth, and that could have been ours. We need leaders who do their homework before doing harm. We cannot afford to lose the progress now, not with poor financial judgment and weak leadership like we're seeing today. Her lack of understanding did not stop there. She hit the ground running with a spending spree, starting with her renovations at $92,000, later admitting that she had no idea it would be that expensive, and was even discussing with her staff the possibility of paying for someone else's flooring. I had an independent licensed contractor create a very general estimate based on the material and testing and labor used, and it came back close to the amount of the facilities that had already been provided. My point is, simply, clearly, she nor her staff understand the difference between a living remodel and a public commercial project. Another $21,000 was spent to return Tom Stadium Park to public use, totaling in $113,000. I'm kind of moving quickly here. Sorry about that. Then, of course, we had Speak Up Brevard, which we spent $50,000 to $100,000 on that in staff time and effort with more workshops that she wanted to follow. There were 67 people involved in that, and there are 680,000 residents in this community. I'm running out of major time here, and I so apologize. What my ask is for tonight is that this board actually... Gosh, I'm so sorry. This board, please give clear direction tonight to the county manager and county attorney's office to investigate and document the District 1 commissioners... Sorry. Okay, thank you very much. I'll leave this with everybody for public. Okay, thank you. Okay, that was the last of the cards, commissioners, on item... We're back on item D2. There's no vote required for this item, right? So we will go on to item D3. Thank you, Mr. Chair. D3, it is recommended the board of county commissioners discuss and tentatively adopt the FY2025-26 millage rates. The table that was included in this agenda report reflects the proposed millage rates approved by the board at the July meeting, which were included in the trim notices sent to the property owners. You will recall that for several of the voter-approved taxing districts, the board's approved rates beyond what was initially included in the fiscal year 2025-2026 budget. In accordance with Florida statutes, the Florida Department of Revenue, DOR, has prescribed forms and instructions that calculate the maximum levies for counties and independent special districts. Attachment A provides the DOR prescribed requirements for simple majority, supermajority, and unanimous votes. The board may tentatively adopt a millage rate higher than the simple majority maximum rate at this first budget hearing with only a majority vote. However, the final adoption of millage rates must follow the statutory approval thresholds provided by the DOR. The millage rates adopted by the board will determine the amount of revenue to be allocated by the board within those respective taxing districts. Any changes to the millage rates under this item will need to be re-computed and announced under item D-4. Okay. Do you have a question? Go ahead, Commissioner. I don't have a question. Okay. Is there any question for staff before we... No? Okay. Okay. So the board, is there a motion to... Okay. So moved. Okay. I have a motion by Commissioner Goodson to adopt the tentative millages. I have a second by Commissioner Altman. Clerk will call the roll. I'm so sorry. Okay. Are we doing all of these at once or one at a time? Sorry. Jill? I'm sorry. At the tentative hearing, you can approve them all at once. At the final budget hearing, we will have to go one at a time and approve them. Is there any way we could do them one at a time? What's the pleasure of the board here? Do you want to do this all at once or do you want to go on each one? I mean, we had a motion in a second. I would prefer to do it all at once. Okay. I would too. All right. I have a question. Commissioner Goodson. If we do it all at once now, we still have to do it again individually. Is that what you just said? The board can approve the tentative millage. All tentative millages in one action here tonight. At the final hearing, we will have to go millage by millage and adopt them one at a time. I move my motion stands. Okay. Commissioner, I'm hearing we have a motion. We have a second for the item altogether. Clerk will call the roll. Commissioner Delaney. With that being said, I'm going to have to vote no. Vice Chair Goodson. Yes. Commissioner Atkinson. Yes. Commissioner Altman. Yes. Chairman Feltner. Yes. We'll show that passes 4-0. Let's go on to item D-4. Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, based on the approved changes in millage rates that were approved on Agenda Item D-3, I will now ask the Budget Office to read into the record the revised aggregate millage rates. The aggregate rollback rate for the fiscal year 2025-2026 budget is 4.2806. The aggregate tentative millage rate for the fiscal year 2025-2026 budget is, I'm sorry, 4.5129. This represents a 5.43% increase, which is more than the aggregate rollback rate. Okay. We don't have to vote on that one. Correct. We'll go on to item D-5. Commissioners, in accordance with the Brevard County Code of Ordinances, I request adoption of the FY 2025-2026 budgets for the following agencies. A, Solid Waste Management. B, Stormwater Utility Department. C, Fire Services Non-Advalorum Assessment. D, Melbourne-Tillman Water Control District. Okay. Now, do we vote for all four? We need those individually. You can vote for them all together as well. Okay. Commissioners, are there questions on that? If not, is there... Motion to approve. Okay. I have a motion by Commissioner Atkinson. I have a second by Commissioner Delaney. And the clerk will call the roll. Commissioner Delaney. Yes. Vice Chair Goodson. Yes. Commissioner Atkinson. Yes. Commissioner Altman. Yes. Chairman Feltner. Yes. We'll show that. Approve 5-0. And we will go on to... Sorry. Commissioners. D-6. Commissioners, it is requested that the Governing Board of the Barefoot Bay Water and Sewer District approve a resolution adopting a budget for fiscal year 2025-2026. Okay. On D-6, are there questions on that one? Is there... There's discussion. I'm sorry. Okay. Discussion. Commissioner Atkinson. Thank you. Actually, before we entertain a motion on this, if I may, I would actually like to point out that Barefoot Bay, it's a separate independent district with increasing rates to pay off their bond debt. Once their debt is paid off, they'll be absorbed into the county. Residents are really concerned about their increasing rates. So, I have consulted with staff who have been fantastic as normal, trying to figure out how to get a solution which can provide some kind of relief to the Barefoot Bay taxpayers. And so, I'd like to make a motion separate from this to direct staff to have the rate consultant update the rate study to see if we can lower the rate to provide relief to the Barefoot Bay rate payers and to authorize the utilities department to consult with the bond council, subject to the county attorney's approval, to explore options regarding the outstanding bond debt. This motion will not impact any other Brevard resident. Okay. Is that something we would do tonight or possibly on the next regular commission meeting? Just looking for some advice here. So, that's staff direction. It's an item that you could take up tonight. My understanding from talking with Eddie and kind of a back of the envelope calculation is such a study might cost approximately $30,000 or less and could be completed in a few months. It wouldn't affect your consideration of the Barefoot Bay water and sewer dependent special district budget for tonight. What would probably result from it if the study found that there could be a rate modification is that a rate resolution would come back to you at some point in the future. At that point, it may require a budget amendment. But this is something, because it's in the nature of a staff direction, it's something the board could take up tonight or the board could decide that you want to put it on the agenda for the next regular meeting. I'm personally happy to be on board with Commissioner Atkinson on this and get this going as fast as possible for her constituents. Okay. All right. Let's do that then since you brought this issue up. So, okay. That was your motion. That's my motion. Second. And I think I understand Commissioner Delaney is a second on that. Clerk will call the roll on that motion, and then we'll be back on D6, okay? Commissioner Delaney. Right. Yes. Okay. Vice Chair Goodson. Yes. Commissioner Atkinson. Yes. Commissioner Altman. Yes. Chairman Feltner. Yes. Okay. Commissioners, we're back on D6. Are there any other comments or questions on D6? Is there a motion for D6? I make a motion to approve as written. Okay. We have a motion by Commissioner Atkinson. Is there a second? Second. We have a second by Commissioner Altman. Clerk will call the roll. Commissioner Delaney. Yes. Vice Chair Goodson. Yes. Commissioner Atkinson. Yes. Commissioner Altman. Yes. Chairman Feltner. Yes. We'll show that one passes. Thank you, Commissioners. We'll go on to D7. Uh, commissioners, based on the action taken during this public hearing, I now ask that the budget office read into record the revised tentative budget for fiscal year 2025-2026. The revised tentative budget for fiscal year 2025-2026 is $2,510,399,801. Um, this represents an increase of 8.19% or $189,967,259 over the current budget of $2,320,432,542. Commissioners, we request tentative approval of a resolution adopting the FY 2025-2026 Brevard County budget. I, um, I'm hoping we're going to have a bit of discussion around this. Okay. If that's okay. Okay. Are there, are there, let's do an order. Are there any questions? Okay. Commissioner Delaney in discussion. Okay. Um, so as I'm sure most of you have done the same thing, I've, I've spoke with staff about the budget at length. Um, I have some concerns. Um, some of it has to do with our operations. Um, one of my major concerns is, uh, with our capital, our equipment, our vehicles, um, all of those types of things. I'm not seeing how we have a tracking system that is, um, robust enough where we're tracking, you know, what we have, the condition of the vehicle or the, the piece of equipment or, um, how old it is, you know, is it worth fixing or, you know, uh, replacing it's in our budget book, which, which is the information that we have, you know, we basically just get a wish list from all of the, um, departments. Um, and, um, for me, it's been difficult because I'm trying to figure out what items are absolutely necessary. What are things that, um, you know, could we, could we push a little bit more life out of some of the things that we have or, you know, are these things truly necessary? Um, and then, so there's that piece. Then I have things like, um, you know, uh, the way that things are funded within the county and the accountability that we have to the constituents. And, um, one of the things that's come up for me over the past couple of weeks, um, and, and beyond is the reconstruction of Satellite Boulevard. And, um, for, for those of you who may not know is that Satellite Boulevard is a three, um, mile long dirt road in my district that gets heavily traffic, uh, heavily used with, um, a lot of traffic and heavy vehicles. Um, unfortunately there's sometimes, you know, four wheelers and things that tear up the road and whatnot. Um, but this, it's in the process of being reconstructed. And while I've been trying to get information out to the public to try to keep them informed, because as we know, a construction site is not going to be what the, what the end result is, but the fear is, is that, you know, what happens in the meantime and are we using the best materials as possible to, um, rectify this situation? Because what was happening before was the washboard was so bad and severe that people's vehicles were breaking. And so they literally couldn't get in and out of their homes with their, without their vehicles breaking. Um, and so I'm wondering, I'm so sorry to do this, but I will, I want to step down, down here to show everybody a picture. This, this is last night, a, um, vehicle that got stuck on Satellite Boulevard. And you guys can see in that picture. I mean, the ruts are so deep and part of it's because the, the material is so fresh and new, but I'm, I'm wondering the difficult part for me is that we have a lot of blue collar workers that live out here that do this type of work and they're frustrated because they are saying to me that, you know, this shouldn't be happening. And if we were using the right materials that this wouldn't be happening. And so today I got, um, a report of what I'm assuming is, so I asked for the, the invoices, um, for the material that's being used. And it says on it, shell dash, dash shell and shell mix. And so then I got a re a report on the material and it says lime rock. So I'm wondering, is it lime rock shell mix or is it, um, a shell mixed with dirt? Um, and all these things matter because people, you know, they have to be able to access their homes if we're going to maintain their proper, their, their roads. And right now that's just not the case. People are slipping and sliding into the ditches. They're, um, you know, this, this is quite a scene that's happening out there and people are extremely frustrated. And so when, when we're talking about the budget, I'm frustrated because we have these really severe needs and I'm wondering how we know what the right thing is here, because I have my residents who they do this work every day telling me this is the wrong material. But then I have our staff telling us this is the best material out there and it's, it's going to be a great thing. Um, you know, we don't really have the funds to redo this if this is not the right thing. Um, another thing I wanted to mention is, um, about salaries and, uh, the 4% across the board. I think that it's a bit troubling for me, um, especially at our highest level, um, a 4%, uh, pay raise is, um, for our County manager and County attorney is over $11,000. And I think that that is quite a pay raise, um, especially when the proposed, uh, contract that we just got access to shows our County manager getting the same salary as our last County manager. And then on top of that, getting an $11,000 raise two weeks later. And so it's really difficult for me to see all of this and tell our, our residents, yes, we need more money from you. And, um, you know, things like, like our, my office, um, Ms. Avery and I, we, we maybe disagree on, you know, what exactly happened, but we agree that the price was too high. Um, and, um, this is not, this is not just my office. I mean, these floors were put in the entire Vera complex, even after all of the shade that it got from being used in my office. And so I'm frustrated that nobody stopped and said, you know, Hey, this may not be the right thing. Let's look at some other options. And so, um, I don't, I don't really know where to go from there because I mean, this is, I, I really feel like, and I'm, I'm frustrated because we hastily stopped a project, uh, process of picking a new County manager. And, um, I don't see anything that is, I don't see willingness to even have these conversations of the possibility of doing things in a different way. And it's, it's frustrating. It's frustrating because, um, you know, we're going out there asking our residents for more money and I can't in good faith say to them, you know, yes, I know where every single penny is going. I, I had reached out to the budget, um, the citizens oversight committee for the budget and I asked them for some feedback on what they thought, um, about our budget. And two of them responded to me, sorry about two of them responded to me. One of them, uh, who's my appointee, she was concerned. I asked her to look into, um, parks, you know, I just, and, uh, public works. And the reason why I asked that was because part of the reason, uh, what, some of the millages that are going up are, are the parks possibly. And so, you know, one of the things that we found was a, a $20,000, um, commercial stove that is on the books for next fiscal year. And, but that stove has already been in place for two months. And so there's many of these instances where we have, um, items that are already in place, but it's budgeted for the next year. And so the money is all just, um, it doesn't track right. And I, I get the mid-year supplements, I get the adjustments and things like that, but it just, I don't feel like this is the right way to do business. Um, and if our vendors are not, you know, giving us the, the things that we order in a timely manner, I really feel like we should be pushing them to give the, give us the things that we order or, you know, pick a different vendor. Um, you know, and I, I think that we should pay our vendors in a, in a timely manner as well. Um, so that we build good relationships. Um, the frustration comes from, I, I was hoping that we would come together as a board during the budget workshops and really dive into this stuff together. Um, and I feel like we're completely working in silos and I don't think that that is the way the constructive government works. Um, I would have really loved to, you know, dive into these books with the five of us and our County leadership so that we could try to hammer out some of these issues that we're, that we're finding. Um, and, um, you know, I'm, I'm wondering, do any of you feel this, see any of this or feel, feel this way? Have, have you looked at it? Have you, you know, I'm wondering about that. Okay. Mark, could you come up please? I'd like to respond to the commissioner's comments about Satellite Boulevard. Mark, can you tell me, wasn't there some right away issues on Satellite Boulevard? So, uh, there is, um, we don't, uh, own all of it. Uh, some of it is by maintenance. Correct. Now, also, now, when you talk about shale, tell me, tell me about shale. Where do you buy shale for County Roads? So, it depends on whether or not, um, where the work is done. In this particular case, the closest pit is SNL and that's where the, all of the shale for Satellite Boulevard was purchased. Correct. And it meets a certain LBR, load-bearing ratio, correct? Which is a DOT standard, correct? It is. And we have a county code that requires LBR, uh, for, uh, a minimum of 40. Uh, when you look at the pit report, uh, the pit is showing that the LBR value right now is 113. We've also contracted with a geotechnical firm. Once the road is actually done, uh, we will have every 500 feet, we will have, uh, our geotechnical firm go out and confirm that it meets the minimum 40 LBR as well as the density test requirements of 98%. Correct. And, and also, at the rate you're going, there's probably, I don't know, tell me, two foot of that material on that road? So, there's about, there's about, uh, three or four inches, uh, in general of, of just, uh, silt and, and slough. Um, the, the bigger issue really has been, uh, the amount of rain that we have had over the last week or two. So, it, it's very hard to work the material. And so, it has exacerbated some of the concerns that the commissioner, uh, you know, has, has raised and we're working diligently to, uh, try to get, uh, can you tell me the cost? Are you buying it by the ton or the yard? Uh, we are buying it by the ton. Um, what's the cost of ton? I, I don't have that. Okay. Would you say that if you were, you got two choices, I think, in Central Brevard, I think, you know, well, you can have it trucked in from Ocala, but the trucking would be astronomical. You have Rinker, C-Mex, Lime Rock, DOT Lime Rock, or you have the Marley Shell from SNL. The only other pit I'm aware of is Charlie Reed. Is there anywhere else you buy material that you'd put on that road? It is, it is possible. I'm not into those level of details every day, but you mentioned the primary ones. Correct. Correct. And, of course, rain affects all of, rain affects Lime Rock. You know, if you put enough Lime Rock down, get enough rain, it's going to turn to mush, too. Right. So, but the right-of-way is an issue. The drainage on the swales is an issue, correct? That's correct. So, since it was not originally a county road, it was never designed to any standard whatsoever. So, we are rehabilitating the road. We are not constructing some new road, and it will never be to an expectation of paved. Now, that being said, are you talking about the next three years? Depending on money, the next five years, what are you looking in longevity? So, right now, we are doing one and a half miles in the current budget out of the three miles, and we project anywhere between three and five years before we would have to rehabilitate it again. And the challenge with this road, as Commissioner Delaney had very astutely pointed out, it is used by folks that use it as a pass-through to go from 520 to Chevron. We have off-roading, we have wheelies. We've been out there, the Commissioner and I, where it happened right in front of us, and that is a challenge that is hard to address. Okay. Okay. Do you have any other comments about that road? So, you know, as I mentioned, we're working very diligently. Right. We suspended operations today because of the amount of rain that was going on in that area. It has affected some of the drivability. I have not seen where people were in ditches, not saying that didn't occur, but I was not aware of that. Tomorrow morning, assuming that we have drier weather, we're bringing in another grader and operator. We're actually taking it from Merritt Island so that we can help work on that road as well as the surrounding roads and get a handle on it. We are expecting that the weather to break in the next day or two, and we're hoping that once we get to some drier weather, that these issues will find their way in the rearview mirror. However, once a shell is graded and compacted, it will serve as a hard base until people, you know, drive and do donuts and whatnot. We just haven't got to that point because of the amount of rain that we've had. Now, the other issue I know, I think I know, but I'll ask a question. Osceola County uses recycled asphalt off the roads. They mill off the roads to build roads. You know what I'm talking about, right? I do. And it seems to be – I've gone over and checked it, looked at it, and took the time from point A to point B, and it seems to hold it good. But also, do we not sell our millings back to the contractors that make asphalt? So, we do, and we actually get the best rate in Central Florida when you look at the bid that VA is the low on. Because we sell all our asphalt back to them, our price is substantially lower than Osceola County. Right. Is that something we might want to consider to put on a road, say, three or four inches deep? So, we've looked at it in the past. There's concerns from an environmental factor. Certainly, our code would have to be updated because it's not something that is currently allowed by code. We have a number of concerns with it. I know you and I and Rachel have talked about that specific issue in the past. I'm happy to look into it further. Now, what would be your concerns? Tell the board what is your environmental concerns by using that because asphalt's everywhere. Right. So, tell me your concerns. So, I'm not sure that I could prepare right now to fully articulate them, but I know that when it's in a crushed condition, it would – subject to leach more. We have, you know, certainly sensitive water bodies throughout the county where our dirt roads are. There's dust concerns. So, and there's probably others that I'm not thinking about in the moment, but we could certainly review and get back to you. Thank you. I have another question. May I? For a question, sir. Okay. Now, who out in the audience handles vendors that knows everything about vendors? Kathy? CID. Please come forward. Don't go too far, Mark. Commissioner Goodson, you sounded there for a moment like you knew something about roads. I doubt it. You know, but I know that's a nasty road when it's wet, but it depends on how many beer cans you drink, okay? On how you drive out there. Kathy, can you tell me, to help me understand Commissioner Delaney's comments, if you have a list of vendors, and you're asking for a price on toilet paper, okay? To deliver it to the warehouse, and the first vendor, say, is out of Orlando, and he's low. But you call him up, and you say, I need 300 cases on Monday. He says, I can't because I'm out of toilet paper, or I'm shipping it to Orange County. What do you do next? Well, a number of our vendors are their primary and secondary, so if the primary can't support the request of the county, we go to the secondary vendor. Which could be a penny higher per roll, correct? That's correct. Okay. Now, to fight that in any way, to make it so transparent, to make it so cheap, you have two choices. Do without toilet paper, or buy it for a penny more. Is that correct? That's correct. I'm going to vote to do without toilet paper, to save money. So, is there anything else you can tell me how you judge vendors that I'm unaware of? Well, you're talking about bids, which bids, you determine the appropriate bid by the qualifications, the responsiveness, and the responsible bidder with the lowest price. So, we go through a number of criterias to determine which vendor that we put as primary and secondary. We don't just pick one vendor just because of the low price, because you might not get the quality or the responsiveness that you're talking about. So, it's true in the county when you bid something, and let's say that you bid throughout Central Brevard, you know, Osceola, Indian River, Volusia, Brevard. And you call the guy up and say, hey, come put in 10 foot of sidewalk, or you say, come install sidewalk, or come do asphalt. And you find out that it's, he comes here and finds out it's 5 feet of sidewalk, or 10 tons of asphalt. Usually, what response do you get? Well, it depends on where he's from and how much business. I'm talking about if he's out of county. Yeah, it's out of county. Well, you know, when we bid anything, when we advertise, we advertise on a national basis because we advertise on vendor link. So, we advertise all over for the products that we get. But normally, the most responsive bidder is the one that gets the job. Okay, but normally, if the contractor shows up for anything and finds out it's only a limited amount, he probably says, or does he say, I can't come to Brevard County for that amount of money? Typically, what we do, we give them the specs before they come out. This is what we're asking for. And we see the response that we get from that vendor. If we don't get a response from that vendor, we go to the next. Commissioner, if I could just, you know, add to that, because at that point, Kathy's group is not in. It's primarily public works. And so, to your point, we go to those that are on that bid, and we do often get that. I'm not coming from Osceola or Orange or wherever they're from for fill in the blank. So, we then have to go to the next contractor. Right. A lot of times, that might be higher. It may be based on our timing. So, there's a lot of variables. But we look at low price first, and then we look at other factors. Or either you get to wait months before somebody's in that neighborhood doing something that will pick up your portion of work that might be minuscule. Right? Right? Okay? Yes. Thank you, Kathy. Thank you, Mark. Thank you, Chairman. I have a couple. Well, if you'd like, I could respond to a couple of the things. I've got some texts. So, you had asked about price, $8.70 per ton for shell mix. As far as the concerns with the recycled asphalt, you have pulverized material fines. Binders are old, start to break down, and that's what leeches. We've also had horrible complaints in the past, as well as we've heard from cities like Palm Bay that actually do allow it. And also, once you have donuts or whatnot, it tears up the millings, and then you have real problems. So, it is not a panacea and certainly not a solution. Those are just some things that some of my folks have been responding to. I would totally disagree with you, Mark, and your staff, because if you go to Osceola County and look at what they put down on Kempfer Road, down to that pit that they operate out of there, and you have 180,000-pound trucks a day running out of it, now, it's a straight road. I agree with you. And Canaveral Grove Boulevard is a straight road. And, of course, when you put it down, then they prime it again with a liquid asphalt that's emulsified safe asphalt for environmentally safe. I totally disagree. I don't think that you have seen the application in Osceola County. But that's strictly me. I don't – you know, I can care less. You know, I can care less. We've looked – we've been to Osceola multiple times to look at what they're doing, but happy to look at this specific issue again. I hear you, and, of course, if you've got it in your mind that that's not feasible, I totally understand. But I totally disagree, too. But that's me. Don't let it worry you. And the other issue, you haven't quoted me Lime Rock yet, and I imagine Lime Rock is $32 a ton because of the rail to go to City Point. So Lime Rock would be totally expensive. So I don't know if you're going to process soil cement on Canaveral Grove or buy PugMix. It's satellite boulevard. Satellite boulevard, yeah, I'm sorry. Not Canaveral. Well, I don't – have you thought about those issues? So for Satellite Boulevard, it's an unpaved road. Our plan is to – Just stabilize it. Just stabilize – Gotcha. Okay. – our shell. So – and I'm also – well, I'll look into it further, but I'm being told that the example that you have listed is different than what we're talking about. I don't know enough about it. We can look into it further. I got you. Okay. Well, I surely don't either, Mark, but thank you for taking my questions. I have some questions. Okay. Commissioner. So can you clarify for me, what is the material that is being put on Satellite Boulevard? So, again, it is stabilized shell, as the invoices show. I think what some of the residents – Then what this – I was asked specifically what material it was. Is it the – is it crushed shell that is fossilized seashell fragments? Or this was lime rock that you guys had sent me that – with the LBR value 113. So, I'm sorry, where do you see lime rock other than lime rock bearing ratio? So, the chart that you guys sent me, it's – this is a report on lime rock bearing ratio. Right. Right. But it is a report on the shell. Lime rock bearing ratio does not mean it's lime rock – the lime rock bearing ratio is a Florida-specific laboratory test that measures the strength and relative load bearing capacity of lime rock base, subgrade materials, and other things. So, the invoices that I had gotten sent say shell mix, and then underneath it says shell, shell. So, that's the confusing part. Is it a shell mix? And if so, what is the mix? And if it's straight shell, then I'd like confirmation on that. So, after your inquiries, Commissioner, this is what we received back from the pit. But as Commissioner Goodson had pointed out, there's only several pits that provide this throughout the county. We can certainly go back and ask the question that you're asking. Because when I had spoken to you and Susan about this, you guys had said that the engineers had done all sorts of testing, and this was the material that – this specific material was the material that we needed on this road. And so, that's why I'm trying to pinpoint what is the material. Right. So, it is – we had looked at early on whether or not we needed to put down some sort of design mix. We, working with the geotech firm that looked at it, decided that we need shell. That is what is being put down. As far as, you know, if there's anything in it from the pit, that's something I'd have to confirm with them. But as the LBR value shows, this well exceeds the bearing capacity needed to do the job correctly. And the geotechnical consultant will be coming back out once the material dries, after we roll it and grade it – or grade it and roll it. And then, that is when this material will strengthen up because it dries out and it hardens. I guess I'm just concerned because the dates on this is 12-18-2024. So, I don't – is this the same – That is the latest. They have to do – I believe it's a yearly test for FDOT to be a state-certified pit. And so, that is the latest that they have. They are not required to test every time they go in there. They know what their pit is based on this. They validate it each year. FDOT has the state certification office. We don't have that apparatus here at the county. And so, we rely on them to certify through the state. Okay. While you're looking there, are there other questions? Yes. Okay. Commissioner Goodson, for a question. If you know anything about shell, stabilized shell, shell-shell on top of shell-shell, there's wide terms that's used in construction. Okay. And if you know anything about S&L, they make what's called a pug mix. And they make – it's a concrete blend of Marley shell with a certain percentage of concrete. And they ship it and you put it on a road. You know, usually six inches or more thick. Orange County loves it. They use it all the time. I mean, you're aware of that, right? Now, what's out there that they're selling for stabilizing material called Marle Stabilizer, Marle Shell, is the overburden they throw up on the bank with the backhoe. And they sell it when you stabilize a road, just like you're doing. You bring it in and spread it four inches thick and you mix it eight inches deep. And then you roll it and grade it. And it's called a stabilized sub-base. Then, if you go any further, you put lime rock on it or some sort of a base material out of Ocala or Miami. Then you prime it. Then you put asphalt on it. That's the extent of my conversation about this. I'm all over it. And so what's the process that we've done then? You're at the stabilized sub-base. Well, with all due respect, I'm asking our staff, how exactly has it been put on the road and what have been the steps to stabilize the road? Because right now, this picture does not show stabilized. Right. So, you know, as I mentioned, we've been inundated with rain. But as Commissioner Goodson was just alluding to, the material, first off, we push off the fines. Those fines that are there, there's three to four inches or so. And those are going to be used to help box out the road as well as create windrows. We then put in this stabilized shell, which, again, has all come from the S&L pit. There have been some questions or concerns that, hey, you know, why is it coming from Tucker? Why is it coming from our other pit? And that's because the budget process for us starts in the February-March time frame. In April, we're projecting where we're going to be with the project. As you know, we had a public meeting on this, and we believed at that time that we were going to start in June. And in good faith, we believed we were going to finish it. Because we wanted to ensure that we spent the funds, we decided that we would buy the materials and store them. Otherwise, we would normally just have them come directly from S&L. The alternative is waiting for a mid-year supplement or coming to the board to say we weren't able to spend it. And that is cumbersome at best. So that's why people are saying, hey, you know, you're taking it from your own pit. We're not. We pre-stage it there. But what we're doing is we are transporting it, we are dropping it on the road, we are grading it out, we are rolling and compacting it. And normally, if we didn't have the inundation of water, that would dry out and harden. That just hasn't occurred because of the amount of rain has been really intense this past week. We are hoping to get ahead of that with a little bit drier weather that's coming over the next couple days, spreading it out, rolling, compacting it, and seeing that harden up. Commissioner Goodson, if I can ask you a question, because you seem to know, you know, a good a bit about this. Well, if I heard you correctly, were you saying that when you get the material, you grade it into the road? Like it chops it up, like some kind of, it mixes it as you lay the material? Chair, may I? Yes. It would depend on the thickness. If he's putting three to four inches, usually in construction, to do a stabilized row base, you blend it with a mixer, a big mixer. It's just like making a mud pie. Were you planning on putting, may I ask Mark now a question? That would answer your question. Were you planning on putting a full depth of six or eight inches, or were you planning on mixing it? So in this particular case, we know that once we get past that three or four inches of slough, it is an extremely hard sub base. Correct. And we're also not paving the road as you had laid out. So what we determined was that if we went in there and mixed it with the existing road, all we would be doing is making fines out of that. So what we decided was to preserve the integrity of that sub base is to not only just put three to four inches back, we have a road that does this because it was never designed. Correct. So in some cases, it is upwards of a foot of stabilized shell. It is being put on there, and it is being graded and compacted, rolled. And so that's what we're doing. Thank you. Yeah, it's all I know is that I'm stuck between two things right now of the community going, you know, we can't even drive down this road and get out of our house. And then us saying, you know, we're doing everything we can. And I'm trying to figure out, is there some kind of middle here? Is there something that we could be doing more than what we've been doing to make this situation even get a little bit better? So first I would say that obviously we have empathy for our residents and, you know, the concerns that they've brought up. We've been very attentive. We have, to the situation, we've put out our construction supervisor, our maintenance supervisor. We've been out there. While I haven't been out there personally, we have been looking at it and seeing everything we can do. But in honesty, whether we were out there doing the construction this week or not, we would have had the same issues or similar issues because of the amount of rain and the amount of traffic that gets. The only thing that at this point I could offer is it will be a sacrifice, but if we cut off one of the exits, it would mean that the local traffic has to drive around, but it would stop the thoroughfare issue that we have of people trying to go from Chevron to 520. Even though we have closed to local traffic only, we have personally, our team has witnessed people still driving there. We've had people on our crew notice five and six trips in an hour, and so it is not just being used for local traffic. We're not law enforcement. We can't do that, but we could shut one of the roads down. It will create some hardship, but it will help this situation. Right. Thank you. Okay. Other discussion on the item, the original item, which was D7. I'm wondering if anybody had any thought to what I was mentioning about the way that we go through this process. Is there anything else? Okay. Is there a motion for D7? So moved. Okay. I have a motion by Commissioner Goodson. I have a second by Commissioner Altman. Clerk will call the roll. Commissioner Delaney. No. Vice Chair Goodson. Yes. Commissioner Atkinson. Yes. Commissioner Altman. Yes. Chairman Felton. Yes. We'll show that. Passes 4-1. And we will go into board report. Sorry. Mr. County Manager. No report, Mr. Chairman. Mr. County Attorney. No report, sir. Commissioner Delaney. Yes. First, I just wanted to say some things to the Satellite Boulevard community that is definitely watching this meeting right now. As I'm not sure if it was made clear, but it sounds like the county is bringing out another grader and is going to get working on some of those side roads that you guys had mentioned. And we're causing you troubles. And you all heard the conversation about, you know, the material that was put on the road. So I'm sure we'll be in communication about your thoughts on that. Um, I, uh, printed out for us just because we didn't get a chance to, um, really talk about this a lot. And I know it's coming up for a vote, um, next week. I, I just had to share some of my frustrations with the, um, county manager contract. Um, some of the things that I had spoken about publicly and, um, contacted our county attorney about was, um, requiring annual evaluations and doing a fixed term. Um, neither of those things were put into the contract. Um, I have concern that we're just going with our previous county, uh, manager's salary. Um, our previous county manager was county manager for, if I remember correctly, about eight years. And that's a lot of experience. And now we have a county manager who has six months experience, who's going to be making the exact same amount of money. Um, I just, that doesn't sit right with me. And then because the, the, the, um, contract is effective on the 15th, that means that he would be eligible then, correct me if I'm wrong, for the 4% COLA raise, um, which would be another $11,000. So that would be from his current salary that he had as assistant county manager to now, it would be $100,000 raise overnight for a position he did not have to apply to, didn't have to go through the rigor of a process. Um, when, when he was, um, assistant county manager, he was only over six of our departments, um, housing and human services, parks and rec, transit, library services, tourism, and UF extension. Uh, you know, that's a lot of departments that are not under his experience, uh, counted as him having experience over these, these, uh, these departments. Um, I'm by no means saying that, you know, he shouldn't get a different salary for more responsibility. Um, but for us to just off the bat, give a premium salary for someone with much less experience, I, I don't know how we are, are doing that and then telling our taxpayers, yeah, we need to raise the millage. Years ago, we had the same type of thing happen with our county attorney and our previous, um, county manager. In, uh, 2022, the salary jumped $52,000 and then another $13,000 to, uh, you know, shortly thereafter because of the COLA raise. And then, you know, the county attorney's salary, it was, it was pretty similar. Um, and it just, one of the things that's talked about a lot out in, in the public is how much these, you know, positions make. And people are very uncomfortable with it. I've, I've never had a constituent say to me, you know, I really want our, um, county manager and county attorney to get an $11,000 raise. Um, I just, I feel like we really need to look at this. I'm frustrated that we were cut out of the process, um, not only with the, um, going through the process of getting a new county manager, but then we got stonewalled again with cut out of the process of negotiating this contract. And so what happens when Mr. Leeson felt retires at some point, cause he's in drop and we need to find a new county manager. And if he gets an $11,000 raise every year, because 4%, you know, and that, that just gets higher and higher and higher. Are we going to hire a new county manager at over $300,000 a year? At some point we have to, you know, put this, put these positions back in check. And, um, I'm, this makes me extremely uncomfortable. Another thing that makes me uncomfortable about the contract is, is that the car allowance, there's no dollar amount specified. It's only a 65% of a new vehicle. And so it doesn't say what the price of the new vehicle is. Is it a Maserati or is it a Toyota? You know, um, and then it says dues and subscriptions and there's no dollar amount associated with that as well. So I, I just wanted to share that. I wanted to give this information out, um, to give a clear picture of what we were looking at. Um, and just to state my frustration and state that I'm, I'm very uncomfortable with this. Commissioner Goodson and board report. Oh yeah, I got one. Well, I'm thankful for two things, the University of South Florida and Florida state. And I'd like to comment on this comment, um, you know, other than commissioner Altman, the first day I took office here, I didn't know anything about a county commissioner, but I was paid $60,000 the first day. Thank you. And I almost got a raise. Remember the vote? I almost got a raise. So, you know, we're only as good as we are and you're only as good as you are. And if you're in the market working, you, if you're good, you're going to get paid to be good. Okay. And that's part of life. That's my report. And one other good thing for God this weekend is Florida plays LSU. Tigers, right? Yeah, I'm tying in. Okay. Okay. Uh, Commissioner Atkinson in board report. No report. I'm going to have something here at the end. Commissioner Altman, sir. Not, not really, not really a board report, but I did want to respond on a couple of the things related to the, uh, county manager. Um, just, just the respect of giving you an answer of some of your concerns. I was plea, I, I, having worked as an executive and had some experience, I am not a fan of the annual review process. Uh, and that's, I'm not alone in that. And, uh, I think many feel that the annual, the annual review of executives are problematic because they provide outdated, one-size-fits-all feedback and doesn't suit, uh, diverse workforces. Uh, this can result in, uh, delayed and unstable information. And they are costly. They are very costly in terms of time and resources. And probably most of all, what I don't like about them, and they can create employee anxiety and, uh, demotivating competition. And fails to recognize excessional contributions and, and, and are susceptible to greater biases. So I don't, I want you to know, I didn't support it for a reason because I, I agree with that frame of thought. And, um, in, in today's modern world, this model is being replaced by more effective, continuous feedback and human-centered performance and management approaches. There's the foster trust, transparency, ongoing growth. I really like the contract we have, and I feel that the process we have works, and I like that continuous feedback. As far as the salary, I was just thankful that our, a new administrator was willing to work for the price that he was willing to work for. So I was relieved. So I'm relieved about it. I feel comfortable. I respect your position. But I wanted that respect for you to, you know, what I felt and why. I, I, I appreciate you saying something. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Altman. Now, I hate to, uh, end on a sorrowful note, but I don't think we can leave here today with, without, uh, recognizing that Charlie Kirk was shot and killed today. Uh, I can't believe that political discourse has, has gotten that bad. Um, it's a, it's a horrible thing. So I'll say on behalf of the board and the county, we're thinking of his wife and his two daughters and his family. And, um, so we'll take a moment of silence before we leave tonight for Charlie Kirk. Thank you, everyone. Have a safe trip home. Thank you. Thank you.