8-13-26 Special Meeting @ 1:30 p.m. - Aug 13, 2026

special budget meeting August 13th 1 30 to order this is our I believe our last budget meeting we've got a lot to cover today is there any changes to the agenda if not I'll take a motion move for approval of the agenda second I've got a motion and a second to approve the agenda is there any discussion anyone from the public wishes to agenda I can I just make one comment I have a doctor's appointment at 415 so I need to leave 415 you should be early okay I just want to let you know because you said it was a long year and before we leave that with your thought on that you know when I was serving on the canvassing board I was able to phone in on the meetings couldn't vote but I could be a part of the discussion so when we missed you the other day with our meeting discussion she could have phoned in unless you know there's some reason that we we were crazy we were crazy busy that day so I don't know that it would have been helpful but in the future that's good to know I didn't know that okay okay all right any more discussion on the motion seeing none all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed I'd let you do okay all right mr. Crosby you are recognized welcome thank you mr. chair Tommy Crosby Crosby assistant county manager today with me April shooting director of budget fiscal service and we wish to tell you I would be manager introduced them because they've kept my help me keep my sanity going on in your world which means a lot going on in our world especially when it comes to capital so yes so a few things we want to go through today we're gonna talk about briefly a lot of these you've already seen and discussed and approved there are a few minor adjustments so we're going to talk about today FTE staffing charts schedule of fees capital budget financial plan which will be the main focus today which includes roads and housing and then just make it confirming direction on what comes to you in September so first thing is that is the major tax revenue update spreadsheet but there's also you have a handout in your packet those are the same that we went through last time against against again taxable value for the general fund is proposed or is certified at twenty six point nine billion dollars sub 1.8 billion from last year mst for all is it 10.9 billion which is up seven hundred eighty two million dollars general fund bill is rate is proposed to be seven point two one zero seven mills which is a reduction of point three eight nine three mills and is equivalent to a rollback rate so we're going from seven point six to seven point two one oh seven the mst for law enforcement millage is proposed to stay flat at three point five six seven eight so taxes generated in the general fund will increase by one point two million dollars mst law will go up by two million dollars public service tax in the fire and the msp for fire excuse me msp fire in the general fund we split that between the two funds five hundred and four thousand dollar increase we're anticipating I'm saying all of this is I think I mentioned last time we're really reaching into our crystal ball because the state is not still not released it's still not released their projections and estimates based on the last estimated conference and we don't expect they will before we adopt exactly so communicate service tax we're expecting this split between general fund msp for fire and gas tax and we expect that to go up three hundred thirty eight thousand dollars half cent sales tax that service portion only we expect to go up three hundred fifty one thousand dollars excess of those funds end up rolling into the general fund and msp for fire that number at half cent is shared with the state is about twenty five million dollars in total assessment for fire we are leaving the rates flat we expected to generate an additional eight hundred and seventy thousand dollars stormwater assessment half for roads half for EPD we expect to go up a little over three million dollars to buy another seventy two thousand go up go say flat that only go up seventy two thousand correct correct gas tax are the same rates all that we can do and that's an expected to generate another one point six five three million most of that is in the local option five cent that we had and that's because the debts rolling off that money goes again into that fund 280 fund and the excess goes into our capital fund so now we have no more long-term debt in the roads funds any of the road funds so it's available for future bonding we need to accelerate projects but that's coming off the books this year that's why it's increasing I hope that is our discussion today yes yes part of our discussion today um tourist development tax we're showing a decline a possible decline of about a million dollars we are about to do a pretty extensive analysis actually uh looking back through events and not just looking at the past numbers but actually what events have been taking place and one of the big impacts has just been um quite frankly the football's teams have been so bad and revenues just have nothing people come in and stand overnight I mean this are still our big that's our big TDT funding source I think with the excitement this year though we may see a upside the from our expectation right but three of those games are in September for this year so hopefully they can always emphasize this but that's only like twelve percent or under twenty percent of the total revenue so I mean it has to be more than just the total revenue so I mean it has to be more than just the footballs that are it is um you have the big things yeah but the big things are um the games um Gator Nationals the medieval fair um graduation starting back to school those are some big time where then two years ago remember we had the world masters did not have that in the current year revenue stream but we all have that in next year's revenue stream so there are quite a lot so there are quite a lot so there are quite a few other things but those are the major items that come in um I bet we I bet we I bet we we exceed this one cent surtax um again we had that that money has gone down as well so we're expecting a three point five million drop dollar drop on that over projections we we did not make our projections this year we will share it but I don't suspect we will between now and September position update these are FTEs here it is it looks like six and seven yeah um the only changes and we'll kind of look at Bo as I say this I believe are the positions the right we added the two for sports events the booking and sales coordinator and the event service associate the sheriff had requested two which is the information security specialist and two part-time positions into one full-time position which just generates an increase in benefits not salary and then for commission services we're adding the executive staff assistant and the two commissioner aides we have already added the one other executive staff assistant in 26 so overall it's an increase of seven positions countywide and that leaves us a total positions of uh one one thousand one hundred sixty-five BOCC and one thousand and ninety-five for all the constitutional and all the constitutional and judicial positions that we support for a total of two point two thousand two hundred sixty positions funded through county sources okay and with that um I would ask would the board entertain a motion to adopt the um FTEs for next year so moved second I'm a motion second to adopt the FTE schedule any discussion any publicist before all those in favor say aye aye any opposed that motion is unanimous fee schedule again we went through the fee schedule again we went through the fee schedule in depth and um would you share the new changes we provided a summary so that we didn't have to read all of the changes uh we did make the changes in animal resources codes court services EPD and EMS as well as some of the uh items related to parks and open space for the sports events fee center those were the updates that Jessica and Stephen had provided us and then our supplemental fee schedule and then our supplemental fee schedule is what relates primarily to the county health uh immunization chart that they charge along with the sheriff uh the sheriff is adjusting the hourly rates for the deputies based on what gets charged for the current um changing from FY 26 to FY 27 and then we also did right size the burglar alarm and false alarms so we have a lot of questions um I guess uh in parks and recreation um the first is um I guess the when EPD and parks do like the review of like the the overall post springs carrying capacity and stuff I think they may need to look at the park pass price like $30 is really low if it's $6 a day then $30 seems like a really low park pass rate so that's one it's just sort um want to understand why um want to understand why the um lodge and pavilions were looks like they were they were the small pavilion and the the lodge are no longer in the fee schedule um and I was wondering why are we no longer renting the lodge facility or I say on the top of page nine lodge a weekday rate increases from $50.50 you know it's crossed out completely in the fee schedule as a red line oh this is the Cusco Willow office oh yeah no I'm talking about poach rings yeah poach rings Williams welcome good evening Mr. Chair Ed Williams uh parks and open space that's because the uh Anderson the contract with Anderson Outdoors they're now the ones that are in charge of leasing that space when did that decision get made and why that uh that's history that I'm not not as privy to but that was back when we were contracting renewing the contract yeah that that contract's been in place for a little while now um they also manage uh the the parking booth um in our other things like the sports and events I mean I mean the um the equestrian center we still it's still in our fee schedule and we still have control over what those costs are I don't really feel comfortable not having set prices for the rental of that like that are clear and transparent to the public since it's a public space I mean the the you know the equestrian center still in here even though we have a concessioner running it we can add it it's weird to me why it's not in here we need to make sure what the contract says because I think it's a percentage yep uh on a percentage basis and whether or not that changes what they basically put in um their procurement documents you know when they I don't know if it was an RFP or a bid but it was an RFP it was an RFP so why don't we do this why don't we um have you all send us an email as to what those rates are and how they're disclosed and then if we have an issue that we want to amend that contract we can bring that up at a future meeting sure would that be okay that's fine with me yeah okay make sure uh I'm sorry let me see do you have anything else Anna um yeah the only other thing was like in the sports and events center we have like a sort of like tiered rate of like the waivers and I guess I just thought it was odd that it'd be so tiered like with the tourism manager the events manager then the tourism manager then the assistant manager then the county manager like isn't it just in your authority anyway and you can delegate that authority to I just thought it was weird that like tiered yeah I mean we can do it that way when we brought the plan back when uh Jessica brought the plan forward it was kind of that was the discussion and we wanted to make sure um in Stephen's role he had you know some of these are just decision points so he has that flexibility and and so we'll just be a little more transparent but yes you are correct it's really all the county manager of her ability to delegate that's fine I mean he doesn't want to lose a sale well I mean it's also but it is also you could just say me or my designee and then I could make a list that says that exact same thing right in a letter transparency yeah okay that's fine that's all right I was just it was just I was like that's interesting yeah good it's just like none of that's in any of the other any of the other fee schedules because I'm sure that that's still a thing so I think that was all my questions um I also wanted to ask in in that fee schedule if they if there is also the discount that we have for in government and non-profit that we do at other facilities that was my that was the next question I see in um in the delegation pricing authority that we have promotional pricing and discounts that are available at her discretion and then we get a report on that I was just wanted to make the point that when that facility is not being used and we have opportunities to have our citizens and our agencies that align with what we're trying to do that we make that facility yes and and and we did your point yeah that was kind of my point but I also just want there to be consistency about you know if a nonprofit is looking to rent something from the county that they know that there's something we don't have that at the equestrian center either yeah um because they are generating revenue to support themselves but to your point about when they're not being utilized I mean they're that's part of the flexibility of of letting um staff negotiate what that would be um so that it's better to have some revenue than no revenue yeah particularly where we still have to pay the utilities whether there's somebody so believe in the original in the business plan that Jessica brought it was there was some there were pieces of that that included this the what we have talked to them about is to be conscious of there's obviously opportunity cost opportunity revenues you know nothing if somebody walks in that door there's an additional cost it may not it may be minimal but there is a cost to run the air the lights to clean it up risk liability etc on the opposite side of that um if it's sitting there vacant and you have space the primary the primary motive like that and the equestrian center where they were built with tdt funds and so we our emphasis has been just make sure we're not moving anything out that would generate revenue from a tdt perspective right other than that we want to work with local government we do our employee we did our employment this year there etc so we we understand that that is built into the business plan if you will okay i did have one other question the board this is for animal resources we increase the animal surrender fee do we have like waivers for indigence or for people who you know are relinquishing their animal because they don't have any money because i mean we we doubled the cost of animals i understand the point of that is we're trying to get people to keep their animals and work with us instead with like having maybe a pet food pantry or those kinds of things but if we yeah if we could just look at what we can do for qualified income restricted individuals well um okay like and that may be just working with them in pet food pantry or other things to so they can keep their animals and not have to surrender them but just just noticing that that that would be quite a if i was suddenly homeless and then i tried to bring my animal to animal resources and they tried to charge me two hundred dollars i mean really hard it becomes an abandoned animal exactly instead of a surrender animal so just thinking on that okay can i get a motion to adopt the fee schedule so um second motion and second to adopt the fee schedule any discussion mr chair would you do me a favor could you adopt each of them for our auditors absolutely thank you so the first one is uh to approve the fiscal year 27 fee schedule supplemental fee schedule so moved and and can we do all three and the supplemental fee schedule and the sports event center thank you so moved okay we got a second and um that would include adding the pope's schedule from the contractor as well as sending us an email as to what that is correct okay that works for me yes okay we got a motion and a second any public discussion action back to the board all those in favor say aye aye aye any vote aye yes okay mr crocy we are on to the capital budget financial plan yes sir we have the uh does he go on tuesday and now we get the numbers right five year numbers so a couple of things um we've kind of talked about on the fly about the capital budget plans that we're not in your backup when you hit we hand it out and we're going to go through the first I want to talk about housing the board had made a motion to we're not this was the discussion about the proposed housing plan that was brought to the board that you said or move to discuss at this meeting the staff and the attorney's office have met together and reviewed the information we have we've received a pro forma and some other information and through further discussions from a really the board just needs to be aware of some certain facts it is a policy decision ultimately and obviously the stories is encouraged or pleased to chime in at any time from a fiscal standpoint it is conduit debt the agency would conduct it seems we have very minimal or any risk at all as far as that part goes so I got comfortable with that part there is a fee to it the taking a random so it was presented as a possibly in Alachua County first of all need the board of understand this agency could be created and it does not mean anything's going to happen in Alachua County at all it could be another county it's just a way for them to get in the market I think the county that they go to would then have to join the group but it does not mean anything will happen in Alachua the second thing is that the the profit loss or the operating statement appears to be mostly focused around eighty percent or more AMI which is not what the board has taught told us they were trying to target but that is kind of the financial model that would work the last piece was the scenario or the hypothetical what would they could be looking at would be an existing apartment complex that they were coming renovate or whatever so what I went online and just looked at what a typical one of the 34th Street student housing rather by University Avenue I think was a manner what I can't remember which one but basically their property taxes on the road so you're aware your investment in a Alachua County project would be loss of property taxes so it was a looks like a hundred hundred fifty thousand dollars for the county about five hundred thousand dollars for all agencies because that would be in the city of Gainesville plus the city of Gainesville fire assessment plus water management district school board was another it was a big one so all of those was about right at half a million dollars so over a 40 year commitment that's about a 20 million dollar commitment so there is a financial commitment of lost revenue which is a part of the model we know that with affordable housing that's not unusual but I thought having that number would at least you would have that number so that's kind of the financial I have from our perspective and this is where I hope the story jumps in from the financial side we obviously would like more time if the board says yes it is another tool to address affordable housing the board would like us to continue keep going and look at how what a resolution and agreement looks like to participate we can but I can't do that today I need more I need more financial time with the clerk's office and our financial team etc to talk about those things and so that's where we are with that mr. chair we have looked at a draft agreement what I would say to that is there are a number of concerns that is not the agreement that's before you today my understanding is that the manager wants to push back on some of those issues well we would tell you what the issues are with it with the agreement that's brought to you at the time there are a a number of things like for instance the interlocal agreement that you enter into the way that it's structured now the board when it's when it is created can change that interlocal without it ever coming back to you there's there are some provisions in it for instance that if they did a project in Lattro County you couldn't get out of the board for until the debt is retired on that there's there are not any good provisions for what the building would look like when it came to you for instance it's supposed to come to you at the end so there are a number of things that if those are what you want out of those I'm not telling you that's the final deal I'm telling you that the documents that we have today are not there there is some negotiation that would have to happen for us to bring you back something that we could recommend but ultimately it is a business decision on this okay thank you yeah I actually you know part of a cohort of folks that did affordable housing work through local progress a couple years ago I brought some ideas it's actually some of what brought forward my push for the affordable housing component of our sales tax initiative and so I floated it by some of them and one of them is a finance whiz and he has agreed to kind of look at it again and just sort of see like I mean their initial flush of this is like they've never seen this model and so I'm like you know so that always gives me a red flag like why isn't this already in existence if it's such a great model but it but I wanted to get their input so I did ask them for input I haven't received the final feedback from them but what I will say is like in just digging into it even more my feeling was exactly what Sylvia's was was I do feel like we need to make sure we have provisions for their their responsibility for code enforcement violations and minimum housing standards and and maintenance of the building throughout its life so that when they're returning something to us in 30 or 50 years or whatever the debts done that it's still in good shape and that we're not inheriting a building that's in bad shape or that we are somehow on the hook to give them money to fix code violation problems or that they want to tap into our ship funds or other monies to try to do those kinds of repairs so that was one flag that I had in reading through some other documentation the other thing is tenant protections and making sure that we have enough tenant protections in there they're not going to shove off a lot of these costs into extra fees parking fees and laundry fees and you know all these other fees we talked a little bit about it but I'm sure it's in the contract agreement with them was another thing that I was going to flag if we were going to move forward with this and I know we talked about this being the by being kind of more about the preservation of future affordable housing rather than you know affordable housing now but I do think that we need to think about that those income restriction rates because they have them tied to HUD and HUD is tied to AMI and if AMI here like suddenly jumped quite a bit then all of a sudden their rent rates are going to jump by a lot and so thinking about what if we want to have a minimum at 80 percent AMI or if we want to have a maximum threshold or you know just thinking a little bit more about those affordability thresholds and maybe getting Claudia's shop and weigh in a little bit more on what they think those should be based on our actual needs assessment because we know very clearly from Schoenberg what our needs are in terms of housing so those were going to be my comments and just to ask that yeah we keep maybe look at this a little bit further before we say yes yeah I agree I mean hearing hearing some new things that are being brought before us gives me a little different take I mean I think when we discussed it at the board we are trying to try as many things as possible in the toolbox but there comes a point where you know you're kind of throwing out the box because it just doesn't make financial sense short term or long term and thinking about it's 150 to our budget that's you know we can handle that but if it's a 350 to our partner's budget as well that's something that we have to take a different kind of perspective of that I hadn't thought about until you just brought that up top thank you Michelle so just a couple things one you know there is of course no guarantee that anything would be built here in Alachua we would hope that we would have something but there's no guarantee acquire and renovate but that one would come here I think it's also realistic to say the more parameters that we put that we want from a cost profit standpoint because they are still a profit entity you know the probably the lower chance that that will happen that being said the opportunity would exist if we had the partnership and if as a tool in the toolbox and the other part of that is frankly if somebody else builds in another county there is a founder's fee tied to that I mean there would whatever negotiating we would have to do as far as what that looks like but that's just for being in the agreement that we would have to be an administrative fee there that we could whether it may just be fifty thousand dollars but it goes back into the kit so you know if there's no you know for me my the key was is there any liability for us to be in the agreement you know if nothing is ever even built here no um Tommy has said no we haven't seen anything that we would be liable for if it's not in our county um so they can correct me if she saw something but I also agree I mean I wouldn't accept the agreement just as is I mean the the unilateral um amendment of an agreement is not something we've ever really accepted we've got to have it come before us too to approve the deal yes yes so I mean that's you know the thing that gives me pause is the all the issues we faced with the pace program by making a deal with an entity that had a really really good story and then we did not actually that all the all the unintended consequences and all the things that could happen and I think that that just makes me want to be extremely careful about thinking through all the different ways that this could play out so um yeah I mean you get a situation where there's not tenant protections and then it turns into another piece exactly yeah um I was just going to say I think the other piece of this is just that that idea like we did it as I mean what we've what we've asked so far is as a pilot but I think if it's not going to address the gap we have in housing then what's the point right then it's just giving tax-free advantages to to developers to to take a pro take advantage of underutilized properties to make money and I'm not sure that that's our goal so I do think we I would really like to understand you know both from their perspective and from Tommy's shop's perspective like what is that what is that like I want it to be doable right if we are going to go through with this but we also want to make sure that we're addressing as much of that housing gap as possible and as we it's especially as it moves forward like in future years that what the caps are in in increases so that because the goal from my perspective is future affordable housing and and preservation of affordable housing is essentially what this is I mean they are seeing that they can make money by buying these older apartment complexes fixing them up a little bit keeping most of the same tenants reducing the rent a little bit because they're getting a tax break right but and that but right now that makes sense but in the future like that housing may be the affordable housing stock we have because it is the older stock it's not this luxury apartment so I want to make sure we that we have a good opportunity with this I think if we structure it right so I do think it's worth continuing to explore and pursue and as I get information I'll certainly share it with this board I know both of you and Tommy's shop if anybody sends me anything that they've seen from the finance folks that are working nationally on affordable housing stuff yeah I mean from my perspective the summary is if they bring us a deal forward we got to look at the tax impact across all agencies and is that worth the affordable housing that we're gaining that to me at the high high level is kind of a decision point and if if it's not if it's to your point we're just giving the you know that particular situation a good deal and we're taking a half million off the tax rolls for 20 years that's a that's a big issue I'm not interested unless we're gaining affordable housing stock that we test for 20 years you Commissioner Wheeler just do we have a mechanism in place to work with folks who've already built these complexes you know that are that were not we haven't worked with in terms of affordability but that are being built they're being complexes they're being built over the city and most of them aren't affordable housing I know that but is there any mechanism that we can work with some of these people if these these placed units are not being occupied I would really like to know what the occupancy rate is on these things coming up and who they're expecting who they're building for is what I don't understand because I'm seeing huge conflict I don't know if you've driven Williston Road recently between 441 and 34th Street huge monster buildings coming up not to mention the ones on 441 you know going out towards Payne's Prairie I just don't know who's in these places who's living there and that's what's causing the vacancies in the older ones it's a it's a flip of from old to new and so that's what's happening well I know that I had talked to Nathan Collier earlier you know about the possibility of some of his buildings that's before we started investing in the hotel and the motels out there and had you know those big projects going you know but you know at that point he was not interested in in doing that kind of thing but I can see going forward and why I was also at the time trying to understand when these complexes changed hands how we could be in the bidding process for them because we weren't being told or included in the conversations when those things were changing hands to begin with you know we've got a whole different scenario going on now right now that we have Raulston and the consultants with the infrastructure surtax that as there's potential for apartment complexes coming available that that would be a flag as a potential for purchase under the infrastructure surtax dollars and being able to just do renovations and you know so I do think that there's more awareness but it's a good question to pose to Claudia's team like are are we working with our real estate office to track like opportunities for you know the purchase of potential multi-family complexes I mean obviously that would be at a pretty you know we're not looking to like you know I was even just thinking incentives for the people who had the owners you know have these unoccupied places that's all you know that we could somehow you know negotiate some with the people who have these uh these units that are not being rented I think we do have that in that we have voucher opportunities and our I think a lot of our housing folks work with those landlords to try to get them to utilize some of those units with the vouchers that we have well that's what I was wondering what is the mechanism that we do have that mechanism okay all right thank you mr. chair okay tell me uh so you know I'm trying to interpret what I heard is it I guess I I guess I'm interested to continue exploring the idea but with an understanding that yeah so what what what I heard was um continue to explore the idea with where we can go with the agreement but as it relates to if a project is well if a project is going to be done here parameters for what that project looks like both um in terms of the the um housing stock itself as well as future maintenance grants those kinds of things tenant protection tenant protections if one is going to be here if this one's going to be anywhere I think I need to see the tenant protections because I'm not going to be part of developing another pace program that exploits people across the state like I don't want to be a founder in that period you know that's what I'm interested in doing yeah so it's like that's not something that we want our name on I don't think you know that was my concern exactly I do think those things need to be in overarching but but yes in terms of the cost and what the housing mix looks like locally would be affordable so just so I understand um are we at we will continue to explore and get the better details of what it would look like for us but it sounds like you're really only interested if there's actually a viable project that's going to come here yeah I don't mind being part of the collective if there's going to be as long as there's no liability because there's only upside there but when it comes to a specific project in elastro county and removing them from the tackles we got to see what the standard okay do you all agree with that yeah with it with the exception of like I would want to make sure that those tenant are part of the program as a whole statewide right because we don't want yeah we don't want the hillsborough tenants to be saying elastro county is exporting this right elastro county helped right this developer right and build this thing yeah yeah that's an important point yeah thank you for clarifying I just want to know a little bit more about the financing part that's going to be well for me to make a decision right so I think that um and for the taxpayers I think I have clarity I think and the manager just you know kind of clarified as well so we will get with county attorney's office and we will you know continue exploring what that looks like possibilities and if what's practical in terms of actual legal language and those kind of things so yeah that's fine and it is not that's how urgent consumer protections I think is our high okay thank you sir and we can work with with them as well and if we can bring back an agreement that both you know both sides are comfortable in recommending to you all based on this conversation sounds good okay thank you and if not then we should just close the loop from our last direction yes yes exactly okay um next section before we actually get into the five-year capital budget finance plan is one of the things we also at one of our recent meetings talked about was the payment manager projects and the files and those things so Ramon is here today to discuss the payment management projects so that as we lead into the five-year financing discussion you have some background and some information to make policy decisions on okay mr gabarrete welcome the long-awaited august 13th meeting i'm sure lots of people are sitting in this meeting all right we're done good afternoon commissioners if i may take a little bit of liberty i would just want to announce and let the board know that uh we we have promoted from within for the assistant other words director um mr colin is back here he's a new assistant you're also surprised unfortunately what that means is that now i have a civil engineering three position open so we're beginning the process to advertise for that and he's quite the pickleball player too yeah i i hear you beat my staff all the time no no no no no show me how to do it on the court i have a jump driver you needed yeah you do as they're working on that um we have there were some questions about the original couple capital budget finance plan that was in the manager's book um just want to clarify that what you'll see on the five year is um for like the transportation plan we're just going to refer to the transportation plan we're not going to try to reproduce it in another document so those those uh those uh those annual charges align with the expenditures that you've already approved in tcip um housing we don't have a solid five-year plan yet so that's not really out there um you'll see the facilities plan that travis has shown you now a couple of times and y'all talked about a couple of different times and that's in there the major projects there are really funded right now middle of the we're in the middle of uh the courthouse which is going to take a couple of years and we're just getting started with the animal services building which is funded in 27 so there's not a lot after that really prepared i think there's the sheriff's office and uh fire station fire station so nothing really in the future for those on the land acquisition and conservation land really that is um but we're just going to provide the land acquisition list it's not really outlined by year because that is really when it comes available and when they couldn't enable to negotiate it so what we're going to do is the board they're really good about making sure the board is aware and has approved their acquisition list um after this meeting or after the budget we will actually post or link the land acquisition list to the budget side so people can see that as well as a part of the capital the summary that you gave us eight six okay good okay okay okay thank you commissioner thank you mr chair um i'm just going to move into it uh the board did uh ask staff to come back with this report uh it wasn't like two or three weeks ago uh four meetings ago so uh on the on the list is we're going to try to review a little bit of the history of dcip how we got to this point uh then uh cost of collector roads uh the segments of collector roads that are not included today in the in the current dcip there's also a list that you're going to see there about all those other collector roads that not even one segment is in the dcip so you can see the amount the the the uh the amount of funding that would be needed to have everything collector roads in this dcip and then we're going to get also into a discussion of uh maintenance issues like potholes and other things so uh that's really a little outline as to what we're going to follow um yeah i mean i just want to say something ahead of all of this is that you know a convert week i went to the training yesterday for our tpo which was exhausting um but it was usually a weekend training by the way you did it all in one day it was it was a lot um but it it just because it's just like so many acronyms and whatever but at the end of the day what i got out of that was that if it's not in your if it's not in your long-range transportation plan and there happens to be federal dollars for it you're not getting those federal dollars just because it's not federal dollar eligible and there is repaving resurfacing funding that comes available and there is repaving resurfacing section i don't think that many tpos put resurfacing projects in their long-range transportation plan in general because they're so expensive and they take up a bunch of the money and they want to be able to do other transit multimodal and safety things so i get that but i guess my my bigger question for this and for us as a whole is like should we have all collector road segments in our long-range tcip at least for our long-range transportation plan with the tpo resurfacing projects so that should federal funding come available for resurfacing projects we would then be eligible all right if i may may get into that um first of all to get uh federal eight dollars that but the road itself has to be when it's going on a federal aid list so not all the roads that you have are eligible for that to start with uh the current federal law says you cannot use those funds federal funds for resurfacing for maintenance projects now we as a national level we are trying to work on that um so that's the current federal rules that's what it says right now you cannot use federal dollars for maintenance projects now you can use federal laws dollars if you're going to do capacity projects like adding a lane and something and that's where we got funding also from the state for northwest 23rd for example because we added some things and that was part of the agreement that we have with the state eventually because of the city of games who are squeezing in coming in and taking the sick big money one one one year and blah blah so um it is not uh current federal dollars you cannot use them for maintenance however if you have a capacity project yes then deal then then those projects should be in the lrtp uh everything you're going to hear today here is maintenance um so that's where that's why i like most these projects are not there now we did provide they talked about resurfacing i know they did and i know they do all the time but i'm telling you that that federal law federal rules right now do not allow federal dollars to be used for maintenance uh on for maintenance projects now you can use them if you actually let's say going to add a lane capacity incidental then you can use them for that now we are working with the federal administration with usdot right now on national level trying to release some of those funds lord willing with a new transportation bill that hopefully is going to be uh approved sometime in the next year two or three i don't know when that's going to happen we're hoping to have that into the bill the funds uh from the federal administration can be used for maintenance projects so that's something that we are working uh nationwide and if and when that does happen uh then yes you will have to leave uh these projects are going to have to be maybe as an addendum or something to the lrtp long range means capacity um and that's usually what a long-range interpretation plan is is for capacity uh not for maintenance i'm telling you what they told me and i know what they said i heard i'm confused now yeah so uh i fortunately allison or or or yeah that's really that's really that's really where they draw they do the difference is capacity or not so the big discussion tpo is prioritizing that it's always been prioritized so if i may may continue uh commissioner so you know this is an old slide from 2020 i just wanted to bring it up again you know this actually speaks to back in 2020 when we did the assessment the average pci pavement condition index the average report card for our road system uh was 60 uh 60 uh for collector roads was around 57 i believe 57.8 the only reason the average overall was 60 is because the residential roads were better than collector roads um but that was our that is our uh pci um and you see that the the asset values i don't want to get into that right now this was in your presentation on 2020 i just want to bring up the fact the fact the fact that the pci was already low back in 2020 like we all we all probably know the reason i included this slide here is because uh you know we all know the volume of emails and phone calls that we're all getting uh by the way dot is also getting demand also on our roads and so is the city of gainesville and we get them all um and i will talk a little bit about that a little bit later but here's the issue back in 2020 um like i said our average pci was 60 so it was right around this line the average you know right there around 60. unfortunately as years have gone by we're now in 2026 about to go into 27 uh that line has now moved over towards the the wrong direction um so when you look at this curve a lot of our roadways now are actually in this downward curve when the roads get to this downward curve it's the only way you can stop it then it's a million resurfacing project uh that that that's really and unfortunately that's where most of our road a lot of these roads are in right now um so that this is why i wanted to put this slide in here again battle the background as to how we and how and why we got here um also just as a reminder also in 2021 i i when i when all this effort started also for the gap for the infrastructure surtax and all this uh i brought this uh to actually even trying to maintain a payment condition index of 60 we were supposed to be uh investing approximately 31 and a half million dollars a year you correct that to current value and that's around 42 between 42 and 43 million dollars a year that was just to keep a 60 percent that which is what we had back in 2020. if you wanted to bring that up 10 points to 70 which i would love it to be 70 by the way for engineers 70 is still failing um but uh uh you needed to invest 41 and a half million per year which translating today today's dollars that's closer to 55 54 55 million dollars a year you just heard from tommy how much we are basically investing from the infrastructure surtax it's hardly about and i'm running around 12 million dollars of surtax being invested on that and then when you add the gas tax the obstacle things are that on the average it's around 25 26 million a year that you're investing in your roadways right now so that's part of the challenge that we have today we're not catching up we're still losing ground um the entire program includes around 180 centerline miles over the 10 years you maintain 700 centerline miles of roadways so again there's about 520 centerline miles are not even included in your in your transportation program right now this is one of the lists that i told you you because you requested this list uh before um these are all the segments uh of roadways that that are not included in the current program however at least one segment on those roadways is included like 234 so to actually be able to include all the segments that were not included in those roads is an additional 86 million dollars that is in today's dollars um then the even worst number is the following slide these are the collector roads that are not even one little segment in your tcip right now that's 174 million dollars of roadways that are not included in your capital program today so i just wanted to present those numbers that's the magnitude of challenge that we have can you go back to the previous slide uh can you go backwards where you put your arrow okay just go the other way just roll it the other way roll it oh the other way there you go yes ma'am i'm just looking at the payment condition the pci payment condition index those are as high as 93 right some of them are in some of those are down to 43 35 exactly like 14 yeah there's one that's 14 which is uh 2054 i can tell you that your uh pothole crews uh recently spent uh almost two weeks on that road um and and uh there are portions of 2054 that are in the program uh there is a small this portion is not yeah you've got you've got about of that 86 you've got about 20 million that's 70 or higher yes so your real urgent one is 66 million 66 you did the math right yeah i just did it in my head big numbers yeah i don't i don't i i have learned not to contradict commissioner cornell when he does the math in his face in his head because he's usually pretty close i mean i'm not looking at the the big number but yeah i mean you know screams that we need to bond the nickel team and move those products up well if i may thank you for bringing that in your program that you did adopt back in 2003 and you again approved the revisions in june 2nd it does include bonding 30 million dollars of the elms nickel in 2028 so even your current program today already assumes a bonding of 30 for 30 million dollars in 2028 of your elms nickel and what's the total bonding capacity of the elms nickel well i believe when when i did a 30 million i basically use tommy's number so yeah i believe 30 million and that's to be paid i think over 30 years 30 years yeah so the five-year schedule on the elms nickel on this schedule on this schedule on section five yeah has a 39.5 million that's with the bond that's with the bond yes and most of that's planned in 2028 26.7 million yes and why 28 28 why not now yeah why 28 why not 27 when uh the tcfp was prepared i was told that it was going to get paid in 2027 and then therefore in 2028 we could bond so that's why 2028 that's what we saw earlier while there was the excess money for now it's available now this is our last year okay we still have the payment in 2027 yes yes but it's in reserves so the money it was excess so could we bond it in 2027 sure if you're ranching that's one of the things we can give directions today yeah move that up yeah right and in the tcip uh i did actually load there the estimated payment also so it everything is in there starting in 2030 you can bond earlier that would be uh your decision of the board uh county commissioners so is the remainder of 234 and is 337 in that 66. 337 is in the program for 20 31 or 2032 because of the bonding of the elms nickel if we would not bond the elms nickel you wouldn't be able to do that that list commissioners everything that's a segment that's not in the tcip that would be additional road projects that we i know i just didn't know if it was not on this list or was not it was on the other i believe in i believe the entire 337 is in the tcip and the two and 234 234 these two sections are not of the tcip and they are listed here yeah they're in that list right there that yeah and by the way we're about uh in next year we're going to go to go do a uh uh sections on 235 and there are there is at least one section on the kind of road 235 that are not included also and that's also here in this list uh 235a south between 441 and county road 235 completely out of the plan now 235a north of 441 is 100 in the plan okay good and that's definitely in way worse conditions than the one on the south side yes on 441 so for the ones that are being bonded and we're if we're able to bond more quickly are we able to get to them more quickly or is it still a matter of capacity with road crews and like if we were like to bond it tomorrow if you if you would bond can you accelerate those projects yes um here's my caution though to the board but again you are the board is if we start leapfrogging leapfrogging projects like doing a 20 2032 project before we do a 2029 project that might not be something that you might want to do but what you can do then is you can just go ahead and bond now and do the 2029 projects or going to career projects and then start advancing those projects that's a lot of it commissioner alford i i just was wondering if it was time if if given that we're several years into this if if maybe there should be a reevaluation that some roads may have deteriorated faster than uh we expected and some less and that we might have new information about some roads and you know we might have more development and more traffic on certain roads i didn't know if it it made sense to do that or if that's just too big of an ask given the the amount of work you put into the initial evaluation as we go into the presentation i want to get something called uh through what's called rmt is the company that we're looking at and we're talking about so uh when when the infrastructure search that got passed in 2022 what i was recommending is to do a five-year program not a 10-year program uh because after five years we might want have wanted to do what you just said commissioner alford uh or you know in that way you were not tying down the project into after five years the direction of the board at that time was 10-year program because the tax was a 10-year tax so that's why you have a 10-year program but you can react but you reevaluate your program at any time um and that's why we're talking to this company rmt to be able to get a more up-to-date evaluation and i believe i have i'll get to the slide okay i didn't mean to jump ahead for you that we are looking at the pcis that are in here were the original pcis yes so those pcis today are probably worse yeah and is wakkahuda on there wakkahuda is on they're already in the program there it's on the next slide on this slide they're on that one okay because wakkahuda is completely out of the program right now yeah the problem with wakkahuda is that if you touch it you really have to then widening it and right away it's going to be a challenge um you might you might need to go to curving gutter the whole the whole way um also we looking at analysis of the work orders um we have other roads that are definitely getting way more uh work orders for potholes than wakkahuda but wakkahuda unfortunately today the entire road is out of the program when does it make sense to look at a road like wakkahuda and consider something like a um oh what do you call it that uh chip seal versus um i know we don't but that's a five dollar fine tommy you're funded um uh commissioner wakkahuda road uh the the biggest one wakkahuda road is the rutting that you have today uh so my recommendation even before if you go chip seal it i would still say let's do an asphalt leveling course first and the problem the reason you have all this rutting that you have going on in wakkahuda right now is because it's mucky it's it's mucks underneath or in the state of florida built roads back then they would actually not remove all the unsuitable materials that we would remove today so there's a lot of muck and unsuitable soils underneath that road yeah i'm asking that because i've been asked that and i'm just passing that on so that they can um you know 346 and you know we've actually had a ground penetrator radar that go there and there's trees buried buried on the road that's the way that it used to be instead of taking the trees out and burning them or dumping it someplace else they used to put them right in there and backfill and pay over so i wouldn't be surprised if we do a gpr to grab an entire radar on wakkahuda that we're going to find also trees underneath the road so moving forward um one of the things that i did ask my staff is going back to our new citywide uh we used to use city works now it's psd citywide system we just did that transition in march we're still finding quirks in it uh and uh commissioner i will be sending you uh you all hopefully next week a report on all the uh open service requests and work orders because i was asked to do that so you will be getting that next next next week after we look a little bit into some of the issues that we have been finding but the highlighted in yellows are those roads that are in the tcip right now and as you can see that over on the left column there's a lot where you have 374 repair potholes that's the section 241 2054 so there's a lot of roads where you have a lot of uh potholes that have been repaired already already in your tcip now i wish i could tell you all of them are but they're you know there are a lot of them there are yes ma'am do you have an analysis of the cost of those roads in our tcip those roads just those that are in our tcip that are our major repair requests and what the cost would be what the cost is in our tcip uh we can give you that but again the ones that are in yellow are in the tcip already the ones that are not in the tcip 88 or 30 or 32 or we can we can put together that list also i'm sure steward is making notes right now we can give you that list uh via email uh next week but well i don't i know some of them for clark is already done that was the discussion on southeast 15th uh southeast 15 is going to be planning to fix it next year yeah we have all these puddles but we have to maintain it until we can fix it right because it just continues 98 and both 98 and 93 are going to be done this year before the end of the calendar year so that's going to take also some of the top ones out yeah how how are the potholes that are repaired using your strip paver counted differently than the ones that are just repaired in typical fashion uh good question um there are potholes in those areas that we are fixing but the strip milling and resurfacing that we actually are doing is mostly for those areas that is a lot of block cracking alligator cracking uh and yes there are potholes in there when there were milling so those are not being counted those areas are the strip milling and resurfacing program is being counted as a separate performance measure which is one of the things that i noticed in the report that you all got for the quarter number three it was a very low number like the thing was like two thousand dollars spent or something like that a very low number uh and i went back and looked at the work quarter system and and i'm gonna say it unfortunately the work orders have not been closed so if the work orders are not closed it doesn't make it into the program so in the next quarter you're gonna see a lot larger number uh when it comes to that to that program but but we southwest 75th street where we called used to call the last mile that was completed already this week staff is back on 170th 241 um that they're back on that and then after that we have about three or four more rows to do this year um and we're gonna we're trying to get to them as fast as possible we are having some safety concerns because of the heat and things with our asphalt crews so we're having to accommodate that too uh since we had one of our employees yesterday unfortunately was taken to the urgent care because of heat um yes it's very hot for them and people that don't know people that have never worked with asphalt don't understand this but let's say the let's say the heat index is 105 when you're standing on the hot asphalt you add at least 10 more degrees and then when you when you're using the hot asphalt you add another 20 degrees which means you need a 15 minute break every half hour and they are encouraged to be doing that and and so we actually had a lot a lot a very large safety meeting yesterday because of that what are we doing to recognize the hard work that these employees are doing to catch all this stuff is there anything that we can do to help them feel recognized and um thanked for the the extra effort they're putting into all of this well i'm sure if you ask my staff they're gonna tell you give me more money but um uh but what i will say and this will be very very good because i actually told my staff today don't look at facebook uh because they're they're getting depressed they're getting you know that's what i was worried about um so i told them that but yeah i'd really like to get through the presentation so anyway so uh payment distress i just want to again scabs are on the left side that's not a pothole yet i'm not saying it won't be a pothole but but not yet uh alligator and block cracking that's what you see a lot on the roadways a lot of the complaints that we're getting now is the rideability issue it's very rough what in the wild there will be a large pothole you know that's that's a given but a lot of the complaints that we're getting right now when we go see it it's not really potholes it's actually this kind of a problem that we have and and later in the presentation i'm going to address how to maybe fix a little bit of that um when it comes to uh managing potholes today we're no longer just dumping material in the hole and hope that it sticks um so i'm asking our staff to actually cut clean tack and put the asphalt material in there that's why it's taking a little bit longer now and i'm also asking for uh the crews to do the entire road good because what we were also being blasted with in emails was we will go do the two or three that were in that were in that service request but 50 feet away there was another one and that we didn't touch i got tired of that and i told i told i told the crews when you get to one road do the entire road now that there's no assurance that once they leave two days later another one is not going to open by the way it happens um but that's why they're doing the entire roadway now instead but it's taking a little bit longer and you can see uh it's uh on the screens the way it looks after it's repaired but look at the picture on the right side right like one side that still needs patching exactly but on the what you see on the left side is not really a bottle it's a scab but in order to fix that you basically end up having to mill and resurface all over that's the problem that we have that's the challenge that we're having right now why can't you treat it like a pothole where do you stop commissioner that what you see right now is just a picture if you actually go to this road that side there like that scabs is there for about a thousand feet like that that's the whole road site yeah that's the challenge that we have right now they're not potholes and if you when we start cutting and cutting and cutting and doing this our crew is going to be there all year that's what that um milling machine is supposed to help with yes but are we using that like yeah where is that yeah it's on it's on 170 right now 241. the left causes damage to the cars the one in the scabbing in the middle causes the bumpy ride yeah uh i also want to you know publicly say i know this has been in my email so it's also we now have four crews going on uh we we finally got the repair trailer back a couple of weeks ago so now we do have the four crews going on uh three crews are are we have put them like on a rotation on the roads that they get the most calls right now trying to to get those out of the way as faster than we can the fourth crew is the one that is jumping from large pothole to large pothole as we get notified and we see it um like that one inhale that had a had a yeah um so that's really what all this says i mean those are dangerous ones we need a crew that can do that now we i have given the i have given the authority to the operate to the coordinators and supervisors so they can actually make the call and move crews around so they're not stuck yeah it gets to the point where they really have to move a crew to go do something else they have the authority to do that um we actually have a sop for uh for potholes uh uh uh fixed which i already described in that picture so i'm not going to get too much into this uh we do stress safety as you can see appropriate ppe have must be worn when they're cutting and doing things like that um it's a two page uh sop the this what this is the cost of these crews right now uh including the trailers or the truck uh the the personnel is on the top line and each the two crews uh the two two personnel two staff crew members uh are around 132 000 for the two uh when it come to the pothole for the truck because it has to be cdl driver um that jumps to about 240 000 then because we also have now three members of that crew not just two um so i just want to include this uh the cost of this of these crews that you have going on right now so to add two crews to add two more food you're talking about between 750 million dollars plus or minus yes yeah keep in mind that up until uh basically first week of july or so uh we we had two crews basically that were working now we have four so uh in addition to that the asphalt street milling and resurfacing that you're doing now that was also in addition to and all that was done like i said earlier uh i think it was last week without additional ftes we just took position from other crews and established this asphalt unit um here's what we're not where we start getting into other things that we could do and i guess i'm just putting this out there out here in addition to the in-house street milling and resurfacing we could put out a bid if the board wants to um and look at uh maybe doing a street milling and resurfacing bid contract talking to uh contractors here their their daily production has to be at least 110 tons per day to be able to even run the plant um and that that translates to about 3 000 linear feet of a four foot uh mill area so based on that estimate is the number you see downtown down there approximately 150 to 200 000 per mile uh of what it would uh what it would take to actually contract to increase the street milling and resurfacing uh for that pothole repairs we could try to do a contract for pothole repairs don't know that we would get bidders if any for that um but it's something that we can try is that i'm sorry is that 150 to 200 per mile per mile per lane mile or per road mile that's per mile for road mile for seven okay that's assuming two four foot paths like on the right one on each side yeah okay uh that's where that comes from that's cheap compared to a million and a half the the the other the other item that i most that we would actually propose to really look into and possibly either do sole source or go out to bid is the use of what a material that is called uh mastic one if you go out to 235 right there across savannah station you're going to see a strip on the that's that section on the right the picture on the right it's a very rubberized material they strongly recommend only doing it in the cold months that's why we did this test section like i think it was around thanksgiving last year when we did this one and we also did a section on on 235a just north of the bridge that uh on there um and it's holding they're holding off very well um the material itself is not cheap it's more expensive than asphalt um and so the estimate for in-house will be around 85 000 a mile plus your staff um that's just materials but if you're gonna contract the number that the vendor told gave me as a budget number would be around 300 between around 350 000 per mile to use this material and what's what's the lifespan of that did they give an estimated lifespan they have been using this material uh up north and what i've been told is this material has stayed down for uh in some areas for 10 years but that's up north do we have any data for in florida we're one of the first one if not the first entity is think there wasn't there's i think the florida dot one of the districts used them in the panhandle on one road uh but we are basically that's why we did a test section okay great thank you so you know i keep mentioning that i took that we took uh uh personnel from one some of the units in reference to other units i just wanted to include this table and i'm just going to give you an example for example when you look at unit five right away maintenance um before we did all the transfer and they had 16 fte's in in their unit they lost eight so now they have eight fte's now keep in mind this unit was the one responsible that was supposed to have the two asphalt pothole crews going at all times anyways so that's four so what i'm telling that unit super coordinator is you lost four not eight um but i just wanted to include this table the other unit that lost a lot of people is what we call unit four construction it's really that's the crew that we use to do sidewalks and other concrete work they went from 16 to eight and they did lose eight because they were not doing potholes before um so i just want to include this table uh here um that's recommendation but one other one few things that i want to also uh let the board know we we mentioned uh earlier um rmt um don't ask me what it stands for it's rmt it's road road maintenance technology something that yes uh charlotte county actually uh had a contract with them they have been notified unfortunately that they're gonna lose the contract over first because of the ballot issue uh if it doesn't pass they're probably gonna stay on but this is a automatic automatic data collection system that you attach a sensor to a vehicle and it's gathering the data and at the same time the program is also then spitting out a payment condition index that still has to be reviewed by an engineer but at least the program itself is giving you a value as you are monitoring all these roadways so that's one thing that we're looking at the cost for that uh the estimated cost of that is around a hundred thousand dollars for 700 center line miles that you maintain uh and they basically would provide the sensors to attach to the vehicles plus the program that information then you can use to then change your priority correct you need to change your priorities so we are looking into that and that's one of the things that in this recommendation where it says direct stuff to implement ball and has to maintain this program that's part of that we're going to be looking at that and we're going to have to be working with our omb office and and coming back with you at a later date with the cost and and what is estimated and that's tommy said where the money's coming from um but i just want you to know that we are looking into the rmt we are looking at this one thing that we also did today another reason why i did not send you the report yet sunday night i get an email from one of my staff assistants hey ramon just so that you know i just checked how many emails we got we they had over 200 emails over the weekend to rb maintenance yesterday they had over 500 that's in addition to the first 200 over the weekend it's because of the now a lot of more duplicates and that's what we then that's why that's another reason why i didn't give you the report yet because just browsing through the open server request a lot of more duplicates so now we have to have staff time to actually go through all those things with them out and condensate into work orders for one uh yeah we actually also have a a lady that you all know that that used to work in our administration office over here on the other side of this wall she's going to be helping us answering phones come starting on tuesday and that's going to free up one of our staff assistants to actually go in there and and go through the backlog of emails that we have and when i say backlog i'm talking a week a week and a half to two weeks it's not months this to me is where ai is helpful for government i'm not a huge proponent of ai but to me there's no reason why i stopped just there and sit through those emails yeah for hours and hours and hours and hours like we should be able to feed that into you know co-pilot and say like look through these emails find duplicate emails identify service requests and we are looking also into that i guess i'm not i'm not prepared to tell you that what recommendation we're going to do because we just started looking into that again when we went from getting 20 or something per day to getting 500 yesterday yeah that's when i called me and i said i do we need help answering phones yeah i mean it's it's an indication as of what's really happening out there and we're asking folks to report to us yeah they're doing it so it could also be a bot that could be let's go around why don't we go around let everybody comment and then we'll see if we get a motion so who wants to start all right go ahead marion please i have a question about the holes i have a couple of questions the first one um the deep holes that we have that are waiting to be fixed that are really deep that we're concerned about is there any way to fill them with even concrete or gravel or something just to kind of ease that top until we get to it with a more permanent response commissioner thank you for that question the the deep holes that we do get we try to catch with that fourth through uh as soon as we can quickly uh those are definitely something that we try to do i mean we did a few yesterday uh one of them was travis parker's brother that reported it um but that's what the fourth crew is there okay the caution about using other materials for example we used to use what's called a cold patch and it would stay down for a day and then we just exactly uh and then we were getting blasted because the material was not being compacted it's not stained blah blah blah so right now we're just doing hot patch and and and as we put all this effort in it that i am hoping that we start trying to to get a little bit higher so if somebody if somebody tried to patch it on themselves you know at least as a temporary it wouldn't work it wouldn't that wouldn't and it's not encouraged it's not encouraged i know i i know there are folks that live out listen i'm from appalachian kentucky we you know we fix things with duct tape and so you know sometimes bubblegum so i was just trying to see if there was and then the damage that's done to by those put to those cars do we really have a mechanism that we have people who are engaging with us to find out who to contact if there's damage to their car do we really have a mechanism for that so um we we have a process by which we take calls and investigate okay what's being requested um there are a number of factors to determine um what we want to how we want to address that how we should address that so we that is reviewed by risk management okay and um yeah probably need to change his phone number because it's about that's okay that's exhausted as ramones crews are but um we we uh do evaluate them as they come in and a lot of factors go into determining what we should be doing shouldn't do no i would imagine that opens a pandora's box for sure uh just and we don't want to open pandora's box no we don't no we don't and then the other uh part about the uh hiring of the additional public works folks you know i think we mentioned last week the possibility of using because the crews that i think you're moving are from yard long uh maintenance um mowing and mowing and mowing and that sort of thing you know those things that maybe not require the same kind of skill level that another would i don't know but we also talked about the possibility of using work crews again and i don't know if that's something in the past that's been a good thing or a bad thing you know you can let us know you know whether that's more trouble to hire folks when we used to have work crews and at the top of the program we're getting around 35 of them per day okay um you do have to go pick them up and then take them and this was with the department of correction yes they uh this was not with uh this was not with uh county jail trustees okay um and we would those folks were being used to pick up litter ahead of the mowing ahead of the morning group that right now the mowers have to be doing with a couple of rnts so that would help because that would free that would complement the people that we just removed to go back and be able to get that that's what i was wondering that's what uh yes is there a reason that we wouldn't be losing using our local people that as instead of the state i mean if they're an issue with using local folks from our facility i cannot speak to the current chair or the or the sheriff before that the previous the sheriff at that time did not did not want trustees to be used outside the jail yeah okay however yeah so um a couple things at that time um remote is correct um and so we would have to as far as our local jail we would have to look at that um i can say that when we did eliminate those crews it added at that time back in 2018 19 when we did that it added in 2018 dollars a million dollars to the budget by eliminating those workers um but one of the things that i have asked staff to kind of look at and exploring kind of um twofold if it is something the board wanted to look at from the staff issue the board has also talked about we've also talked about different programs for people who to type of apprentice type programs and it may be an opportunity particularly if they are local and and this still will require a lot of vetting we've just sort of talking about it but the opportunity almost like attempt to permanent type of yeah to training people um so that when they did step out from their time served that they would walk into a government job that is good paying and with benefits so it may be able to be looked at as a win-win we would really have to explore that because um to make sure that that all those things would work but we can certainly do that if there was a willingness but that's not a next week program it is not a next week program yeah but it is we've got to get directed from us even right to it right if the majority of us want to pursue it yeah right with it well and then are you in favor of that is that why you brought that up yes that's there yes because i brought it up last week and you all said to wait until today but i just wanted to make sure too that if we're paying people one of the concerns about making sure that people are being paid so that they can maintain a life on the outside in this community is is one of the things that i would like to have that as part of the consideration thank you mr chair okay i have to conclude okay um i have a few things um i'm gonna start with uh i've i've been told that you were quoted i think in the alachua chronicle is saying that the big problem is is there's not enough money and um while i agree with that we've also had discussions about capacity and availability of asphalt and um availability contractors and all of those kind of different things can you talk a little bit about where that balance is the you know i know you can do anything with enough money but where where are we at do you think in terms of the balance of of money versus actually being able to get the work done with what we have okay good question um for example a project that just begun right now 1471 that one was put up to bid we had i think it was like five respondents to that one uh the low bid was again a local contractor watch uh hit was pretty close so there are contractors there that would bid on your project today um now if all of a sudden you have a program that is an annual program of 200 billion dollars or so i don't know that you might have the capacity of local contractors and i say local is in the area it's not just in the alacho county uh we might be able to attract like anderson colombia for example that has done some projects for us also um and and so i don't i'm not ready to say that we do not have the contractor industry to be able to handle increased projects that you go out to bid um you know if the more you put out the more you're going to find out as to where the limits are uh there might be a contractor that might be overextended and you might not want to hire that contractor because then you're going to have problems with that with that project and we have had a few of those um in the recent past um but the current you currently have two contractors on the annual contract uh watson is is under contract for uh roadways with higher volume than 2 000 vehicles per day and also speeds there's some criteria there for smaller roadways is is hicks those are under annual contract and that's why we don't we're not going out to bid for every project at this time because we're using the annual prop the annual contract to be able to move these projects fast out accelerated um we would have had more contractors under that under that list however uh a couple of contractors decided that they were not going to do bid on everything on the list and we wanted to make sure that we had everything for example one of the items that was not bid by a couple of contractor was maintenance of traffic which is critical for any project and when they were asked why didn't you bid why didn't you include that in your bid they said well because we didn't want we didn't want to have to go provide mot maintenance traffic for another contractor and that question was actually asked during the bid process it was answered and they still didn't provide what did so unfortunately two contractors were rejected because of that uh but Watson and Hicks continue to do a very good job for us right now with the current workload uh we are going to be putting more projects bigger projects out to bid uh most likely uh but we're also trying to bundle in bundling up um you know and uh so i i'm not ready to tell you that we do not have the capacity for contractors at this time um we definitely have for the current workload um and so i i'm not prepared for that there are contractors outside a large county that could be on our projects if they if they if they could and they want all right and then um another issue that has been brought up is the availability of asphalt is that something that could be corrected in a contract or is it just literally they can't get the material so they don't do it or they're going to lose money if they can't move it or what is the what is the balance there okay asphalt if if you have a project uh like for example for Watson that produces a big but they produce their apple now where we we what we do have issues is for our pothole crews right when Whitehurst preferred or Watson are not producing we we we have gone all the way to Anderson Columbia also to pick it up uh but it's a long trek so unfortunately if they're not producing we cannot patch potholes that is where the ability becomes in uh if they're producing we have no problems getting them to the asphalt is that something we could uh correct with a contract with them to have the asphalt available while we know we're doing this work they have a minimum volume you you you correct uh you just heard me say earlier in the presentation that i've been told by contractors if if they have to if the break-even point to fire up the plant is 110 tons we're getting uh four times two between eight to nine tons a day so we there so yeah well i was i guess i'm thinking like is there a way we could uh plumb on to another project i don't know i feel like i just wondered if there was the creative solution in terms of how we can you know work harder the more roads we're paving the more asphalt will be available right exactly yeah if they have if they're paving on one of the roads we have asphalt that's not a problem the problem is the other problem is weather obviously you know i mean if it's a rain day they're not going to produce a problem okay um and so i i this may or may not be a a um question for you but i do know that there's been a number of of uh of tire rim damage that's been referred to risk management and um another question that i've had is you know what are we paying to risk management and if we fixed our roads roads that wouldn't go that way or what are what are we re what what's that number really starting to look like so well and that's something i don't know that we want to really get into um here um we are monitoring those claims we are monitoring those claims okay and um then the uh other issue is uh scabs versus potholes i'm sorry michelle we're doing um the uh so the we've had so much rain and then we have these potholes that are these scabs that look like potholes in the rain and so uh people think well it's if it's a scab i can drive over it but then two weeks later it's a pothole and that's i've actually had somebody say well you know i've been driving it over for two weeks and then last week was the pothole and i busted my tire on it so um so i'm getting questions from folks about the scabs versus potholes for that reason and and and claiming it's a safety issue i don't know that there's anything we can do about that right now i just uh said i would make some mention mention it but um i'm mentioning it um because it it is you know it was a safety issue for them um and then uh let's see i i i really want to go back to that question about um recognizing the employees that are working on these crews because um i know the mental uh and uh psychological impact that all of these emails are having on me and i'm not the one out there doing this hard work so i'm i'm really you know concerned about all of the people that are not just out there fixing the potholes but are dealing with the public and um working on this and i i don't know what the answer is if we could you know send them out with you know frozen bottles of gatorade that have our thank you notes on them or whatever but i feel like we need to do something that helps them understand that we really do appreciate the work they're doing and we understand that there is a mental toll to what's happening in our community right now um you just did well and i and i and i believe that to be true and i i personally would like the list of those employees so that i could thank them myself but um i i would like um you know i i just want to put some thought a little bit into what we can do to to recognize what what's happening commissioner i guess what all the way i can answer that is all all of the above okay uh but a public recognition by commissioners and in board meetings it goes a long way uh you know and and and we do like i said yesterday we did have a sit down safety talk and you know we and i told that the supervisors today folks drive around look at your crews if they start walking slow or something stop the work um to go ahead and take a rest uh you know and possibly even just come back to the yard you know and and and do something around the yard or something because we also want our employees mental health and physical health to actually be okay just also the other thing that we also are implementing now we're going to start rotating these crews it's not going to be the same people doing it all the time um we're going to be doing them two payrolls at a time you know so basically four weeks and then we're going to be rotating out and putting others in uh because quite frankly i also don't want to lose all of a sudden 13 people um and i really believe that if you expect somebody that's going to be doing this kind of work for on and on and on we're gonna we are going to lose people also so that's why yesterday i decided i told the crews we're going to start rotating you out interestingly there was a few that says i don't want to rotate because uh you know they're working also on fridays on overtime so that's also a plus but they are working um so we're looking at that also but all the recognition by the commissioner by the board goes a long way well thank you and if there's you know um if i would be uh in favor if there's some small amount of additional funding you need to provide frozen bottles of gatorade or or you know powerade popsicles or whatever it is they do have them they do get water they do get a gatorade uh an idea came out today uh working with risk uh some county up north actually provides their employees frozen popsicles that's what i just said frozen powerade popsicles are a thing so we're looking we're looking into that uh actually patrick boyd with base manager is the one that brought that up so he's he's looking into it now so we are looking into items again working with hot asphalt working out there in the sun it's not something that we gotta get we gotta get to this item and we have another i i i understand but um i used to work at a power plant so i know the cost of working in hot hot hot places and just for the record i do support a work cruise as long as there is a pipeline to future job opportunities okay do you have anything uh yeah and then truck so my comments are this it sounds like we've already expanded our road maintenance crews to do potholes and that our strip milling thing is back online now so we're likely to see kind of a sounds to me like we're about to see sort of a rapid improvement in the response time and the ability of our crews to fill potholes and fix minor projects on roads so i have to say i'm not super in favor of us just expanding two more potholes because i don't think that actually solves the problem and it's two hundred thousand dollars or what what was it two hundred thousand dollars to 750 to a million for two more crews right so i mean that's 400 that if we did two crews that's 450 500 thousand dollars and it's two hundred thousand dollars for a mile of strip paving like we could get a couple miles of strip paving done on roads that are really bad you know and get the whole whole mile taken care of or the whole two miles taken care of so for me it's and that to me is a longer term solution it kind of holds the road for a longer period of time until we can get to paving it so i guess i'm more interested in that strip paving concept as a concept we get to i mean it's not cheap but it's not expensive in comparison to a million and a half miles of road and if it's a separate contract that's something we can afford to do right now um in order to solve some of these really bad roads i mean our roads that are on that top list that you know aren't going to get touched i don't know or not going to get touched for many many years to me that seems like a win-win um i don't know if we can do that in house and do it cheaper i mean that's contract and i know we don't have a paving crew now that would be another thing that wouldn't happen tomorrow but i am interested to know like i mean if we've got 700 900 miles of roads and most of them are 60 which means most of them are going to get to the same point that we're dealing with with these roads that we're getting these phone calls like all of them are going to be on that downward curve very soon then maybe we need a strip paving crew because maybe we need to be strip paving those roads until we can get caught the affordability of 80 million dollars or 40 million dollars a year 60 million dollars a year like that's just not a reality that we have so i don't know if we've looked at what strip paving would cost in-house is the question i have well we are you are doing it in-house right now this the 200 000 of lane miles no we you actually have right now uh in your loading your infrastructure through your infrastructure surtax four hundred and forty six thousand dollars to this year for materials towards the strip milling program that you're doing in-house uh three or four years ago you did buy a four foot milling machine that we got very reasonably because i remember and we got that so that's what we're using now but you are doing that in-house right now so why would we contract it out then because you were probably want to do more uh keep in mind these are maintenance groups so let's say we do get i'm not i don't want to knock on wood but if you get for example a hurricane this season all that stops and we go do hurricane stuff for about a month or two that's next one don't say that so that's the danger of doing that with in-house maintenance works folks okay thank you anyway so i'm i'm in favor of exploring that so uh the the the second the top bullet but i i really am not excited to enhance pavement maintenance from the perspective of just like more pothole crews but i am interested in like those longer the mastic the strip paving the longer term solutions that are going to give us some relief so it's not just this constant revolving door until we can get to paving that's number one if i may uh commissioner the 13 staff members that you see there those are to replenish the people that are that are removed from the maintenance crews to do us all right now yeah those 13 are not to create two other crews right and i and i'm fine with them i think we should restore public works i mean i can say it's already i i see i can you know i do think we should have a full staff or at least the ability to have a full staff on sidewalks on stormwater people pay a stormwater assessment fee we should have that fully staff to be doing that work so i you know i'm in favor of that um for sure and um you know to bring us back contract options and budgetary options for sure on the workforce piece i'll say this i am in favor of a fully structured workforce development program that supports inmates and re-entry for developing their skills giving them fair wage jobs and getting them moving in the direction of being able to county positions i am not in favor of workers i am not in favor of garnishing wages i'm not in favor of 50 wages i'm not in favor of this being like a cost saving opportunity for us to reduce the cost of labor but i am interested in the idea of us utilizing the opportunity of these individuals having a chance to get training and then be a conduit to to good paying jobs and and to workforce development in the future so that i'm totally open that's three people that said they're in favor of that you're going to hear from chuck and i had a minute so i mean i would say is is something i would be really excited to see happen um and in many areas i would say that true it's true of other parts of county government as well if we have that for animal resources or we have that for other places i think it's another spot we could do this so um those are my comments for now thank you chuck well i i support the recommendation and uh if it's needed but my other question is if we do this is there funding for this and uh or do you have to move funds around to be able to do this chair um because i think that's important but my major thing here is safety i think yesterday that's all i heard in the mcpo thing is that the number one issue for the state is safety so we should be thinking about safety um i don't know how much money is being spent uh when a person uh damaged their car or their rims or whatever i don't know what the cost is and how many that is that we get a year in reference to that so um but i think if this is going to address some of the immediate issues i support it but i don't know what it's going to cost or if there's a substantial cost right so mr chair um we work with mr garbarotti's on the recommendations um for just to be worded this way for a reason um as he mentioned earlier it's a 10-year tcip well i can promise you a 10-year cip to me i'm telling you what the roads don't cause or remote telling you what the roads don't cost 10 years from now it's crystal balling it at best right um you heard me speak in the past i think one of the things talking about um bonding and advanced funding as much as you can uh the chair we've got a lot of discussions about why that's a good idea because the cost of construction the cost of roads is going up a whole lot faster than our interest rate cost of money cheaper yeah it's a lot cheaper um so to do this a few things happen one is hopefully that first scale he showed you of the deterioration of the roads right hopefully we can slow some of that down or ease some of that so then when you get into actually acting it's time to do the road it may be not quite as expensive at that time the other thing is is all of these are projections into the future whether they're revenues that we know this year we had to adjust or whether it's the cost of a project i would recommend that we do this we will move some money around what i don't want it to show is all of a sudden projects are falling off the back end i don't think that's necessary i think we can build it in to some some projection models that are reasonable represent what's going to happen without showing that this is going to be a detriment to the hundred plus million dollar program this is that this is not that kind of money you've heard me say before million two being there we're all just friends right i mean a million dollars is a million dollars no doubt but this is a hunt that's not less than one percent if it's five million dollars it's going to be less than five percent of the total program there's no way we're within five percent of anything revenues or the expenditure side in this program we deal with that as it comes some things you just have to deal with as it comes so we adjust the facilities plan we started the courthouse we know what that number was now we know what it is it's not even close to what animal services built but also we didn't know the revenues would be what they were we didn't know property taxes were going to go 10 values were going to go up 10 a year so i mean some of those you just do your best projections that you can you build a plan you work towards your plan but i would recommend that we are very talk to ramon about how we're going to lay out the budget so that the resource is not the issue saying i can't start is not the issue we're prepared to leverage anything we can leverage as quickly as we can leverage you get things i would recommend that this plan yes we'll work with them we will fund it we will determine what that funding needs to look like and then we will in omb go back and look at three major sources of funding that we work with it's the general fund transfer it's over six million dollars a year that's general fund money so it can be used however you need to use it it's the surtax money and then it's the nickel elm tax those are the largest three sources of capital funding we have they're 90 of this plan so the other things are little things so i would recommend yes let's do this we will get together with his team we will put together what this looks like financially in terms of a fiscal year 27 budget amendment what we are some of this will do now if it's 26 like we've already added the fourth crew but i know he needs more staff 13 are recommended here all of that is a part of a large plan that i think we can afford within the resources we have without being judgmental to the program that does not mean three years from now we need to look at funding bonding the elm's nickel that's five years out or ten years out from then there may be other bonding opportunities we take advantage of in future years i think the chair has mentioned about timing of the surtax and what we're doing we need i think this is just as important to show we are making progress on this as much as it is worrying about what's going to happen financially in five ten years from now so yes sales tax could go a lot higher than what it is right now we don't know we don't know what the economy is going to do so it goes down obviously it affects the plan i would recommend doing this because of the immediacy of the needs and the longer term implications if we don't do it what that looks like to the plan that was just my comment i think he satisfied mine i do where i feel um i mean i don't see the the pavement um condition index equipment on this recommendation but i definitely think that's a good idea something we need to do i and and updating our overall plan based you know putting those new numbers in and rerunning the numbers i can to your point like i don't i don't want people to feel like we're baiting and switching them on their roads but at the end of the day like i feel i feel a little baited and switched to tell you the truth because i felt like we came up with this plan based on all these conditions that we fed into this thing and that was how we were getting and we then we fed in all the collector roads and all the big roads that were in the worst condition and had the most complaints on there as well so that we wouldn't be in this position and it was my failure of understanding that that we fall off a cliff at 50 percent pci and really not i feel like maybe we the engineer that presented that to us and and ramona like i feel like we should have that should have been hammered into us a little bit harder like that those roads were going to fail during this program because like had i known that i would have probably made different decisions about how we prioritize the roads in that system more on the pavement condition index and less on some of the other factors that we fact factored in there i have to be totally honest with you but i don't want to change things completely but i do want us to take the time to do that analysis again and get an updated sort of this understanding of which roads are we looking at that are going to go off that same cliff and we're going to end up with crumbling roads over the next you know several years next five years of this plan that we've got baked how many of them are just going to fall off a cliff in the next because we're seeing it happen with 234 we're seeing it happen with 235a we're seeing it happen with 337 like we're seeing that we are okay let me get some comments and then um chuck go ahead no i i maybe i'm a different kind of thinking person here um we know in the past money was never spent toward roads from previous commissions yeah all right we have a 20-year backlog yeah of roads in alachua county 30 30 30 40 40 40 wow well i thought it was 20 but but see now that's even disturbing to me you know but i'm just saying folks we're going to have to do another referendum maybe two or three more referendums to even catch up if we catch up but the way it looks now i don't think we're going to catch up this has got to be a revolving door here of that uh surtax funds to even catch up we can't do it financially and if the property taxes initiative passed from the state we're in more trouble folks so we got to do the best we can with what we have and and we have to ask our citizens and be honest with them and tell them the truth what is actually happening it's not embarrassing it was what our previous predecessors have done that put us in this particular this position uh to try to solve and it's just like kicking it down the road to a later date is what has happened to us and i've been here 14 years and we've been trying to address this issue and i'll never forget we did the tax referendum just for roads two times and it failed and then they said what you all need to do find it in your budget and do it that way that's what the citizens said and so it makes me frustrated when people are complaining they knew the roads were bad and bad shape and how it was done or the previous uh public works director back then i don't know who it was but they didn't do a good job and i was about to curse but but i'm getting frustrated because we're trying to solve problems that's now 40 years old and we're trying to do the best we can with the limited resources we have yeah and to maintain all of our services you know and then what the state is doing to us it's killing us you know it's just i just get frustrated over all of this foolishness we're not thinking about people yeah there you go we're not thinking about people you know we're thinking about getting rich what's best for us and i and it's it's unfair that all right let me get off so much i'm sorry thank you commissioner thank you i mean i'm really upset we'll all amen yeah what i amen what i've been saying is that um we we cannot fix in four years no that's happened over four years but what i've also said is that there hasn't been a commission that has invested this much capital and that's true and and resources into attempting to fix that situation than this board that being said i want us to do even more so i support the recommendation here's also what i support um and i'll either pass the gavel make a motion or i'll ask someone else to make it but i support us directing staff to pursue additional bonding in the current year we're planning in 2028 i want to move that up to immediately um i i would like to take that list of uh partial segments that have roads that are included in the ticpa tcip and for those roads that have less than 70 which is an estimate of 60 million use that bonding to move up projects that are in the tcip and get these projects into it so i'd like to that's how i'd like to use that bonding um but i would i want to give staff the authority to come up with the best recommendation of that i don't want to pay something that before we have something that's already on the list i want to move the list up yeah um i want to i want to invest in the rmt ai i think having additional 100 grand but having current information gives you then the tools to bring recommendations back to us that says this was in 2031 but it really needs to be in 2028 so i think having better information we should do i support the fully structured workforce re-entry program uh that i think you've heard everyone say they support chuck do you support that yes so you have five commissioners that support that um and those are i think are things that everybody has agreed with so moved second okay that's great so here's my question because we haven't gotten to the additional work well let's just let's just pass that motion i want to ask about the additional work because i do want to i don't want to leave is there any discussion on the motion any public discussion on the motion this will be a good time to hear it yes sir uh come on up and if you'll give us your name uh and give us your thoughts on why you came to talk to us you've got a light system three minutes green means go yellow means 30 seconds red ones wrap it up uh larry haynes i live out on 1471 i've been out there almost 22 years in the past years holes and potholes got patched without even having to call but in the last year two years it's gotten ridiculous and and i give you for instance on march 3rd of this year i called about a there's a difference all the way across the road and there's a huge pothole i'm not a little hole a pothole i called about it march 3rd i called about it in april i called twice i called in march it got fixed finally on june 29th four almost four months later a huge pothole you know maybe you need to pull a crew off somewhere and go ahead and fix it if it's a big one now this is a big one right now there's over that i live on the road there's over 20 big potholes that people's cars can fall into now somehow you've got to get off some of these projects where you're doing sidewalks or setting trees out or where you're doing the roundabout and some of this stuff maybe you need to pull somebody off about them fix those roads but there's no reason that one hole got took four months and right now like i said there's over 20 big potholes now i'm not counting all the little pot or a little hole that your tire can't fall into those need to be fixed and maybe sometimes you need to pull crews off from different projects and do it and i'll tell you where the problem is seriously is the county commission you've got your projects that's going on they're helpful for people or you're doing library projects or you're doing this that and other and you're letting their roads go you're not and not you that's like you're saying that the past has been terrible this council needs not to be pacified they need to take this serious and appropriate some money because the county road department just overworked over swamped and i appreciate it they fixed my driveway and i'll tell you did excellent and i told them one night when i called in to get it fixed i said i'm not in no hurry i just but they came out and fixed and done an excellent job so thank you thank you for those comments and and you are right the buck stops with this commission um okay any other public comments on the motion okay back to the board further discussion remote uh thank you thank you thank you commission thank you mr chair i just wanted to to correct something that i said and clarify a little bit there are states that do use theoretically federal funds to do maintenance but what those states do they actually buy the federal funds and then they let the locals use state funds to do resurfacing and maintenance projects on their roads in the state of florida statute that says we cannot do that so i just want to clarify that okay all those in favor of the motion say aye aye all right any opposed that motion is unanimous okay i want to now just very briefly talk about adding crews um because i hear you loud and clear commissioner prisio that you know my my budget thing this year was we were up to four but i think if we added two more would help here's my question for you ramon you said you had 200 emails this weekend 500 through thursday you're analyzing them would additional crews help or would they not obviously i'm not going to tell you it won't help uh i'm going to tell you though that would they help significantly enough to make an impact on maintenance requests and what we are i mean my emails are 50 about this so no i i get them too from you yes i'll give them to you uh uh if if i may speak to that i'm never going to say no to additional help yes if the board wants to fund two more crews we can would it help the long term it will help in the long term however here's the here's the here's the other side of the coin you have vacancies so even if you have to write this 13 it'll be probably months before we can get this 13 hired so even if you authorize uh two to cruise today you probably won't see uh an improvement on that until six months from right and mr chair that that that is part of why we brought the suggestion about um you know some kind of at least pilot program to look at that re-entry piece because that could be a way to help us get staff into these positions okay well give me a timeline on when you can bring back that program because what i what i if i'm going to drop this i i i'm going to bring it up in three months if it hasn't improved again and i'm going to ask for a budget amendment i mean my feeling is these four crews just got running again and all up with all the equipment and everything they need plus the strip milling machine repaired and out there and by the time they would get those people hired it would be the new budget year anyway so i mean from my perspective yeah i was going to say one one suggestion is let us let us see what we can do as far as bringing back some ideas with a program such as that and at the same time we'll have that'll give us time to evaluate with four crews running and the uh the other machine up and running is are we making an impact and we can look at those you know two together okay so um may i ask and see if my colleagues agree if uh we bring this back to us for that discussion in the first meeting in november we'll have the reorg we have one meeting in november i don't want to push it into 2027 we're going to have one meeting december is can we have that by middle november september october november yeah that will be your new committee member too you'll have your new correct yeah you guys okay with that i think the may want to wait till the first meeting of december for that very reason so you you're the a new the new commissioner can participate and hear that because we only have one meeting in november that's the reason i'm thinking about that okay then i'll just say before the end of the calendar year how about that okay that's great is that good everybody okay with that so we don't need a motion to that but staff has heard us that direction okay um all right are we done with roads we ready to move to the capital mr chair if you could you thank you remote you're welcome yes if you would move to adopt the uh capital budget financial plan and then we have a couple more cleanup to talk about so moved second second all right any discussion on the capital plan uh-huh the only thing i saw on there that i was happy i was happy with a lot of it but i see that we're chip sealing the tusker willow road um that's the plan which will improve the um that's great the use of that facility i think and um you know the i saw the majority of the budget of the courthouses in there yes does anybody have any other questions i did i just have a question for uh parks and or travis the park k and walker park which are acquisitions do we know where those are located we already have land identified i saw how we're doing west end west end 2.7 and then 2.7 and then 2 million in the years yeah but walker park is i mean they're they're further out they're like 2030 and you know they're further out but i just i'm just walker park already has a name so i'm wondering is that an identified location mr chair yes i can answer that question ed williams alachua county parks walker park is uh it's not an acquisition we have already acquired it we've had it for a few years now it was bequeathed to us uh in honor of miss walker and so uh it's actually the jane walker park but it's unimproved at this point so the money that's in the capital budget is to for a and e and and uh construction okay well it says acquisition so we may want to make that edit on the improvement budget but it's just it's it's it's okay and then k we don't have a location identified we're still looking k is a target on our vision map as a part of the master plan but we have not acquired actual property yet we are actively looking in that area okay any other discussion any public discussion on motion i just back to the board any further discussion the question of the animal services this that's budgeted for next year these are going to be improvements at the facility or they include the 26 million that's the new complex that's the bar that's for the new building that's not for the preservation so oh i see i see okay i'm looking at the wrong i see what i'm saying so that's fine we we also um have our all of our preservation funds for our existing facilities are in the general fund they're not part of the five-year capital project plan so that's part of what uh travis has built out in the general fund regular budget okay great yeah that's i just wanted to make sure that there's money to maintain the facility until we get this thing in place and it makes it if it gets in place yeah it makes some improvements because we still know we have two or three years left so we're budgeting the next year expenditures and we're approving the five-year plan that can adjust i got you okay yeah i did it was on the it's actually on the facilities preservation projects i guess i'm just trying to sort of anticipate you know we're going to renovate this removing folks out of the civil courthouse that's estimated the move-in for the new civil courts estimated for 2028 at december 28th december 28th and and so then but december 28th you would start the renovation of the existing civil courthouse for our purposes so that wouldn't be until probably take a year i'm guessing that's our discussion next year mr i was going to say travis parker facility director i was going to say that's kind of dependent on which direction we go so like when we decide what we're going to do with the civil courthouse ideally we would already have a and e completed so that when we move into you know when civil moves out and goes to the new courthouse we would be ready to start renovating so we're already prepared with whatever our next move is i thought we'd already had that discussion of the people in this building moving into the new civil courthouse along with other administrative functions and government so mr chair um that is what the plan has been but this board has also asked us to meet with city staff and do a different review um to see if that's what we're still going to do so we've already the master plan yeah correct so we have already scheduled that was the original intent but we've been asked to take it a little further and we have preliminary um meetings i believe are already being thursday yeah are set with city staff so um we're already starting those discussions and that will come back at a later time to the board with the city and the county okay i just i guess i just see these things like larger you know scale costs associated with the civil courthouse like window glazing and stuff like that like i'm just like is that really necessary if we're in like two to three years we're going to start renovating that building like do we need to spend you know seven hundred and twenty five thousand dollars on window glazing for the civil courthouse when we're gonna we we could postpone that i mean we do have leaks obviously you know as if we were to have a hurricane um those are the places that we we see it you know so we've already started so the the plan for that was we have a program so we're you know going around the courthouse and replacing you know whether it's the east side west side whatever i think that's actually to finish it all up um so i mean we could roll that into the the renovation that is literally just the envelope and then i hope that we are not doing a ton of stuff on the exterior of that building when we renovate because when you're doing that though you're going to find things that's sure are we looking at the building across the street still the one yes ma'am are we still okay i i didn't know if we they're still looking at the possibility of the building across the street actually right that that will be brought to you at the beginning of september to exercise the option if we're still finishing due diligence and that's for the clerk i just didn't know if it was still on it is only one office it's not the entire building it's just an office space in that building okay my same question was the same question about the boiler and the compressor replacement in this building we have to survive till we get out of here that's all i want we're at that point okay thank you any other discussion on the motion no we are yeah we have public coverage okay all in favor say aye aye any opposed motion passes do you need any other direction before mary leaves i think the last thing i have is final direction on millage rate and advertising no we got one more point we need to make about the plan that you just approved but um so just just to be aware out of the 400 million dollars worth of money coming in for the five-year plan the commitment from this board to the general from the general fund is substantial people don't think that you're using your general fund money a certain way 158 million dollars of that 411 is coming from the general fund just for the facilities projects we just talked about and then lands is paying about 95 million and then the general fund's paying about 40 million dollars with the roads in that transfer every year so there is a substantial commitment from the general fund i think the public should be aware of that but this is not just money they've collected just for roads which are also taking their money and putting towards roads 198 million from the general fund 40 million for roads and 158 for capital projects so what does that mean that's in balance over five over five years okay and as a part of that i think that um the what you you talked about today the word is that a lot of misinformation is flying around and the manager tasked us pretty quickly to turn around some information and i think she has some information she'd like to explain about our ability to fund roads yeah so um tommy provided you all with a piece of paper yes a one sheet piece of paper the left column talks about our budget in general um the right column is what we always carve out for roads and when i say that so as you all are aware we have a lot of restricted funding sources so i know recently there was something about um 47 million budgeted for roads and a 984 million dollar budget what i wanted to show here was in numbers in our actual budget how what we have available to spend that is actually discretionary money um and so um if you look you know we have our total budget um the first thing that comes out of that um the first thing that comes out of that is internal transfers between funds which is non-spendable money and that's something that probably april and tommy can explain better put this up on the screen please because this is good 948 million down to seven um and then the self-insurance fund is um between the employees contributions and ours is uh almost 66 million our reserve budgets are 81 million and while um i understand that sounds sounds like a very large number what that really is is that is two months of operating for us to be able and not just us as a county but all of our funding all you know that all of the entities we appropriate that is two months worth of ability during a disaster or um you know tax dollars do not all come in on day one of the fiscal years so we have to be able to fund things until all of those funds are received throughout the year um and so that is just um responsible budgeting to have two months worth of operating available to us so then we get down to 750 million and i'm doing some very round numbers to run through it then we take out constitutional officers which we are obligated to fund so that is 179.5 million and that is simply their operating budgets that is not capital improvements to building that is their operating budgets that it costs to operate the sheriff supervisor property appraiser tax collector and the parts of the clerk that we fund um so then we get down um to 570 million out of those funds then we start taking off um restricted sources funds that we have no discretion but to spend in a specific way so over 90 million is statutory and contractual so what does that mean that's things like impact fees gas tax um those are things that we are limited in how we can spend it um building permit fees are very limited by state law and how we can spend it so 90 million dollars comes off of that um and then we have grants almost 29 million dollars worth of grants and those are limited to only the purpose for which the grant was received it is not discretionary money to use for services um hospital assessment pass through that's over 65 million that is not something that is it comes in and it goes out we have to account it in our in our revenue in our total budget um we have several pass through we just wanted to make sure that that one was because that's a big one right um and then our infrastructure surtax which is another highly restricted revenue source that is um almost 133 million that leaves us down to 253 million out of that budget in unrestricted sources then we have to take out other required state payments out of that money that is left so we have courthouse capital medical examiner state attorney court administration public defender guardian ad litem our medicaid state match is close to five million we fund department of juvenile justice the state juvenile justice department three and a half million uh the health department one point six um inmate medical 2.5 by the way that is not the inmate medical that is budgeted in the sheriff's budget that is the inmate medical that we are obligated to pay for people who are uh received medical prior to being booked into the jail right um and then debt service bond payments for you know roads or whatever we've borrowed for um that's 14 million so now we're down to 220 million of that we have fee-funded operations which we also cannot touch um and predominantly that's solid waste which is a business enterprise so that is 28 and a half million off of that now we are down to 191 million almost 192 million that is what we actually have to fund um everything else that we have to do for government so you can see some of the big ones here that come off of that um what we did on the right you'll see the reason why the numbers are higher for roads is because we're allowed to use some of these restricted funding sources that are up top on on the restricted sources so where we have 90 million in statutory and contractual 37.3 million of that can be used for roads so and we are right so so we do have those built out in here which is why the numbers are different all of that service correct but when you get down to the bottom and i don't think this has the percentage april i think it got cut off it's like it's 33 some percent of our of our oh okay it is there i didn't even know so what we actually spend on roads out of our discretionary money is over 100 million um and that is over 36 percent of our discretionary money um and so and when we say 100 million that you have to understand that um or the public needs to understand that money it's not just fill a pothole or pave a road um it includes daily maintenance it includes you know um improvements uh we may add a turn lane it includes um the repaving and the necessary so it's everything from soup to nuts and it's the operations of the department as well as the capital and everything that we invest so it's the highest percentage single percentage of our discretionary budget right so it's operation maintenance and capital yes and the discretionary budget is predominantly made up of property tax okay thank you that's really helpful yeah very yeah this is very helpful i wish we had this you gotta go yeah so we try no i want to hear this yeah as more with a lay person i am good with military and use no i think we should yes we'll make sure that this is we're not re-crimming so i'm just kidding i'm just okay and i and i will say we are verifying double double triple checking the exactness of each of these line items but they're pretty close and i say that because um they were still doing this last night when i messaged when i sent them an email at oh my god probably 5 30 last night to try to get this to you guys to make sure we had something this is really good yeah you can put it on our website we'll say it was a caveat that it may not be a hundred percent to the dollar accurate but it was pretty good this is a preview of what we're going to see from tommy at the budget at the budget yes it will be very similar upon the rest of the board to reflect where you're what level of control you really have on dollars and where you're directing them to what the manager um trying to get through it quickly um you know there's another 30 percent in public safety fire ems it's a big part of that so your priority obviously has always been public safety roads have been the highest priorities of this board um from that yes sir the last thing we would ask is is um we believe we have picked up all of the items that the board has mentioned uh we talked about the ftes we talked about some of the other things so everything the board has talked about during our budget discussions that they agreed upon that y'all agreed upon we've included in the budget the millage is set um unless you say otherwise today that's what we will be presenting um actually the conduit debt um we've been working with clerk's office to try to get that over to custodial council that hopefully that will be 65 million dollars less than the budget when it's presented so it'll be pulling that out of putting a custodial account we're working on that so i'm sure the stable report that we have a huge budget reduction right i'm sure they will um so that's where we are at so unless you know we can't vote on that day but i just need to hear any feedback if something's going to change between now and then all right commissioners any feedback for tommy no can i say something yeah please you say what i just want to i just i mean this this sheet that you gave us is like really really a great example of i just want to point out like we are spending 36 we just spent an entire meeting talking about roads basically like hours like an hour and a half two hours talking about roads we talk about it a lot and we spent a good deal of our budget on it and commissioner just often saying like you know we need to figure out how we support people's jobs how we bring it industry to this community how we increase the level of opportunity for people how and i'm always saying how do we address root causes we spend less than five percent of our budget on community support services housing and economic development less than five percent that is from my perspective a problem so i just want to put that out there because like those are the root causes those are the places where we're addressing the real challenges that we have to attracting economy here through housing and through economic development and supporting the people who are like struggling the most that are here that really need the support to lift themselves out of poverty and into that economic opportunity and so i know that it's a struggle and i know that it's hard to find the money but you know when i hear that like a million dollars is basically you know like no big if we can find it and then like i'm i'm like having to like argue over finding a hundred thousand dollars for our mobile outreach clinic or you know like pushing for these small amounts of money for these things i just want to this is just really really for me a transparent opportunity for us to make that point and say like we need to think about how we make more investments and economic development and community support services so that we can begin to lift people out of poverty we can begin to attract industry and keep our local businesses going here subsidizing rent for downtown so that we can revitalize downtown like what can we do to really like begin to move that needle at the root cause so i just i just i i get that roads are important and i hear people and when they say things like y'all are too busy thinking about people and pave our roads it really frustrates me because i'm like if we had real economic development here we would have more impact fees we would have more companies coming in we'd have more money to pave roads that way too so i just want to be cognizant of that and it just felt like i would i would i didn't want to miss the opportunity to point it out um and to that end the only other thing i want to say is i hope that we can have our mobile outreach clinic and our and our ob-gyn mobile clinic that have been doing that frontline healthcare work come and present to us sometime in the fall and talk to us once we you know are kind of out of the woods with this property tax initiative and think about the ways in which we can maybe support them you know help them a little bit more to make sure that we're providing that health care because we're falling off a cliff on roads that same cliff is coming with medicare medicaid snap benefits and affordable housing all those things were cut in that big beautiful bill and we're those things are coming and they're going to make major impacts to our community and we're going to see more hunger more homelessness and more challenges with being able to pay for child care and health care than we've ever seen in this country and it's coming soon to a theater near us so i just want us to be prepared for that as well thank you thank you all right thank you i just had a quick question too uh i think when heather was here the other day i was talking about raising um raising salaries or wages for some of the folks that you know at the animal services or now we're talking you know what ramon was saying you know that would really you know help them as well because i take popsicles out to animal services i'd take gatorade out there to them because they are also a big impact when you show up no they're they're doing important work too and i just you know heather had said you know that there would be some discussion about raises or money oh yeah it's a class and comp study it's coming at the end of the year i think you said oh with the okay so i thought she meant that we were going to be talking about it here but that's not something that it's coming i push yeah that's the classification study that i pushed for a few years ago yes um yes they are okay we got about another five-ish months to go okay on that you can come talk to us about public public comment you just make sure you show up don't you worry we'll let you know okay okay and mr mr chair if i just might add one other thing about this chart um so the um uh that the line of what's left of discretionary funds the 191 uh 192 million no basically the 192 million of unrestricted sources um that's where any reduction in revenue from property tax will come from this number here um actually the unrestricted sources so the 253 is where that will come off of and given that roads is the largest percentage of that that's what that's where the 80 to 90 million uh right so it so it would come off so that would be reflected in this um boc unrestricted sources that would go to this number right here so if you decrease that and then went through this thing exercise yeah you would decrease the 253 by 80 million in year two which is 39 in year one 80 million in year two and then go through the same dollar exercise to the bottom yes right yeah that that 191 turns into 111 a good news story for somebody i'm sure they're watching i hope so okay okay um thank you madam manager uh anything else coming no sir thank you all right we're going to go ahead and close that agenda item is there anyone here to speak on that agenda item okay we're going to close that open up for public comment anyone here to speak on public comments next up we got commission comment i see mr chesson has nothing mr wheeler i just this letter that we got uh regarding the boys and girls club i was glad somebody is yeah put that in your box and the key on that letter is there's a section about what was actually transferred so i looked at the tax force and the tax force was actually transferred was the 1.9 acres that's where the building is the other seven acres is the fields and apparently that wasn't transferred and that it seems like they can't so they yes i don't really know what's going on they have 20 days to respond to that letter they requested which is coming up so we'll see well i appreciate yeah um just the ask that we have the moc and ob dying clinic come and present to us in the fall that was one um so we can hear about the demands do you need a motion for that or are you planning to do that just do that in the fall no if you would like us to yeah just ask them to come yeah that'd be great and then i want to make the other is that um we got uh we've had a an email request several come through several times that i um i was remiss in asking about this before but we have a caregiver the caregivers festival in town it's it's a it's a event that supports people who are caregivers for gotta take care of the caregivers yeah exactly for ill like you know for those that are disabled for those that are you know um elderly it brings healthcare organization businesses and community partners together and it's a day dedicated to providing recognition resources support um to those folks and they're asking for um county sponsorship for this event and i don't know what we do with sponsorships and how we handle some sponsorship requests so i just wanted to bring it and refer it to staff to look at as a possible um to sponsor this event and then just to find out how we do that in general like when we have community organizations that ask for sponsors yeah we have conference grants we have um event grants we have all sorts of things that we use for that a process so if you forward yeah it's okay but i'm not talking about everybody around i'm talking about sponsorship where we get like where we do sponsorship like we can do very little sponsoring yeah that's right that's i say grants but it's it's the same thing it's essentially the same thing um so if you forward me that we'll look into theirs and then we'll also we can get an email out to you all just what's available and what we do and all that stuff okay i just noticed when i go to a lot of these events i always see the state gainsville sitting there and sponsorship on a lot of these events and i'm like but the county does all the community support services like why aren't we why are why isn't our logo here like where's ours so i maybe that's why it's a difference in how we provide the support as a sponsor versus well i think it's worth actually maybe taking this one more step it would be nice to see what we sponsored last year what we sponsored the year before and kind of what's the process for how that works so that we can maybe have a policy discussion about that i'm down with that like one of those pre-meeting meetings or something yeah like a meeting before yeah so um i mean these things come up that we this one's like one that came up that you know i think it's a newer but the cotton club had one the cotton club had one and we had you know we also have like i think that the the moc and the health care ones did one so michelle could you send us those well let me say this okay there those will likely change we have a new law coming into effect january one and we are currently reviewing everything that we fund and i cannot tell you that we will still be able to fund the list that you are interested well so i think we should have a discussion about it yeah so why don't we're currently reviewing those so that we're ready for january so as part of that that's gonna be a while could you email us kind of what we've sponsored in the past and then we'll have a discussion about that before the new law or so we know what's happening staff has just started reviewing all the departments have kind of dumped all those things into a um you know into a place where between legal and my side they are literally going through document by document so it sounds like we're doing it but we could what what i'm saying is we'll still get you the list just understand that that list may look a little bit different after january so it would be good for us to understand maybe in a in a one in our one-on-ones or something like what that difference is and what those organizations are what that funding impact is going to be so we could be sure to be communicating it to our partners in advance so that they're not like i think you know they can prepare and yes look for and we have that november uh well i would have to because it takes effect january one yeah um and so it it will um like i said they are they are just getting it just gotten um all of the information back from staff now they have to redo it review it and it's hundreds of documents and programs and services and let us know when you're ready to talk to us yeah but we can still get you the list of what we have okay um and and how we go about doing those programs okay well i think this event is in april so we've got some time okay um they can do whatever application process we need but i just i think it's a very worthwhile event and it brings together a lot of unique organizations and so i think it could be it would be worth us sponsoring if we have the opportunity it's a significant event too our highest demographic growing right now is seniors and we are seeing more than ever in our local community caregivers people moving back into um children's homes and so children moving into their homes so i think it's an important event so thank you for bringing that anything else all right all i have is so no meeting next thursday um there is a black lake opening up the preserve on friday morning um so i wanted to let you all know they asked me to say a few words on that i'm going to say some words saturday on the um the road dedication um are you going to go chuck i'm not going to be i i was rsbp but i wasn't able to i'm not going to be able to so the next time we will meet as a board that will be our second meeting in office and with that we are adjourned before 4 15.